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    S-XPS 1645 Throttling Info. and Updates

    Discussion in 'Dell XPS and Studio XPS' started by atlstang, Dec 27, 2009.

  1. Nightshade72

    Nightshade72 Notebook Enthusiast

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    Interesting.. A03 without TS has the lowest scores, but with TS has the highest (except for CPU performance)

    If it's not stopping the throttling, I don't see a reason to install A05.. We may be stuck waiting for them to release a bios to fix the issue.. right now, looks like they are just releasing whatever they have handy to look like they are working on it.

    Funny thing is that I bet if they released a bios that would handle 130W PSU's and said that in gaming conditions, the user can upgrade (and offered a reduced cost for the upgrade) that most of us would just pay the little extra.. I have already bought two 130W power supplies.. they are cheap on ebay.. and even under normal load, they run a lot cooler..

    With TS, I have to say that I am satisfied with the 1645.. I would prefer that this functionality be put into the bios so that we don't have to circumvent it.. but can get decent performance playing crysis... doesn't overheat.. is fairly quiet..

    One thing anyone notice that the hot air exit port on the back of the laptop heats up the LCD pretty good if you open it too far.. were they thinking? should have pivoted it down another 15 degrees to clear the bottom of the LCD when open..

    reminds me.. off to make the donation in PP... throttlestop is definitely worth a few beers.
     
  2. ViperMike

    ViperMike Notebook Enthusiast

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    Does anyone know how the screen compares in the Sony F, the Envy 15 Vs the XPS 1645 RGB LED?
     
  3. 2by4

    2by4 Notebook Consultant

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    The below statements were made by Dell support as of yesterday 1/16/2010 about the Throttling issue with the 1645 which is in the Dell Forum.





    FYI, just wanted to inform everybody of these answers.
     
  4. Glaaki

    Glaaki Notebook Enthusiast

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    Not very promising are they. :-(
     
  5. Mitchell2.24v

    Mitchell2.24v Notebook Evangelist

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    So basically it is a defective design.

    How to contradict yourself, lesson 1. What's there to fix if it was designed to behave like this?
     
  6. n3verm0re

    n3verm0re Notebook Consultant

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    I think this is more a matter of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing... Most people at Dell seem genuinely ignorant of this issue, and while some do take the time to research the throttling issues, others seem much more content to say whatever is necessary to get you off the phone.
     
  7. ikjadoon

    ikjadoon Notebook Deity

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    I don't trust reps on this issue at all. At least a manager and/or higher-up.

    ~Ibrahim~
     
  8. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    I guess that's true. They designed a system to throttle like crazy and it does just that. Shipping one of these with an under powered, over heating 90 watt adapter instead of a 120 watt adapter or better like their competition at HP include with their Core i7 Quad core laptops is a very poor design choice to make.

    It's fine to set a low performance bar but it's time that they admit to what they are doing on their sales page before buyers fork out $1500 or $2000 for an XPS 1645 that throttles and slows down without any warning to the end user.
     
  9. yejun

    yejun Notebook Deity

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    I think all dell rep are programmed to say the same thing. 3 different dell tech support told me exact same thing since last Christmas. I didn't even mention anything about game or 130w adapter, just barely mentioned poor performance. They started to copy paste text like this and said 130W adapter will damage my system.
     
  10. FasterInside

    FasterInside Newbie

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    I'm reading this topic back home in The Netherlands about the throttling issue for a few weeks now, and ordered an Studio XPS 16 at the 6th. I am confident that Dell would solve this problem.

    But i have one question though. I was wondering if you people still have the problem off disconnecting the poweradapter and 'blow up' you laptop/adapter. Is this still the issue or is it a solved one?

    If it works fine and Dell doesn't come soon with a solution, i do would consider to purchase a 130w adapter in combination with the superb programm ThrottelStop (Thanx!).

    Thanks in advance.

    Greetings from the Holland land :) !
     
  11. Mitchell2.24v

    Mitchell2.24v Notebook Evangelist

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    I have had this once (my adapter), and have backed off the extreme loads since then. In the past I have had a 90W adapter die on me (with a E1705/9400), so I'm going to be carefull with them now.

    Lol @

     
  12. FasterInside

    FasterInside Newbie

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    Sorry, dubblepost....
     
  13. FasterInside

    FasterInside Newbie

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    Watch the commercial about TopGear @ Veronica, you dutchmen will understand :D

    I see youre a Dutch guy to, where did you buy the 130watt? I only can find a refurbished one or one with a English 3-way connection.... :confused:
     
  14. Mitchell2.24v

    Mitchell2.24v Notebook Evangelist

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    Yes, that's why I had to laugh :D

    I haven't bought it yet. I do have my eye on on from Ebay. I believe it is from France. But actually I think Dell should provide me with a proper adapter. That's why I've been waiting to buy one. Once I have a strong enough case I will just let Dell send me one.
     
  15. bfarmer

    bfarmer Notebook Enthusiast

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    Well, things seem to have slowed down here in this thread. No new answers from Dell and benchmarks still show there is a problem that Dell isn't answering.

    About two weeks ago I got a return approval from Dell for my defective XPS 1645. Received my shipping tag, waiting and hoping that we would have more response from Dell engineers and a solution to our problem. But I haven't returned the machine and, at this point, have ordered a PA-15 and as soon as I get it will use ThrottleStop (with a donation) and use my machine to its full potential.

    I guess Dell is getting what they want. Many have returned their machine and are just waiting to see what happens with the next model - or better yet - aren't pestering them anymore because they will buy a different brand that throttles in a different way and will be bothering that manufacturer. Some of us have just accepted that we have a third-party solution and will fix it our own way - and so we don't bug them as much either - even though they at least owe us a power supply. And then there are all of the others who couldn't care less because their computer does all that they need it to do and don't know any better.

    I guess what I'm saying is that the immediacy that we all hoped would fix the throttling is dragging along and may never be fixed. So what do we do now?
     
  16. Zlog

    Zlog Notebook Deity

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    At this point the choice is pretty clear to me:

    1) You keep the laptop and "Deal with it" which is what Dell is hoping you do.

    2) You return the laptop and make sure they understand that you are returning it for this reason so that they know they can't keep screwing their customers over.

    I chose option 2.
     
  17. ikjadoon

    ikjadoon Notebook Deity

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    I've sent 4 emails to the Dell guys, oldest was 9 days ago, earliest was a couple of hours ago.

    No response...
     
  18. ViperMike

    ViperMike Notebook Enthusiast

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  19. ikjadoon

    ikjadoon Notebook Deity

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    Haha, that's an option. But, the emails I have are for exactly the guys who have my system and are testing it.

    If no reply by tomorrow night (which is a business day!), I'll forward the whole issue to good old Mike.

    ~Ibrahim~
     
  20. Zlog

    Zlog Notebook Deity

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    May as well just do it now. You and I both know you wont get one :p
     
  21. ikjadoon

    ikjadoon Notebook Deity

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    Hahaha, I have a teeny bit of hope. That tiny bit is surrounded by the truth, but there is some tiny bit left.

    But, fine, I'll forward the emails to him now.
     
  22. slrosenfeld

    slrosenfeld Notebook Guru

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    Hi guys. For what its worth, I've e-mailed Dell sale/customer service (and cc'd Michael Dell) telling letting them know that they lost a sale on an XPS 1645 due to their lack of adequate respone to all of you folks here suffering with the throttling issue. I realize they may not care, but like many others have said here, the only think likely to make them take action is a dent in the bottom life. One lowly customer doesn't make much difference, but ther more people who complain, the more likely they'll take notice. Good luck with your ongoing struggle. I'll let you know how it works out for me with the Sony. No doubt as a brand new model, it will have it's own share of problems (hopefully no throttling--it ships with a 120 watt power supply). Here's the e-mail I sent:

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Dell Direct" <[email protected]>
    To: [email protected]
    Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 3:01:24 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
    Subject: Scott, You've Saved Items in Your Dell Shopping Cart. Don't Let the Savings Disappear!

    Hi. Thanks for reminding me about my shopping cart. However, I have decided not to buy the XPS 1645 for several reasons. First, there still seems to be no option for a Blu Ray drive. Second, I've been closely following the power throttling issue on your user forum here: http://en.community.dell.com/forums/t/19306277.aspx?PageIndex=11 , and the similar thread on notebook forums here: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=446193&page=52. There does not seem to be straightforward acknowledgment from Dell about this excruciatingly well documented problem, nor an apparent acceptable fix. I do not want to be one of these many disappointed XPS 1645 owners with an otherwise excellent laptop which can't perform to it's full potential. I've decided to buy the Sony Vaio VPCF1190X. For the same price as the XPS 1645 I configured here, I'm getting an identically configured laptop with an Blu Ray burner and a 120 watt power supply. With Sony, I also have the very appealing option of "Fresh Start" where I receive a computer free from add on software installed by the manufacturer. I mention this because I really wish Dell offered such an option. As you may be aware from the user forums, most power users of the XPS 1645 start right off by wiping their systems clean of the unwanted software and doing a fresh install. For those of us who know our way around the computer, but may not have the time or desire to do a wipe and fresh install, getting the computer in a clean state from the manufacturer is a welcome alternative. In fact, even if everything else was equal between my two choices for a new laptop (same price, specs, performace etc) I would choose the Sony over the Dell purely for this option. I'm taking the time to write you this e-mail, because I really wanted to buy the XPS 1645. I did a lot of research and it really did come out on top for what I was looking for. Though you lost my business this time, I'm hoping that as a company you can become more responsive to the "front lines" users of your high end systems and that I might be able to return to Dell for my next notebook. Thanks for your time. Scott."
     
  23. EndlessBliss

    EndlessBliss Notebook Enthusiast

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    Well, I have given up and ordered a PA-4E off eBay. Much better than spending an hour a day on hold trying to get a hold of my rep. If anyone else in Canada is interested, this is the cheapest I could find for price + shipping. Keep in mind that there's a PA-15 for $30.99, and several PA-13s, but I really wanted the slim adapter.

    I apologize; I think this has been brought up before, but I'm still curious. Is it possible to undervolt the 720QM processor with ThrottleStop, or by any other means? The screenshot on the first page shows a "Voltage ID" setting (albeit greyed out), so I was wondering.

    Thanks! This community and its posts have been immensely helpful.
     
  24. Zlog

    Zlog Notebook Deity

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    That is a very well-worded Email, slrosenfeld.

    Cheers!
     
  25. wq3breli

    wq3breli Newbie

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    Hi,

    First of all thanks to everybody who did contribute to the documentation. I was ready to pull the trigger on the studio XPS. However, due to this issue I am hesitating although I desperately need a new notebook.

    For what its worth: The German computer magazine c't is going to publish an extended test on i7 notebooks soon (2 weeks from now). I wrote them and asked to look into this issue (and test other notebooks for similar practices). I also pointed them to the results in this thread.

    The c't is quite "influential and big" in the Germany (and probably Austria and Switzerland.) If\when they pick this up and ask Dell for a statement it might trigger some thinking at Dell. But, well, maybe not.

    Cheers

    Breli
     
  26. daraj

    daraj Notebook Deity

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    So here comes Monday, any word on the street or on Dell's website?
     
  27. FasterInside

    FasterInside Newbie

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    No, not a word from Dell Netherlands...
     
  28. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    EndlessBliss: Unfortunately the ThrottleStop Voltage ID option is only enabled for Core 2 CPUs. Intel changed how VID works in the newer Core i7/i5/i3 CPUs and there is no publicly documented way to adjust voltage on the fly like you could do with the previous Core 2 generation. When asked, Intel said this is no longer possible.
     
  29. blueorbit

    blueorbit Notebook Enthusiast

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    Well, I just got a call from tech support (India), who is handling my complaint about this system. The guy said that the BIOS upgrade they promissed failed to resolve the issue (after internal testing) and it would be another 3-4 weeks before resolution. He mentioned that they are checking with component manufacturers globally and that this is delaying the fix (could it be that they are checking all components for the ability to handle a higher voltage?). Anyways, I am sending this system back for a full refund. I got an offer to purchase any other system with a discount or free upgrades. Not sure if I will be going with Dell again after this experience.
     
  30. ikjadoon

    ikjadoon Notebook Deity

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    Dell guys replied.

    Engineers know the BIOSes didn't work, are still working hard. Now the issue has been brought to some executives and they're formulating the response or whatever: these executives are the reason things slowed down a bit as this is the planning stage of "What now?" Don't know where it's going, but, yeah, that's where we are.

    More updates promised soon. :)
     
  31. wezley_91

    wezley_91 Notebook Guru

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    can anyone give me an email to contact dell about this issue, the ones that i have tried from the manual won't work. I'm from canada if that makes a difference.

    thanks
     
  32. bfarmer

    bfarmer Notebook Enthusiast

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    Ikjadoon,

    Thanks for the update. It is really nice to know that maybe they are saying "what now?" instead of us. Glad to hear they are promising more updates soon.

    Maybe you're right about having a teeny bit of hope.
     
  33. Fenikkusu

    Fenikkusu Notebook Evangelist

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    Unclewebb I'm experiencing an issue using TS 1.8 I'm wondering if anyone can reproduce it or has experienced it. I've been using TS and playing games on my comp and I don't bother with the sleep workaround since some of the games I play I play with an external controller (avoiding the issue) however I notice that when I quit the game and go back to using my touchpad and keyboard my clock modulation goes to 12.5% everytime I touch it (as if I were gaming) it's very odd. I had to put the computer to sleep to stop it.
     
  34. Zlog

    Zlog Notebook Deity

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    Fenikkusu, that touchpad issue has been like that with me since 1.0 just like the keyboard.

    Sleep is the solution.
     
  35. Fenikkusu

    Fenikkusu Notebook Evangelist

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    I know about that but the reason I mentioned it is because it's happening after I'm done gaming. Or has that been around for a while? I'm not sure.
     
  36. Zlog

    Zlog Notebook Deity

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    You've got me second guessing now.... but I THINK I've always had a little wonky performance from the touchpad and keyboard with TS running AFTER TS had preventing the system from throttle.

    Seems the input lag wont happen initially in games until you hit that point where TS starts telling dell to shove it :)
     
  37. Fenikkusu

    Fenikkusu Notebook Evangelist

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    I'll just make sure to use the sleep workaround from now on then, to save myself the trouble lol
     
  38. ikjadoon

    ikjadoon Notebook Deity

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    Haha, yeah, that's true. We'll see what develops....

    ~Ibrahim~
     
  39. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    Fenikkusu: With bios A05, I heard that Dell fixed the keyboard / sleep bug. If that's true then that's a good sign that ThrottleStop wasn't the cause of this problem.

    After gaming do you turn off ThrottleStop? Is that when you see a clock modulation of 12.5%? If ThrottleStop is still running after your game then any throttling down to to 12.5% should be corrected in the blink of an eye.

    If ThrottleStop is only monitoring and it drops down to 12.5% then I guess the computer is trying to cool itself off after gaming. It's pointless to do this but when it comes to cooling, there are a few things these computers do that are pointless.

    Give me a few more details if I haven't answered your question.
     
  40. Fenikkusu

    Fenikkusu Notebook Evangelist

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    TS is still running after gaming and I try to raise clock modulation to 100% but it goes back to 12.5% which is strange. So I closed TS put the computer to sleep and it went away.
     
  41. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    Fenikkusu: Is Clock Modulation checked in ThrottleStop? It sounds like it's not checked so ThrottleStop is only in monitoring mode. If it's checked then it should be reading 100% or whatever you have it set to.
     
  42. Fenikkusu

    Fenikkusu Notebook Evangelist

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    It's checked when it's happening.
     
  43. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    If you can make this happen again, can you run a ThrottleStop log file and send it my way? That doesn't make too much sense to me.
     
  44. Fenikkusu

    Fenikkusu Notebook Evangelist

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    I'll try it again tomorrow and send you the log.
     
  45. slrosenfeld

    slrosenfeld Notebook Guru

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    Thanks Zlog. Hope it helps. Good Luck. Scott.
     
  46. slrosenfeld

    slrosenfeld Notebook Guru

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    Uncle Webb--sorry if this has been asked and answered elsewhere--can TS help with the laptops that throttle when on battery but not plugged in, like the Envy 15, and now apparently the new Sony Vaio F?
     
  47. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    slrosenfeld: I'm not sure if ThrottleStop can help with this. That seems like a bios bug. Do you know what their tech departments have to say about this?
     
  48. ViperMike

    ViperMike Notebook Enthusiast

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    Send an email to [email protected]. This will avoid the frustration of dealing with techs that know nothing about the issue.
     
  49. slrosenfeld

    slrosenfeld Notebook Guru

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    The Sony tech support guy I talked to a few days ago had never heard of this computer. Then he looked it up and said "Oh yeah that's a new one, just out this week--they haven't sent us the specs on that yet" Not very encouraging. I've heard some on the Sony forum say that you have much better luck if you call tech support after hours and get the crew from Singapore. Maybe I'll try that once my Vaio F arrives. PS. I saw that you've been discussing this recently with the folks on the HP Envy 15 site. With Dell having gotten power right on battery, and HP and Sony getting it right on AC it seems that it's possible to produce a fully functioning core i7 notebook. Hope someone manages it soon. Thanks for all your help.
     
  50. fmac

    fmac Notebook Evangelist

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    Wow, this hole throttling problem is bigger than I thought, now HP and Sony are getting problems too..
     
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