S-XPS 1645 AC Power Throttle Issue Investigation

hang in there irontank. This laptop is amazing when its running to its potential. I been playing tf2 at 1080p resolutions. Its impossible to play it at all smoothly at those resolutions unless i have throttlestop running with the 130watt.

the differences is nearly 2 fold in fps. sometimes i forget to turn it on, and am running around 20-30fps slowings down to 15 or so under heavy action. But with throttle stop its around 60fps consistently and never really dipping below 50 or so. Same with left 4 dead 2.

You have a much higher end system than I. Probably being hindered even more by the low power situation, so your performance boost from throttlestop and bigger power supply should be even better then what im seeing.

 

Exactly. I have personally purchased four Dells in the past two years. I am very pro-Dell, but that does not mean that I have to accept this situation and not complain about it.

 

could someone please post a link to the Furmark download - thanks

 

Sorry to hear your story. That's one of the reason I am so hesitate to call dell tech support.
By the way, in world of warcraft, you need to lower shadow quality to run smoothly. On battery, you still need to keep laptop cool to run at full speed.

 

Just wondering if a 3D score of 6377 is the norm on these notebooks ?!
Using 3DMark06

 

No and yes.
Yes under 90 w charger due to throttling and conservative power management, and no under 130 w charger and the software by unclewebb.

 

http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/3/1794507/ThrottleStop.zip

Just a quick update. I added a Clock Modulation meter directly to ThrottleStop so you can monitor for this before deciding if you want to disable it.

For Core 2 users I got rid of the 6.5 multiplier request since those don't seem to exist. I also separated VID from the multiplier adjustment so they can be adjusted independently.

I am considering adding a low load filter so you can disable ThrottleStop automatically when the load is less than say 10%. The goal would be to allow your computer to idle down when lightly loaded to save power if you are using the energy saving features but to be able to run at full speed when the load is greater than the 10% value. User feedback is always appreciated.

 

lol you just want it to say Windows 7 Ultimate on your startup.

 

my point is that 4gb runs faster than 6gb and 8gb runs faster than 6gb. so thats why for me it is either 4 or 8 and i was just suggestting you to ask for the 8 instead of whatever else you got.

 

One tip if you have a 90 watt adapter, like me, and don't want to risk blowing up expensive electronics with ThrottleStop. The system doesn't turn on clock modulation on Core 0 (CPU 0 and 1). So you can go into task manager processes, right click some game you want to run smoother, and do "Set Affinitity", then only check CPU 0 and CPU 1. This will make Windows only schedule the process on those CPUs that aren't being throttled as badly.

 

Anyone get any updates from Dell yet?

 

@IronTank

I don't exactly get it, "failtest" your hardware? What does failtest mean? Like, brick your hardware? No, the BIOS update should not have done that...

@razrkillr

Yeah, no. There is no tangible benefit from dual-channel vs single-channel in basically any application.

 

World of warcraft actually sets itself to cpu 0 and cpu 1 by default, but windows 7 always run it on cpu 0.

 

yeah, like I said, I figured it was a dumb question. (or a conspiracy theory ).

I guess we'll see on Monday what the fate of my new notebook is. About now I'm really kicking myself for using Dell online support. Better now than later though I suppose. If my HW is going to fail, now's the time to do it.

 

dell makes us pay for ice cream cones but takes a blowdryer to them then gives us the soggy cones to eat. =P

 

It would be interesting to see some numbers from a Kill-a-Watt meter while doing some gaming. I think users with a 90 watt adapter might get their best gaming experience by using ThrottleStop to Disable Clock Modulation and then adjusting the multiplier slightly lower to keep under 90 watts.

I've seen some reports of gaming needing about 110 watts so you might be able to game on a 90 watt adapter with a maximum multiplier of about 11 without Clock Modulation killing your performance and turning your games into a slide show. Post some numbers if you have the time.

 

I was mislead into thinking that Dell was reliable and so far, it hasn't been.

This thread has been useful. All that needs to happen is that the initial post needs to be updated with the useful information, but the OP hasn't updated it.

I explained this before, but you cannot expect people to not vent here, because there simply is no other venue to do so. I can't exactly call up Michael Dell and tell him his company is becoming utter crap now, can I? Nor should I be yelling at the representatives on the phone, because at the end of the day, they're not the problem. The problem is the corporate decisions to release shoddy products without enough due testing, simply in order to make the dollars faster because a large enough % of the population won't know any better to complain about stuff like this.

Healthy venting isn't a bad thing and so far, this thread may have a lot of it, but it's not completely uncivil or profanity ridden.

To be quite honest, this thread has helped the people that it really should in the first place: the customers. This thread does not exist for Dell's benefit because they shouldn't be needing a bunch of customers to be testing their products in the first place.

Complaining loudly and threatening to never buy Dell, etc. is unfortunately what really matters to Dell in the end. Evidence is my own case.

Talked to them repeatedly on the phone (combined total of 12 HOURS) and they wouldn't do ANYTHING for me. Wouldn't send me a 130W adapter, wouldn't replace my LCD screen (4 stuck pixels, even though their policy is to replace after 1 stuck pixel...).

So, I filed a Better Business Bureau complaint and voila, I get a call the NEXT DAY. I ended up with them express shipping me a new 130W adapter and I'm getting an upgraded screen free of charge.

 

That's not true, I've seen both of those cores being throttled down at points in time.

 

Here's what the Intel documentation says if you have Clock Modulation set to different values.

http://www.intel.com/Assets/PDF/manual/253668.pdf

8.7.13.3 Thermal Monitor
.......
For software controlled clock modulation, each logical processor has its own IA32_CLOCK_MODULATION MSR, allowing clock modulation to be enabled or disabled on a logical processor basis. Typically, if software controlled clock modulation is going to be used, the feature must be enabled for all the logical processors within a physical processor and the modulation duty cycle must be set to the same value for each logical processor. If the duty cycle values differ between the logical processors, the processor clock will be modulated at the highest duty cycle selected.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not sure what would happen if you set both logical processors on Core 0 to a Clock Modulation value and then left the other 3 disabled. You could try running a quick Super PI mod benchmark. Lock it to core 0 and then run the same bench with Super PI locked to core 1 and see if there is any performance difference. If you're gaming, it's possible that in the middle of a game that your clock mod settings you started with could get changed.

Once I see some Kill-a-Watt numbers when gaming with a reduced multiplier, I'll see if the 90 watt guys could benefit with being able to lock Clock Modulation to a fixed number like 87.5%. It would be easy to add an option like that to ThrottleStop.

Thanks Asherek for showing everyone what gets Dell's attention. I would keep bugging Dell until they agreed to ship a 130 watt adapter for free and a label so you can mail back the useless 90 watt adapter that these things come with.

 

thanks for the updated utility uncleweb.

edit: nvm i still had it set in realtemp but thanks!

 

unclewebb your the best! if i was a millionaire, i would give you... 50 000. but if i was a billionaire then i would give u 1 5 million dollars.

 

Actually for CPU only application. The throttling isn't too bad near 2.13g for single thread. But with 3d single thread application, the cpu is throttled to the bottom.

 

I'm very busy lately, so sorry that the first post hasn't been updated. I never thought this would really end up being more then 10 or so pages at most! I didn't realize that we were only at the tip of the iceberg.

If some one wants to take the time to create a nice informative post, I'll put that in the first post and give you the credit for it, or we might need to have one of you guys make a new thread, with all the information compiled in it (and some reserved posts for new information) and we'll lock this thread.

Either option works for me.

 

No, I want the non-existent frivolous vaporware "Ultimate Extras."=)

 

First page ghetto-updated, as in, I copy-pasted information from Khaledseif (and gave him credit).

Khaledseif, if that bothers you for any reason, let me know and i'll take it down

 

Is it possible to post unclewebb's paypal address to donate to him on the first post? Not sure if he will agree to it or not, but I think he definitely deserves it.

 

I think it's somewhere in the site's Rules that you cant post stuff like that, or something about monetary gain bla bla bla. But yeah unclewebb deserves to get some free meals after his work

 

The ThrottleStop system tray menu now has a Donate option for anyone that wants to buy me a beer or a burger. I won't complain.

Does anyone know if RM Clock works with the Core i7 mobile CPUs?

I learned something very interesting tonight. I've heard about some users using RM Clock to control throttling for the Latitude E6x00 Core 2 series. I played around tonight and discovered that there are two types of throttling. Intel CPUs have system and user clock modulation. RM Clock is able to control system modulation. That's great but Dell on their Latitudes and on these Core i7 laptops is using user clock modulation which I couldn't find a way for RM Clock to disable that.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=5644965&postcount=453

Long story short, RM Clock might be useless to prevent what Dell is doing to their laptops. ThrottleStop should work on any Core 2 or Core i7 based laptop with throttling issues.

 

I don't even think it makes sense on paper.

The i7 720QM has a TDP of 45 Watt, the 4670 has a TDP of 35 Watt, which would leave about 10 Watt (in a perfect world without any loss) for the rest of the system: RAM, HDD/SSD, screen, network, charging the battery...

Does anyone know the the screen uses? I believe the HDD / SSD is only a couple of Watts, but still, with only 10 Watts to spare (in a full load scenario)'.

That looks like a nice update!

I have some more feedback on the C2D btw, but I still need some time to write it down and make the screenshots. Will try to do that this afternoon.

 

I think he deserves a lot more than some free meals, since he was able to diagnose and solve it with such haste, I wonder what all those well paid tech's from dell have been doing since day 1.

first 5 - 10 calls in about the problem "damn nerds think they found a problem with our perfect design, hey jim let me get a hit of that joint"

callers 10 - 30 "persistent little sh*ts, maybe if we ignore them enough they might get the point that we don't give a rats a$$ "

callers 30 - 50 "just bs them and replace some parts randomly for the ones who complain that might shut them up"

callers 50+ calls "what the hell, maybe we should look into this......nah, its christmas, lets capture a laptop or two and check it out after new year"

 

I doubt the people who are capable of doing anything actually heard about it more than a week or two ago.

 

My best guess is that the people that are capable of doing something about this, have known about this issue for a long, long time. The Latitude E6x00 series that people have been complaining about for the last year has the exact same problem.

A throttling scheme designed by the Dell engineers which first of all lowers the CPU multiplier and then when that is as low as it can go, it starts using the Clock Modulation feature of the processor to further reduce heat, power consumption and definitely performance.

Enough is enough. This isn't a, "We don't know what's going on problem." The guy that answers the phone in India might not know what's going on but the Dell engineers sure as hell know. The bios was written to throttle the CPU to stay within the 90 watt capabilities of the power adapter that they've included with these laptops. Period, end of discussion.

They did it either to save money by including a 90 watt adapter instead of the more appropriate 130 watt adapter or they did this so the majority of their customers wouldn't be phoning to complain about a Quad core laptop burning through their lap.

The 59 page pdf that tinkerdude created clearly explains the exact steps that Dell uses to control their laptops. I couldn't even finish reading the whole document before I started thinking that monitoring and changing a couple of registers in the CPU should be able to reverse this throttling scheme. Sure enough, it was that easy and within a couple of hours I had a working program. And to think that Dell has been twiddling their thumbs for over a year with the Latitude. How much of their customers time have they wasted?

After the Core 2 issue started making sense, I came to this forum and sure enough, quickly discovered that Dell is using the exact same scheme on these laptops. This is not some random freak occurrence that they know nothing about. They are using performance throttling, likely on a wide range of their laptops, without giving end users any notice of this.

That's just wrong.

 

Dell must be anxious to kill their market share. The M15x is probably the last Dell I'll purchase unless they change their throttle loving philosophy.

 

I didn't say they're not being throttled, I said they're not being throttled as much because clock modulation is never turned on.

 

After some test, ThrottleStop dosen't solve all problem for me

I'm testing TrackMania Forever Nation (1080p, high, brightness min & max).

- AC 130w (PA-4E) with ThrottleStop = Multi between 12x and 14x and the game lag and it's realy unplayable.

- AC 130w (PA-4E) without ThrottleStop = Multi between 7x and 11x and the game lag and it's realy unplayable.

- Battery (100%) without AC, with ThrottleStop = Multi between 12x and 14x and the game is playable WITHOUT lag

- Battery (100%) without AC, without ThrottleStop = Multi between 12x and 14x and the game is playable WITHOUT lag

I use the last version of ThrottleStop

 

Did you change powerplay to performance?

 

Yes

Tested with Catalyst 9.11 & 9.12 hotfix (beta no WHQL), same problem

Tested with graphic card oc and not too (675/800 and 780/855)

Edit: After some test in battery (Prime95 + Furmark), I think my main board is dead During the benchmark with ThrottleStop, laptop sttoped suddenly.. Now, it runs only in AC now, I can't boot with the battery.

 

Try first to recharge the battery with the AC Adapter, then retry to boot only with the battery

 

Dell has some idiotic policies, that's for sure. They can't just grab an SXPS 1645 off the shelf and test it, but it has to be with a customer's laptop.

Technically, they have to wait until January to do the capture so that I'm not out of a laptop. So they basically placed a new order for me. And you know how long the wait was the SXPS 1645, but it's slowly relieving. At the same time, Christmas is right around the corner....

But unclewebb brings up a good point...how all these laptops left the factory like this, seemingly "fine"? How much he accomplished in a few days versus what Dell's done in weeks...and, of course, you know how it will end up. They'll hear about ThrottleStop, call it a dangerous application, tell you it voids your warranty, and now you're SOL.

But that's just a worst-case scenario, lol. Certainly don't put it past them, though.

I mean, I understand that the ball is rolling, things are happening (seemingly?!), but end-result is what matters. And shipping defective laptops for over 2 months now is just ridiculous. Any other industry. Only the computer industry is allowed to make egregious errors and get away with "technical difficulties"...

~Ibrahim~

P.S. So that's how it feels like to vent....yeah, it is nice, lol!

 

I already test. The battery blocks to 58% in charge all time (Quickset and Windows say that the battery charge but it dosen't charge) and when I try to boot with only the battery, it dosen't boot.

I think it's the motherboard but it can also be battery.

 

weird. do you have a killawatt meter so you can see you're power consumption during gaming

ALSO The Latest Throttlestop comes with the disable clock modulation box unchecked...might seem dumb, but did you check it?

 

I don't have a killawatt meter, sorry.

Yes, all box were checked. But ThrottleStop + Furmark + Prime95 (Battery and no AC plug) resume to burn my battery or my mainboard

I'm going to call Dell Tech tomorrow for remplace battery/mainboard.

If someone can test TrackMania Forever Nation in 1080p, high (Free) with ThrottleStop + AC 130w and 150w for confirms the game lag with AC plug and not with the battery even with the multi at 12.00x.

BTW: I tested with all version of ThrottleStop.

 

Hi everybody, did someone reached the 2,8ghz ? (133x21 on a single core)

 

I think you should remove throttlestop and furmark etc etc before doing so. They might say that it is your fault, bla bla bla accidental damage or by doing x and y you have violated terms of agreement,bla bla bla warranty is void etc etc. Also the use of the 130W which they have said is not "safe". They may say they won't fix it due to that.

~Good luck

 

Also, maybe you should uncheck the set multiplier box and uncheck voltage id? I'm not sure I haven't used it before. You should PM someone who used it and ask their settings or try one of the older ThrottleStop's with only the disable clock modulation option as to avoid confusion. That's all I can think at this time

[sorry for double post...i only realized after I did it]

 

I'm already in my 4th remplacement I think they will not be very happy

I will say that the computer suddenly stopped and the battery doesn't work

Only the box voltage id is uncheck. The set multiplier box is check and on 13x.

I tested the 3 version of ThrottleStop and same problem of lag even with the multi 12x.

 

I was saying maybe you shouldn't check set multiplier box and allow the computer to decide that?

edit: Then again you tested all. Hmmmm talk to unclewebb about this. I'm not sure? Did you test this with ALL the laptops? or just this most recent one? Maybe since your hardware failed it was bad anywayz?

Also when you boot on AC with Battery and remove the Adapter does it stay on? Or is the problem: you can't BOOT with battery BUT you can still use the battery after boot? I'm asking just for some clarity

 

If I uncheck multiplier box, the laptop runs at 7x for me.

I tested ThrottleStop with only the recent remplacement.

When I boot with the battery and AC, when I unplug the AC, the laptop stop suddenly. If I test to boot with only the battery, I can't boot.
I can use the laptop only with the AC plug.
Now, I don't know if it's just the internal power supply of the battery or just the battery is dead. I think, Dell will replace mainboard and battery.

 

Strange thing I noticed with running the latest version of ThrottleStop -

With the 'Disable clock modulation' box TICKED, my games seem to throttle and the Framerate drops, sound crackles like it used to before. BUT, when I UNCHECK the 'Disable clock modulation' box, the game is fine and the framerate is good again. Was there maybe a mistake when coding the latest version of throttlestop where UncleWebb got the tick and untick switched around on disable clock modulation? lol

 

I've been trying to understand about the point that they do understand what's going on but perhaps have meant it to be a 'feature' instead. Could it be that it's really not an easy problem to crack?

Even with the excellent throttlestop app, the margin of tolerance is still quite low in the sense that it's not usable for folks with the 90W power supply. Now for an organisation like Dell, it'd be quite irresponsible/unacceptable to unleash the full potential of the laptop while risking such things, assuming that that really is the solution (even if customers were given a 130w power supply.) Which is why I think the official position is that the 130W isn't the real solution (because there are other confounding variables that are still not fixed and they rightly feel that it needs more testing.)

Hopefully they come up with more explanations soon. Thanks to Dell-Bill_B for being continually on the case...