Boot Camp Quick Question

If I install Windows 7 or Vista using boot-camp does my mac essentially turn into a pc?

So would that mean everything that works for Vista such as my printer for example would work with the mac while I'm on Vista.

 

Your Mac is already a PC with out Windows installed.

Yes.

 

Thanks Seshan.

My next computers going to be sweet.

 

From what I understand, it can become a PC with limitations, e.g. Windows will not be able to access all the hardware, it will run hotter, use the battery up faster, etc.

 

I would disagree, the hardware is all pretty much compatible...as long as you get all the drivers

 

The only hardware that won't work is the 9400 if you have a 9600 too.

 

So with the correct Windows drivers installed (where ever they come from), it runs all the hardware just as well as OS X?

It doesn't get really hot under Windows?
The sound works properly and at the same volume as under OS X?
Windows can suspend and hibernate just as it would on any other PC laptop?

It's really odd, I can find lots of posts about problems running Windows via BootCamp, these to me don't suggest that everything works well. If I had spent that sort of money on a PC laptop, and the complaints posted are valid, I would take it back as not fit for purpose.

 

All the hardware works, there are some problems with Win7 and sound volume not being as loud, but the hardware still works.

 

Okay, thanks.

 

@Seshan & Polok120: please be more precise when explaining because we're talking about thousands of dollars of investment here....the macbook pro does NOT run windows fine..please don't lie... The macbook pro will run veeery hot on windows(~70-72 sometimes uuper60's) with simple web browsing...vista is NOT compatibe...everytime my vista crashes....it's got something to do with the keyboardmgr.exe and the nvidia driver...battery life is veery poor...2hrs on power saver with mid-low brightness....gaming is in the eighties degrees celcius....not to mention that sometimes the fans take time to react and sometimes will start spinnig up when the laptop has reached the 80's....i laptop is perfectly normal because im now at 43c on os x and when using the 9600m gt, it is ~52c when i surf the net...how i hate apple for lying to us that is runs windows...it should have been "Macs can now run windows, but put on a heat shield when using these on windows"...beware...keep away from macs if you are buying macs for the sole intention of running windows...i suggest you go to a pc laptop...macs dont fully support windows...bad hardware support, bad battery life, poor heat dissipation, vista freezes, xp fries your legs and w7 hovers from upper 60's to 80's sometimes while surfing the net...


TRUST me, i'm a reputable member here and i have used windows xp, vista, 7rc, and 7rtm...macs are not designed to run windows..end of story...

 

running fine is completely subjective...

you cannot say "your wrong it does NOT run fine" .... for some people it runs perfectly fine, for others with what they do (or don't do or do wrong or whatever) it runs really bad.

The little I've used 3 different Macs booted directly into Windows (XP and Vista) it runs just fine, and perfectly usable to me.

 

Did some tests, GPU runs at 70c, CPU around 55'c in Win 7. Now we just need to find another none Mac notebook with the same specs to see if it is BootCamp drivers or Windows it's self.
You need be more specific to what is running hot for you, saying it's running at 70c does not say much because there are many sensors, CPU, GPU, etc. If the CPU is running at 70c then you probably have a problem.
Windows 7
http://img.skitch.com/20091006-pwswyw55xcuwppsu483wfe5wy4.jpg
OS X
http://img.skitch.com/20091006-cpakk4954suac9imsd4mwit9bg.jpg

I have never had my Win 7 install crash. Apple didn't lie to you, it runs windows fine. Maybe not perfect, but when does windows run perfect?

 

i mentioned i was talking about the 9600m gt...since when is web browsing with a gpu at 70c is perfectly fine? try notebookcheck.net and you'll see notebooks with similar gpu (and almost same config) running windows fine with no crazy temps and better battery life.....upper 70's is perfectly fine while gaming but is not fine while browsing the net... i repeat i've been monitoring my temps on both os x and windows...my temps are perfectly normal under os x...the problem is in windows...try to google a bit on hot apple bootcamp and you'll see how many people are encountering this problem...2hrs battery on power saver on low brightness? is this a joke apple??i have to roam around uni with my charger everyday...w7 never crashed on me too but it ran hot...sometimes rising to the 80's (NOTE THAT I"M ALWAYS MONITORING MY GPU TEMPS BECAUSE THAT"S WHAT GETS THE HOTTEST)...btw, how can the mac run windows fine if it crashes so often on Vista(Have you actually tried vista on your mac?). be careful, fine means with little or no problems...if we classify viruses, registry problems etc as small problems, then heat, crashing, poor battery life and no windows support from apple should be classified as a major problem...apple says they dont support windows on their macs and if we get probs, to contact MS, and MS puts the blame on poor hardware support from mac...

@doh123: if running on high temp, poor battery life(in windows) and gaming on crossover platform is fine for you then it's OK. but i believe the majority of people want to be able to use their macs as a laptop, not a notebook...even my 9400m gpu on os x is ~43c..i can use it on my lap..if i try doing the same thing under windows, i will end up frying my legs...i believe many people are buying macs because it is now "compatible" with windows but they end up being unsatisfied.

 

Well if you are using windows all day then you bought the wrong computer.
Also I checked that notebookcheck site, I couldn't find temps for the notebooks I looked at, can you send me a link to one?
No I have never used Vista on my Mac, Never bought Vista because it was a crap OS to begin with.

 

if you navigate to the heat emissions secrion, you can see the temps: http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Acer-Aspire-6930G-Notebook.13876.0.html

i use windows for programming..i also use unix for programming..
if vista was a crap os, why did xp nearly melted the laptop...temps were very high...upper 70's...apple has badly written the power management drivers. the drivers are also conflicting between each other causing system crashes in vista.

 

Well, you missed this on the link. http://www.notebookcheck.net/typo3temp/pics/97a5e8b767.png check out the GPU. *edit* Okay I can't link to it but click the image that looks like that in the temp section.
*edit*
Here, It's getting the same temps you say the MBP gets.

 

ok and what about this? they said they applied load and the print screen is just beside the text...so you missed that part.

..the mac even without load, is at this temp...

 

I think they are talking about the bottom of the case since that's what all those other temps are under the text and they say that on the bottom it reached 46.5c. The ones in the window I'd say the Max temp would be the one with the load since well that's got the highest temps. Value would be current. Even the min temp is only 10c less, and it's not enclosed in a aluminum box. I'm sure if you put the acer in the MBP case you would get the exact same temps.

 

in the picture the current value was at 73c. so they must have quit the application and the temperature was still decreasing from 89c. notice that when hw monitor was launched, the temps were at 59c, that is, before the load...
The rpm of my fans at 70c is 2000rpm...it starts to rotate faster only in the upper 70's..apple should have forced the fans to rotate at2800-3000rpm under windows...

 

the msi gx620 runs cooler but has almost the same specs http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-MSI-Megabook-GX620-Notebook.13634.0.html

 

its nice to know that a giant laptop with tons of extra room for cooling actually does cool better...

Just because the same chip in a different laptop runs cooler, doesn't really mean anything, what-so-ever... oh no.. the chip might only last 10 years instead of 20... thats just horrid...

 

Wow, since when a 2.7kg laptop is giant? are you an elf?

Just because it runs cooler, there's no chance it will OVERHEAT...nvidia chips are known to heat up like crazy...And where did you read that the lifetime of a gpu is 20 years? Any source? Also if you wanna be sarcastic, do not post...it's rude...

 

like most of the things in this thread, which are trying to be passed off as fact... "rude" is also subjective

3.2 x 35.8 x 25.9 means it'll be around 2967.1 in total volume at 2.7kg

2.41 x 36.4 x 24.9 means it'll be around 2184.33 in total volume at 2.49kg

While size difference might not be anything to you, or many people you have seen, not everyone is the same or has the same priorities. The laptop you linked isn't quite as bad in size as some, but its still plenty of extra space for more cooling. If you would rather have a cooler laptop that is bigger, and the size is great with you, thats fine, just know that other people don't feel the same way.

but I wasn't really meaning that as a reply to your exact post...

 

most of the comments i have read on the apple forums suggested that people running windows through bootcamp were heavily complaining about the heat issues on their macs.. they cant even use their macs on their laps or on the couch. this can be done on os x because it runs cool. also there are lots of people who value temperature as this is bad not only for our health but also fot the components of the laptop...

 

The idle temp is a little higher in Windows, not much...

the max temp in Windows is the same, it can also get extremely hot in OSX. I've done little actual testing, but when I have used Windows, it really is barely different than under OSX. Just a lot of Mac users really nitpick and complain about every little thing. Some 2008 unibodies had heat sensor and fan change issues and in Windows they would get extremely hot and overheat, but it was not by design.... those pretty much started the complaining.

 

in os x,it gets hot only under stress, not simple web browsing..Is 70c barely different for you? if 70c (gpu)or above while simply browsing the net on windows is barely different than running os x, then i think your computer has a problem..the laptop runs dead cool on os x. mine is not overheating because it runs fine on os x. the problem is when running windows on my mac..It gets hot as hell...Apple has still not found a solution for this even one year after the release of the unibodies..one thing i know for sure is that i'm not buying an apple again. it is a good laptop under os x but painfully horrible under windows...i think most of these people complaining have a good reason for doing so, they are not nitpicking or anything. the thing sure gets really hot under windows...

 

It runs hotter because of it's design, it does not have a crap load of vents on the bottom or sides like these other notebooks do, it's made of aluminum so it absorbs the heat better, THAT'S WHY IT FEELS HOT ON THE BOTTOM. You know what Apple needs to do to stop people from b*tching? Not allowing Windows on it at all! Oh wait, then they would just b*tch because they can't run Windows. Because they look at other notebooks that are designed differently and are meant to run Windows and expect to get the same thing. Cut some vent's in the bottom of your Mac then it will be cooler for you. These things are designed to run OS X not Windows.

 

The reason for this is Apple did not work with Microsoft to ensure good compatibility, not that they are keen to do so anyway.
Apple did sell Macbook as able to run Windows hence they by rights should ensure good compatibility.
When you get Aluminium you get heat conductivity as well.

 

Hmmm, well don't own an aluminum apple. But for me on my White MB (2009 9400M) heat seems the same for me in OS X and XP through bootcamp.

But thats just my experience.

 

I guess I'll wait until Apple fixes some of those issues. I think the solution would just be more compatible drivers.

In my the back of my mind something tells me Apple has little to gain from a fully compatible mac, but it could just be genuine incompatability.

 

that's what i've been trying to say. if you want a windows machine, get one...macs are not designed to run windows...also there was a thread where a user cut holes on the underside of his mac but there has been little to no decrease in temperature..There's no mention of the tremendous heat generated with bootcamp on the advertisements. they just say "Wow, the mac is the best windows machine" or things like that...I know for sure that i'm not buying a mac again...

 

If you are going to run windows all day then you should get a PC, but for most people bootcamp is fine, heat is not a problem. Apple does not advertise it that you should run windows all day. Pulled from their site.

 

Do you have a source which states that for most people, bootcamp is fine? Where's your proof? if apple advertised that Vista runs fine on the macbook pro, then how come many if not most of people on apple forums are experiencing system freezes on Vista? even i when i used it once in a blue moon, it freezed.. You may say that Vista is a lemon, but Apple advertises that their macs run Vista, so there's a problem in this statement then...

 

some people on a forum say there is a problem doesn't mean most... usually you only hear from people having problems, not the millions who are working fine.

If there is a major problem, the burden of proof isn't on the person saying there isn't a problem.

And running Vista 64 directly on my Macbook Pro... when web browsing, does NOT get up to 70º ... if yours does get that hot, maybe your machine is having the problem.

doing similar stuff, with my 9600GT enabled, between Vista64 and OSX is about a 0º to 10º difference depending what I'm doing.

 

like i said above, my gpu is working FINE on os x... i think you are monitoring your temps only for a few minutes, because after an less than an hour, the temps will rise, google for it and you'll find millions of pages on the heat problem...if a popular site like anandtech has said that the gpu is burning hot, do you think i will lie? what will i gain by lying? you are right in telling that some people said, because the majority believe that if you can see millions of threads or pages relating to heat problem, then something is surely wrong with the heat dissipation on these laptops...

 

I would say that the millions that buy either a PC or a Mac are going to stay with the OS that was pre-installed, and if they want to change OS it will only happen when they buy a new computer.

 

I never said they don't get hot... I'm only saying there is little difference between Windows and OSX in temps.

 

I thought PC v Mac threads were intense. Mac v Mac threads are even better!

It really is subjective. But I don't understand the subjectiveness of these measurements. 80C is too hot? Is it above specifications? Or is it just hot in your non-engineer opinion?

All looks like FUD to me.

 

@Surfasb: Yeah, this thread is getting quite hot!! According to my engineer opinion, 80c is a little bit hot for our legs or even our hands....as soon as the temps get greater than 65c, it starts becoming hot to the touch making it uncomfortable to use. Now if i include my engineering opinion, the hotter a card becomes, the more it will expand, then it cools down when i shut down my computer. the rapid expansion and contraction may cause hardware damage...once, my laptop has reached 94c before my fans started kicking in slowly...bringing the temps to 70's...this should never have happened...apple wrongly implemented it's windows drivers...the trackpad is another story...it's so sensitive that once i scroll down with your 2 fingers, i have already reached half page...there are more problems with apple drivers, including the high dpi issues...

@Doh123: what do you mean when you say the temps are nearly the same in windows and os x? You said you never said they did not get hot....so yours gets hot in both windows and os x?

 

Driver problem or User stupidity? Adjust the scroll rate in the mouse settings.

 

it's Driver problem because the pages do not scroll down smoothly and it's quite jumpy.

 

Weird, a driver problem...That I don't have. I think your problem is Vista.

 

Could be display driver issue that causes tearing worth checking it out.

 

im using w7...what i'm saying is that when i scroll down, it is not fluid....like safari on mac...it is a bit rough....it is not that accurate like on mac os..i had already decreased my scrolling rate, but i find scrolling to be easier on a separate mouse...the trackpad is too sensitive on windows....

 

Yeah I know what your saying, I tried it and it was smooth and accurate after adjusting the scroll rate. I was using Chrome.

 

i'm using I.E....it's just not smooth... the pages do not glide..it scrolls line by line...

 

i've enebled smooth scrolling...it seems a bit better but still when i stop scrolling, it takes time to stop....safari in os x stops instantly.

 

Have you tried chrome or firefox.

 

i used firefox....it's because the smooth scrolling is better implemented in there but still when i stop scrolling, it does not stop immediately like in safari....also i read that smooth scrolling is not present in chrome and safari for windows...

 

Btw anyone tried undervolting on Macbooks both Processor and GPU?