M17x and DPC Latency

I rolled back my BIOS to A00 at one point and it did not remove this issue. HOWEVER, I will also say that when I first got my m17x, and installed Windows 7 (with BIOS A00 on it before upgrading to A01, and then A02) there was no issue.
However doing a BIOS downgrade does not solve the problem oddly enough.

 

i have a desktop with 9800gts stock speeds, i have green bars throughout as long as the GPU doesn't downclock

btw im really sorry for posting on here, again this was the only active forum i found adressing this wierd issue with audio stutter and lantencies.

@Crozone, it's exactly as you say, windows 7 seems to switch power modes more often due to aero, still aero doesn't address the issue.

i wish i could just set a performance level for all applications..
this is seriously the most wierd problem i've faced with computers

 

So just to make sure i am getting this right. If you downflash it just to A01 nothing was fixed, but if you started the very start A00 and didn't go up anymore it was fine. Thanks for doing it BTY i was going to but still so lethargic from the Turkey

On a side note Did you have a chance to check the DPC on the Original BIOS (A00)? If so was it the same or different?

If my probelms are fixed (Still trying lots of music for snaps and pops) Do you think i do just back up my Music and do a fresh install with A00 Bios? But if they are fixed just stay with the A02 one?

So far so good, Max latency maxed out at 8825 for a split sec, average is around 4,000 or so. Still high as hell. Last time though it maxed at 80,000 LOL then average was 20,000 or so. Getting closer.

 

Guys,sorry bit of a curveball here, but Im investigating latency and DPC spikes with Kobalt to try and see if we can find some resolution.

Something I discovered on my M980NU is that disabling either one of the GTX280m in device manager, whilst the driver is in SLI mode, which forces the machine to use a basic VGA driver, fixes the latency spikes I get, completely, I wonder whether any of you have tried this (rather than drivers or the like), turning SLI on and off doesnt make a difference, but this did.
Please note the additional setting mentioned, Prefer Maximum Performance is under the Global 3d Settings tab as a setting for Power Management Mode.

Any of you care to try it out and see if it makes any difference, as this might help show if its some fundamental Nvidia driver issue or a chipset dual card handling issue, as both our machines utilise the MCP79(730i) chipset.

To further clarify what I mean for testing:
SLI Enabled, Prefer Maximum Performance - DPC latency spikes
SLI Enabled, Prefer Maximum Performance, one GTX280m disabled in device manager - NO LATENCY SPIKES
SLI Disabled, Prefer Maximum Performance - DPC latency spikes
SLI Disabled, Prefer Maximum Performance, unused GTX280m disabled in device manager - DPC Latency Spikes

 

Tried your method. Didn't work for me

 

Didn't work for me either. Though i did notice a HUGE spikes while messing around with Nvidias drivers/Control pannel.

 

Sadly, I didn't get to check the DPC latency on it prior to flashing my BIOS to A01 the first time I had it, I only ever realized the problem when it began to have the latency spikes/audio stuttering.
Without the audio stuttering there wasn't a reason for me to check it

But yeah, for others that read this, the short and simple way of saying what I did was...

M17X on day of Arrival (BIOS A00) no stuttering -> Flash to A01 stuttering began -> Flash to A02 still stuttering -> Downgrade to A00 still has stuttering.

All of that had Windows 7 on it when I was using it. I don't know why downgrading wouldn't fix it, if the BIOS flash is what caused it. But I'm not a hardware techy.

 

did you flash to BIOS 00 and then reinstall everything? That's the only real way you can tell that it worked right...

 

Yep, flashed back to BIOS A00 and then formatted my HDD and did a clean install of Win7

 

Hmmm, seems our systems have different issues then (you have a slightly different motherboard, as your board/BIOS exposes the 9 series integrated GPU, whereas the M980NU doesn't).

Just to check, you did disable one of the GTX280ms while you were in SLI enabled mode? When the driver is in SLI mode, and you disable one GTX280m via device manager, for me, Win7 was flicking around, seemed to settle for 'generic vga driver' - as in the display manager listed Laptop Display On...blank, and completely stopped using Nvidia display drivers for me (even the control panel went from desktop right click menu).
Once that happened, my latency spikes completely dissapear.

Fun troubleshooting these issues, eh?

 

yes, I did what you suggested and now my screen is flickering like mad. Haven't restarted it yet.

I honestly think the issues are in our motherboards - we have nVidia chipsets vs. Intel chipsets; perhaps that's the root of the issue.

 

Possibly, but Kobalt are speaking to Nvidia and Clevo over the issues we're experiencing with the Kobalt machines (as they've replicated it), to try and get them worked out, so if I get any beta drivers aimed at helping us out, I'll forward them for you lot to try, incase they help.

I think its either the way the chipset handles SLI (with the M17x,it may also be firewire chip etc), or the chipset/GPU drivers, but nothing certain yet.

 

I'm about to join the ranks of EX-Alienware owners. This issue has been "in the works" for far too long now, and dellienware doesn't really seem to care much about it. They could, at the very least, give us an update - instead of telling us "we are aware of this issue and we are currently working on a solution"

We should all be compensated for the time we've spent with busted $5,000 "all-powerful" laptops......

I intend to plaster this issue all over every forum and blog site that I can find. Less dell customers = happier world <_<

 

This is Dell's biggest money making time of the year. The last thing they are going to do is spend man hours trying to fix this problem when they could use them to sell more systems. I see countless people coming into these forums, seeing the endless issues we're having and despite that are still going forward and spending top dollar on these systems. If I was Dell this is the last thing I would be concerned with right now.

To be honest I think we won't see a darn thing from Dell any time soon.

Because mine was a replacement for my M1730 I might just opt to give it some more time then just sell this laptop and go back to a Thinkpad for my daily mobile needs and just game on my desktop. This has been my first venture into gaming laptops and between my M1730 and this problem ridden Failenware I'll never buy another gaming laptop again.

I'm so sick of dancing around everything to get it to do basic things properly.

 

here comes my question. if its a hardware issue can it really be fixed with a new bios or driver or dell will send us a technician home to replace the faulty part?

 

I think if people are reading this but still want to go forward with their purchase, they should now Ati cards do seem to make a difference. While I still have latency I only get stutters during playback of blu Ray quality mkv files.

Games run stutter free and very smooth since this is the primary purpose of the machine I am happy.

Dell has said they are coming out with two fixes and will let us know this week. They are not ignoring this.

 

Its not a hardware issue, because it can be almost eliminated in Vista with the right set of drivers. But as far as i saw, its always there in Win7. I'm sure they can fix this with software updates.

Whats worrying me is that Dell/AW KNEW about this issue(seriously anyone who installs Win7 will notice this.....) but they went ahead and included Win7 as default OS and they did not seem to care until we screamed about the issue.

I hope for those who have not contacted the media about this issue, please do.

 

+1. I'm also stuck with the M17x for better or for worse - which is precisely why I haven't upgraded it at all, and have no plans to upgrade it. SSD, RAM, QX9300 plans are all sitting idly by. On the bright side, I'm saving money

 

There are several users on this forum who are running NVidia cards without stutter including myself (Win 7 Ult 64), and there are those with ATI cards who have the stutter, so it's not as simply as just choosing ATI cards.

I don't think either can be discounted (hardware or software). There are too many variables (heat, driver stability, power management etc...) for us to rule anything out.

The biggest fear I have is that the fix from Dell will be a compromise, and not a true solution. i.e. one of the safeguards will be disabled. i.e. if they trace the source to the power management on the GPUs they'll disable it or make it allot less effective to 'hide' the issue.

Look what Dell (and several other manufacturers) did with the G82/84 substrait issue. They simply increased the fan speeds to keep the chip cooler so the GPUs didn't fail as quickly. Brush ---> Carpet ---> Fixed .

 

Not true - I don't have any issues with Windows 7 and happily game on mine and many other probably don't either. I've certainly had my share of issues, but they've been fixed over time with newer drivers.

 

The only issue I have had with Windows 7 on my M17x was an odd issue with my Microsoft Keyboard (constantly caused windows management instrumentation to poll for USB devices). Using a different (Logitech) keyboard now with no issues.

Never had an issue with lag spikes or stutter, games run flawlessly, no DPC spikes like others are getting and only get the <200 to <2k hops (i.e. green and yellow bars).

 

No. Is just that this flat out does not affect a lot of people

 

Might want to do some more reading then, I for one have been posting that I have no such issue long before the Engadget news item.

Here's mine from just after my Windows 7 install...

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?p=5500128#post5500128

 

Alright guys stop the bickering, if you want PM each other but keep the conversation relevant on the boards please.

As for the stuttering issue, I was one of the individuals who had the M1730 replaced with the M17x, win 7 on arrival - check, sound stuttering - check, random freezes during install, playing games, surfing the net - check, headache in a hand-basket? - check, solutions - none so far

 

I know 2 other guys friend of mine who got different configuration but we are all suffering from the same issue with the latency. Some people have it worse than others. Its not the same on all systems. But it does exist on all system. This only occurs badly on Win7. So stop kidding your self.

 

And what are the people who ARE having no problem to do? Keep quiet so people like you can falsely believe that everyone who owns these machines is having these issues?

I for one do believe there are issues with this laptop. For one I want the general DPC latency issues fixed (i.e. the <200 to < 2000 / 4000 hops). More stable and more current Windows 7 drivers (espeacially GPU), command center and OSD. I would also like to see a resolution to the lag spike / stutter issues others are getting (even though it doesn't effect me... yet).

But what is the point of attacking forum members? Yeesh, in reverse logic I could accuse you of working for Clevo in trying to discredit Dell, lol... how's that for a stretch in logic

 

I'm not trying to atack any forum member.
I know I did ask if one member was an employee.

It was tongue in Cheek! I do apologise.

However I do think what i have suggested is a real possibility.

If Dell are not using counter measures I would be shocked, and i cant think of anything that would be so easy for them to acheive than to encourage a few people to post more positive comments or say that they are not effected.

People should read the forum with an open mind and reach their own conclustions to the depth of this problem.

I personaly think that this effects all M17x machines to some extent. their are some extremely clever and persistent memebers on this forum who have to their best abilities tried everything to fix this.

My personal experiance backs this up.

I have also called for a post with a poll to ask howmany members are effected, i just dont know how to set this up.

 

Photoscubaman you really need to stop attacking forum members for saying they aren't having a problem. News flash: I've got no issues either in windows 7 related to stuttering during games.

and by the way, try to read more. Dell has posted on their blog (direct2dell) that they've found 2 root causes and will update us this coming week.

So you can run around screaming like a chicken with his head cut off or just wait for them to come back to us (which they're doing)

 

Ok people, please get back to the subject at hand and stop the back and forth.

Some posts have been removed to facilitate this.

 

As Kamin already mentioned, this back and forth stops now. Dell does not 'own' this forum nor do they control it. Some people have issues while others do not.

Dell has already indicated they are looking into the issue as it relates to the M17x. You can either give them a chance to present their findings or you wont. The choice is yours.

Bottom line, while debating and discussion is fine, we will not tolerate rudeness, insulting posts, personal attacks or purposeless inflammatory posts.

 

So this issue still is not resovled? Hopefully I don't have a problem when my M17X gets here, but I thought the issue was caused with the CPU voltage and a simple undervolting of it in BIOS helped the problem. I've been reading threads all day at work, so some of them may be blending together and I may be wrong.

 

It's not yet resolved but Dell seems to have the issue dissected by it's engineering team. They are supposed to give us an update sometime this week with possibly an ETA for a fix on the way. You can always return your machine if you find stuttering and Dell doesn't resolve it to your satisfaction so don't worry

Good news is that I have DPC latency and while I'd be grateful to have that resolved I've yet to experience any stuttering in games. Actually this thing has handled every game I've played very well so far. There was a time when I was experiencing crackles and pops and I rebooted my machine, it dissapeared.

It's really strange but one thing is for sure the Windows 7 drivers are NOT mature. I am hoping for a new BIOS as well as updated drivers

 

I can't wait for a fix... I've only noticed the problem when playing audio, in game it is fine...

Edit: We could always launch class action against Dell... if they don't get it sorted

 

Me neither. I only get stuttering once in a while in crysis but still, I didn't pay all this money to have a nice looking laptop that has all kinds of problems. My patience is running low and if they don't come with a fix, this will be my last Dell/Alienware for a long long time. Might even check with my credit card company what I can do since I'm past the first 21 days.

Can't even put W7 on it because it makes matters worse...I'm pissed.

 

Games are perfect for me but I can't use it for any of my guitar stuff. I run Guitar Rig 4 and have to use my $600 Sony VAIO instead of my $3K Alienware They need to get this sorted out soon. I may have to buy another laptop since my wife has taken my Sony Hostage.

 

Dell released a new BIOS for the Studio 1737. All it did was decrease the frequency of the red spikes while increasing the severity of the red spikes.

With that knowledge, I decided to go back to Vista. I re-enabled RAID 0 (having RAID off did help reduce audio crackles/stutter). So far so good. Still in the re-installing stage though.

 

this isn't encouraging, has anyone tried an ExpressCard sound card ?

if it doesnt have stuttering, im buying one

 

New update from dell regarding BIOS update!!

Update, 12/2: Some good news! The engineering team has successfully recreated the problem and identified several causes. One root cause has been identified and can be addressed by a BIOS revision, and an updated BIOS is now being validated. The engineering team is hopeful that the other root causes will also be resolved via a BIOS change, and are working to confirm this so a full BIOS update can be implemented.

http://en.community.dell.com/blogs/direct2dell/archive/2009/11/18/dell-dpc-latency-and-you.aspx

 

Very good news.

+1 for the find.

 

Excellent! My M17x is boarding the mothership to be beamed down to me as we speak! I can't win to get it yet I'm also nervous that I will be one of the many plagued with this problem. Was hoping it was resolved before it arrived.

 

Wonderfull.

 

Thank god.

 

so a bios issue. i hope this is true but i am not without doubts for this. thus it is not clear if the other issues could be implemented in the bios or not. lets see

 

always open to a new Bios! (especially one that actually fixes stuff)

 

Good time to download a copy of the current version just in case.

 

I got A00 A01 and A02 on my disk if anyone will need them

I never delete drivers and stuff I download, I just archive them all

 

you can always find older versions of drivers and bios too of course from dell website

for example this is for the bios

http://support.dell.com/support/dow...d=-1&libid=1&impid=-1&osl=en&vercnt=3&os=W764

 

does that mean no sli stutter lag now?

 

thats funny, I'm on windows server 2003 right now and been playing music for almost an hour, i havent heard a single "pop" or stutter. Windows 7 on the other hand..


however the latency checker thing looks the same

think i might just stick to this even when the new bios comes out

 

Keep the news coming! I have been following this thread for updates every day.