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    S-XPS 1645 AC Power Throttle Issue Investigation

    Discussion in 'Dell XPS and Studio XPS' started by Zlog, Nov 26, 2009.

  1. sleey0

    sleey0 R.I.P. AW Side Topics

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    Yeah, I started doing the math for the 720 and it looks as if you guys are correct.

    Meh... Just found a 1640 w RGB and T9550 for $900 in the outlet :) Should I bite is the question. lol
     
  2. max420

    max420 Notebook Consultant

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    the multiplier can change, depending on the system load and temp. Turbo Mode will work even if all cores are being used, but not always.

    on another note, i been a bit too busy to do any tests, but ill go ahead and run prime95 and furmark, but what was being suggested about watching the voltage?

    im willing to do the tests, but don't really have the time to read all the posts in the thread, had a few contracts come up here unexpectedly, and i'm semi-swamped. ^^
     
  3. razrkillr

    razrkillr Notebook Guru

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  4. max420

    max420 Notebook Consultant

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    FAIL.

    that enclosure is not really comparable to a modern notebook computer. the laptop will only draw the power it needs.

    the story you mentioned was probably due to incorrect voltage.
     
  5. Tenax

    Tenax Notebook Consultant

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    you dumped 20 volts into a device that requires 12 volts.... ya things are gunna fry.
    Not the same as 90w/130/150 watts all at the same 19.5 volts
     
  6. DeathWalking

    DeathWalking Notebook Evangelist

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    ROFL. Wanna know what killed it? Dell power supplies run at about 19 volts. Wanna guess what hard drives run on?
    5.

    That's right, 5 volts. Some of the lower-power ones are designed to run off the 3.3 volt rail. So that dude put quadruple the correct voltage in his hard drive, and then is surprised when it dies.
    :p

    That's not at all similar to the laptop power cord thing. Assuming they do use the same voltage (which you *really* need to check, but there'd be very little reason for them not to!) and just vary in the amount of amperage they can deliver, it'd pretty much be impossible for them to damage the laptop. It'd be tantamount to the laptop damaging itself, drawing more power than it's able to handle.
     
  7. ikjadoon

    ikjadoon Notebook Deity

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    I had this problem. I don't know what it is, but disable EIST in the BIOS. Restart. Do a test or two, watch multi. Whatever it is, go back and enable it.

    Should work again. This solution inclines me to think the BIOS is confused, too.

    Sorry about your luck: I completely feel your frustration. In my case, I never do anything intensive enough to really feel the pain (games, etc.), but I'd still like to get it fixed. Enjoy the 4830, it's beast, I heard. :D I have heard that, though, the Envy 15 gets pretty warm, warmer than the XPS 1645.

    ~Ibrahim~
     
  8. khaledseif

    khaledseif Notebook Evangelist

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    I would like to test your method but, the battery died while doing the tests, same as described by someone before. :mad:
     
  9. razrkillr

    razrkillr Notebook Guru

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    lol dont be mean... the hard drive was 14 v i checked and the laptop power was 16 voltage. should have at least worked before getting into a fit and winking at me with its blue light. BTW it was a 10000RPM external so it of course needed the power
     
  10. jollyblue

    jollyblue Newbie

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    hello, i too have been following since the first pages of the order status thread.. i ordered on 11/4 and received on 12/2 have been satisfied with performance, although disappointed in battery charge time while on. While playing a few of my games i find much more pleasurable fps wise to run on battery but only for short times while i wait hours to recharge. sorry i do not have time to read all the past post, but i want to know what test i can run and where to post results to help resolve the issue. i want 100% of what i can get on this machine both on battery and ac power.
    my specs are 720qm, 6gb 1333mhz, 500gb 7200rpm, rgb led, bluetooth "disabled", mainly use for video encoding and realflight g4.5 rc flight sim "runs great on battery, not so good on ac power". i have gta4 which i have loaded for testing " which loads much faster then my desktop, but runs like crap (much expected)" i have mirrors edge " havn't tested" and a few other games
    so basicly what i seen on last few pages is .. run prime95 on all core in conjunction with furmark, and i7 turbo for temp & multi monitor... please anything else i should know from last 2 mil post on this machine a quick summary would be much appreciated.. thanks for bearing with me. btw my first post on this thread.. thanks for all the great info i have gotten in the previous month following...
     
  11. atlstang

    atlstang Notebook Evangelist

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    When i first did the test with the 130w it was 7x drawing about 90-95watts on furmark + prime95. I couldnt get the laptop to draw more and use the 130w past 90w. More test showed it starts throttling a bit around 85w under gaming etc. I just tried again, now i cant even get past a 10x no matter what i do(single core load etc) on battery adapter etc, will restart but just shows its buggy as hell.
     
  12. eblock12

    eblock12 Notebook Consultant

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    You can try lowering the screen brightness or turning off the screen entirely and using an external monitor when on a/c power.
     
  13. Tenax

    Tenax Notebook Consultant

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    Wasn't trying to mean razrkillr, i just glanced at the web site for the drive..looked like a 5.25 drive. normally the adapter is 110v pluged in the wall converted to 12v for the drive(5V is used for the logic. The 12V supply is for the motor).
    dont want to make anyone mad :)
     
  14. romills

    romills Notebook Guru

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    A couple things to consider on the power supply side.. razrkillr, the pinout could still of been reversed, some consumer products don't have reverse voltage protection.

    The other thing with the 130W supply, since it will provide more current, there is a chance that dell did not spec their input circuitry to handle more current than what a 90W can supply. It would seem to be a poor choice on Dell's part (but cost cutting sometimes effects these choices), and wouldn't mean immediate component failure, most likely reduced life.

    I would still say that isn't a likely scenario, but it is possible. I've noticed that when the battery is charging, it will take the full 90W the power brick can supply. Dell may of used that when specing there components, or they just may now have to consider what the increased current available may do with the current design. I think they would still owe us to fix this situation, it just might take more change than a 130W supply.
     
  15. ikjadoon

    ikjadoon Notebook Deity

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    It died *during* a test? Like, was it running low when you started or did it just poop out at like 50%?

    ~Ibrahim~
     
  16. razrkillr

    razrkillr Notebook Guru

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    i just dont like the fact that u cant put a laptop AC into something so fragile. if they are going to take the time to manufacture these devices, maybe they should think of precautionary measure beforehand.

    Btw i think equal ram for 2 DIMM slots are better than a 4+2 which is 6. This has been benchmarked for performance and it seems that 2+2 ram cards perform slightly better than 4+2 but the total of 6gb store more space on them. Best to get 4GB duel channel than 6 but 8 is the perfect amount for future proofing. also if the upgrade for 500GB HDD to 128GB SSD is around 50 dollars consider the epic loading and booting time and the comfort of saving 130 dollars that can be spent on an iOmega eGo Red 500GB 7200RPM External hard drive that is the 2.5" model that lets you drop it up to 15' without consequences. Not that you would =P. beside if they fix the throttling issue i would prefer 4GB DDR3 1333MHz ram with an 820QM to a 720QM with 6GB DDR3 1333MHz.

    BTW what should i do with my External? is it salvageable?

    Toshiba A1000 with the oldy stuff made like 4 years ago use 75 watt for a core duo thats crappy, 5400prm hdd and low screen brightness even on high, horrible ati graphics card (cheapest of the cheap). granted its 499 dollars but it uses 75watts which this 1645 uses only 15 watts more?!!!!!? something went wrong here...
     
  17. DeathWalking

    DeathWalking Notebook Evangelist

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    I would be really surprised if the hard drive were 14 volts. All hard drives are made to work inside a computer, and the highest rail inside a computer is 12v.
     
  18. khaledseif

    khaledseif Notebook Evangelist

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    The system restarted and no longer recognized the battery.
     
  19. romills

    romills Notebook Guru

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    What type of testing were you doing when it failed?
     
  20. razrkillr

    razrkillr Notebook Guru

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    umm its 10000rpm and it has a nice little fan to blow all that hot air away. also has interesting light display. btw its a 3.5" external HDD.
     
  21. DeathWalking

    DeathWalking Notebook Evangelist

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    I don't care if it's a velociraptor or a seagate cheetah. They're both 12v.
     
  22. khaledseif

    khaledseif Notebook Evangelist

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    furmark 2windows
    prime 95
    To my surprise the temperature of the CPU reached 85C even though it was working at 7x.
    I ran the same on my T4200 Dell Studio with no throttling at all.
     
  23. atlstang

    atlstang Notebook Evangelist

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    85c... yike thats not a good sign
     
  24. sleey0

    sleey0 R.I.P. AW Side Topics

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    That's what furmark or OCCT will do, lol.

    Stress the crap out of the cpu ;)
     
  25. romills

    romills Notebook Guru

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    90W supply or 130?
     
  26. khaledseif

    khaledseif Notebook Evangelist

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    I ran it on Battery
     
  27. khaledseif

    khaledseif Notebook Evangelist

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    Repeated it after restart and using charger it worked at 9-11x.
    The system shows different performance under the same conditions.
    Maybe when i changed the power plan from power saver into maximum performance, a software problem fails resetting the power management settings.
    Here is my conclusion so far:
    1. The charger is not providing enough power, but it is not the main reason.
    2. There is a definite BIOS problem (Brightness problems for RGBLEDs, stuck at certain multiplier when switching from a power plan to another, and the FPS drop)
    3. There is no heat problem so far, under extreme loads, the CPU reached 85c on battery, 75c on battery when the processor was not throttling.

    Any more observation. I really like the notebook, but don't trust DELL's people, i will send it and rebuy it when the problem is resolved.
     

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  28. RyGuye45

    RyGuye45 Notebook Enthusiast

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    Are they really mismatching the RAM like that for the 6 gig config? Isn't that bad? I thought they would be using 3x2GB. Does anyone think my instability problems (random crashes) might be comming from mismatched memory?
     
  29. DeathWalking

    DeathWalking Notebook Evangelist

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    Faulty memory modules, maybe. Mismatched size, no. I am, however, disappointed if they're using a 4 and a 2 instead of a pair of 3s.
     
  30. daraj

    daraj Notebook Deity

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    My specs shows 6GB Ram with 2 DIMMS.
     

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  31. xoAmyox

    xoAmyox Notebook Guru

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    A pair of 3's?? I'd be impressed if you could find me any laptop with this config.

    But be fair to the guys that build/design these, I had an engineer come out, and with one quick look under the back panel you can see that there isnt room for anything else in there.
    There is so much technology in such a small space, that realistically only 2 memory slots are available. If you want four slots, then you have to sacrifice something else, and for us 'want it all's', sacrifice just isnt on. Otherwise we'd all be flocking to buy envy's right now.
     
  32. gaah

    gaah Notebook Deity

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    To get 6GB they mismatch the size: 1 4GB DIMM and 1 2GB DIMM.
     
  33. gaah

    gaah Notebook Deity

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    I need some info: Anyone have a problem adjusting the brightness of the LCD? In Windows, QuickSet slider goes up and down when I Fn+Up/Down, but the LCD brightness stays the same. This started happening last night. Doesn't even work in BIOS.
     
  34. RyGuye45

    RyGuye45 Notebook Enthusiast

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    Yup, that happened to me. They had to replace the screen.
     
  35. fred2028

    fred2028 Sexy member

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    No 3 GB DDR3 1067 MHz or 1333 MHz memory modules exist. It's 2 GB then 4 GB.
     
  36. Tenax

    Tenax Notebook Consultant

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    Can you just pull out the hard drive from the enclosure and use this?

    just a thought......
     
  37. Hayde

    Hayde Notebook Guru

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    To those that received a compensation power supply: I understand that some of you are not receiving improvements or at least the improvements you'd like to see. Unfortunately I mailed out this notice to Dell Support earlier this week before such conclusion came to about...and they mailed me one.

    Sounds good and all right? But my online invoice says they're actually charging me $120.00 for this thing...I hope it's an error as I never gave them my credit card information. I'm going to be highly upset if they decided to charge me without approval. On top of that, it isn't the fault of mine (or any 1645 owners for that matter) that the power supply was insufficient to begin with and we shouldn't have to pay.
     
  38. 2by4

    2by4 Notebook Consultant

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    They did the same thing with me and others as well and that is just for there record and you should not be charged, but to be sure make sure that the charge does not appear on your statement. Mine will be delivered by fed-ex on Monday.
     
  39. crazycrab

    crazycrab Notebook Enthusiast

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    Do you guys need to return your 90W?
     
  40. max420

    max420 Notebook Consultant

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    it's not an error, it was billed internally, that price reflects what dell warranty had to pay dell or w/e. you will not be charged that amount.

    and there is no way im sending back my 90W, since im not going to carry the 130W around with me.
     
  41. crazycrab

    crazycrab Notebook Enthusiast

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    So Dell didn't ask you to send back the 90W? nice.
     
  42. 2by4

    2by4 Notebook Consultant

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    I do not know, I have to wait till I receive it on Monday, If we do it will come with some paper work explaining the return procedure.
     
  43. gszech

    gszech Notebook Enthusiast

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    I think everyone should get some kind of compensation from dell.

    We all paid extra money for the i7 Core CPU and now we can't use it!
    Additionally we need to fight with dell support to get new parts that could fix the problem (130W power supply) or wait for solution (BIOS update)
     
  44. PsYcNeT

    PsYcNeT Notebook Enthusiast

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    Actually, what I've noticed from my own tests the last week or so, when running Prime95 by itself, the processor seems to run at what I interpret as it's optimal CPU speed for an 8 logical core process.

    It's when the GPU is introduced that this is compromised.

    I'm about to run a few trials with ScienceMark to confirm this.
     
  45. PsYcNeT

    PsYcNeT Notebook Enthusiast

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    This is all on AC power.

    So on the single-core tests, ScienceMark x64 2.0 pushed the multiplier to 20.7x at some points, around 2753.1 MHz, near the rated 2.8 GHz single-core level that Intel claims the 720QM capable of. The load never topped 20%.

    Now it's time to give Cinebench10 a try.

    Also, for those who haven't read it, Hot Hardware has a really comprehensive overview on just how the i7 mobile's architecture works, and why it may be "downclocking" to x7 alot.

    Still no excuse for the variative performance issues we've seen however.
     
  46. Tonkadan

    Tonkadan Notebook Enthusiast

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    I'll do that right now and post results in about 30 minutes.

    For the brightness like I said I was at 100% brightness for all the tests. I'm testing with Furmark and CPU Stress wich uses Prime95 algo for stressing the CPU (I tried Prime95 but I don't know how to get 100% load of the CPU..)

    I'm now sure all my settings are at max for both the battery and when plugged in. Let's do the test. I'll try 3Dmark after.
     
  47. Tonkadan

    Tonkadan Notebook Enthusiast

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    Here's the first test.

    Brightness 100%, MAX performances everywhere. Wifi ON

    240w with the battery IN:
    [​IMG]

    I cannot have more than 7.0 multiplier. As a said before when i'm using this 240w Ac adaptor Windows tell me that it is not recognized and my battery will not charge and the computer will operate slower.

    [​IMG]

    I found strange that when the battery is not in, I can get the 12.0 multiplier.

    [​IMG]

    I will do the same tests with the 90w adaptor now...
     
  48. Tonkadan

    Tonkadan Notebook Enthusiast

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    With the 90w adaptor now

    Always Brightness 100%, MAX performances everywhere. Wifi ON

    With the battery IN

    [​IMG]

    Without the battery:

    [​IMG]

    It's pretty much the same except the average C0 State do not go over 30% with the battery in and go over 40% without the battery. I still don't know what this mean.. :)

    On a side note, whatever the battery is plugged in or not, when i'm running only the CPU stress tool i can get 12x multiplier. As soon as I start Furmark the multiplier go down to 7x. If i'm stopping Furmark and let CPU Stress continue, the multiplier will slowly increase from 7x to 12x.

    CPU Stress Only:

    [​IMG]


    I will try 3dMark now.
     
  49. PsYcNeT

    PsYcNeT Notebook Enthusiast

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    This is what i was getting at with my post above, the multiplier only drops when the GPU is activated on AC, but when just running CPU-intensive applications, it runs as a Core i7 should.
     
  50. crazycrab

    crazycrab Notebook Enthusiast

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    A Dell tech's reply after my 2nd email request for the 130W adapter:

    I have already checked that we have come up with a resolution for these computers which has the 90W adapter and all the new computers which are shipped now does not have any issues with this adapter.

    We have so many escalations till the last month for this faulty product and we elevated this timely so the new computers which are shipped after November 15 does not have the issue with the adapter.


    Can anyone prove/disprove this? For laptops shipped after Nov. 15, does the problem still exist? (I'm expecting Yes, but need some backup to reply Dell) Thanks.
     
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