Any recent switchers regret their decision?

What's livable for you, may not be livable for me. The down time involved with getting a replacement makes this an inviable solution.

 

Well that's true. In the end, it comes down to individual preference and patience.

I'd rather be patient and bear with the hassle to get a machine I truly want, than to compromise on my wants and get something else that may come faster and with less hassle (but that may also suffer from some defect as well, who knows?). But then, I have the luxury of time and other laptops to use while waiting, so it's not as bad a sacrifice for me. I'm sure for those who need a laptop soon, the whole time-frame and effort involved in such replacements eventually reach a point where it's just not worth it.

Of course, if the perfect machine presented itself AND was defect free, I'm sure I'd get that instead....but no such machine exists for me at the moment.

Also, this is all hypothetical. I had no problems with my screen when it came. Who's to say that yours will have problems when it arrives?

 

Good for you. (I really mean that. That's not a sarcastic good for you.)

When Apple gets it right, they get it right.

I realize I'm in danger of becoming labeled as an Apple hating troll, which couldn't be further from the truth. I'm just giving advice, based on personal experiences with the current Mac laptop lineup.

Admittedly, I've never owned a MBP. Based on my experience with the MB, and large number of complaints I've read about the various MBP LCD issues, along with my stated facts and opinions concerning aluminum cases, I can't recommend the MBP.

I assumed the complaints about the Macbook were isolated, and wouldn't happen to me. So, I jumped in feet first and got burnt. I can't ignore the MBP issues.

 

I know what you mean. But, its also often a "misconception" about issues in any consumer electronics. These are forums, and forums for seeking help and giving help.

How often do you see threads that say "I HAVE A PERFECTLY FINE LAPTOP!!!"? Rarely . Most of the time its "My laptop has a problem...", because for the majority of users, if they have no problem with their laptop they're doing their own thing, instead of running to a forum to get help.

So for a lot of users, the fact that they see all these problems come up in the forum scares them into thinking that the product has serious widespread issues, when really, the 90% of users that are perfectly fine aren't writing about it on the forums.

 

I understand the mob mentality of online forums, and why someone may think I'm falling victim to it. I may have, but sometimes the mob is right.

The thing is, these MBP LCD issues have been going on for a long time. It's not segregated to the new yellowing issue of the LED displays. If you remember, the big problem with the Rev. A MBP was the graininess, which was never really solved, and really wasn't even acknowledged by Apple.

These problems lead me to believe that Apple is going on the cheap, with the 15 inch Macbook Pro LCDs. Maybe not in all of them, but enough of them to bring up the red flags.

The 17 inch MBP seems to be a different beast. I haven't heard of these issues affecting it. Obviously the yellowing remains to be seen, as the 17 inch MBP doesn't have the LED screens yet.

 

I know but looking at the temps in OS X the GPU idles much hotter than the CPUs though it's probably the CPUs in Windows that run hotter and tend to burn my lap due to Bootcamp being in Beta. I just wish it wouldn't run so hot at times since when it gets 30C up here (in Canada) without air conditioning I'm sure I could get some nice 1st degree burns with this thing on my lap for too long.

 

The heat issues, which are still present, and the continued use of Matsu****a drives is not a "bad batch". It is Apple continuing to use bad hardware and go with a poor design.

An inch and a half thicker and something that weighs 6lbs is not very large to carry. And like I said, most of the time the system is being transported, it is in a case. So why would thickness or weight matter then when the case itself adds even more weight and bulk? What does an extra pound on the notebook matter when the case itself adds 2 or more pounds?

I think having an extra $1200 in my pocket makes it a lot easier to carry an extra pound

A quick google search hasn't brought up anything regarding the different types of memory being used.

However, the real world performance difference between a GPU using GDDR2 and GDDR3 with the same processor powering it is.... what? Certainly not a $1200 difference. And the 200MHz difference really isn't that much. It honestly means what? Even the difference between the 2GHz processor in the system I priced and the 2.4GHz processor in the MacBook. That means it'll take an extra couple of minutes to encode a DVD. Is it really worth shaving a couple of minutes off when you have to spend almost double the amount to achieve that? Not at all, in my opinion.

Lets look at games for a second. Lets say the MacBook Pro at $2500 could run UT3 at 60fps while the $1300 Dell I priced could only run it at 55. That is certainly not worth the extra money and even the most hardcore gamers or Apple fans can't deny that.

Because Sony seems to think that their name still means something and prices their electronics accordingly. For example, they seem to think the PS3 is worth $600. Sony is basically run by madmen and they're driving the company into the ground. If it wasn't for their movie studio division, they would be sunk seeing as how their gaming division is losing money faster than a billionaire with a gambling addiction.

As well as the original MacBook screen problems, which still haven't been fixed and have resulted in a class action lawsuit against Apple. Uneven lighting, graininess, etc.

I've compared my friends 15.4" MacBook Pro that he just bought 2 weeks ago side by side with my MacBook. He has a glossy screen with the LED backlight. Honestly? It is not any brighter at all. Infact, even Apple says it should look the same as previous screens.

However, the Windows drivers for the new MacBook Pros aren't very mature. So the performance isn't where it should be at all. Even the drivers for the GMA950 are behind Intel's own revisions. I had problems with flickering in fullscreen games and sometimes in Aero with the drivers Apple provides. I had to upgrade to Intel's newest release to fix those problems.

What!? WinDVD is amazing! Especially compared to DVD Player in OS X! Where should I begin?

Most important feature is the "mobile power scheme" it enables. I used it very heavily on my old Turion64 2GHz system. Using WinDVDs power saving schemes, the system running at 800MHz used only 5-10% CPU usage while playing DVDs.

WinDVD also has a GREAT caching feature. It will cache as much of the disc as you have available RAM and play the movie out of the RAM. It extends battery life greatly, cuts down on internal heat, and helps your DVD drive last longer. The last two things are something Apple should be very interested in.

WinDVD's image qualtiy also blows away DVD Player. As I said before, the image quality difference is just as drastic as the difference between VHS and DVD. DVD Player doesn't even properly resample video to fullscreen/native resolution. WinDVD, and all Windows DVD players, do. DVD Player just kind of stretches the video out and makes it look incredibly soft, it loses detail, and honestly just looks all around horrible.

WinDVD also has other great features. Such as being able to smooth out framerate issues in some movies. And the ability to sharpen the picture beyond anything DVD Player is capable of. The proper video upscaling and sharpening can make you wonder if you're watching a DVD or HD-DVD.

WinDVD also has MUCH better sound options. Such as the ability to pass the LFE channel to stereo speakers or headphones. DVD Player just drops it all together.

WinDVD can also decode DTS

WinDVD is just an all around amazing piece of software compared to DVD Player and VLC. MUCH better image quality with proper upscaling, better sound, caching, etc.

The original comment stated that MacBook Pros get 4 hours more battery life than similarly spec'ed PCs.

Dialup modems are hardly "legacy". Roughly half the US is still using dialup and there are still MANY places you cannot get a broadband connection. Not all people can afford the outrageous prices for Verizon's EVDO service or satellite service.

Those things do "add value". However, OS X, the thickness (or lack thereof), and other things are simply not worth $1000 or so more than a similar PC. Compared to the $1300 Dell I priced, the $2500 MacBook Pro should really be priced around $1500 or so.

I'm sorry but, all factors considered, the MacBook Pro is still not worth the price over a similar Dell. If it was $200 more, sure. $400? MAYBE. But $700-$1200? Not at all. And the performance increase given by GDDR3 (if that rumor is even true, regarding Dells) certainly does not justify the $1,000+ increase over a similar PC.

In my real world experience comparing the LED and "old" screens? Not even close. Even Apple specifically said "users should not notice any difference between the new screens and the old ones". Any perceived increase in brightness is purely imaginary or caused by the user going from matte to glossy, or comparing their very used (and, of course, dimmer) screen to the new one. Compare a new MacBook screen to one of the LED based MacBook Pros and I guarantee you there will be very very little, if any, difference. Infact, go find somebody who bought a MacBook Pro with a glossy screen before the upgrade, just a couple of weeks before, and compare the two.

5? Sure if you have wireless of and the screen set to the lowest level. 4 hours? On a standard MacBook with the screen set to the lowest, with wireless on, but not browsing any sites with flash so the processors and fans don't ramp up to full speed.

But as I said, the original remark I was replying to stated that MacBook Pros get "4 hours more" battery life than similar PCs, which is simply not true.

See, now you're simply not looking at value. The fact of the matter is that you can build a system that is roughly 90% of the $2500 MacBook for almost half the cost. That is my point and complaint.

If somebody needs just email, organizing pictures, music, chatting, browsing, and posting on a social networking site, the $480 Everex machine from Wal-Mart (1GB of RAM, DVD writer, 100GB HDD, 15.4" screen) will be a much better buy than something that would cost nealry $1,000 more after taxes.

I'm sorry but OS X just doesn't justify the premium. It's nice and all, but not that nice.

Spyware is unavoidable? I'm sorry but in the decade and a half that I used Windows primarily, I never once had a piece of spyware installed. The only virus I ever had was a false positive java script that a website downloaded.

You don't have to worry about breaking the installation?

Tell that to the people who installed the Safari 3 beta That was a fun night for me, having to reinstall OS X so all of my most used apps would work again.

OS X is not problem free at all. If someone is dumb enough to get spyware or viruses on Windows then they will find a way to mess up OS X, guaranteed.

Exactly.

Exactly why I haven't gone to Apple yet regarding my issues with the DVD drive, squeaky keyboard, and uneven backlighting. I can't be without my system, and going through Apple would require me to be without a system for god knows how long.

 

Yes I think Sauron puts it best when he says you can get a machine with 90% of the specs for 50% or less of the cost. Its that extra 10% which is often (but not always) a few gimmics that seems to justify Apple's cost. Granted the MBP is the thinnest and lightest around, but c'mon.

And as to the recent iMac release... wow... just wow. When it comes to towers and desktop systems Apple is getting into the 2.5x the cost range. You could buy one machine with the same or faster specs, then one year later by and updated tower... then again another year later and then cost as much as the iMac's or worse yet the MacPro. Its obscene what people pay for this stuff. Apple was going good when its stuff was brand new and cost effect for that release point, but now they aren't even there.

 

I dont see a point in the imac personally, the only advantage is has is its really small space it takes. Id just get a notebook if that was a priority and gain the mobility, and alot of notebooks have better specs

We all know smaller and thinner ect cost more. So the MBP definitly justifies some extra cost due to it being the thinner and lighest notebook around with the specs it has. However its downfall is that you cant upgrade it like the slightly bigger notebooks. You have to pay the apple guys to do it for you and so thats even more cost over time if you want to ugprade, and again the whole thing about being stuck with the super high price tag if you want the better video card.

I dunno we can all argue till the end of time, on this and each side will continue to have alot of valid points, simply put however apple is definily charging too much for some of this stuff, because it can. It has a very dedicated fan base, and it offers things that others cant. So they make a killing off of you.

So if you want to bend over and let them have your money for the extra's then so be it. I guess I am one of the people that have to go where the price vs performance meets up to a closer scale.

I wanted the MBP not so much for the formfactor and weight, because I could easily deal with an extra .5" thickness and .5lbs and it would never bother me, but because I really just wanted to be uniqe and have a chance to use OSX. I also dont like the neon stuff on the G1S (the black gloss is sexxy tho and so is the touchpad) however there is the V series and the F8 just around the corner with almost identcal specs and a much more neutral and more business like look.

You cant even self replace the battery on the MBP can you??? isnt it an internal battery and they force you to buy one from them and have it installed by them?? Its that kind of stuff I really dislike.

If they could let me pick my gpu, and my hdd I would be a customer already, untill they are willing to work with me some and atleast let you pick what parts you want for the cost. Good ol' bill gates gets my money and I stick with PC hardware.

 

anyone know the odds of getting a bunk macbook pro? 5%? less? 1%? less than 1%?

what if there was a 1% chance you had to return it. would that be acceptable?

 

Exaggerate much?

Asus's are priced around $1600-$1900 with only the higher scale models (generally) matching the same specs as the lower-end model MBP, which I gather in the US is $2000.

Comparing Dells to MBPs is crazy. I don't think even people with screen problems have reported, like one guy who returned their 1520, an LCD screen which looked like it had been smeared over with vaseline.

Also if for Australians, similarly configured Dells to other countries are $500 or more expensive, so the price difference (again) as well as importing US Sony's or Asus's is negligble in comparison to getting a MBP. I guess if I was getting your sort of Dell pricing I would consider sticking it out for the horrid (yet powerful) machine that they provide.

 

I have ordered mass apple iMacs, minis and powerbooks to the tune of 25-50 at a time... often 25% need to be sent back immediately, and 50% over the course of a year... so... quality... I don't think so.

 

The Asus in question tho has specs comparible to the top end MBP wich is like 2400$?

 

Okay, Macbook Pro 2.2Ghz ($2000) and Asus G1S-A1 ($1850)

Differences:
GPU: 128 instead of 256
Resolution: WXGA instead of WXGA+
HDD: 120 instead of 160GB
Battery Life: 4 hours v 2 hours
Design: That's really up to you to decide what's better.

Yes, it is still overpriced, but the machine isn't totally different.

The Macbook Pro $2500 model has a T7700 which (correct me if I'm wrong) Asus has no models with, though the GPU in that instance matches the G1S one.

Though... I'm a bit more worried about TsunamiFury's quality control issue.

 

.... not at all? It's just a battery which you stick in and take out by pressing a latch...

I agree with tsunami that it's the 10% of difference that's not easily quantifiable into hard $$ that Apple tends to charge a premium on. However, everything is only as valuable as people are willing to pay - and if people are willing to pay the cost, then it's not overpriced period. If it's overpriced, then people simply wouldn't buy, or they'd buy from the competition (granted, this is hard from Apple's monopoly point of view and how inelastic the demand market for Apple products are, but it's still possible).

Rest of rebuttal to follow when I have time to post

 

The problem is, it isn't 1%. You're pulling these numbers out of thin air. No one know what the percentages are, because, like everything else, Apple keeps them secret.

All I know is this, I've owned several different brands of notebook computers including: Dell, Sony, Apple, Pro-Star

The only computers that I've ever had to send into the manufacturer for service are the Apple computers. The last one had to go in four times in the first seven months of ownership. That is not, what I would consider, a premium product.

That is what I consider to be the biggest problem with Macs. Premium prices are fine, but you should be getting a high quality product for the price.

When I purchased my VAIO, I paid through the nose, but I got what I paid for. It was a high quality machine, with premium fit and finish.

Every Apple computer I've ever owned has had at least one major hardware failure. Not bad hard drives or batteries (parts that I would consider a cost of ownership issue), MAJOR hardware failure. Getting a logic board replaced in an Apple laptop is practically routine maintenance.

I understand that, in the Apple community, secrecy is important. It's how Apple creates buzz, and gets the Mac community all whooped up. The problem is, at times, I think, Apple sacrifices quality for secrecy. Apple products never have mass testing before making it to store shelves.

Apple was able to hide its problems when their user base was restricted to a small community of zealots, who didn't have a problem believing whatever the company gave them as an excuse for the problems. Their community is growing, and it includes people are used to their computers not having to be serviced within the first year. Something has to give. Apple is going to have to step up their quality control and testing, or their recent surge is going to be short lived.

 

This is basically what is stopping me from buying MBP right now. I am just not convinced I will not get a dud. It's like with the old Dell Latitude 600 when it just came out. It was not uncommon for my company to get 20-25% failure rates on those things. Of course with Dell, they will send a guy next day to fix a problem, something not possible with MBP unfortunately.

Thing is that you can get 2 Dells for the price of MBP almost (at least with the features that are good enough for 99% of users), and that means, you can just get another one down the road.

On the plus side, MBP holds its value much, much better then any Dell, HP, Asus, or to lesser extent, Lenovo Thinkpads. Core Duo MBPs are going for over half the price they were bought at on ebay, which is nuts, considering they are 2 year old. So, in that respect, the cost differential over 2-3 years will even out compared to say Asus or HP/Lenovo (when the two latter finally start shipping, and actually 8510w cost same/more), and will get much closer to Dell.

Hmm... I think I convinced myself it's worth it to buy MBP, just going to wait a bit more for QC to get better . Think about it:

$2500 - to buy MBP
$1400 - to buy Dell (with 2.2ghz chip, just priced it out)

After 2 years - Sell MBP for $1300-1400 (maybe a bit more, maybe a bit less)
After 2 years - Sell Dell for $600

Cost of ownership: MBP $1200, Dell - $800. That is much, much closer. Now, throw in Education discount for MBP, and you get:

$2300 - MBP
$1400 - Dell (home discount + coupon is usually as good as epp/edu)

Cost of ownership: MBP $1000, Dell - $800. Hmm, that's only $200.

Out of scope:

1. Taxes. At 7%, MBP would add another $65-75 or so more.
2. Warranty cost for AppleCare or additional Dell warranty. Dell warranty is cheaper, but since I am calculating 2-year ownership here, that 1st year initial warranty plus extra year from credit card (depends on the card, I know) is enough for the purpose of this exercise.
3. Cost of Windows, and VMWare/Parallels. This may or may not be necessary, plus lots of people already have XP licenses. This can add $200 to the cost of the MBP, which is fairly significant.

 

Comparing the MBP to a dell inspiron is ridiculous. I have handled both, and it is night and day. Everything about the MBP is better, from the hardware, looks, weight,build...etc. I think it would be more fair to compare the MBP to the latitude line. At this point prices are much more similar...yet you do not get any good GPU options for the latitude at all. Inspirons are cheaper for a reason...cheaper parts/design/build/bulky. Really the MBP is reasonably priced. I am considering either this or the HP 8510p...and actually the 8510p is more expensive. So I do not know how you people are saying the MBP is overpriced. Maybe when comparing it to budget laptops...but not when someone wants a top class laptop.

 

This is what I experienced

Me and my friend own a 2 year old, Dell Inspiron 6000. And during the this two year period, we never ever once picked up the phone and call Dell for any sort of support what so ever. Never gotten a BSOD unless it's our fault. The laptop idles around 35C and loads around 50C with WoW on, I loved it . It was my 1st laptop, and I thought dell is pretty good.

Recently I bought an Apple MBP for the speed upgrade and same friend bought a Macbook after hearing people praise apple qualities. And since I bought it, I spent at least 2 hours on the phone with Apple support/care and 3 hours on the road to apple store to get my Yellow Tinted MBP with a vibrator function problems verified and replaced. And now, as I am typing on my good old dell laptop, I have to wait another week or so to get the replacement. My friend's Macbook died on the 1st week, wouldn't boot, the grey screen doesn't even show up. This is not what I call quality, and definitely not like how people described.

I think Apple spend majority of the time trying to make the consumers buy "Cool" looking gadgets and not really worrying about product quality. They are very "Shallow". Making it looks nice with all the aircraft grade aluminum, making it looks sophisticated doesn't mean jack $hit when it can't last.

at least in my experience, dell laptops r like soso mabe ugly looking girl but with a great personality and value.
Apple laptops r like these super hot chicks that you will never know when you will be ****ed over or dumped over night, but hey, with apple care you will get another one, so who cares.

 

Love the anology!

Apple = high class girls for those with more money so they can say "you get what you pay for " and

Stuff like Asus = average class girl, cost less and you can do all the same stuff with them no expensive purfume or presents requried.

 

The thing is, you can't do all the same stuff with them. I'm pretty sure most people can't run OS X on their Asus laptop. And for people that like OS X, apple laptops are a fine deal. You pay the premium for the fact that you can run their exclusive OS to begin with.

And many of you are blowing the apple quality control issue way out of proportion. You are saying Dell has better quality control than Apple? Their hardware is the cheapest on the market, with some of the most complaints of any vendor. A friend of mine had an Inspiron 9200 that had constant heating issues and terrible monitor problems. They took three weeks to fix it, and when he got it back, the heating issues still weren't resolved. And don't even get me started on their desktops. They may have improved slightly since, but everyone I know who had a Dell desktop experienced cascading hardware failures within a year after having owned it. When you buy a dell, you get what you pay for.

If a Mac ever fails (and I love how some of you are making it sound like they're the only computers that ever have problems), you can have them send you a replacement even before you send yours back for absolutely no downtime. Not to mention theyre next to the only vendor with their own retail store, so you can even walk into their store and have it fixed on the spot.

There are certain qualities on Apple computers that you certainly have to pay a premium for, and if you don't think that they're worth it, then Macs are obviously not for you. But don't try to convince people that your choice is the choice for everyone.

And the car analogy works much better than the girlfriend analogy. Unless you keep the girlfriend analogy strictly to bed activities. You can still drive it, the experience just isn't as nice.

 

Then... More to the point, any post warranty horror stories out there?

 

I know every comptuer has issues my C90 has issues :/ granted its a barebone :/

to say you cant do the same things on a pc or apple is a toss up.

Sure you cant run OSX, but any software you can run in OSX has muliple PC variants... So you are still doing the same thing.. just with a different software.

I can put that in girl terms again.... but this forum is not adult based

PC has always had the one up no Apple with software/games... just now that you can run Windows on the Mac they have gone even. Im sure there are ways to run OSX on a windows machine via emulation or something underground I just havnt looked into it.

edit: sure enough first google search and I found alot of resources on how to run OSX on a PC! Its just common sense if they had it so that you can run windows on a mac, that a decent "hacker" can make it work the other way round.

So that sort of kills the whole Mac is better because its the only way to run OSX argument totally, unless your afraid to do "unoffical" things.

 

You lost me here. Saying that Apple sends you a replacement before servicing your machine only proves that you have never dealt with Apple's service department.

Apple's service is good. It's so good, in fact, stuff like this doesn't need to be made up to make it sound better.

 

If mac OSX is such a superior OS compare to Windows, then they would it make it compatible to every system out there, and not keep it within a such closed "perfect" environment and then call it a better system because it doesn't get hardware compatibility issues, ie. BSOD.

The day Mac OSX support thousands of different hardwares and millions of different combinations without having issues, ill start comparing. Right now it's like high school football state champ vs NFL, totally different league.

 

pinwanger, still unhappy about your MBP situation, huh?

 

Wait, when did Windows ever start doing this?

 

first off, it requires moderate hacking to get through it. instructions are provided for novice attempters so anyone could do it with the proper hardware, but its not like downloading boot camp.

most of the osx software doesn't work... there are driver issues... there are a bunch of stability problems...

that sort of defeats the purpose of os x, which is primarily integration and stability (in my mind)

 

You're right it's way more trouble than it's worth.

Unless you're just playing around, I don't really see much point.

 

Woa, dude, where or in what reality do you live where you can get a T7500+ C2D, 8600M GT, 2GB RAM, 1440x900 res notebook for $1250? Or rather would you care to share what you were on when you wrote that whole post?

 

yeah... you cant.

also

thats not true. a lot of what makes mac osx a superior OS by some people's standards is in the fact that it is a closed environment. if you opened osx, you would be plagued by the same driver and compatibility issues that microsoft suffers from.

besides that, when you say "they" i think you mean "you". apple obviously has a different agenda. they are primarily a hardware company and have no interest in releasing their operating system for use with anything aside from their own hardware. that is how they make money.

 

The reason why OS X is not available for other systems is because Apple makes money primarily through its hardware sales; the software takes a back seat and merely another incentive to get people to buy the hardware.

 

What??

That is a very good reason why OS X is such a superior OS. Because Apple does the hardware as well as the software. They know exactly what processors, what graphics card, what RAM, what hard drive they're using, they know what they're putting into their Macs next. They can prepare for that and write the OS to best utilize the hardware. And because OS X is closed helps it from driver issues.

And that is a reason why we should give kudos to Microsoft as well. To write an OS that works on any computer is quite a feat.

 

Right you are, on both fronts.

I'm not really into talking superiority when it comes to these two operating systems. They both have their place, and Microsoft and Apple both do an exceptional job creating these operating systems.

It's amazing to me, especially with Windows, that these things don't crash more than they do.

 

I'm sorry but those are very uneducated responses. Apple hasn't been making their hardware for many many years. In these recent years Intel and ATI/Nvidia have even been making their most primary pieces of hardware: CPU and video card.

And I'm surprised you haven't heard of Linux which will run on pretty much any electronic equipment with 4MB of storage space.

 

Yes, absolutely. Apple uses parts made from other companies. Who doesn't?

But my main point is the fact that Apple knows what's coming next, and little features that they'll be adding to the Macs. Apple knew they plan to use NVIDIA's GeForce 8600GT on the new MBP instead of the previous ATI Radeon X1600. They prepared drivers for that right at the time of launch.

They write Front Row because they're planning to add an Apple Remote. They write Photo Booth because they're planning to add iSight cameras in all their Mac models (except Mac Mini and Mac Pro, of course). Most importantly, Apple wrote a version of OS X for Intel years before they even announced the transition. They knew they were moving into Intel and prepared OS X for Universal Binary right away. That's what I mean.

Yes, I have heard of Linux . But Linux wasn't part of the discussion so I didn't bring it up.

 

Look, the only point I am trying to make is, I paid extra money for the reliable hardware, so I don't have to experience what other people did with their purchases. But the result is that I didn't, and end up being a very unsatisfied purchase experience.

The only reason I bought up OSX because some people argue that the extra money is for the "Superior OSX" which then balances out the crappy QA.

 

Ok, I see I misunderstood what you were getting at. I thought you were talking about when they were still very much in charge of manufacturing their own hardware. I actually do not like how Apple is not utilizing the full features of their newer Nvidia graphics cards in OS X Tiger but hopefully that'll change in Leopard.

And while Linux hadn't been mentioned yet in the thread I just had to bring it up when you gave kudos to M$ for their "compatible" OS... And yet not mention Linux? Disappointing.

 

My experience with the receiving a replacement before you send it back comes from dealing with their Airport routers and other hardware. Either way, with their Macbooks, my family has been able to take them into the store and get them fixed or replaced on the spot. I have not experienced any other customer service as efficient and easy to deal with as Apple's.

And with the emulation of OS X: emulation is almost always slower than running the OS natively. That, and it's far too much for the average consumer to deal with. The average consumer would buy a mac, and want it to work right away for their computing needs. The more experienced user would use a mac for the enjoyable interface (of course, this is an opinion), and still have the option to run windows on the side for any games or third party software.

It's like a console vs a computer for gaming. You want something thats simple to use and plug-and-play, you buy a console, and for something you want to be able to tinker with and customize, but also spend a lot of time doing so, you use a pc for gaming. In this sense, Macs are the consoles of the computer world.

 

its funny how a simple thread about people regretting their purchase comes down to everlasting wndows vs apple debate

 

Those kinds of threads are the ones that get the most activity though Everything else either gets answered within the 1st 2-3 posts, directed to one of the stickies, or ignored altogether.

It could be worse...

It could be the Dell forum, with an entire subforum devoted to the horrible customer service, delivery times, on-arrival issues, etc.

Or the Lenovo forums, with every other thread about shipping delays and the off-centered screen.

Or the Rizeon forum, which hasn't seen a post since 3 weeks ago

Nothing against Dells, Lenovos, or Rizeons of course.

 

The funny thing is, I use a Dell now and I really don't like the Dell forum. It's way too much to keep up on. The threads come and go so quick in there, and it's mostly "gear-head" type conversation.

In this, and other, Apple forums, it's much easier to keep up on threads, from a sheer volume standpoint. And, if you don't want to get into crazy technical conversation, it's a much more enjoyable place to post.

Of course, it doesn't hurt that I enjoy using Macs.

 

The Dell forum is extremely busy right now. Absolutely berserk over there. I feel bad for the mods . Just the "Has your XPS M1330?" thread runs into hundreds of posts.

I agree, the Apple forum is much more calm. But its been busier than before; it used to be about "10 Members Viewing" a few months ago, now its usually "40 Members Viewing".

 

Being new around here, I wasn't really sure what the normal levels were for the different forums. Until recently, I really stuck around the Mac exclusive forums more than anything.

I like the atmosphere around here more, though. People are a lot less touchy than in places like Macrumors. I will say, the activity on most of the Mac forums has been blowing up over the last year, or so. They used to be dead.

 

Interest in Apple's been higher than ever. The iPhone and Microsoft's screw-up of Vista kick-started it, in my opinion. Now the world really is watching Apple's every move.

As much as there are debates around NBR, it really isn't the level of flaming at some other forums. In other forums people swear (censored by the filter, of course) and flame each other over whether Bart or Homer is the main character of the Simpsons.

 

I think I hang around here for the same reason people slow down to watch a car crash. You never tire of seeing how incredibly stupid some people are.

 

Great way to spend your time, tsunamifury.

 

It's a wonder you managed to pull yourself away from the mirror then
(yes, I'm joking, for anyone who thinks otherwise).

 

No no its true, if I had to leave the bathroom then i'd have to face the fact that I live in my mom's basement at the age of 45. But maybe if i buy a mac, it will be my friend? pweese?

but for real, yes its a twisted attraction.

 

This would be what you're looking for: