Any updates on the XPS 16 heating/ throttling issue?

Can the 250 watt power adapter used by the M17x can also be used for the SXPS 16? and if so would that solve are problems or in order to use those extra watts it has to be enabled ny the bios

 

You need bios support for any adapter above 130 watts so without Dell doing that, any adapter greater than 130 watts will be limited and you won't see any advantage.

 

Can someone please test if running video with HDMI out make the computer throttle after some period of time?

What about running VM's in heavy use with VirtualBox,Vmware or Hyper-V?

Tks.

 

Does a 130W adapter make the laptop's temp hotter overall than a 90W adapter (I think someone said this)?

 

Yes and No. The laptop will run hotter when it is using more than 90 watts, but it will not use more than 90 watts unless it is required to properly run.

 

What's the first bios that supported the 130W adapter? A06? I'm going back to that bios

 

Why is that?

 

Couple pages back:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/del...-heating-throttling-issue-47.html#post6507989

I'm currently on A03, gonna see if it's better

 

Just played Starcraft 2 for about 3 hours. AND IM SO HAPPY NO THROTTLING

Temps never passed 75c for cpu or 79 for gpu.

 

Same here but it still throttles!!!!!!!!
What bios are you using?

 

Then i think it maybe the power issue. When i dont need it i shut off the keyboard lights and i turn the screen down 2 from max so they are not taking power. Give that a try and see if you still throttle

I am running A09.

 

It's not a power issue. As said before even on external LCD the problem persists. Also, if you click the link I posted above, you can see on the screenshot i'm not even running any games/programs and that my CPU is idle.
Still, it throttles.

Anyway, on A03 same problem.
Thing is, I cannot re-create the problem by running wPrime right after the throttling starts.
It seems my GPU is causing my CPU to throttle, somehow

 

Okai! More news.
I'm now running wPrime 1024 and it doesn't throttle.
I then boot furmark and INSTANTLY the throttling starts when i press a key

Whuuuuuuut

edit: just running furmark will now throttle my CPU ....
I'm on the GPU drivers from Dell's site like unclewebb recommended but nothing's changed

 

By installing the official Dell drivers, now Dell can't complain that you are using unapproved drivers.

The throttling is mostly designed to control power consumption. When you start using Furmark, the GPU starts consuming a lot of power. Dell discovered that the easiest way to handle this problem is to throttle the CPU. Intel makes it dead simple to throttle the CPU. A couple of simple lines of code is all it takes. A high school kid would have no trouble writing a Mickey Mouse throttling scheme like what is being used on these laptops.

All of these laptops are on the edge of throttling but for whatever reason, your laptop must be drawing a few more watts than average or your power adapter is not as efficient or some other minor thing and the result is a lot more throttling than many users experience with the same hardware. CPUs and GPUs, even with the exact same model number, do not consume the exact same amount of energy. They all vary a little.

Have you ever tried running an external keyboard? I think I remember there was a keyboard driver issue in the early days. You had to go into stand by mode and then do a resume from stand by to make this bug go away.

 

Thanks for your time btw !

This explanation would perfectly fit if the problem would go away when I either:

1) run on battery

2) close furmark/wprime

or

3) use an external screen

However,
unplugging my 130W adapter does not fix the problem.
Also, the CKMOD will remain below 100% for several minutes after i've closed all power-consuming applications.
Finally, even using an external screen did not fix it.

For me this proves it is not a power issue, but either a serious programming bug or some weird overheating issue.
Why else would the problem only start after 15minutes and why else does it take 5min for the problem to go away?
I have not tried using an external keyboard because i haven't got one atm.

 

No one claims that Dell's throttling algorithm is any good. In my opinion, it's very poorly thought out and implemented.

That quote comes from tinkerdude's research into Dell's original throttling Latitude E6500 series.

throttlegate.pdf

When you read his report from last July, you will see a lot of similarities between his laptop and the throttling your laptop is doing. It also shows an engineering team that couldn't write a throttling scheme to save its life. Dell has made some improvements in many of their models since that disaster but even so, once throttling is triggered, for whatever reason, it can get left on for way too long.

Power consumption plays a big part in triggering throttling but I agree that there are other factors too. Only Dell knows the exact formula they use. If you want to test some more then buy a Kill-a-Watt meter and I think you'll see a strong correlation between power consumption at the wall and the start of throttling.

To answer your questions:

1) On battery power you can still have Dell using power consumption based throttling on your laptop.

2) Closing Furmark/Prime95 won't make throttling instantly go away. If it was properly designed, it should go away immediately when you returned to idle, but it doesn't.

3) An external screen will reduce power consumption but that still might not be enough to get under the throttling threshold for your laptop.

Just curious. When you reboot your laptop and give it a couple of minutes to fully boot up, if you start running Prime95 and Furmark at the same time, how long does it take to throttle. I don't think it will last anywhere close to 15 minutes. This amount of power consumption should put it over the line almost immediately and trigger throttling soon after.

The only fix is for Dell to replace the power adapter, CPU and motherboard. You might get lucky but there still might be some throttling. That's how this model was designed. It's a fact that the 130 watt adapter and the latest bios does not 100% eliminate throttling. Some users like yourself are far worse off than others.

 

I thought about the fact that dell would allow the 1645 to throttle for a longer period than necessary just to be safe. However I thought it was unlikely and something for beta-stage testing.

There's still one thing i don't understand: Why would power consumption after 15minutes of TF2 be more than after 5min of TF2? It doesn't make any sense and I don't see how this could be a power issue.

Also like I said before, on a cold day with the window open I can play for more longer.

I'll reboot and run prime95+furmark and see how long it takes.
brb

 

Wow, perhaps you were right.. This is what happened

Code:

  DATE     TIME    MULTI   C0%   CKMOD  CHIPM  DTS  GPU
07/28/10 01:07:01  19.34   12.6  100.0  100.0   38    66
07/28/10 01:07:05  13.00   87.6  100.0  100.0   32    66
07/28/10 01:07:08  12.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   31    66
07/28/10 01:07:12  11.70  100.0   87.5  100.0   32    66
07/28/10 01:07:16  12.01   91.8   37.5  100.0   27    76
07/28/10 01:07:20  12.36   71.2  100.0  100.0   27    76
07/28/10 01:07:23  12.06   90.7  100.0  100.0   25    76
07/28/10 01:07:27  12.00  100.0   12.5  100.0   24    76
07/28/10 01:07:30  12.03   95.8  100.0  100.0   24    81
07/28/10 01:07:34  12.00  100.0   12.5  100.0   23    81
07/28/10 01:07:39  12.15   75.9  100.0  100.0   28    81
07/28/10 01:07:43  12.27   72.6  100.0  100.0   21    81
07/28/10 01:07:46  12.00  100.0  100.0  100.0   20    81

Almost immediately throttling started!
I could understand that prime95+furmark throttles my laptop.. But tf2 on low settings?

Still I don't understand why it runs fine for 15minutes and then throttles - if it were a power problem.

 

Power consumption is just one factor. In some bios versions GPU temperature is also a big factor. The GPU temperature can trigger throttling all by itself and power consumption can trigger throttling all by itself and I'm sure there is some magic formula that some sort of combination of power consumption and high GPU temperatures can also trigger throttling. With higher power consumption, it's likely that throttling will being at a lower GPU temperature.

Dell is never going to share their exact formula. All that's important is that this laptop still throttles and performs at a lot less than its rated speed when it does start throttling and this goes on for too long after the CPU and GPU have returned to idle.

We're kind of beating a dead horse. I know it throttles, you know it throttles and Dell knows it throttles and Dell wants to continue to deny this as much as possible so they don't have to replace too many laptops or make too many house calls.

 

Code:

07/28/10 01:07:12  11.70  100.0   87.5  100.0   32    66

The GPU is only at 66C and the CPU is at 68C (100-32) and already we have the first sign of throttling. As I said, power consumption plays a big part in this. As soon as you go over that limit, throttling begins. That clearly proves that in this example, temperature is not a factor at all.

A clock modulation setting of 12.5% when combined with a 12 multiplier means your CPU is running at only 12.5% of its Intel rated speed.

 

So maybe it's a combination of both. It's on the edge of the 130W adapter and when it gets too hot -> throttling.

Anyway, when it turn off TS, or at least the 13x multi setting, this is what happens:

Code:

  DATE     TIME    MULTI   C0%   CKMOD  CHIPM  DTS  GPU
07/28/10 01:19:48  10.50  100.0  100.0  100.0   15    93

Instead of maintaining the 12x multi, it goes to 10.5x multi.
Throttling, yes. But I think this throttling will be much less significant than clock modulation

 

You can click on the Disable Turbo option in ThrottleStop to give you the 12 multiplier and it won't go any higher than that because there will be no turbo boost. If that keeps clock modulation turned off then go with that setting while gaming.

Clock modulation is brutal. Adjust ThrottleStop any way you can to keep clock modulation turned off.

I'm not sure if there is a temperature sensor within the power adapter itself. Either that or the efficiency of the adapter changes as it heats up which might help explain why under some loads it can be good for say 15 minutes before puking.

Maybe put your adapter in the freezer when testing. One Alienware M17x tester was doing this. Of course, he also put his whole laptop in the freezer beside the frozen broccoli to see what it could do.

 

It wasn't the most scientific test, but I proved that the XPS 1645 (at least mine) has both problems with both heat AND power, barring the exception that the increased heat causes significantly more power to be drawn due to needing more power for the the increased fan speed.

 

Wow, CPU and GPU at 75 and 79 and under during gaming... this makes the XPS a legend... I really wonder why 50% of people are getting heat problems...

My i7-720QM laptop with a Nvidia GT 240M GPU had max temps of 98C and 95C... but I am in a hot country... but this lappy has a side vent which is not obstructed!

Now I want the XPS 16... if only it came with the OS Installation disc

 

It does come with an OS installation disk.

 

I can confirm that unselecting multi x13 in TS has resulted in less significant throttling. Now, only my multi goes down a little instead of the CKMOD.
I recommend only to use multi x13 if you're certain it will not throttle

 

Hey guys, I decided to try the screen vent trick, and my laptop hasn't throttled in a game since. My load temps (CPU, GPU and seems like even the HDD) are reduced by 5C+. In most cases the load temps are reduced only 5 or 6C, but Furmark by itself is 10C less. Normally I would hit 100C (100C is my GPU's throttle point) before 20 minutes, but now I was only at 90C after 20 minutes. Now, instead of being hot as hell, it is 10C less than hot as hell

I still get throttling in Prime+Furmark (min brightness) but it takes twice as long and it's not as bad. See the attached log (please note, I did not run the test longer than the log shows- didn't cut out any part). I realize this isn't the ultimate fix everyone wants, but it is so easy and helped me out. I know I have said other values in the past, but it seems as though CPU throttling on XPS 1645 BIOS A09 occurs at 83C, or if there isn't enough power, and the only way my particular computer doesn't get enough power is Prime+Furmark at a medium or high brightness.

For those of you who want to try this, just unscrew the 10 or so screws on the bottom of your laptop. Then remove that panel, turn it upside down (the screws had a locking mechanism to not fall out). There are screen-like vents on the holes. Take a look my picture if you want. I removed the 2 big ones and left the little one by the memory. These are dust filters, so the laptop may get slightly more dusty, only time will tell.

I'll keep everyone updated if any game throttles.

 

Nice, however I still believe the biggest bottleneck is the output airflow rather than input

 

Not really. When i set on a desk my temps are as low as i said. But i play on my lap i get throttling because my gpu hits 90 and cpu 87. Its all about airflow. I didn't experiencing throttling on my 1640 until about 1 month ago and i had it over a year. Now im not experiencing any throttling on my 1645 i guess i just got lucky. But i still have a big black spec of dust under neath my screen That i haven't been lucky about lol i think this is the 4th time

And for anyone who doubts me . This is a screenshot after 3 hours of Starcraft 2.

 

!! It's now throttling BOTH multiplier and CKMOD!??!!!!!
12.5% of 1330 mhz i'm running at 166mhz effectively!!!!!!!!

 

Even with turbo disabled it cannot maintain 100% CKMOD.... i f*cking hate dell

 

One interesting thing that your second screen shot shows is one thread at 87.5% clock modulation while the other threads are at 12.5%. Intel recommends that when software needs to use clock modulation, all cores and threads should be modulated equally. Dell can't even do that right.

 

So I placed one of these USELESS usb fans with the blades right on top of the vent-output (let's say over the power button)



Look at the log what happened <--- 2hour TF2 run.
No CKMOD throttling, and multiplier 12x. (that's what i set it on with TS).
And my GPU temp stayed <80c! where before it would go to 100c!

@unclewebb
Btw, if you set 12x multiplier in TS, and untick the box, it will still not go above 12x multiplier. Maybe something to look into?

Anyway I think it's obvious that it's temp related as well..!

 

WTH is going on.
Look at my log now.. very high temps and now it works fine..even with reasonable turbo!!! and no throttling!
?!?!?

And now im not even using the fan

 

Don't ever reboot that computer. That's how a laptop is supposed to run. No throttling even with the CPU and GPU up over 90C.

 

List all your specs. Bios, Video Card Drivers, Turbo boost on/off.
etc.

Something must have worked.

 

I have not changed anything since

 

Maybe your power adapter has been sending your computer a false signal and telling your laptop that it is over loaded, which would cause it to start throttling. Maybe this sensor has finally crapped out and it's not sending a bad signal anymore. Maybe it's open season now and you can finally run your laptop at full speed. Lock your doors so no one steals your laptop or power adapter.

 

Still throttles to 10-11 multi with prime95+furmark though

 

That is the normal amount of throttling for an XPS 1645 / i7-720QM / ATI 4670 when running Prime95 + Furmark with the 130 watt adapter. At least the clock modulation isn't killing you like it was. These laptops were never designed to be able to run that load at full speed. You would probably need a 150 watt adapter and a bios update to do that but Dell has no plans to do that.

 

So I just tried another game: heroes of newerth.
The throttling started again like before. However, being an RTS game i used my keyboard a lot less. The weird thing is: If i don't touch a key the game will infinitely run fine at 60fps (with TS ON). So it IS possible to get the laptop to run properly even though dell's algorithm does not seem to think so....

 

Did anyone experience throttling issues with the 1647 with core i5 ?

 

Sigh....

Code:

  DATE     TIME    MULTI   C0%   CKMOD  CHIPM  DTS  GPU
08/10/10 14:42:57   7.00   15.8   25.0  100.0   67    73
08/10/10 14:42:59   7.00   15.3   25.0  100.0   67    73
08/10/10 14:43:00   7.00   16.1   25.0  100.0   67    69
08/10/10 14:43:02   7.00   14.4   25.0  100.0   67    69
08/10/10 14:43:03   7.00   12.2   25.0  100.0   67    69
08/10/10 14:43:04   7.00   13.3   25.0  100.0   67    69
08/10/10 14:43:06   7.00   13.4   25.0  100.0   67    69
08/10/10 14:43:08   7.00   17.4   25.0  100.0   67    70
08/10/10 14:43:09   7.00   18.2   25.0  100.0   67    70
08/10/10 14:43:11   7.00   26.6   25.0  100.0   67    70
08/10/10 14:43:13   7.00   26.2   25.0  100.0   67    70
08/10/10 14:43:14   7.00   18.9   25.0  100.0   66    70
08/10/10 14:43:16   7.00   18.5   25.0  100.0   66    70
08/10/10 14:43:17   7.00   19.2   25.0  100.0   66    70
08/10/10 14:43:18   7.00   15.8   25.0  100.0   66    70
08/10/10 14:43:20   7.00   12.3   25.0  100.0   66    70
08/10/10 14:43:21   7.00   12.6   25.0  100.0   66    72
08/10/10 14:43:22   7.00   12.9   25.0  100.0   66    72
08/10/10 14:43:23   7.00   12.3   25.0  100.0   66    72
08/10/10 14:43:24   7.00   11.3   25.0  100.0   66    72
08/10/10 14:43:26   7.00   11.4   25.0  100.0   66    72
08/10/10 14:43:27   7.00   12.1   25.0  100.0   66    71
08/10/10 14:43:28   7.00   11.3   25.0  100.0   66    71
08/10/10 14:43:29   7.00   10.8   25.0  100.0   66    71
08/10/10 14:43:30   7.00   11.7   25.0  100.0   65    71
08/10/10 14:43:31   7.00   11.2   25.0  100.0   65    71
08/10/10 14:43:32   7.00   11.5   25.0  100.0   65    68
08/10/10 14:43:34   7.00   11.5   25.0  100.0   65    68
08/10/10 14:43:36   7.00   13.5   25.0  100.0   66    68
08/10/10 14:43:37   7.00   14.2   25.0  100.0   65    68
08/10/10 14:43:38   7.00   14.3   25.0  100.0   65    68
08/10/10 15:09:39   7.00   12.8   25.0  100.0   65    68
08/10/10 15:09:41   7.00   11.9   25.0  100.0   65    68
08/10/10 15:09:42   7.00   16.2   25.0  100.0   65    68
08/10/10 15:09:44   7.00   15.0   25.0  100.0   65    68
08/10/10 15:09:46   7.00   24.0   25.0  100.0   65    68
08/10/10 15:09:47   7.00   16.6   25.0  100.0   65    68
08/10/10 15:09:49   7.00   14.5   25.0  100.0   65    68
08/10/10 15:09:50   7.00   17.1   25.0  100.0   65    68
08/10/10 15:09:51   7.00   14.2   25.0  100.0   65    68
08/10/10 15:09:53   7.00   16.9   25.0  100.0   65    68
08/10/10 15:09:54   7.00   18.0   25.0  100.0   65    68
08/10/10 15:09:55   7.00   19.0   25.0  100.0   65    68
08/10/10 15:09:57   7.00   18.6   25.0  100.0   65    68
08/10/10 15:09:59   7.00   18.4   25.0  100.0   65    68
08/10/10 15:10:00   7.00   19.8   25.0  100.0   65    68

 

Whats that?

 

Severe throttling at normal temperatures.

 

is that with BIOS v. A11?

 

No it's with A09 but it would be the same on A11

 

I think everyone with a i7 quad and 4670 will have CPU throttling if pushed to the max, but it seems as though your system is exceptionally bad. Do you get the same results when trying with minimum brightness? Mine gets much better results when set to minimum brightness. Take a look.

 

I have played Star Craft 2 for serveral hours and I so far I seem to be blessed with a throttle free system.

 

Setting the brightness to minimum once the throttling had started does not decrease the throttling. I have to quit the game and wait for 3 minutes before CKMOD goes up.

I've decided to stop using TS except to fix the turbo after sleep/hibernate. (unless he releases the new version)

Once I touch the Multi or CKMOD in TS, it will keep forcing 100% regardless of whether i turn off the setting. When TS prevents my multi from going down the CKMOD will go down causing 1fps.

When i then turn OFF TS, it's too late. I have to turn off the game and wait because dell's algorithm is pathetic and apparently uses the safe-route and waits before going back to normal speeds.