Apple -- The New Trend Setter ?

Apple recently released it's quarterly reports and it has certainly beat all Market predictions, and lately Apple has beat those market numbers on almost all of it's product lines.

Intel - Dropping 6,000 jobs & closing 5 plants
Nokia - Sales decreasing @ an alarming rate
General Electric - Profit down 44%
Sony - Closing 2 factories & cutting 2,000 jobs
IBM - Cutting approx. 16,000 jobs
NVidia - Revenues decrease 38%
Dell / HP - 8.6% and 5.9% below expectations.

Dell has had reports of management confusion and guidance problems. Lately, Dell seems to be confused as to what Models of laptops they are promoting blurring the lines between consumer & XPS units. Even their new XPS Studio 13 laptop which promotes SLI graphics is misleading as to the GPU's. (lots of forum anger over this GPU saga)

Microsoft ---- 5,000 job cuts in 18 months scheduled. 27% below expectations. Ballmer even admits that (pre-sales) are down 10%

With all the bad news on the market, my real question is why "Apple" has been getting such a bum rap with their stock prices (other than this last session).

Seems Apple has proved that they have a lot going for them.

!. Momentum in the marketplace
2. Leadership even without Steve (to soon to tell)
3. Price points and products that continually beat the market


Sorry for the long winded dissertation here. Just wondering from all the rest of you guys and gals, what your take on this is and how you see Apple's future compared to the rest of the world ?

 

Well, Apple sales will go down as well, that's for sure, and I actually think they will cut some jobs, but very few (compared to four-digit layoffs for other corporate giants). Apple has a solid $25 billion in the bank to weather the economic storm, and its become such a consumer company over an electronics company it is in the consumer mindset.

 

their product still fall in to the 'luxury' segment. so sales will fall substancially as consumer income decreases. but that's just economic theory, there is always the apple style persuasive advertising and the imaginary 'cool factor' they've successfully marketed. so only time will tell. what i can say with relative certainty is that in time of slugish growth/recession, apple will probably try to stay in the nice little niche market they have created. so don't expect growth in mac's market share or ipod sales. hey maybe ubuntu can make use of their cost advantage and grap a piece of the cake.

 

Sam

Thanks for the reply. I kinda thought you'd pipe in to this thread. Not the normal "Hardware / Software" type of discussion, but interesting none the less.

Microsoft (recent reports) has lost a lot of ground on the "Zune" player and with news blogs stating that Apple's iPod has hit a "Glass ceiling" in sales, the December 08 sales for iPod surged ahead of predictions.

I have really wondered if this is the point at which Apple will take another "Giant" step forward in History due to these economic trends.

 

Any personal computer (meaning non business oriented computers) fall into the luxury segment.
The thing is, Apple is the overpriced, "buy it for the looks/buy it for the name" brand in the computer industry. They will be affected much less because the people who buy apple to begin with are generally unaffected by the economic downturn.
Kind of like how Rolls Royce sales are the same in economic surplus and economic depression.

 

I wouldn't really call Apple's cool factor "imaginary". The iPod and the iPhone are two of the most popular electronic devices on the market right now, not because people think they are cool, but because they are the easiest to use, they have thousands of accessories available, and provide the most bang for your buck in their class. They do also have some of the best form in their markets as well.

You are right that Linux distros might gain market share when people are looking to pinch a few dollars. This will replace windows users who don't want to risk Windows 7 being as crappy as Vista (Though, Microsoft is doing the best campaign they have ever had with their free beta download. The only way to market Windows 7 was to give it away free for a while, to show people it wasn't like vista), so rather than sending Microsoft some cash, they will just download a nice ISO from a linux distro that suits them. If you give Ubuntu and Mint a few more years to grow, you can really have an OS that anybody can install (if you make them read instructions, it turns them away), and use without problems.

But I still think Apple might be able to gain some market share while things are down.

 

I'd be hesitant to put Rolls Royce and Apple products in the same category. Rolls customers are, by definition, wealthy. Average people cannot afford them. Average people, however, can afford Apple products.

An Apple laptop costs at most 10-15% more than a Windows-based machine with similar features (however the build quality on the Apple machine is typically superior). This is not that much of a premium to pay for a brand that you like, for whatever reason. People do it all the time for other products and brands that don't catch near the flack that Apple does. I hear SO much that, "..people buy Apple just for the cool-factor." Of course they do! We all buy certain products that way! From shoes to cars, from cellphones to computers.

Apple is a premium brand, I'll concede that. But it's not out of reach of the average consumer. And they do a great job at designing, building and marketing attractive products that people want.

It just burns my rear when people look down on Apple consumers as trendy or naive. If you've ever paid a little more for a "cool" pair of shoes, a "hot" automobile, or a "slick" cellphone, then you are no different.

I don't think very many people choose to buy things based 100% on practicality.

 

I completely agree!! It's usually people who are jealous, or aren't educated enough about Apple products that look down at others for buying them. Yes I'm speaking from experience!! Until I actually sat down and used OSX, I was of the same mindset.

I can't begin to tell you how often I've heard the comment about "drinking the Apple kool-aid", and it makes me laugh every time!

Now, having said all that, to the OP.........Del? Navidia? Seriously? Are you too lazy to correct yourself, or do you honestly not know how to spell Dell or NVidia? (sorry, pet peeve)

 

Winterymix:

Agree 100% ---------------

More people shrug off this obvious part of the buying decision. Buying is a multi-layered choice, which goes way past the dollar and cent price points.

It is interesting that a lot of detractors to Apple jump on the "cool factor" or "price" only to explain their position.

Odd that even "Dell" understands that consumers want more than just (flannel shirts) and are preparing to release their new "Adamo" (Apple Air) style laptop

 

Sadly the Adamo is being manufactured by Foxconn, so will surely have much lower quality than a Mac, manufactured by Quanta

 

nope, ipods have average sound quality. but the ui is good i give you that.

more like 50-70%. that's my point, it's a luxury product in a sense that you want it more if you have extra income.

true. their marketing is very effective.

how often do you see a guy/gal listening to an ipod with those hideous stock earbuds. and i don't look down on them, i'm just saying there are better products out there and it's unfortunate that many of them don't seem to know that.

i agree, which is why products are not homogeneous, and why certain industries exist(fashion ect.).

 

Lol, that's totally untrue.

Foxconn produces the iPhone and most of the ipods, and it is one of, if not, the largest manufacturer in the industry, they manufacture products for a whole range of brands.

it all depends on the company that is designing the product.

 

In my experience Foxconn's boards have not been nearly as reliable as Quanta's.
I did not know that Foxconn made the iPod though, I have seen those things last forever.
Perhaps I'm wrong.

 

I have owned Apple stock at times in the past, but I'm not interested in owning it right now. Here are some things I see as reasons for pessimism:

1. Computer sales are down industry-wide (and electronics sales), so Apple has to run just to stand still (so to speak).
2. The only CEO Apple has ever prospered under is Steve Jobs. The new CEO may very well be great, but I don't really know yet.
3. When iPhone was launched it was really the only finger-touch smartphone with a desktop-esque web browser. Now Google, RIM, Palm, Nokia, and it seems like everyone else is getting in to the action. Maybe none of them will "beat" the iPhone... but some of them could split up the pie a bit.
4. Apple's recent ads have largely been about bashing Vista, and Steve Jobs has cited Vista as a reason people are switching to Mac. Well, Vista will be replaced pretty soon... by an OS that's getting almost universally good reviews.
5. Apple's computer lineup is not designed or priced for a recession.
6. The SEC is investigating Apple for a failure to disclose Jobs' health issues to investors. (Probably not a big deal, but not exactly a good thing.)
7. At the recent Macworld conference, Apple unveiled... nothing exciting. (New version of iWork... blah.) In fact their last major new product (not update, but new product) was... iPod Touch, I think, and that was a while ago now.
8. No iPhone nano, and no Mac netbook imminent, apparently: http://www.appleinsider.com/article..._out_iphone_nano_not_keen_on_mac_netbook.html
9. The era of no significant malware for Macs is over.
10. Still no Macs with Blu-ray?


On the plus side for Apple, I see:

1. They seem to be growing internationally and will probably continue to do so for some time to come.
2. iPod, iTunes, and even Apple TV are all doing great.
3. They have a ton of cash lying around to help them through the tough economic times.
4. Potential for positive product surprises... who knows what they have up their sleeves.

 

With Snow Leopard release between now and mid year and Windows 7 right behind it this year, I just see Microsoft more in need of an OS success than Apple does. No matter how Vista is viewed, Windows 7 needs to the "Better" Vista.

This is where I was headed at the beginning of this thread. I wonder if this is the next "Spring Board" for Apple to surge ahead, even in a recession !!!

 

I am sorry,but most of you reasons a) have nothing to do with stocks b)are inaccurate

please take a look over our recent discussion over this

 

apple is one of the rare companies prospering in these dark times and i hope this trend continues, unlike microsoft who has cancelled its whole flight simulator programme and has sacked the whole team!!

 

Don't forget that Foxconn makes the Iphones for Apple

 

I think apple is trend setter.Their prices are high & but every product have innovative feature. Actually others companies going after apple when they realise they are loosing valuable customers for Apple

Eg:Apple introduce MacBook Air now Dell Adamo Voodoo Envy
Apple iPhone, now everyone follows it

 

I think he made excellent points. You are sounding a bit fanboyish here? Please elaborate on why Swarmer is so wrong, I'd like to know.

 

please explain you reasoning because i agree with him on many points.

1. jobs announces 5 month absence and aapl drops 10%. the announcement of a new CEO is very significant.

2. aapl is typically up or down following macworld announcements.

3. prices of any companies stock always move on any announcment. the lack of news is also significant.

now explain to me how this is inaccurate.

 

apple is doing good but now the only trend setting thing they are doing is making iphones, and expensive macs( present not the past). not everything they release is innovative like the ipod nano stolen design from the zune which was stolen from someone else. the ui is cool but not the best but people are buying them because there apple products. the iphone is innovative and the prices of them are lower and macbook pros are really expensive for the specs in my checkbook not worth it and...
brain fart
end of the story there still doing good and will probably fail somewhere down the road(every company does) but not now.
idk where i was going with this

 

I wouldnt say macs are expensive as gaming notebooks such as alienware tops out at over 5k.

 

nothing is as expensive as alienware but compared to the price you can get cheaper ugly laptops

 

Exactly, you get a superior OS, much better design pretty much no chance of getting viruses.

Not to mention you can run windows via bootcamp or run numerous parallels/vmware fusion to run windows/linux.

Especially the features that you get and longevity of the Apple notebook, the macbook pro cannot be compared to any cheapo gateway or hp notebooks.

Anyway, basically Apple has started a massive trend when it comes to the markets for the mp3 players (ipods), computers (macbook/macbook pro/mac pro/imac) and especially (cell phones) iphones.

You also can notice that microsoft has copied many of OSX's features which as been around for a long time now and as for the iphone, basically ever other new phone from many different OEMs look like a fake a$$ iphone.

 

he didnt mention anything about mac gaming did he?

and yes alienwares are very very expensive, but the hardware is also much better than what you find in any other laptop.

and i do agree that apple was a trend setter in the mp3 and phone markets. their computers havent set any trends though.

 

True, basically its a trade off. You pay a premium for the hardware on the alienware to get the best gaming done and with Apple's notebooks you get the very best OS with the best features, design that has longevity written all over it. And especially to get the very best and everything else one better besides gaming.

 

for some 1k for something that has the same components, (in my opinion) ok OS or (in someone elses opinion)better OS, better looking than most(not all) laptops in this current economy isn't enough to justify the price. when the economy is all good and well then maybe yeah. the iphone is the main reason it's ahead now. the regular ipod helped get it here but if there was no iphone they would be losing some gain. so they started a trend when they release the ipod, but know i believe they haven't started anything( except in phones)

 

Just look at Windows Vista and 7 since they copied a lot of features from OSX and called it a different name, I'd say Apple has already started a "trend" since the 1990s.

 

what features have they copied?

 

For one the new taskbar that acts eerily similar to the dock. And Aero with the graphical touches and scrolling of the multiple windows (like expose). Not to mention "Gadgets" its like a bootleg dashboard instead of OSX's "Widgets".

 

When it come to the OS, I think both party's coping each other

 

Actually if you really dig deep from day 1, Apple's OS was the first after microsoft ripped it off and made it cheaper.

 

lol well now people don't have to pay for the OS since it's most of there features are in wins 7(also they both steal ideas from each other) so maybe they should lower there price. there trend is slightly dying so they will have to make some more innovative things to get it back started(the iphone helped)

 

Have you seen Apple's notebook market, it continues to grow every year. I would say after Apple has officially switched to Intel that it is only the beginning of the "trend."

I think in the next 10 years everyone will have an apple notebook with OSX and businesses will completely drop windows and move on over to LINUX (which is basically the same UNIX system underneath but not as prettied up and polished as OSX).

 

yeah but you forget the economy is worsening so it will probably keep steady instead of getting better. netbooks will probably take some of the share

 

If the economy gets that BAD, I'm sure Apple will adapt to it and lower the price down as many other companies have been.

If you really look close at the prices since the last 15 years, Apple's notebooks has dropped ALOT in price and continues to with every new and better hardware/technology.

 

Um, actually, the new taskbar's design heritage goes back to 1985 and Windows 1.0 - http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/archive/20...-windows-on-the-evolution-of-the-taskbar.aspx


By rickhamilton620

As for everything else, you might have a point, but there is only so much you can do while maintaining the whole "desktop w/ windows" metaphor, that computer users (both Mac OS and Windows) have come to expect from a operating system.

 

Lol Windows 1.0 came in 1985 but guess what came before then?? OS classic came in 1984.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS#.22Classic.22_Mac_OS_.281984.E2.80.932001.29

Either way I guess you would really say Apple copied Xerox alto's gui first so they have the copyright!
http://www.cedmagic.com/history/xerox-alto.html

 

he said taskbar lol do you always have to be right

 

do you honestly believe that everyone, and by everyone i assume you mean MSFTs current market of ~90%, will own apple propriety hardware? because thats what it would take for everyone do run OSX.

if apple is to ever have a chance at even 25% of the overall pc market they have to sell their OS to other manufacturers. thats my opinion at least.

markets such as China and India, half of the worlds population, will certainly not pay the premium. thats a fact.

if apple were to own the majority of the market while selling proprietary hardware they would need to sell their computers at a discount of 40 to 50% to match current pc pricing. this would result lower quality throughout.

an OS on proprietary hardware will never work, EVER.

apple prices may have dropped, but theyre still the highest in the industry when compared component for component.

if their prices continue to drop as a result of increased market share, as will the quality of the product.

 

Taskbar is at the top of OS classic.

 

Ok I change that "everyone" to "most people."

I think it really depends on how windows 7 works out for microsoft. If it becomes a 2nd coming of Vista then I think its safe to say microsoft will be history.

But so far from good reviews windows 7 is pulling in just ok.

I can also say this, once Apple starts aiming at the gaming market and they probably will in the next decade, you can kiss microsoft goodbye.

I do have to say that microsoft had a brilliant marketing and purely with an inferior os and product and thats the only reason why microsoft had most of its shares but this will turn around in the next 10 years.

Especially with Steve Jobs health on the edge lately, once he's gone you dont know what Apple will do.

 

don't worry they won't if they do(which will never happen) they steal won't beat microsoft

 

Good things always come to an end. You will see Apple taking over once Apple gets a new CEO.

Imagine, macbook pro's being priced the same price as xps (with the same hardwares as well) while you get OSX + gaming has made an official crossing over to OSX and leaving windows.

I dont see why Apple couldnt start getting the gaming shares and I did read about the next Mac Pro's (desktops) Nehalem might be aimed at gamers as well.

 

wow you have some dreams you sure are an extreme apples fanboy

 

Although I'd like to dream, Apple will need "Years" more under it's belt to put a large enough dent in Microsoft's market share.

Needless to say Apple has perched itself very well lately and is "Chipping Away" on that market share. Apple is not stupid. It's a lot easier to be # 2 whittling away at the # 1 spot.

I've read lately (do a lot of reading) that both Apple & Windows operating systems have matured to a point that we will not see great advancements in the close future. Maybe this is one of the reasons both companies are trying to perfect their OS instead of re-inventing the wheel.

 

You still couldn't permanently store program shortcuts there

 

I hardly think that Apple is a trend setter, they are always one step behind but their products, once released are better....

 

i think the key is the netbook market. it's a very sizable market, profit margins seems to be okay(which explains the recent swarm of competition).
if apple can gain a foot hold here, i think 25% of os market share is within reason.
on the plus, apple already have a well established brand, cost of entry would be small 'relatively'.
but, in order to enter a market for low end systems, they may have to re-adjust their brand image, which is rather unlikely.
firstly, i don't think shareholders want to see apple deviate from their long running and successful business model. (premium good for a price)
secondly, remarketing is very costly, even for apple's big wallet.
finally, which is sort of the same as the first reason, drastic change in time of a recession--->you must be desperate. it's the standard chain of thought, makes shareholders go nuts.
and again don't forget that the netbook market is showing signs of heavy contest, apple's success is based on creating and dominating smaller niche markets.

bash me fanboys!

edit: back to topic, i think apple's market share will shrink a little, because windows machines are cheaper. but apple will live on for quite a while, and may emerge with healthy profits when the recession is over.