Dell XPS 15 9570 with Geforce 1060 is coming...

I don't know if it actually uses less power than the 1050, that was the first I had heard about such a thing. I strongly suspect there was a flaw in their testing, but would be happy if I was wrong. The cooling on the 7577 was leaps and bounds better than my xps but it's not an ultra thin laptop either...

 

Pascal is just really efficient. It is already really efficient normally, but operating at a more optimal efficiency-wise point it's even more.

Consider the following reviews:
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-...HQ-GTX-1060-Max-Q-Laptop-Review.264134.0.html

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-...5-7300HQ-GTX-1050-Laptop-Review.239720.0.html

Running Witcher 3, even though it is 60% faster, it's only using 6 more watts, and that is not taking into account the fact that the CPU is running at 3.1 instead of 1.8 GHz (Stress test section) and it's using an IPS display instead of TN.

That probably means the GPU itself is not using much more power than the 1050, if at all. That bodes well for the XPS.

One thing tho is that to get MaxQ, nVidia requires that it only goes to 40dBa in gaming, and since the XPS currently is much louder than that they will have to improve the cooling significantly.

 

First leaks of the 8750H and 8850H CPUs, 6 core/12 threads: https://www.anandtech.com/show/1207...on-processor-lists-leaked-coffee-lake-refresh

Seems pretty much confirmed that the new XPS 15 will get a 6 core CPU.

 

Yeah, pretty much everything comfirmed. Hope the Core i3-8300H will be also availbale with 1060maxQ and not just with smaller GPU.

 

Too bad I don't have a killawatt meter because I'd really like to see the power consumption drop between a stock 1050 and undervolted 1050 same clock but 0.933V compared to stock 1.050v....even at 1.000v I can get 1880mhz compared to 1743stock... Thermals are definitely better undervolted but not sure on the power draw

 

You can use HWInfo64

 

The Wattage reported in software packages are very rough and unreliable estimates.

The Killawatt wall meter is a better measurement of power consumption. But since the laptop might draw from the battery it might be more reliable:

- if the battery were disconnected (but...if the laptop uses battery power to boost performance then you are testing a crippled laptop so this is not a valid test)

- if you start with a fully charged battery and run the test for a long time ensuring battery is not go much below fully charged at the end of the test

 

I THINK at least nVidia's power readings should be fairly accurate, since it is based on it's own internal sensors and those are the readings it uses to make sure it stays within TDP. For example, notice here https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_1080_Ti/28.html how the actual readings from all the 10xx cards are fairly close to the maximum estipulated TDP.

 

I'm surprised to hear the 7577 cooling was significantly better. Based upon the service manual diagram ( http://topics-cdn.dell.com/pdf/inspiron-15-7577-laptop_service manual_en-us.pdf), the fan and heatsink setup looks fairly identical between the 7577 and 9560. Its harder to tell from the photos in the above notebookcheck article photos. Is that actually true in reality, especially in 3D depth?

I get that CPU/GPUs have a range of efficiencies and are not always operated in the most ideal range, but this sounds almost too good to be true to me. What you say makes sense; its just surprising to see a 1060 use less power than a 1050 under similar circumstances. Yes, the CPU is way down in the 1050 test, but the GPU clock is slightly up (1708 vs 1481 mhz) and the other factors you mentioned sound plausible. If these results pan out in more tests, I think NVIDIA really did the legwork to find the optimal efficiency point for the chip, which bodes well for a 9570 w/ 1060 maxQ in both power consumption and thermal efficiency.

You could also try batterybar ( http://batterybarpro.com/) to double check the software values. As pressing mentions, its not perfect but I believe it uses battery voltage, so the current readings should be somewhat accurate. At least it'd be a way to compare or average the numbers you get from other software

 

Great! If Dell could made so much better cooling for inspiron 7577, that is mean they have the knowledge. So hopefully they won't screw up their flagship!

 

This has absolutely nothing to do with knowledge. Dell has the knowledge, we know that from their Alienware line. It's whether they make the right design choices. For the 9550/9560, they opted for aesthetical design over (cooling) function. Partly, I don't blame them for that. The 9560 is technically an ultrabook. Having said that, I personally think they could've made better use of the space. The tapered design of the XPS 15 doesn't make the laptop any thinner when sitting on a desk and is essentially wasted dead space.

Losing the tapered front, they could've have made the battery less wide, and a bit thicker, leaving more room for cooling or even a second M.2 slot.

 

Agreed.

I think Dell should have killed the tapered front AND sides from the case bottom.

That would have allowed for a max size battery, more cooling, a better vrm, more space for pcie x4 piping, another m.2 slot. Downside is it would not look so smart. Also the 2.5" HDD bay was probably a requirement constraining design as m.2 drives were certainly not popular at the time.

Interestingly that is how Apple did it. But Apple also "omitted" the bottom cooling vents. That kills cooling performance but it can boost speaker sound quality a lot (I drilled big holes in the bottom of a MacBook Pro). Lack of cooling vents might provide slightly more volume inside.

 

From my experience another benefit is that it keeps the cooling performance "the same" when you use it on your lap since the vents won't get blocked. But, you know, that's the difference between "sometimes good" and "always bad".

 

Some new info of the new XPS processor what to expect; Slower clock speed, more cores, faster DDR4 support. Seems they make a little change also on the IGP, so probably we will not have driver (not even with modding) for Windows 7.

​

 

Don't says things like that, if no windows 7 option, no deal!​

 

Windows 7 died with Skylake. Kaby Lake and Coffee Lake don't support it.

Also... maybe no 9570 at CES.

https://twitter.com/AzorFrank/status/944354818105233408

 

That is supported by rather stable prices I see this winter on 9560 at retailers, ebay, outlet, dell.com (based on informal search every few days for 7700HQ configs in FHD and 4k).

These are not on firesale...yet.

 

I'm curious, when do you ever see dell laptops significantly drop in price when the new model is out? I seem to recall them keeping the same price.

 

Prices move around rather frequently but not so predictably. Sometimes near fiscal quarter end, sometimes during a sales holiday, and sometimes before new models are released. Sometimes haphazardly. Refurb pricing and availability is more volatile.

 

Ohh yeah, Kaby Lake running 100% excellent with Windows 7, just not officially supported. For Coffe Lake also just driver question...

 

I want to point out that it does seem like a 1060 MaxQ is totally viable:

https://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-...i5-7300HQ-GTX-1050-1080p-Laptop.272914.0.html

Same laptop, compared to it's 1060 version uses the same power.

 

I don't think it's the power consumption that is the problem, it is the burden it would put on the already insufficient cooling system. Note that the Inspiron 7577 is a thicker laptop.


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The new Dell XPS 13 is using "GORE Thermal Insulation" which nearly doubles the cooling capacity (27W up from 15W): https://www.anandtech.com/show/12196/new-dell-xps-13-smaller-lighter-and-more-powerful

 

I am not sure how useful that would be even with the current model's poorly designed cooling system. Without a complete thermal rework, a 1060 Max-Q will do nothing except throttle to hell and back.


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Interesting, sounds like they are trying to prevent heat soak by insulating the bottom shell? Maybe I'm reading that wrong.

They have a lot of work with the cooling to do on the 15" but if they do something simple like the 7577 I think it would be good. In all honesty the heatsink in the 7577 isn't that thick, I wish I would have measured it, but it seems totally feasible in the 15 with a little bit of work.

 

The improved cooling is principally from adding a second fan to the XPS13 lol.

Not quite sure what they are doing with the Gore Thermal Insulation; can't really tell where it is being used. Probably more of a marketing thing. Looking at the high res photo on Tom's hardware, I suppose it could be the black coating on the case bottom, or some coating on the heatpipes or the three pads near the vents; or maybe directing the hot air...

"Dell doubled the amount of fans and heatpipes (from one, to two each) compared to the previous version of the XPS 13, and the company claimed to offer the first laptop to use Gore Thermal Insulation. The thin and flexible thermal pad is designed to spread and dissipate heat on select areas of the heat pipes for increased performance and lower surface temperature." (Tom's Hardware)

"The XPS 13 is the first laptop built with GORE™ Thermal Insulation, which provides thermal conductivity levels lower than air in a thin, flexible format, to keep your laptop cool while it works hard. While the Gore insulation directs heat out of the device, dual fans and heat pipes further lower the temperature of your XPS, enabling greater performance in a thinner form factor." (Dell)

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/dell-xps-13-ultra-thin-laptop-2018,36220.html
http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/sf/xps-laptops?appliedRefinements=1353,1037
As you may know, GORE-TEX is a popular thin membrane for winter jackets and gloves; it provides waterproofing & wind resistance plus some breathability. Some of the firm's products provide thermal and/or electrical insulation for industrial use. They also market dental floss.

 

Problem is, by the time this thing hits shelves Volta GPU's will literally be right around the corner if not coming out already. Not to mention the artificial 77*C throttling will be just as real as it is in my 9560's GTX 1050 now.

 

The only thing that can solve the throttling is @iunlock 's magic. His wizardry can keep it below that at all times.

I am hoping Volta will be a cooler architecture than Pascal, because otherwise the performance gains will be limited to thicker laptops like the GT75VR.


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You need wizardry only to fix poor original Dell design. His work mainly shows that better cooling within the same space is possible with some tweaking with just a few grams of extra weight. A better factory design with some more heatpipes and fins could surely be better, and you can see how it can be done in some other thin laptops which have the 1060 or such inside. In particular, leaving the VRMs without active cooling isn't particularly wise. What's worrying is the Dell mindset about XPS that they can just cram hot chips inside and let DPTF throttle them after a couple of minutes (when the benchmarks are done).

The new XPS 13 with the double heatpipe and fan is good news, hopefully adequate for cooling the new CPU?

 

So people are waiting here for Geforce 1060M, but if it is coming with this:
???


According to Intel performs at least Geforce 1060M!


It probably consumes less power, needs smaller motherboard, so gives more space for heat-sink.

 

I'm guessing the same thing. I dont think they are going to use Nvidia this year.

 

Nice laptop but not exactly a direct replacement for the current model lineup. More a shift to a 2 in 1 thin and light to compete with HP and Lenovo products. I'm not so sure about the selective benchmarks against the 1060 either? We're giving up an additional two cores for the on chip Vega solutions. Nothing wrong with it but I perceive the current XPS to be a bit of a powerful multimedia laptop bordering on the workstation class, hence it's near identical sister precision model.

 

Interesting... This cherry-picked data implies the Vega M might perform decently in the real world. But my gut tells me not quite up to the new crop of nVidia GPUs with 8700HQ processors...

All for new solutions given the Kaby Lake XPS15's cooling/power "challenges". But I'll wait for others to beta test this one.

 

Now the 2-in-1 with Kaby Lake G is "official": https://www.notebookcheck.net/The-Dell-XPS-15-2-in-1-is-real-and-it-sure-runs-hot.269900.0.html

 

So NotebookCheck reported the XPS15 (9570) will not be released until later this year.

The 9575 (new 15" 2-in-1) has no USB-A port!

The 9575's 65 watt Core i7-8705G can run max 4.1ghz on one core! Not sure how long for before throttliing lol. For CPU intensive chores, I wonder if power to the GPU can be ramped down to say 10 watts and say 55 watts sent to the CPU only. And vice-versa...

 

how late this year?

I am kinda juggling my thoughts between XPS 15 and AW 15.. realized that I do not do much GPU intensive gaming

 

after June is the closest I have heard.

 

Frank Azor mentioned that they won't have news of the XPS 15 until April or May. So I wouldn't expect it any time soon. Just curious, why would you want a AW15 if you do not plan on doing any GPU intensive gaming?

 

I had the AW 15 r1 980m / 4k and gave it to my brother as a Christmas present. Worked well for me for about 3 years.

Torn between XPS 15 and AW 15. I dont do much of the FPS gaming stuff so I probably do not need a true gaming laptop. I usually do Civ/Cities Skylines/Transport Fever which I believe are heavier on the CPU than the GPU

but June?! that is like 6 months for me without a lappy.

 

Well, if you don't mind the gamer-looks of the AW15, but you still want something as portable as the XPS 15. Maybe something like the Gigabyte Aero 15 / Aero15X is something for you?

 

nah aero not my type... i do not like the highlights

 

Came across this post thanks to Google. If the 9570 uses Titan Ridge and wires the dGPU (or "semi-dGPU") to the display outputs, as Dell has done on some Inspiron Gaming models, then the system could support DP 1.4 even though the iGPU doesn't. However, the main reason the gaming systems are wired that way is to support things like G-Sync, VR, and stereoscopic 3D, all of which are primarily gaming-related, and the downside is that this wiring strategy means the dGPU is always running whenever an external display is attached, and apparently some people regularly use external displays while remaining on battery power. So perhaps this design would be rejected on the grounds of the regular, "This is an ultrabook, not a gaming laptop, so we optimized battery life over functionality" refrain.

On the other hand, if the rumors about a 5K built-in display option are true, that suggests that even the built-in panel would be wired to the dGPU since 5K requires better than DP 1.2, in which case the iGPU might be eliminated entirely on the 9570 -- unless Intel has DP 1.4 support up its sleeve. Either way, a 5K display option would make DP 1.4 support on the external connectors very likely.

I personally won't upgrade from my XPS 15 9530 until I can get DP 1.4 because I already have a 4K HDR TV and I might want to get a 5K display or two. USB 3.2 support would be nice too, but if that was the only thing missing from my list I don't know if I'd wait just for that. I would also LOVE to see a matte 4K+ display even if it meant buying the Precision variant, but I know I'm dreaming there.

 

5K for a 15 inch screen makes absolutely no sense, so I really hope they won't go for that. With a 4K screen, we are already pushing 280ppi. For your information, the average person generally can see about 60ppd (pixels per degree). With a 4K, 15 inch screen, we get have a 160ppd@80cm distance. That's well beyond what a human eye can see in terms of detail. With a 5K screen, we bump the ppi up to about 370. At an 80cm distance, this gives a PPD of 210.

Only a very small amount of 18 year olds (who are at the height of their visual acuity) can see 120ppd. Obviously, the numbers change as we sit closer to the screen, but for a 4K 15 inch screen to break this 60ppd average of the human eye, you'd need to sit roughly 30cm away from your screen. Which you generally don't do, unless your pixelpeeping for some reason.

So I absolutely hope that Dell does their research and does not join in this MegaPixel 2.0 race we currently have. Because it's pointless, it sacrifices battery life and it sacrifices screen responsiveness. Getting a 4K screen with a higher brightness, true 10 bit panel, HDR compatible would be MUCH better than additional pixels.

 

^ I 100% agree with this. 5K made no sense to me either; I mentioned it only because it gave me hope for DP 1.4.

 

I agree 100%.

While there may be some advantages to ultra high resolution for some applications, such as doing serious photography editing work, having a 5K 15 inch screen just doesn't, to me, make much sense.

While, overall, I'm pleased with my XPS 15 9560 with the 4K screen, there is a part of me that wishes that I had gotten the FHD screen, which is what I had on an XPS 15 9550.

And, even if my eyes were able to perceive a higher level of detail (or improved color) with the 4K 15 inch screen than with the FHD screen, it wouldn't be enough, for me, to compensate for the scaling issues that I have with some software with the 4K screen. There are times, with the 4K screen, when I have to use the pinch zoom just to be able to enlarge the tiny text on an Outlook email to make it readable.

I know that, for me, I won't have any interest in a laptop with a 5K 15 inch screen.

 

Agreed. FHD is way more sensible when used for apps that don't scale well.


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Well and here I am.... not knowing whether to upgrade my XPS 15 9530 with the XPS 9560 or rather wait for the XPS 9570.

Are there any prices released yet?
I could wait on a new laptop until June but I don't want to spend 1k more on it. Especially as there is currently a 12% sale on Dell XPS Models.
I don't think the newer CPU will bring any real performance differences compared to the i7-7700HQ.
But I am on Linux and will work 99% on the iGPU only. The dGPU only gets used when I explicit start an application with the dGPU (mostly only games).
And it seems like this newer 9570 will outperform the the Intel HD630 on the 9560?

 

IF....and the big IF, you can hold out.....Do so. If you REALLY WANT now, get the 9560 and enjoy an awesome device!

 

With a big discount the 9560 might be worth it. For all of my disappointment with the ASUS Zenbook Pro UX550, the port selection is something that I would not mind Dell copying for the upcoming XPS 15. 2 TB3 4 lane ports, two USB 3 A ports, a standard charging port, a microsd card slot, and an HDMI port would be an acceptable balancing act between legacy and modern ports. But the HDMI should 2.0 and hopefully Dell doesn't ship the laptop with a massive power adapter, unlike ASUS.

 

It has just been confirmed by Frank Azor that the 9570 will NOT have a 1060. This means that the original sources were completely fake.

I think we can safely assume there will be no 5K screens (and thanks for that).