MS pours some more petrol on the ever burning flamewars.

A lot of "non techie types" shop like this actually. Many people still value the experience of going into a physical retail environment. Some are a bit wary of shopping online, and others would rather physically look at/poke/examine a product before buying it. As for her requirements (17 inch screen, comfy keyboard...) again to some people, my friend for example, those would be perfectly acceptable-they don't care or even know the differences about screen resolution, the exact gigahertz of a processor, etc. Tangible things like the keyboard and screen size that they'll notice everyday stick out more.

As for the screen size, remember that she just graduated, perhaps it would be her primary machine at home as well as occasional trips to the coffee shop, etc. so she wanted a nice large screen. Just as Apple provides screen sizes to fit most anyone's needs, so do PC manufacturers. I'm happy that ad's highlighting each platform's strength's/weakness's are out there as it keeps everyone innovating and striving to create their best products.

Ricky

 

I notice the one thing they didn't add into the equation was..."and I want to run OS X". Kind of changes the whole issue. Anyway to make a long story short, I was a long time PC user (about 1988 forward, until I saw the new unibody MBPs this past fall. Always wanted to try a Mac so figured it was the right time. Has nothing to do with being a Mac fanboy, wanting more for less, having too much disposable income, etc. Has to do with wanting to try out a Mac...and now I use that MBP exclusively because it DOES make me more productive (as in I haven't had one single crash in over six months).

Commercials are commercials. You can be a sheeple or you can decide for yourself what's best for YOU!!!

 

The only issue from your list that was brought up about the ad is that it was scripted. All the other "issues" you list are just preferences people brought up while discussing the ad or examples to back up that is was scripted.

Riddle me this Batman.... If this ad is on the up and up, why would MS make her sign a NDA (Non Disclosure Agreement)? She is not allowed to discuss the ad or even her experiences with her new laptop.

 

LOL...of course she can't discuss her experiences with it...it's likely running Vista, if it's running at all (hasn't been infected yet)...that is if it's even capable of connecting to internet...

 

Gosh. *facepalm* I know it's the Apple forum and all that, but please grow up. Yeah, MS poured some fuel on the fire, and you people continue to do so. It generated some buzz alright, mission accomplished.

 

That's pretty typical of the industry. For one, her stint with Microsoft may or may not be over. Two, the company will respond to comments on the record, not the actors and actresses of a commercial.

Not everyone is comfortable making a major purchase of an item online. For example, car shopping online will get you some great deal. Even though I am knowledgeable about cars and am comfortable shopping online, I value the ability to see with my own eyes the finer details only possible by a firsthand shopping experience.

This is a fair point and IMO this is the Mac's strongest selling point. The Mac cannot go toe to toe with the PC in terms of pricing. PCs are a commodity. Like any commodity, the product expectations are standardize from one supplier to another and thus price becomes a more shifting factor. There are whole books written about how you don't want your business going toe to toe with a commodity. All you have going is who can go lower.

Macs, on the other hand, are not a commodity. Their supply is far smaller and the pricing point much higher, thus changing the dynamics of the relationship between the buyer and supplier. The OSX, or more so the unified software and hardware system, makes for a much more pleasant computing experience for first time users. Many of the quirks of Windows are not present on OSX.

Years ago, Target retail stores were having a tough time fighting Walmart in the retail space. Wal-mart's revolutionary supply chain system had driven down costs to levels never seen before. Target responded, not by lowering costs, but selling an experience. They changed their marketer, started bringing in new designers for their clothes and domestics, and made headroom in the customer service arena. It's a great case study and I suggest anyone interesting in management should research.

 

I agree this is a much better advertising campaign than the "Seinfeld" and "I'm a PC" Campaigns that had no substance at all.

There is no denying that there are a lot of "value" PC's out there that are much cheaper than premium PC's or Macs. Times are tough and price can sell - just look at the Netbook market. Since Apple doesn't play in the "value" segment there are customers they can't serve.

But anyone who thinks a $600 value pc is the same as a $2500 premium Mac (or PC) is deluding themselves. A few superficial numbers on a spec sheet that look similar don't take into account deeper numbers, quality, design, support etc. Thats like saying a $10,000 KIA is the same as a $25,000 BMW because they are both 4 seat sedans with a four cylinder engine with about the same horsepower and automatic transmissions.

Its ironic that MS is spending money on advertising low margin products that they have almost no competition on just so they can imply that "equivalent" Apple products (from a whole different market segment) are more expensive.

You go for it MS - I'm glad you aspire to become the Yugo of the software Industry - lol

 

There's nothing wrong with stating the facts, which is the average user cannot buy a macbook for $1000 unless they wanted to squint their eyes.

So what if its fake, it gets its point across, PC's are cheaper for those who just need to get the job done. I can easily say that everyone that did the 'switch' ads were actors or anything Justin Longe was saying because he was paid to do so.

Just let it be, the first windows ad that pokes fun at the Apple Macs. Apple has been doing it for years the other way around. Live a little.

 

I have no problem with MS mocking Apple based on pricing, I do have problems with them lying though. I was a Windows user since it first came out, DOS before that along with Amiga OS. MS lost me, along with many others over the whole Vista deal. The MS compatibility checker said I would be fine with any version I Vista I wanted to buy. Being a Windows geek, I bought the Premium version at launch and thought I might upgrade to premium later to get the exclusive extras. Low and behold Vista didn't want to run Aero and I had several other issues (networking, driver issues and such). Vista was the worst upgrade experience I ever had and cemented for me that MS doesn't care about quality. I'm much happier now with my Mac where things actually work correctly.

Back to the ad... The advertisement is billed as an actual buyer's experience when it is in fact a scripted event portrayed by actors. The Apple ads do not claim to be anything more than actors doing a scripted commercial. That is why people are upset, more lies from MS.

 

LOLLLL thats hilarious.

 

Its better if Microsoft compared $800 PCs to $2500 Mac Pros. It makes for better TV.

Its pretty clear what would happen if Microsoft compared $2500 PCs to $2500 MacPros. But then again, running up the score is good for TV.

I can see the ad now. You could get a $2500 Mac Pro with 320 harddrive, or you can get a $2500 Dell Precision with 2x 320 free fall sensing harddrives.

1 yr warranty vs 3 yr warranty NBd.

You COULD get a unibody construction. Or you can get accidental protection. Then run over your laptop, with a Bobcat, and come out with a replacement. All in time for the weekend.

And you could fancy yourself with a fingerprint reader. And go for lojack protection. Or get Mobile Broad for a year.

Or we can get a $2500 Thinkpad.

$2500 goes a LONG way in the PC industry.

Mircosoft's ad really nailed it. For your dollar, PCs give you the best deal. If you enjoy getting ripped off, go Mac.

Edit:
Mac buyers are like the folks who buy a Northface Goretex Jacket. You can get a better performing Jacket with the REI label for 3/4 of the price. But people buy the Northface jacket cause, well, it says Northface.

 

Windows: Over priced hardware that supports crappy OS full of bugs and viruses. Only reason is to buy a pc to game really, otherwise what I said above. Have to constantly search for viruses, reinstall windows probably once every 4-6 months or so, defragment once every 1-2 weeks, watch out for viruses basically look behind your shoulder every time you d/l something, etc.. too much headache.

Mac: Buy once in every 10 years for the average american with no viruses, bugs, slow downs(defragmenting in windows) and experience the great user interface and be happy.

 

why none of "real" mac users feel ripped off I wonder...I feel ripped off with mu dell,but not macbook...

 

Its because every mac user feels happy and content with their purchase and dont mind paying the extra $$.

PC users just snare at mac users that they saved the $$ while quietly keeping busy fixing bugs, reinstalling windows, searching for viruses, trying to find ways to stop pop ups and basically maintenance.

 

Sure you can get more hardware for your money buying a PC but you get more enjoyment out of a Mac. I didn't need to clean crapware or do a fresh OS install as soon as I got my Mac like I used to on my PCs. I didn't need to spend hours trying to get a network running or share a printer only to have it forgotten a few days later like on my PC. Higher specs do not mean you will get a better experience.

 

Thats scary close to the mark. I was just shopping for a Goretex Jacket yesterday. REI had some nice products but not exactly what I was looking for. I went to Gander Mtn and got a North Face Goretex jacket (for about half what REI was asking). In this case the best price was the best value for me but thats not always the case.

When you compare Premium PC to Premium Mac the prices will get pretty close and to me the OS, support, and Software advantages of the Mac more than make up for that small difference in hardware price.

Thats not everyones value equation but its mine - and apparently the vast majority of personal computer buyers with more than $1000 to spend agree as 60-70% of them buy Macs over all other brands.

 

For those of you who still insist that this is not marketed as a real shopper's experience, here is a link.

 

Funny you should say that, I haven't reinstalled Vista in a very VERY long time. About 4 months into the latest installation of it I decided to search ALL my partitions (All 6 of them) for viruses, didn't find a single one.

The only "maintenance" I do on my computer is cleaning up files when I run out of space. (Files like movies, series I don't watch etc.)

And there is no need to get rid of the so called "crapware" on computers that don't come with any, crapware is not a PC exclusive, it's something that SOME vendors put on the laptops to keep costs down. Just buy a PC with a clean installation and you're good to go. I don't know why people keep saying that PCs are "this and that" when the market is so big that you can't just say one thing and expect it to be true about all computers.

This topic became pointless several days ago, now it's nothing more than the usual crap fanboys post left and right about how MS is the devil, Vista sucks, and how Macs are better and yadda yadda. We've heard all that a million times already, and it doesn't make anyone in here look better. Try to enjoy both instead.

 

i don't understand how someone can be such a windows fanboy. do you really think that you're going to change the minds of people in this forum (especially by insinuating that all mac buyers are dolts)? your knowledge on the subject is not the end-all be-all for laptop users.

EDIT: http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/31/greenpeace-slams-hp-lenovo-and-dell-in-latest-report/

 

I question the validity of this statistic for a few reason. Considering the bulk of laptop purchases are PCs, this stat sounds awful wrong.

Two, when the only Mac you can buy is over 1K, this makes the stat tell little of the buyer's preferences and sensitivity to price.

Three, consider that you can get equivalent PCs for under 1K.

Four, Apple's laptop shipments only account for 10, maybe 20% of all laptop shipments. Which means two things, either less than 40% of all laptop buyers have a budget of less than 1K or that the buyers who had a budget of more than 1K decided not to use the full budget.

Five, ownership cost of a laptop does not equal the shipment cost of a laptop. Service options like on site support and accidental protection are common options for PC purchases over 1K, yet are not factored into the shipment cost of a PC.

This stat just doesn't prove that provided a buyer has a 1k budget, they are 60% - 70% more likely to buy a Mac. All this stat proves, if it is valid and reliable, is 60% of laptop purchases over 1k are Macs. Two very different statements.

 

As long as you have an antivirus installed and DO search for viruses (even though you might not find any) IS still called maintenance. Same thing for defragmenting as well because I know for a fact if you dont defragment, windows will start to slow down to a crawl. I know you can schedule it at certain times when you MIGHT not be using windows but its still a hassle and still maintenance in my book.

Because on a mac I dont do these type of things. And I've used pc's for 18 years and recently switched to mac since 2005.

 

whats an equivalent pc? one that runs os x?

just so you know, the white macbooks with the new nvidia chip can be had for 799 after rebate at microcenter.

 

jjashik, Vista defrags in the background or at night when I'm asleep, been using default settings since I installed the OS, only touched the program twice since then. And just leaving the AV program in the tray does not require much work if any at all. Of course I'm grateful for the lack of viruses on Macs, but if they had 90% of the market things would've been the same on Macs too, no doubt about it.

 

I know it defragments at night time but the thing is (for me) I sleep late around 5am sometimes.. so its what I said, I would have to change the scheduling and its too much of a hassle.

I would LOVE to get a bad a$$ Nehalem desktop for almost half the price of the XEON based Mac Pros that I'm wanting to buy that you see on my sig. But I really really dislike windows. Its just the whole interface and usability seems to slow me down.

To me using OSX is like playing the piano (as if I mastered it). I can brilliantly just go through it. If windows 7 releases and its similar to OSX then maybe I'll give it a chance but for now, I just love OSX too much.

OSX also seems to take care of all the maintenance by itself in the background without me having to lift one finger to check for anything.

I've tried the Hackint0sh route many times.. but in the end it just doesnt feel the same. It feels like I'm running a broken version of OSX.

 

I have had bad experiences with Vista not just on my own computer but 4 that were in my home alone along with 2 at my parent's house and others belonging to friends. I guess I'm just being a fanboy by saying that though? Stop living in denial, perhaps you have had good experiences with Vista but don't knock others for saying what happened to them.

 

Heh, yeah I go to sleep around the same time actually.

Fair enough, I can see why people like OSX. It's an excellent OS and it's definitely right up there with Windows. It's not perfect, but still very very good.

Jervis, I'm not living in denial. I think it's okay to have an opinion, but only if you have some experience to back it up. Far too many hate Microsoft and their software simply because of things they've heard from others, read somewhere etc. And then we have those that just lie about it to make it look bad, those would be called fanboys I guess. If you've had some bad experiences with it, fine, I won't blame you.

 

Fair enough.

 

haha, this reminded me of the day i decided to never use an ms operating system as my main computer. i was sitting in the library around 2am on my hp laptop (using vista, around the time it was launched) writing a paper that was worth 33% of my grade. it was due the next day, obviously. i had written about 3 of the 5-6 pages we were allotted and my laptop just hard-froze. no mouse, no keyboard, no ability to do anything. i was so incredibly pissed off, but though "hey, i bet ms office saved my work."

nope, there was no document recovery. had to start all over.

and then two hours later it happened again, though this time it was a random restart. sure, i blamed myself for not saving often enough but that kind of crap shouldnt happen in the first place.

 

In case you didn't pay attention in marketing class, rarely are loyalists the target of a message. You shoot for the headroom, or the people loyal to neither side, but are willing to buy whatever product that best provides for them.

Its like the issue of gun control. 20% of americans think its an absolute right. 20% think its an absolute wrong. Its the middle you send your message to. You don't send the message to your loyalists, cause they are ALREADY on your side. You don't send your msg to the competitor's loyalists cause it isn't effective.

I don't recall calling anyone "stupid." You may feel insecure as the foundations of your values and beliefs are not what you thought they were. Or you may feel naked or embarassed as the underlying motives of your actions are exposed as something you were not prepared for. There is a story I am trying to remember about a couple of guys in a cave...

BTW, I'm trying to figure out how your link is relevant to the thread. A report by Greenpeace on the progress of electronic companies' progress towards the harmful plastics?


I thought this thread was about Microsoft's commercial. While your link my be relevant in a PC vs Mac thread, this thread is more than that. It's a discussion of the issues that the commercial presents, which include price, OSX, the dynamics of the buyer in an economic downturn, etc etc.

that is a fair point.

 

I used to only use Windows up until 2005. I know what "not to do" to avoid getting any viruses. I mean I ran Dos 1.0 (yes with those OLLLD school floppy disks the long thin ones) windows 1.0, 2.0, and my favorite 3.1, 95, 98, 2000/me, xp, even vista without getting a virus. I know what to do so windows is stable and all of that stuff.

I just prefer OSX due to its stability that the end user doesnt have to deal with + I like its interface, its just so much pleasing to the eyes and to use.

If I was into gaming, I'd definitely would stick with PCs though. Get the bad a$$ hardware and what not while just surfing the net with firefox and just tweaking things.

But over the years I've grown out of gaming and just dont find myself ever doing it. So for everything else and ease of use I just prefer OSX even with inferior hardware as to the PCs.

And when I DO game, its something thats not very demanding like COD4 or something. Also I own a ps3 and an xbox 360 to do light online gaming like street fighter 4 or playing NBA 2k9 occasionally.

 

This is kind of a joke. The hardware in a Mac and a PC are exactly the same and people, even Mac, users do not change computers every 10 years.

 

I would think the "average american" that doesnt know much about computers wont upgrade something like 8-10 years. As long as they can surf the net and check their emails they may even keep it as long as the mac or pc ticks.

I mean my dad uses a freaking 12 year old dell to this day. He doesnt know jack about computers only how to check emails or read something online and as long as it still runs, it never crosses his mind to "upgrade."

Their not going to care about windows 98, 2000, xp, vista, 7, or whatever. Even 10 years from now they will run their dell or mac that has the 10 year old os that can still check their email or surf the website with no problems, they'll continue to use it until the machine dies.

Not like us though, I mean we thrive on "the faster" model every year or two. And our sole purpose to upgrade is just because its faster and thats it.

 

Here's a suggestion.

Close this thread. It's pointless.

Mac fans are hardly to be convinced of Windows' fans P.O.V and vice versa.

 

Close the thread?? But I'm learning so much. This is direct observation of why people are willing to spend over 2K on a laptop, that only has a 1 yr warranty. This is mind boggling to me and I am starting to understand.

And when did this thread turn into a brain washing exercise? I have spend zero time convincing Mac users of a Windows fan's POV. Rather it has been a discussion, and I sound like a broken record, of the commercial Microsoft has recently debuted during the NCAA playoffs.

 

well,I currently own 11 PCs and just 1 mac and I don't think that I overpayed or spent 2xmore for it...

 

If you really want to know why people are spending more $$ on a mac theres a simple reason.

Quality. I know you'll be thinking, hardware is better on the pc side, of course it is but most people forget that hardware is just one part of the package and software is actually more important imho.

Its the exact same reasons for any other products that cost more. For example (yes this has been repeated I dont know how many times and I hate this analogy as well) cars. Same thing with guns. I mean a 9mm glock can get the job done just the same as an HK.

But the HK is just so much nicer, better looking/built, last longer, doesnt jam nearly as much as the glock. But it costs alot more.

Hardware wise, if you configure a mac vs. a pc (high end that is) prices on the mac side usually comes up a couple hundred more. But you get the overall better design, experience.

Hell if I had to choose between a KIA vs. a BMW 5 series and say the BMW just costs $3000 more, I'd definitely buy that BMW. Not to mention resale value to upgrade years later.

Same thing with a Rolex costs much more than a swiss army watch. But the Rolex has its better technologies built into it and just costs more but both get the job done.

 

I've been considering closing it, but there does seem to be a few good arguments being thrown around. But of course, once things start going out of hand, I will close it straight away.

 

I didn't think it was that much of a mystery. I think you are skimming instead of reading everything. I know this because you still have not acknowledged that MS is marketing this as a real buyer's experience when it is obviously scripted, even after it being pointed out several times.

 

Ballmer talks about the $500 "Apple Tax" which was the precursor to the ad. Here is an article that blows that statement out of the water. Lets see what kind of rebuttal MS can find to this.

 

Never had those issues. Maybe you can give me some tips and websites to go to so that I can get these viruses. Getting a little board and really need some action. The last time I saw a virus was from a torrent DL about 3 years ago.

On the most part of this thread, I just see a bunch of Apple people venting about a good witty ad. A better discussion would be about how the ad would affect the general public and not the tech dudes on this site for the fact that most everyone on this site is going to be biased toward PC or Mac.

 

Really? 2 of my friends had a virus recently. I think it was from an email or something, either that or it was from the pr0n he watched or some banner he clicked on. Or it could be from limewire, or the soul seek he used to d/l some music.

But then he does d/l things from public torrent sites such as piratebay. Either way his computer boots automatically now at random times. And yes he's tried 2 virus scanners (paid $40 a pop for them), reinstalled windows, formatted everything and he still cant get rid of the virus. Only he can "contain" it but it keeps spreading.

And no there is nothing wrong with his computer, everything is fine. Basically everyone has different experiences. You may have never gotten a virus or in 3 years or whatever but you are not everyone, especially people that are the average Americans that dont know any better. Hell most of those average American users that have little to no knowledge about what is what except that its cheaper dont even know what firefox is.

They think internet explorer is the greatest thing in the world.

And one thing to note, I LOVE Apple products but I HATE those I'm a Mac commercials as well. I know Apple was trying to portray everything in a 30 second commercial what a Mac has to offer as to a PC but the way they did it in that commercial made people that uses a Mac stuck up. I guess in a passive aggressive way.

If only they can make a 2 hour commercial, Apple can explain everything little bit by bit comparisons to why a mac is so much better as to a pc/windows.

 

Tell him to stop going to that pr0n site immediately after he re-installs the OS (which I suspect he didn't do because a standard virus can't survive a hard drive wipe, a BIOS virus can, but no system is safe if it gets in).

 

I think no one is immune to pr0n, IMHHHHHHHHO. LOL.

On the second comment, you can play crysis on a macbook pro just fine, as long as you set it to low to medium settings. Even the highest end gpus cant handle crysis at its highest settings.

But I bet after the guy played crysis he then came to a world of crap for everything else, while the guy with the mbp still managed to play crysis just fine and booted back up to OSX for a heavenly experience for everything else.

 

That article is completely ridiculous. Microsoft just sells software (except for a few things like Xbox & Zune). Software has nearly zero manufacturing cost, so of course their margins are much higher than Apple's. Also, the OS Microsoft sells is just a small part of the price of a Windows-based PC, so Microsoft's margins don't have nearly as much effect on the overall price of a PC as Apple's do on Macs.

 

I think software cost a lot of money to create. It costs just as much from time consuming projects with team effort. It may even cost more actually to develop a whole software than just manufacturing hardware from just cheap parts.

Take consideration to something like a video game, costs millions of dollars just for 1 game. Imagine a software that is created to be more useful for businesses and like that millions of people will use.

 

What? I'm really really sorry about this entire thread for everyone on this forum. Having seen both sides for awhile now, I think its just stupid after awhile.

Here's a point I don't think anyone has really raised. People automatically have different expectations and values. I was raised with a very heavy regard to just how far one dollar can go.

And even though I love tech, and would jump at the opportunity to build a kickass desktop, I'd still find the cheapest way to get there. Now, I have friends who don't give a second thought to shelling out 3,000+ easily on a new laptop. I can never understand their reasoning especially when they don't even do any advanced functions. But, if I was given the opportunity to buy a Macbook Pro versus a relatively cheaper comparable laptop, I'd definitely go for the cheaper option. Call me cheap, but that's how my values are. I appreciate OSX, and having used the older Macbooks and the newer MBPs, they are really nice pieces of equipment. However, would I ever see the need to shell out the money required to buy one? No, unless I got to the point where the money in my bank vault in my basement is overflowing!

I understand and see how OSX could raise my productivity levels, but do I really care enough to just buy a laptop catering to that one thing? Not really, especially (though obviously I'm not a newbie when it comes to computing by far) when I can save money and go with something cheaper which in this case comes with Windows since I can do everything I can do in Windows as in OSX. Though obviousy, the average consumer might have a bit more difficulty than me using Vista or even XP all the time.

I think the average consumer probably shares my viewpoint, though I can't be sure. I think the ad does a great job in addressing people like me.

Also, your comment about playing Crysis on a PC is just stupid and dumbfounded. Your running Windows on your MBP to even play it in the first place? How does that make it different than running Crysis on any PC laptop, except for the fact that he can REBOOT and go into another OS...?

 

I don't think gross margin includes product development costs (meaning writing software or designing a computer). I think it just includes the per-unit costs... mainly, manufacturing (printing discs, boxes, etc.) and customer service. But... even if I'm wrong about that, the sheer number of copies of Windows sold would make the gross margin very high, since once developed, it costs almost nothing to make extra copies, and Microsoft sells a whole lot of copies of Windows.

 

You mean software has no direct costs. And of course, gross margins are only half the story. For example, R&D is an indirect cost, yet it cuts into your profits. So the 81% is not profit, but just gross margins.

I think the thread has gotten away from the commercial and has strayed into a PC vs Mac fistfight.

This sums some of the thread.

 

I don't see how anyone could have predicted that.

But I think part of the problem is that a lot of the posts in this thread are arguing about whether Macs are or aren't overpriced. But I don't see the commercial as being about that... I don't think it really addresses that question. I think it just points out that Apple doesn't really have much selection when it comes to budget options (especially for buyers who prefer a larger-screen laptop). The question of whether the extra capabilities and amenities of a 17-inch Macbook Pro are or aren't worth the extra $2100 (over the budget 17" HP laptop) to professional users isn't really addressed in the ads IMO.

 

I agree to some degree on what you said. But either way Macs can run windows now and why not boot up windows to play a game or two for a little while and boot back to OSX? He can and he will.

I mean I could make the same argument that the PC guy cant boot into OSX himself but the guy with the macbook pro can boot any OS he chooses? You know?

I understand your perspective of the value of the dollar but like you said everyone isnt the same.

We have it better than most of the world and I am lucky enough to even by a mac mini thats on my sig.

I do agree that Apple do go far by charging too much on top of what they were used to charging. In this case the Mac Pro desktops. I dont see why they are charging so much more compared to the last generation models, especially the baseline octos costing $3299 instead of the $2799.

I'm not rich, I'm just an enthusiast and with every enthusiasts comes dedication of supporting that hobby.

I dont use computers to make a living, but I do use them to make my life better, more productive and fun as well.

I mean a computer comes and goes and if you really had to make it last, I'm sure you can make use of a pc or a mac for 8 years if you had to, especially with the type of technology that has been released lately (dual, quad, 8 cores, virtual 16 cores!!) that hasnt even been properly tapped into yet.

I mean you can probably buy at least a core 2 duo machine now and still use it for basic needs for the next 10+ years if you have to. Especially by then there will be a superior OS from both sides (windows or OSX) that will take more advantage of the processors, instruction sets, multitheading, etc...

I think this is what Apple wants to do with their Snow Leopard. The one thing I do love about Apple is that even when your on a much slower hardware, their newer software always runs and even at most times the newer OS runs even more efficiently and better than the previous.

I mean people from a 5-6 year old powerbooks can run leopard just fine and for some runs even more efficient than what tiger had to offer.

Try running windows vista or windows 7 on a pentium m/celeron laptop. I mean good luck with that ya know?

I think people forget what Apple is really about. Its more of a software company than anything. Sure their hardwares are on par with most PC parts but then they do work extra for the design which I do agree its very nice. Basically your paying for hardware, design, software (mostly though).

With every OSX there are new updates and once you get that update it feels like they are perfecting each version as each updates come in. I just love that about Apple. When they said they fixed this issue, it really runs that much better right after the update. I know windows have service packs but to me they are just hefty updates that cures some errors to some gamers out there that will address some gaming issues.

But my point is that Apple just caters to their customers by updates that you really see the improvements in real life from the moment you install the updates and reboot. It feels on a personal level of customer satisfaction.

I dont want to break my bank either and I want to save up for the future. Especially with this economy and all but I think some people can afford a 3k notebook/desktop from Apple to last 4-5 years. I mean whats $3k in 5 years. You can always make more money.

I guess you can argue it in two ways. There are arguments of saving too much (what if you die early an unexpected accident and you never got to enjoy the luxuries of life) and hey you live once kinda deal. But there should be some boundaries I believe for overspending, basically spending more than you can afford (which is the United States real problem IMHO).

I even know friends or cousins maxing out credit cards left and right (10k+) and not even thinking twice about it just paying off the minimum and living life that way, which is no way to live. I always save up and buy something that I really want and enjoy it while that lasts. Actually in the case of Apple products its kind of like a lease, you start out paying a lot for the product but if you upgrade every 2-3 years, the resale value is so good that you can sell it for almost half of what you paid and pay an equivalent amount of a brand new pc difference for the newest mac and have best of everything.