S-XPS 1645 AC Power Throttle Issue Investigation

I'm already there. This is my last Dell. A $2000 laptop shouldn't have the massive problems this one has had.

 

Dual core over quad core, I want as well. Integrated GPU? Eh, not so much. Unless it can turn on and off in tandem with discrete. If it can pull that off, I WANT IT. That would be MASSIVE powersave.

 

No, I was asking for it since the reason I was given was: it will damage your system(and void warranty). Since he is saying that is not determined, that no longer holds.

If they have already sent out 130W adapters, if I could get hold of someone in dell who understands the full situation through Bill, it would make it a lot easier.

 

Of course it can turn off when a discrete card is present.

Hence, switchable graphics (that don't suck!).

 

I've always been skeptical about switchable graphics, it seems like a huge hack. Maybe it actually works okay in practice, but I can see applications breaking.

 

After using 2 different systems with switchable graphics, I can assure you it works just fine.

With the GPU on the die in the new i5's, it will be pretty kick-a$$ because it will be like 100x morer efficient

 

You sure about that? Last I checked, NVIDIA's switchable graphics required a reboot to switch between the two modes.

 

Yeah, I'm sure.

My M17x didn't need a reboot and my Z590 doesn't either

 

I've tried Unclewebb's throttlestop with the 130w adapter I got from dell and I decided to run Dragon Age on max brightness at my usual graphics settings (high) I'm still hearing crackling audio and a stuttering frame rate (nowhere near as bad as before) but still very noticeable. Am I doing something wrong?


Edit:
I went back a few pages and saw that some people think the issue is the keyboard now? lol well I tried putting the laptop to sleep and resuming and apparently the issue is gone...?
Deeper into the rabbit hole we go...

 

closing the lid does it for me everytime.. wierd i know!?

 

http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/3/1794507/ThrottleStop.zip

Here's the first official release so people can stop e-mailing and overflowing my PM box with requests now.

Time for more users to give it a try and see what they think.

If this simple program dramatically improves the performance of your laptop then consider donating $5 bucks to encourage future development. This version will expire in a couple of weeks so I hope I don't have to add some nagging messages to the next release of ThrottleStop. I hate them.

I've added Core 2 support including adjustable half multipliers, Super Low Frequency Mode (SLFM) support as well as adjustable voltage ID. Be careful when reducing the VID of your CPU. Lowering the core voltage can dramatically reduce the core temperature at full load but if you go too far, a BSOD might be in your future. I'd suggest lowering your core voltage only one notch at a time while running Prime95 Small FFTs. When you lose stability, you've gone too far.

ThrottleStop includes the ability to lower your maximum multiplier on your Core i7 as well now. This might allow you to disable Clock Modulation and still stay within the 90 watt power envelope. It's up to you to monitor your power consumption to see what is possible.

Happy testing.

 

Just tried the new version and it works awesome. Made a donation too, your hard work definitely deserves it

 

Prime95 running Small FFTs on battery power for 10 minutes (using "High Performance" power settings) and the display backlight maxed:


Prime95 running Small FFTs on 150w AC adapter for 10 minutes (using "High Performance" power settings) and the display backlight maxed:


Prime95 running Small FFTs on 150w AC adapter for 10 minutes (using "High Performance" power settings) and the display backlight maxed and ThrottleStop running:



(Interesting note: when I plugged in the 150w adapter while Prime95 was running, I got a warning that the adapter could not be identified and that the laptop would run in reduced performance mode. The multiplier never went higher than 7. This scenario is not reflected in the results above, as I unplugged, stopped Prime95, plugged back in, and everything was normal)


On a side note, I love how much faster the battery charges with the 150w

 

Your screen shot shows ThrottleStop Enabled but you haven't selected any options so it's not actually doing anything. You need to put a check mark in the Disable Clock Modulation box and one in the Set Multiplier box.

Chris123NT: Thanks for your support.

 

my bad.. I had unchecked it when I took the screenshot. I only had "Disable Clock Modulation" checked during the test.

 

Seconded. For every word.

 

There's no need to be quite so snarky. This thread has fluff, but it's a forum. There's not much else to expect when we shouldn't have to have been dealing with this issue in the first place. People complain because there's no other venue to rant on. Calling up a customer rep and yelling at them isn't exactly very productive either, but unfortunately that's all we're pretty much left with here in terms of options.

I expect, as a consumer, when I've paid a sizeable portion of money, that I will not be a beta-tester for a company. I expect the product to be working as it was promised, which this laptop definitely does not.

Call it pointless Dell bashing if you want, but unless voices are raised, it seems that nothing tends to get done. The fact that this thread is so large and so well read and posted on hopefully means something to Dell more than the information on it, because it indicates that customer are unhappy (and a sizeable portion of them). Quite honestly Dell should be coming to the same conclusions this thread did without our help. That's what their engineers are paid to do and that's why we shell out big bucks for their products. I feel absolutely zero sympathy for them whatsoever.

 

Can someone explain why battery has a max multi of 12.277 (aka 1 core at 13, 3 cores at 12) versus 150w ThrottleStop's max of 12.007 (all cores running at 12)?

 

As mentioned before, Intel limits the amount of current and power consumption of these processors. Turbo boost is only available when you are able to stay under these preset limits. There is no software available that lets you go beyond the limits that Intel has set. On the Desktop Core i7, many performance motherboard manufacturers have added a feature to their boards that lets the CPU operate beyond the Intel set limits but it's very unlikely that any notebook manufacturer will ever include that feature in a bios, especially Dell.

In his first screen shot, when all 8 threads are loaded, he must be at the Intel limit because it shows that no turbo boost is available and being used. The default multiplier for a Core i7-720 is 12 and his screen shot shows that all 8 threads are running at 12.000. The maximum of 12.277 likely occurred just as he applied the initial full load. During the one second sample period just as the load was coming up, there was some turbo boost available but it didn't last very long. With 8 threads loaded, it's possible to have a maximum multiplier of 13 but only if you are within Intel's power and temperature limits. That number says for that 1 second interval, he was able to get a 13 multiplier for 27.7% of the time and the other 72.3% of the time it was down to 12. That gives you an overall average of 12.277. That's what that number means. Intel provided high performance timers within these CPUs so you can very accurately measure the average multiplier. This method gives a little bit of random variation at idle but at full load it tends to be rock steady, unless your CPU is throttling back and forth between two values like 12 and 13.

The i7-720 will not get any turbo boost when it is fully loaded with 8 threads of Prime so it will be limited to the 12 multiplier. You might be able to use my load tester program included in the RealTemp download to do some testing with. It creates a much more gentle load than Prime so with that you might see the full 13X multiplier when you run 8 instances of Load Tester, one for each thread.

With 8 threads of Prime running and without ThrottleStop, you should be able to go into the RealTemp Settings window and enable some Clock Modulation. Instead of the bios slowing you down, you can slow yourself down using this method. What you should see is that if you apply enough Clock Modulation while testing, sooner or later your CPU will get under the Intel power limitation and your full turbo boost should return so your multiplier will jump up to 13. This will give you a better idea of just what the true limit is before your processor gets throttled down to 12. You might find a certain percentage of Clock Modulation where your multiplier starts reporting some random looking oddball numbers somewhere between 12 and 13. That's a sign that the multiplier is cycling hundreds of times a second based on load. When it is overloaded, it drops to 12. When it thinks it might be able to go higher, it jumps up to 13.

 

This is so confusing... or rather will be confusing. Intel Based i7s with the arrandale microarcutecture will have 4 threads and 2 cores, support for turboboost and smart cache. 4MB of L3 cache. so yes this does seem to be a fair stand up because of the 3.33 you can acheive with turbo boost. Q3 will release a new i7 that has 4 cores and 8 threads. Arrandale has intergraded GPU allong with the 32nm, this will save power + even more power by having the ability to switch from intergraded to discrete GPUs. The low watt draw will help this laptop for sure but even with that trottling will still occur as the lower 1640s with duel cores trottle a little bit compared to the 820QM.

Looking to to future

 

oh this could be that the battery is not being charged when running only on battery... leading to optimal temperatures for turbo boost. or it could just be that there is something wrong with ur machine

 

Repeat the test and click reset after the system stabilizes and see whether you will get it again or not, as unclewebb explained it may be at the stress building stage.

 

The 150W AC Adapter that works, it's from the PA-15 Family? It's compatible if the 90W AC Adapter bundled with the Notebook is from the PA-3E Family?
Please reply, I have already buyed a 130W AC Adapter and it not work properly ("Adapter Type: Unknown" from the BIOS) and it disable the Turbo Boost

 

What 130W Adapter did you buy? I know both the PA-13 and the PA-4E adapters work fine with this laptop (both are 130W)

 

They charge also the battery?

 

With ThrottleStop and a 130w adapter, it will charge, but not that much while playing.

 

Do you see in the BIOS "AC Adapter Type: UNKNOWN" ?

 

Mine says AC Adapter Type: 130W

 

I just called the Dell technical service, the operator told me that they know the problem and that the new studio xps 16 have made a modification of the power supply and seems to work fine .. new notebooks should not have known these problems .. I hope it is the truth .. As soon as I get the notebook you'll know if it works well ..

 

That tech is full of it, as the engineering team is still investigating the issue. They're in the process of capturing some people's laptops now so they cannot possibly have a resolution yet.

 

a just said the words of technical service... he said who are few days that have resolved this problem.. i hope........ but just i'll have the laptot i'll make test to know if this is truth or false...

 

Easy way to tell will be if your laptop comes with a 90w adapter, the problem is not solved.

 

Images of Dell lurking around corners snatching peoples laptops out of their hands ... or Dell SWAT teams decending from helicopters grabbing peoples laptops ...

 

I'll rerun the test shortly.

 

Prime95 running Small FFTs on battery power for 10 minutes (using "High Performance" power settings) and the display backlight maxed, with the Min/Max multiplier reset after 3 minutes:
( http://imgur.com/QDnrA)


Prime95 running Small FFTs on 150w AC adapter for 10 minutes (using "High Performance" power settings) and the display backlight maxed, with the Min/Max multiplier reset after 3 minutes:
( http://imgur.com/8Xk0L)



What I notice with these tests is while the laptop is plugged in, as long as I don't type or open anything, the mulplier doesn't drop. I can do the same thing on battery and the multiplier won't drop regardless.

These tests are run with only me running Prime95, RealTemp, and i7Turbo until the last 30 seconds or so, where I open up paint.
It was when I opened paint that the multiplier dropped while on AC (on battery, there was no change).

 

lololololololol

That was precious. But, really, they just ask you and you say yes. Then they ship you a new one and you ship your old one to the engineering team.

Those i5's look pretty legit. But, no thanks. I waited long enough for this one, I like my 8 threads, and if battery life was that much of a concern, I would have gotten a netbook.

No more news from the engineering team, but they said they have placed the order and the order number should be given to me relatively soon.

~Ibrahim~

 

Ok - since I'm pretty new to all this, how would I go about testing this notebook? What is the proper test procedure? Without having to read 150 pages + (which I don't have the time to do anyway) what programs & settings (power management, real temp etc) do I use to run the tests?

If you want to collect information in this thread and be able to relay it to Dell in a coherent manner, there should be a post at the beginning of this thread or a new thread alltogether which explains in detail the testing procedure.

Any help is greatly appreciated..............

 

+1 This would be very helpful.

 

Hi, wich 150w AC adapter do You have? It's a PA-15 Family? It works fine with your notebook? In the BIOS you see: "AC Adapter Type: 150W" ?

 

I have 2 150w adapters. Both show up in the BIOS as 150w.

One of them is at home, I'll check the number. It came with my old Inspiron 9100.

The other is with me, a PA-5M10 Family (DA150PM100-00 or J408P)

 

OK, to resolve any doubts, run this benchmark with your 150W AC Adapter:
Prime95 + Furmark and check the multiplier and the temp with RealTemp.

Run the benchmark first without ThrottleStop, after re-run the benchmark with ThrottleStop enabled.

I wait... before buy my 150W AC Adapter

 

jackert instead of prime95 run the intel burn test, as it draws more power then prime95. or something equivalent. Max420 at the very begging of this post, or near the beginning is getting the same results as you. he noticed improved performance with the 130w he got from dell.

I very well suspect he still throttling, under gaming etc, though i dunno if hes checked. But with prime95 it seemed it was so on the edge, the little help the 130w provided helped stabilize it. but that doesnt really help to much as far as gaming goes, as the true performance of this laptop is still locked away without throttlestop

 

Tools to test with:

Real Temp, ThrottleStop, Prime95, Furmark, and 3DMark '06.

I mean, do you guys get the gist of the situation? CPU is throttling.....use these tools to figure it out?

~Ibrahim~

 

hmm, i like the 8 threads too cuz i do alot of photo and video editing. how do i go about getting a upgrade for the system due to the inablility to function under stressed loads on both the GPU and CPU?

 

I will run all of these tests when I get home tonight and post the results.

 

I'm still trying to get my head around how 1645 was released without anybody in Dell noticing this problem.


Can they be that lax?

Surly they can't.

Is it because that by using full power the average lifespan is shortened?




And why is the response from dell so slow?

The capturing process?
They already know the reason for problem and are trying to protect sales?
It seems to me that dell must be breaking some law by allowing this laptop to be still available to buy, knowing that it is a defective product.



I'm loosing faith in Dell as each day passes.

Pity there is no alternative to this laptop.

 

Thats why dell isn't worried. There is no alternative to this model.

As long as people acually keeping believing dell when they'e told on the phone "Oh that isse resolved bla bla bla" then dell will keep making sales.

 

Yea, it is either one of two things,
1. Either they knew about it and let it out for sale anyway
or
2. They did not do enough testing.

The bottom line is that is always about the $$$$$$$$$$
and will worry about fixing it latter. At least that is what it sure seems like.

 

Eh, stupid question... Throttle Stop work now with the 90W psu? (with no full multi of course) or I dreamed?

 

hell, I wish they would just release a fix NOW that would make a 90w power supply work the same as the damm battery. i know its not going to put this machine at 100% but couldn't they do at LEAST that for now? really, is that asking too much for a "high end" machine?