*OFFICIAL* Alienware M11x Owners Lounge - Part 2

Is that height of 1.29 inches when the laptop screen is closed or open?

 

That would be Closed i believe...

 

Can a moderator delete this question please?

 

Is the width of 11.25" when the laptop is closed or open?

 

can i order the m11x through best buy?

 

I'll try to have a go at what Egg is trying to get at...and if anyone feels I've put some inaccurate information in this, please chime in. There's a few stats that you want to look at with SSDs. The max read/write speed is one of them, but it's not as important as you'd think. It works well if your copying files into multiple directories on your machine, but you'll rarely need to push that much in a real world situation. If you're getting data, it's either over ethernet (which on this machine would cap out at about 12MB/s if this is really 10/100. You can probably pull 40-50MB reliably over gigabit provided where you're getting the data from can push that fast) or an external cd drive or usb drive. You end up getting limited by the media you're copying from. This is mainly touted by manufacturers because it's a single number that you can quickly use to compare one drive to another.

In my opinion I believe that the three main stats you want to look at is seek time, I/O operations per second, and 4k reads/writes. Seek time relates to how quickly the drive can start to access any file on the drive. Hard drives are typically somewhere in the 12ms range, while good SSDs are around .1ms.

I/O operations is how many writes/reads per sector that the drive can do in one second. When OCZ was testing the Vertex they were going for high read/write. They stated that 4 I/O per second was sufficient for a windows machine. However, if you've ever seen or used a first gen jmicron SSD you know this isn't true. They're pretty much unusable because their I/Os are rated in the single digit range. Intel is currently king in this area, but at some point you start getting diminishing returns.

4k read/writes is the last major stat to look at. This is because windows writes and reads to a lot of small files during it's normal operation. (for instance creating a new file requires somewhere around 12 other files to be modified) You want this to be relatively quick because it will end up being the majority of what your computer does. It's also important because it gives you an idea of what the drive might perform like on a fragmented hard drive and doing modifications of files.

Unfortunately my knowledge is lacking a bit, so I'm not sure how many I/Os per second you need on an average computer before it's not noticeable. I currently use OCZ Vertex drives and they get somewhere around 2000. I've seen benchmarks on the Intel X25-Ms from anywhere to 3000 to 5000. I know I'd notice the different in a high use server application, but I have a feeling I wouldn't notice in my laptop.

Looking at the Toms Hardware review here we can take a look at their benchmarks of various SSDs. I'll compare the X25-M and the Samsung that dell is currently selling since the OCZ Vertex is not listed.

I/O Reads: Both the X25-M and the Samsung have .1ms read times.
I/O Writes: the X25-M has .1ms while the samsung has .2ms. This to be isn't a big enough difference to matter.

I/O operations per second: X25-M is listed at 3385 for their database benchmark pattern. It also has a wopping 111444.8 for their web server benchmark pattern. The Samsung has 289.7 and 4675 respectively. Is this too low for use in this laptop? I don't know enough to answer that.

Unfortunately it doesn't seem that they benchmarked 4k read/writes. legitreviews has a crystaldiskmark 2.2 benchmark of the intel drive here. This shows 4k writes of the X25-M at around 57MB/s. In this thread someone was nice enough to post crystaldiskmarks on the 128gb version of the Samsung PB22-J. It ends up coming up to a max of 7MB/s in the 4k writes.

And if battery life is your concern, Tom's hardware shows that the samsung drive consumes 1 watt less while at load. They both have the same power usage of .1watts at idle.

In the end, with either drive I feel you'll see a large gain compared to using a regular 7200rpm hard drive. Yes, there are better drives out there and you will probably notice the difference. However, whether it's enough to justify the price increase and/or the size decrease is up to you.

Hope this helps somebody.

 

I'm not sure if I missed it from some of your previous posts, but can you give us reasons why you feel the samsung is worse? Have you used the Samsung PB22-J in a system before? Where do you feel that it's lacking?

 

Do you guys know if I want to change my order's color from the black's to the silver one, what Dell's number I should give a try?
Oh btw, I don't want to cancel order and reorder coz all coupons are expired x_x

 

ummm why??

 

Ummm... wow. Just think about your question. What do you think the 1.29" is referring to?

It would want to be a pretty small screen if the height of the laptop is 1.29" with the screen open.

 

dang it guys..I sold my laptop to get the m11x but won't have enough money til next friday...so I'm laptop-less on my brother's computer right now but I hate to take over it...But instead of buying the m11x next week I'm planning to get a LED-TV instead hahaha

 

Darkhan is right. Since the CPU is 1.3ghz and the front bus speed is 800. The front bus speed is quad pumped so its really 200. You divide 1300 by 200, getting a CPU multiplier of 6.5. When you enable the overclock, it increases the front bus speed to 266. 266 x 6.5 = 1729.

 

no i meant when the screen is open you measure the actual base of the machine (the thickness) without the screen

 

Sleeves

• Belkin Neoprene Notebook Sleeve for 14-Inch Laptop ($23.01)
• Case Logic XNST-13 13.3-Inch Reversible Neoprene Laptop Sleeve ($23.60) (another color)
• Built NY Cargo E-CLS-BLK 12-13" Laptop Sleeve (26.48) (looks the coolest but might not fit thickness-wise) (another color)
• Belkin F8N101-BR-DL 12.1-Inch Sleeve for Netbooks ($11.95) (the dimensions on this seem perfect) (another color)
• Mobile Edge Sumo 12" Black Nylon Laptop Sleeve ($18.15) (might be snug)
• Kroo Retro Glove Sleeve for Netbook up to 12-Inch ($15.99) (dimensions are good)
• Microsoft 11" Neoprene Laptop Sleeve ($14.99) (maybe?)
• Mobile Edge Ultraportable Briefcase for 8.9-Inch to 13-Inch Netbook Computers ($35.66)
• Speck Pinstripe Messenger Sleeve ($31.63) (other colors available)

Messenger Bags

• Belkin 10-Inch - 12-Inch Notebook Messenger Bag ($32.98)
• Lowepro Messenger Factor M Computer Bag--Fits Most 14-Inch Laptops ($14.95)
• Caselogic UCS-13 13-Inch Felt Messenger Bag with Laptop Storage ($29.99)
• Microsoft Laptop Messenger Bag--Edge ($36.07) (fits 17"; has dividers for smaller laptops)
• Mobile Edge Ultra Portable Messenger Bag for 8.9-Inch to 13-Inch Netbook Computers ($35.66)
• Mobile Edge Mini Messenger Bag Black/Red great for Netbooks ($35.51)
• Be.ez 100673 LA besace 13 Addict Wasabi Messenger Bag for Macbook 13.3 ($69.99)
• Case Logic XNTM-4 Messenger eSling ($36.79) (you'll just look a little stupid )
• Speck Pinstripe Messenger Bag ($51.96) (other colors available)
• Tarif 11.6" (price unknown) (outside US)
• Crumpler Mood Smuggler M (£59.00) (outside US)

Backpacks

• CaseCrown Convertible Backpack/Messenger Bag with Multi Pockets ($32.21) (converts into a messenger bag)
• Case Logic 15.4 Backpack ($24.63) (other colors)
• Caselogic SNBP-17 17-Inch Canvas Lifestyle Backpack ($29.99) (I have a thing for green )
• Belkin Slim Backpack ($35.10) (other color options)
• SwissGear SA1015 Black Backpack with Titanium Accents ($34.99)
• SwissGear Computer Backpack ($34.99) (excellent deal)
• Lowepro Backpack Factor Laptop Bag ($19.95) (great deal)
• MAXXUM from SwissGear by Wenger Computer Backpack ($49.00) (also available in blue)
• Speck Products AftPack Notebook Backpack ($56.69) (for the hipster in you) (also in brown and gray)

 

Don't be like that. A question is a question no matter what or how obvious it might be to you. A forum is for asking questons and interacting while learning new new things etc like an unstructured class. Don't be rude about it. I won't say anymore about it.

 

They will have to delete your previous order and re-enter it as silver. More than likely, they will not honor your coupons.

 

their performance isnt up to snuff with the competition, and with the price they charge it's murder. They arent offered at a good price compared with a platter drive. They are charging $570 for the upgrade over the default, so instead you could spend $300 for an intel G1 or an ocz vertex, $400 for an intel G2. An intel G1 doesnt have TRIM but what mostly everyone doesnt realize is that at its worst its 20 times faster at 4k randoms than the samsung.

Let me say that again, its more than 20 times faster after you write enough extraneous files to the drive that the 4k random performance gets down to more than 20 mb/s.

The only thing the samsung has on the intel is sequential writes. If you need that get an OCZ. If you really need that plus the extra storage, fine then get a samsung and sacrifice everything other than sequential writes about an SSD that improves upon platter drives.

I'm not arguing that it doesnt have any improvements over platter drives, but thats not everything. Low power, low noise, ability to chuck your laptop around the room without harming your data, sure its got that.

The fact of the matter is there are drives out there that do what the samsung does and also have exceptional 4k random performance, and it's been proven that this is the most common operation on hard drives during normal use of an OS like windows. The fact that dell charges as much as they do for a much worse representation of an SSD than an intel or indilinx is unbelievable, it's also unbelievable how many people think its a good deal!

 

Thanks for the backup. But the thing is my question made perfect sense. There is a maximum height and a minimum height. The maximum is with the screen closed and the minimum is with it open (or the height of just the base of the laptop, without the screen's thickness considered).

 

it is a good deal on the same drive compared to buying it yourself (around $700)

Any drive at the 256gb size will cost ALOT

The prices for the Intel and OCZ drives you quote are 128gb unless I am mistaken - this Samsung is a 256gb

 

soleblaze, thanks for supporting me with all the info. I forgot to mention how the seek times for intels are 5 times faster than samsung.

The reasons the intel is better than samsung are also the hardest reasons to explain and prove the performance of. As soon as you realize how much faster a system is on an intel you realize how big of a deal it is that dell overcharges the way they do.

 

Great job on that list! I'm looking at the Kroo sleeve on Amazon.

Was the one in the Hardware Heaven review Silver or Black?

 

Dude you rock..thanks.

 

I knew what you were getting at. I just don't appreciate know it all atitudes. Anyway, the height is the max height.

 

It was silver. And thanks XD I tried to match up the dimensions the best I could but that 1.29" thickness made things a little bit tougher. But I am also thinking about getting the Kroo... it seems really nice.

No you rock!

I think I might combine the Kroo with a messenger bag... some of those on Amazon looked really nice.

 

The intel is a 160gb. and yes the ocz are 120gb. If storage is your concern, well you're right, for now the samsung has that advantage. If that's your primary concern, I understand.

It's still not worth it in my opinion, you get way more mileage from those 160gb than you'd ever get from 256gb. And for $270 less! And, if you're getting the m11x anyway, you get a free 160gb platter just for doing it that way. Buy a $20 usb-powered enclosure and you get the best of both worlds.

There are several stats where the samsung is just like a platter drive! I guess I have a lot more things I'd like to spend $500 on than to help a company justify continuing to produce a comparatively crappy product.

 

Don't get me wrong, I made my SSD choice. I have an X128 in my M17x right now instead of a P128 or P256 haha (corsair drives)

 

I think I've settled on the Kroo Retro and the Lowepro Messenger, totaling $31.23 which nets me free super saver shipping. I'm loving that Lowepro bag for all my handhelds and game controllers.

 

I'm going for this backpack:
CaseCrown 11.6 Backpack

It's small, fits everything i want and its convertible.
Backpack for use with my motorcycle, and messenger and going to meetings.

 

I don't like the vertical messenger bags but I do like how it looks. Added to the list.

 

Perhaps already answered, but search showed nuttin'.

Why did Alienware not just clock the CPU to 1.73ghz instead of making it a bios adjustment? ASUS has proven the SU7300 is fine at 1.73ghz and the impact to the battery and heat is negligible. Seems counter-intuitive to have the 335m with a stock 1.3ghz speed. Ironic that Asus clocks it up, but Alienware does not. Strange.

 

Too much good stuff. You would DESTROY every computer maker's business model, since people would keep their current devices longer

 

This seems a little biased. Aren't all SSD's pretty much murder for their cost. Then you link a 160GB drive that's $400? In terms of SSD jumping to another 96GB for $170 is not outrageous in the least bit, especially when we're talking about one drive bay with 256GB of space that still destroys platter based drives. If you do the math it's $2.5 per gig for the Intel (160GB) and $2.23 per gig for the Samsung up from the base model. How is that outrageous?!?!?!

And the competition you speak of apparently to you only consists of two other drives. The samsung drive seems to outdo many other SSDs out there. On top of talkin about how the Samsung drive is bad, you recommend G1 w/o TRIM? Are you going to explain about how TRIM is pretty important? Instead of just talking about how Samsung doesn't perform up to what you feel is a better drive. For example, some may say these Samsung ones are better b/c they support TRIM than the G1's.

Anyway, in my opinion, the Samsung SSD offered here is a good option, especially for myself, b/c 160GB is not big enough for me to feel comfortable with. Plus I'm paying a lot less than $400 for this SSD than to get an Intel for smaller storage. Honestly if I price my M11x build w/o HDD at $800, my SSD comes out to $250 before taxes. No brainer =D

Another article that seems to praise this drive:
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/03/17/review_storage_ssd_samsung_mmd0e56g5/

I am by no means a expert tech, more like an enthusiast consumer and really, I can't see much wrong going the upgrade route via Dell.

 

I'm more surprised that Alienware hasn't advertised this. The ability to crank up the processor should be plastered all over the site.

 

I am just wondering how the M11x will run games such as Fallout 3 and Bioshock 1 and 2?

 

The thing is, you can't trust the average review. These people don't do the important tests, or gloss over the importance of the tests even when they see how bad they can be.

Your argument about the added storage space for the samsung is flawed. I don't mean to sound like a snob, but do you have any idea just how much better the intels are than the samsungs at 4k r/w and seek time? Let me explain it in a way that should also illustrate how TRIM actually isnt as important as you think...

The entire point of using TRIM is to improve the performance of the drive after being used. In fact, it specifically improves the 4k r/w performance which is why a samsung desperately needs the TRIM support: because it starts brand new at 4.4 MB/s. Now you could argue that this is ok but for comparison, the velociraptor, the fastest consumer-grade platter drive gets 1.5 MB/s both new and used at 4k r/w performance. So yeah, it's better.

Without TRIM (I'm assuming you're right about samsung having TRIM now even though I'm skeptical), the samsung's get about 1.1 MB/s after being used and thus having no free cells to write to, this is because the drive has to erase a whole block before writing a new bit of data because of the way the flash is laid out. So yeah, TRIM being in a samsung will be great for the drive. Now when talking about performance for the cost you pay, you're paying that $570 for the samsung to get 4x the performance of random r/w as well as the other globally accepted benefits of flash drives.

I hope this finally makes my point clear, so please pay attention. The intel drive, as much as you scoffed at the idea of it not needing TRIM, gets 40 MB/s random r/w brand new. That's almost ten times the performance of the samsung before TRIM is arguably a factor. The G2 in comparison, due to more aggressive tactics for some reason actually starts at 36.1 MB/s. That's right, the G1 is faster than the G2.

OK, so it's faster brand new but TRIM matters, right? Wrong. The G1 drives, at THEIR WORST, get 26.3 MB/s. Compared to the samsung, that's still 26 times faster than a samsung if it doesn't have TRIM and even if it does, it's more than 6 times faster.

Make your own decisions based on these facts. I can't tell anyone what to do, it's their money. These figures are what I've labored hard, over and over in this thread to explain, and people don't seem to still get it. The only two things I'll admit samsungs have over intels is extremely large file copies (reduces the life of the drive dramatically if you do this often) and they happen to have the best price/GB ratio right now when you're buying a new computer because of their relationship with OEMS. In my opinion, that is meaningless when the drive is fatally flawed in the most important area.

Not only has intel produced the best SSD to date that isn't SLC and priced for the enterprise sector, but they released a new version of their drive that they dramatically reduced prices on to get SSDs to new levels of affordability. If ANYONE deserves the money for an SSD, it's them.

P.S.: I said the intel G1s cost $300 which is true if you know where to look and are patient. The G2s are available for $100 more in many places, and gets you unequivocally, absolutely the best performance for your consumer dollar.

 

Not a big deal really, if you can simply O/C it in the BIOS. But yeah, I am surprised that they don't ship it with it overclocked to start. What would make more sense is to have a software "power save" mode and "performance" mode. Power save = Intel graphics & 1.3GHz CPU, Performance = nVidia graphics & 1.73GHz CPU.

 

There must be some reason, I personally enjoy the ability even if it may run best if overclocked at all times, also provides a good starting point for bios hacks for stronger overclocks so don't you go convincing them to take out that option!

A man can dream....a man can dream. I know they can produce a laptop like that, but you're right, they have no monetary incentive to build such a perfect device.

 

i will order mine on the 17th (need the funds to set in first )
once i get mine its straight to the overclocking (CPU and GPU )

 

now i have to thnk you 2 million

 

I'm wondering what kind of battery life hit you get from overclocking, if any. There's two reasons I can see them not wanting to turn it on by default. One is that it hurts the battery life, which is one of the big bullet points for them. Battery life is the big thing right now and if you're using a ULV or atom processor than you really want to try to have good battery life to compete. The other is that it's not stable. I can't see this being the reason as Asus hasn't had issues overclocking it.

 

I'm sure stability isn't an issue. But battery life may be as you said to compete. EVen if it only cuts it by 20 or 30 minutes, it's still a degredation. I'm just glad the give you a quick and simple way to do it.

 

The Samsung SSDs may not be as lightspeed fast as the Intels, but they are STILL much faster as a boot drive than any traditional HDD. Access times are what are most critical on a boot drive, moreso than read/write rates.

I have an Intel 80GB X25-M Gen 1 as a boot drive in a Vaio TZ, and a pair of the same drives in RAID 0 for my desktop. I also have Samsung 64GB SLC SSDs as boot drives in my media PC and my work desktop. These particular drives:

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?in..._mmc=CJ-_-2617611-_-3640576-_-Geeks.com_Gifts

In March of 2009, they had them for $179, and I stocked up on 3 of them. In retrospect I should have bought more of them. 100MB read/80MB write.

I have one left over, and I plan to drop it into the M11x and see how it performs before I spend extra bux on a newer high-capacity SSD. Based on my experiences thus far, I believe that this particular Samsung SLC SSD will be just fine in the M11x.

The only downside is limited capacity.

 

I'll have to kind of agree with Egg.. Reading this review makes me feel like they stuck it in a computer, ran a handful of benchmarks, timed the bootup, and called it a day. I don't think it focuses on the main points that make an SSD worth using.

That said, I don't think that the samsung is the worst drive to get. The 256GB is too steep in price for me, but I'd be tempted to go for a 128GB if that was available. The Intel X25-M G2 is a much better drive, but I'm unsure if I'd need or notice that much better drive. Of course at the same time, the low 4k writes do concern me. I use an OCZ Vertex right now, which has garbage collection on it. (I don't use Windows much, so I don't use the TRIM version. There's two firmwares for the vertex, one that automatically does a kind of trim function and the other which supports trim) The Vertex runs at about 15MB/s at 4k. Works great for me. I don't have any of the issues I did with hard drives due to memory swapping and such. If I sound confusing, it's because I'm confused myself on which is the best choice for me. Hands down the best drive is the X25-M G2. If you can deal with having only 80GB then I'd go for that. If you need the space 256GB offers go with that. If 160GB works for you, than the X25-M G2 160GB might be an option. If you've never used a SSD before you will be happy with the Samsung. However, if you don't need all that space then it might be better to go for an Intel X25-M or OCZ Vertex/Agility.

Right now I'm leaning towards getting a 80GB X25-M G2 for this machine and carrying a separate drive with me to house files I won't use every day on this machine, but will come in handy.

 

I think the TactX is an AlienFX zone too rite? BTW, how many reps did you have to go through to get your RM200 discount?

 

They don't have to. Alienware's are sold to people who would OC the darn thing regardless of whether it's allowed or not and its a Westerner thing to like surprises (Cue Eggsie's hysteria after he found out). As for ASUS, its a selling point cause I think its a Asian thing to plaster every good thing up regardless, no surprises and stuff. Don't need to scare the customer after they buy the thing.

 

Well, it doesn't make sense to me. That's not what the maximum and minimum height refers to either. The max. and min. heights are used to referred to "tapered" notebooks (i.e. notebooks that are thinner at one end than they are at the other). As there is no deviation in height of the M11x, there is no max. or min. thickness.

Even if the minimum thickness did refer to the base of the laptop, I can't see any logical reason why you'd want to know that information.

Well, while you might see my response as "know it all", I see it as common sense. So let's agree to disagree on this one.

 

I agree! 10char

 

Oooohhh... Darky agrees. Means that I am right on one point at least. Wheeeee! Can I work at Dell now? ROFL

 

No prob, hope it comes in handy.

 

See I didn't know that. Makes sense, max and min heights for tapered notebooks. If the minimum height did refer to the base, sure you don't really need that info but it does make sense if it were that way. But that is not what you originally criticized me about. You thought I was talking from the base to the screen (while it is open) which is why you said the screen would be abnormally small. Anyways..I think we took this further than it needed to go, but I did learn something new so thats always good.