*Official ASUS W90Vp Owners' Lounge*

Downclocked 4850's. 4850 = RV770 with GDDR3. 4870 = RV770 with GDDR5.

It's not a knock on Asus specifically, just a general disappointment that ATI and thus Asus chose to release Mobility 4870's without one of the desktop 4870's biggest strengths.

 

Lol dont sweat it striker what you have is a nice rig man . The mobile 9800gtx is around a 9600GSO desktop card and i never heard the word imitation being thrown around those parts . its a mobile card and theres going to be some things that differ, but as time gos on they will get better and im sure when a mobile 4870 card hits with GDDR5 and 1gig of ram it wont be called a 4870 when they can throw some new badge on it and market it as something new .

 

ATI used GDDR5 from Qimonda for their reference cards and Qimonda has been mass producing GDDR5 since May of 2008.

If ASUS uses Samsung for their RAM modules it would explain why the W90's are using inferior GDDR3...and that would enforce the claims that the W90 was rushed to market since they didn't wait for Samsung to supply them with GDDR5.


http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/VirtualPressRoom/0,,51_104_543_15944~129750,00.html

 

You're not getting it at all.

The 4850 and 4870, like any card name, are performance designations based on a certain core GPU. They are both RV770. 4850 is RV770 with certain clocks and GDDR3. 4870 is RV770 with certain clocks and GDDR5.

The Mobility 4870 is RV770 with GDDR3. So in terms of specifications, it is closer to the 4850 naming than a 4870 name.

That is all we're saying.

 

Well AMD themselves seemed to have finalized the specs for the Mobility 4870 according to what someone hyperlinked already. Seems that it changed from 680mhz core, 700mhz memory initially to 550mhz core and 888mhz memory. Also, the Asus cards are based on the M98 platform (256bit GDDR3), and even confirms this via GPU-Z. The GDDR5 version of the 4870 will be based on the M98XT platform (256bit GDDR5).

 

No Striker's right...I'm saying ASUS is lying to consumers and people shouldn't buy a W90 until they offer 4870s with GDDR5.

 

Or just tell you that it's GDDR3 then people keep buying them...

If they tell you what you are getting then it's not a problem.

 

did you do have disk method?

hahaha. im in love with the idea of full system over clocking.

yeah, that's what happen with the ocz whitebook and if it wasn't for a few people willing to take the time to make it work, like the few 3870 modders.. E wrecked for one. the AW people would still be pretty much driverless
it's no different. the 4800 owners are consider driverless as well....and now you got a few people willing to try to make the drivers work, but not all of us have mobile 4870/4850 cards. so the more people willing to help test and try to perfect some working drivers....the better your chances are of getting a full working product... . just the way it is at the moment....

as for the gddr5 thing...im sure that wont be the cheap version of that laptop either. it's gonna cost. and that's even if they have a valid working prototype.

 

Popped in a Blu-Ray earlier, and it played just fine. 33% CPU usage using the Asus software. Picture is nice, but I wish someone hadn't pointed out the backlight bleeding on the bottom of the screen as it was kind of distracting. I added the Sony OptiArc drive. BTW, it was a PITA getting the faceplate off the original drive. The tab in the center didn't want to let go.

 

No, but I suppose I could try it. I tried it with the 9.2's, but it didn't work. Not sure why it would with these, but I'll give it a go.

 

firebird and I got the 9.2's to install but he's getting a Code 43 error on the 2nd GPU. A quick Google search turns up many other Crossfire users who have this same problem across different brands and card models. We're still trying to hammer down just what's causing it and how to fix it.

 

I don't think Asus is the liar, probably AMD is lying about the architecture (But that's all the business about)
But anyhow, Mobile always lose to desktop card (except, well, Some intergrated chipset with another integrated chipset), even some architecture change (basing on lower end model, maybe)
GDDR3 or 5, no matter, as long as it still can play well (well, energy might be another issue), size of ram may become other issue
And, any feature to share ram with main memory?

 

well....these are modded so they may or may not install one way or the other....
and since no one is a 4800m expert anything as of yet..all we have are members willing to trial and error it till we can find some type of temporary or permanent working driver.


and with the have disk method, you would try to install one card at a time. you can also try to install the slave card first and then the master card. you can try to enable crossfire before rebooting the computer to see if it does anything.
watch the install process closely to see if it pops uo the little red box for a new driver install. you can try to install it under safe mode as well. you can also try to disable one card or make sure both cards are really enabled....

it's quite a few things to try...

im guessing that code 43 means the second card didn't fully install or the files could be corrupted during the install process...(speculation)

 

Catalysts, Windows UAC, and unsigned drivers are a nightmare. One thing firebird didn't try was installing the drivers on the 2nd listed card first, so that's an idea.

I had a miserable time getting Catalyst 9.2's working in W7 (I lump Vista in the same boat due to UAC / Unsigned drivers) on my desktop so it's even tougher on this notebook I'm sure.

dondadah88 used the drivers I linked on his Crossfire 3870's and it installed perfectly with no problems.

 

yeah bill, all these things are ideas. i would have definitely tried them all and some ones i would never have thought of..

one of the first rules in getting a new laptop...make sure you don't go getting to use to it for the first 2 weeks. that's the trial break in period. make sure everything works. you are subject to a few installs or system restores. uninstalls and re installs.

i disable that uac from the get go. as soon as the system is up and running the first time. and 64 bit and the unsigned is a nightmare to say the least, but it can be turned off.

 

I had to turn it off on mine in order to patch my TCPIP.sys maximum concurrent half-open connections limit, and even disabling it was a mess.

 

AMD/ATI creates the reference design for the cards but does not stop partners from making modifications to them.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/...rs_to_Design_Own_High_End_Graphics_Cards.html


ASUS is a manufacturing partner that builds their own cards around the GPU purchased from ATI and what appears to be going on is they're using GDDR3 instead of GDDR5 because that's what Samsung has available.

The result is a Mobility 4870 with lower specs than ATI's Mobility 4870 reference design and isn't much better than existing Mobility 4850s.

 

what does it slow down?

well they did advertise both specs of the 4870. 1 512 version and a 1 1gig version.
they never said exactly which one was going to who/where/when or why.

 

The average user does not need to patch it; seeding 1,200 torrents however is not average use ("Linux distros"), hence my need.

 

Yeah I think a lot of confusion was caused by ATI referencing the specs of the 4850 and 4870 collectively as the 4800 series using "GDDR5 or GDDR3 based on model."

That kind of language leaves it open to different interpretations but it's a weak excuse for not using GDDR5.

 

Well, it looks like I spoke to soon. Everything was running great. I put it into hibernate mode to move to the living room and upon restarting it, I was greeted with a wonderful BSOD. I restarted the computer but as soon as the desktop comes up, everything freezes.

I rebooted and did the F9 install and everything seems to be good in the world again. I seem to remember -=$tR|k3r=- mentioning two things that should be uninstalled to insure smooth runnings, but I can't remember what they are. Can anyone refresh my memory?

Thanks.

 

I installed the 9.2's through Device Manager and am also getting Error 43. Back to the drawing board...

 

BTW, I did the install for each device (did the secondary first) before restarting.

 

I think it's no coincidence that the first 2 notebook manufacturers to release Mobility 4800 parts are also the only the only 2 notebook manufacturers who are also ATI board partners. MSI and Asus are both desktop board partners for ATI so they are the only 2 retailers who will be manufacturing these boards in-house. Asus (Like MSI) can do whatever they want with the clocks / memory since it's coming from their own boards.

 

Just reinstalled the drivers off the CD on top of the 9.2's. The error went away, and 9.2 is still reported in CCC, even though the package reported is from the CD.

 

Can you post a GPU-Z screenshot?

 

Nevermind. Just compared CCC to my desktop, which has the 9.1's on it. It reinstalled the old drivers, but it's still reporting 9.2. Sorry to jump the gun.

 

that's what i thought, but wasn't sure....
in that case...the more the merrier..lol

no loss. it's what they stated for the 4870's. a few of us already knew they we're having issues with the high end 4870's, so to meet their...err...ummm...show time deadline...they shipped the low end version. eta on the high end version could be a myth at this point or it's the dual 4870 gpu pcb board that has the gddr5 memory. (of course it's more speculation) since they show a picture of a 4870 with 4x4 chips in a row on the board, which would mean it's a 1 gig board. probably their prototype which was not meeting the heat issue.(speculation of course)

 

hi,

would one of the w90 owners be so kind, and run the ram-benchmarks of everest?
should not take more of 3 or 4 minutes of your time.
thanks a lot.

 

@real
I'm not sure they can with all the locks-up
Just wait for awhile till it is fixed

 

this test is not related to the vga-drivers, so i assume it wont cause a lock up

 

That's true, yet looking at the issue right now, some lappies here just won't even boot properly, and I don't think (until the problem solved) they gonna bench with anything again...
CMIIW
Just to edit
Anybody use linux on their W90? Wonder if it is really the driver problem, can linux become a solution?

 

well the point is that ...

they dont make games like crysis and farcry 2 etc etc for linux do they ???

 

yeah right, maybe try to use WINE or something like that...
Just wonder if the problem is gone...
Maybe play HD video or use quite strong game in Linux may do...

For driver, I just realize that the driver in Linux is even older, thus open to incompatibility (only using generic driver)... The proprietary driver must wait to the producer, and AMD doesn't provide Mobile Driver, I suppose

 

Just a post of my email this morning back to the ASUS tech team via their support site. I also have a ticket with the phone support which I will follow up with today as well. I really hope today is the day for the drivers..I WANNA GAME!!! WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA:

Hello,

I have followed your instructions below and am still experiencing the same issues. It is my understanding that your company is working on a new set of drivers to resolve this issue. Could you provide me with any information you may have on this subject as in it's current state the laptop is unusable to me. Today will be a week from when I received the unit and I haven't been able to use it due to this malfunction/defect.

Thank You.



---------- Original Message ----------
From:ASUS TSD
To:********@udren.com
Date:2009-03-04 17:46:03



Hello,

Try to boot up in Safe Mode, once in Safe Mode uninstall the turbo VGA enhanced driver from the system. Once removed you should be able to boot into the OS and then reinstall the turbo VGA enhanced driver. Once this is complete the system should allow for normal operation of both the ATI and VGA enhanced driver. Make sure to do this from a fresh install from the recovery image using F9.

To date, we are only shipping the unit with GDDR3 and not GDDR5.

To help us better assist you, please provide feedback at:

http://sip.asus.com/Survey/Questionnaire/Survey_2008030463833.aspx


Regards,

RL
ASUS Notebook Technical Support


---------- Original Message ----------
From : *******@udren.com
Sent : 3/2/2009 7:10:46 AM
To : "[email protected]"
Subject : <TSD> Notebook W90VP



[CASEID=************]



Apply date : 3/2/2009 6:35:20 AM

[Contact Information]
*Name : Rich
*Email Address : ********@udren.com
Phone Number : ***********
City : Audubon
*Country : United States

[Product Information]
*Product Type : Notebook
*Product Model : W90VP
*Product S/N : *********
Place of Purchase : Newegg
*Date of Purchase : 2009/2/20

*Operating System : Vista 64bit

[Problem Description]
System locking requiring power button hold to shut down.
Windows is reporting it is the video drivers. There are no new drivers available and I am
aware that this is an issue from reading the forums at Notebookreview.com

I have not done the F9 restore and I still am operating "out of the box". It is my
understanding that this restore did not correct the issues that fellow forum members
and owners of this same system who are having with the lockups.

Also if I use the Turbo Gear to overclock, my system becomes unstable, even at the
smallest increments. I am not sure if this is related to the above issue

Another concern is that the company that I purchased the unit from, Newegg, is now
showing that the same system at the same price is shipping with GDDR5.
I have not had this unit for a week and have GDDR3. Could you verify if there are
W90VP's shipping with the GDDR5?

Thank you for your time and anticipated response.

 

Hey guys, it looks like NewEgg has an ETA of 3/27/2009 for the W90 to return to inventory. Do you think this is due to the problems you are having and that this is sort of like an estimated release date like MS and some game software mfgrs. use tentatively? I would tend to believe that this issue gets resolved, and W90's magically appear for sale within 2-3 days...
I want one, but I don't want any new headaches.

 

The info I saw re: the dual-gpu 4800 reference card was that it was a 4850x2 being developed at the request of an unknown manufacturer...could be ASUS but I don't believe it's for the W90. A 4850x2 would use 1GB of RAM.

I'm convinced the use of GDDR3 on the W90's cards was a supply issue and not the heat issue that's being reported with the Whitebook/M17. ASUS uses Samsung video ram on their cards and Samsung is just starting to produce GDDR5.

Saying there are low-end and high-end versions of the 4870 is all just sugar-coating and it would be just as justifiable calling these cards Mobility 4855 or Mobility 4850+.

 

hummm, or a nice way of saying...ati pulled a fast one. but no one wants to hear that...

 

Well at least NewEgg corrected their typo....It's now advertised correctly as GDDR3.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834220503


***So we can now safely talk those folks off the ledge that felt a possibly dupe was in the works where they bought GDDR3 when GDDR5 was on the next truck.

 

from ati's website

9ATI Mobility Radeon™ HD 4870 (680e/700m GDDR5, 1GB) up to 1.8x faster performance over ATI Mobility Radeon™ HD 3870 (660e/850m GDDR3, 512MB).

With more than twice the processing power of previous generation AMD discrete graphics cards3, ATI Mobility Radeon™ HD 4800 Series graphics deliver a cinematic gaming experience and unprecedented performance. ATI CrossFireX™ technology multi-GPU capabilities deliver the power of one teraFLOPs1. The 800 stream processors with GDDR5 or GDDR3 memory propel you deep into your gameplay with seamless frame rates at high resolutions.

haven't seen a card with any of that high spec stuff yet....except for them 800 sp's

 

I wouldn't point the finger at ATI.

ATI doesn't build the cards for the W90 they only supply ASUS the GPU....since ASUS manufactures their own cards they would be to blame for not using Qimonda's available GDDR5 like ATI did on the reference boards.

 

Yeah I referenced that at least twice already in this thread.

 

Maybe Asus decrease the power so that it won't be that hot...
2 PCB of Graphic card produce lots of heat

 

well there is more to that and when these 4870s came out...i pointed that out and people we're like...oh no..not ati. there honest. they wouldn't pull an nvidia...and low and behold...it's either that or some prototype projections going on...lol

and that pcb board is a standard cut board so it could have just as well been ati that ship it to them. even though asus can design their own once they have the gpu...


nothing personal, but if i order it and it didn't come with what it was suppose to....it would have gotten sent back after i tested it for about a week.

flip side yet again....

that is probably why it doesn't cost that much.

 

Those pictures viilutaja provided the link for shows the ASUS branding on the pcb itself.

 

so ummm... what exactly are you getting at mr phinagle?
other than who might have made the pcb board. still has no baring as to why 680/700/teraflop/800sp/1gig after they advertised it card hasn't shown up yet. i mean i know you feel very strongly about the gddr5 and all, but it just aint out yet. and ati does have gddr5 memory chips. so why not make the board? there are more venders than just asus looking to run ati cards right?
is asus the one programming this board or something?
do they reprogram the gpu themselves? or by changing the memory it changes the speed?

way to many what ifs and speculation with this scene...guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens...


wish they would have shown the die since it's right there. that might have answered a few questions....

 

I just hope that the growing number of lengthy posts here debating ATI, ASUS, whomevers decission and/or reason to utilize GDDR3 instead of GDDR5 in what is currently being called an ATI mobility 4870 does not detract from the W90 itself.

Maybe it's a slight change of pace from the "my W90 locks up" posts and once ASUS gets us a fix we can start the process of figuring out how to get the most out of the W90 however these discussions are becoming a big tangent that imo are not adding any value to this thread to which might have a better home in the Gaming (Graphics Cards) forum.


The fact is the ASUS W90Vp-X1 GPUs come with GDDR3 like it or not thats what we have to work with for now.

 

and it's almost noon here and I still don't have new drivers! At least my tv tuner from Newegg just arrived. That should keep me busy for about 10 mins while I install, then back to refreshing this post every 2 mins

 

It could be that but more likely IMO is that at least some of the parts in these machines are on restricted allocation and at this point ASUS may be putting them all into production of the W90Vp-A1 which is due to be released in about 10 days.

But that, too, may be a good news story for the X1; small resellers like GenTech are NOT going to be happy dealing with the issues this computer has experienced and returns and/or unhappy customers are far more significant to them than a much larger volume retailer like NewEgg. One would think Xotic & GenTech have both been on the phone to ASUS saying "don't ship me those things until they work right!" I would hope so, anyway.

 

i know that the asus's are having problems but my scores are still pretty close to there for some reason.