S-XPS 1645 Throttling Info. and Updates

From what I understand in my limited forays into the sony and hp lounges, the HP and Sony laptops with the i7 are getting the throttling on battery power only, (on ac adapter they are fine) and that it is a design feature from the latop's manufacturer, intended to save on battery life. the problem lies in the inability to disable this "feature."

 

I'd perfer it that way over Dell's way. I want full power when plugged in for sure. Dell fix this please.

Or better yet Dell, Open some line of comunication with us. Feels almost like the problem is being ignored, and that doesn't look good to people trying to research this laptop.

 

From the dutch forum about the ThrottleGate, there was a question.

Is it dangerous to disconnect the adapter while using TS? When you are using TS, the Dell asks more than the 90watt the battery can provide.

Thanxk,

Greetz from Holland.

 

NEVER run Throttlestop with Dell's 90W Power Supply. (Dell PA-3 130W at least)

NEVER disconnect the Power Supply, while Thottlestop is running and the laptop is under load.

Otherwise, you will end up with an expensive brick.

 

They are trying to cram in there the newest technologies and the faster than before and faster uses more power and energy and generates more heat, thus they need to balance the heat by sacrificing something else?

I think they need to redesign the sucker from scratch to allow better airflow.

 

Maybe they should collaborate and out it we'd get something functional

 

I emailed [email protected]
today, asking for updates on the bios or about an upgrade on my system etc.
Doubt I will get a reply though, as I am a U.K customer..

 

I received a phone call from "Dell corporate offices" almost immediately after sending an email to the Michael Dell Address. I explained the reasons I returned my computer including the throttling issue (he tried to explain it away as a computer slowing down as it gets older, so obviously no clue there) and the lack of blu-ray (he told me it was a compatibility issue and that was why it has been pulled from all Dell lines, though all other Dell reps have said it was an availability issue). So, expect to be contacted, but don't expect much useful info.

 

You can tell these Dell reps are having a lot of fun with us. Imagine that guy in the lunch room with his fellows right now....

"So I explained to him that like a man, a computer slows down as it ages... "

It's pretty obvious they are being told to just say whatever the hell they have to to get us off the phone. It's actually kind of funny to get scammed like this in a Three Card Monte kind of way...

 

yea i recieved an email from dell.
Not from micheal though, from a rep in dell asia.

Asked for order number coontact details.
Emailed them back including these details.

I'm expecting a phonecall tomo from the rep...which i'm not looking forward to...for obvious reasons of course lol.

 

Hi everyone,

My name is Todd and I work with Brad and a few others on Dell’s laptop forums. I wanted to stop in to let you know that we’ve been following these threads, here on NBR and other forums, and we’re actively looking at this issue. We’re currently waiting for some additional information from our engineering team and we hope to post more information soon on Direct2Dell.

 

Are you going to release a BIOS fix after this laptop is discontinued or dell will try to release before it gets discontinued?

 

The end of this system doesn't mean the end of support for it. (or necessarily any of our systems). We generally continue to post BIOS revisions and other drivers / updates for a period of time for our discontinued models through our sustaining quality engineering team.

 

Do you have a solid date for a bios release. Plus, any new on possible adapters swap?

 

An another question. Are you aware of the 1747 7beep problem and the throtteling issue?

 

No, I do not.

 

Yup. There is a long thread about it on our Dell Community Forums.

 

Hi Todd,

thank you very much for joining us. Also from The Netherlands we are concerned about the Throttling issue and are in desperate need of a solution. Glad Dell is paying attention to this.

Greetz from Holland!

 

Dell Todd S,

Can you confirm in the new firmware being worked on allows a power draw greater than 90 watts (assuming an adapter greater than 90 watts) before any throttling kicks in?

Is Dell Considering offering 130 or 150 watt power supplies to existing customers (and/or new customers)?

Thank you!

 

Another question for the general public? Would a i7 820 draw more power than an i7 720? When/if I rebuy another Studio XPS 16, I'm thinking about upgrading to the 820, but only if I'd actually see more performance out of the 820 (if the 820 causes throttling to kick in faster, then it is a questionable upgrade in performance).

 

That's great you guys are responding, please keep the lines of communication open. It's the only why I will refrain from returning my laptop and I'm sure a lot of people feel the same way. If you don't keep us informed the only way out of the absence of information is by returning it and not worrying about it.

Just please don't toy with us and tell us a Core I7 is supposed to slow down to 7X when under load or any of that. We all know the score.

 

If a 90 watt adapter is not adequate to fully power a Core i7-720 and an ATI 4670 at the same time then it's not going to be powerful enough for a Core i7-820 either.

You might want to consider other manufacturers that understand this problem and use 120 watt adapters and up.

 

Understood, but will the 820 throttle worse than the 720 (i.e. will it draw more power just because it is an 820)?

What other manufacturer offer a slot loading blu-ray burner, i7 support, 1GB+ video card, back-lit keyboard, decent sound, and high-end screen in a sleek laptop? I'd be fine going elsewhere, but there are no real options.

I considered the Envy, but I can't even find a good external blu-ray burner for it. In addition, the keys aren't back-lit, the touchpad lacks buttons, and it is supposed to give off heat like a furnace.

I suppose the new Sony F series has potential, but the screen and sound aren't supposed to be that great (no slot load either, but I could live with that).

Truly, what I want is a fixed Studio XPS 16 (or something else new that hasn't come out yet). If only Dell would make the fixes we need...

 

I thought you ordered a HP envy? what would a bios update or a new adapter for a dell have anything to do with HP?

 

I'll repost this here since it's likely to be deleted from Dell's forums:

Hi Todd,

While this is great to hear that someone at Dell finally believes there is an issue, the problem is that we've been given one of two answers - "There is no issue with that model" or "Our engineers are working on it and will have a fix soon".

The fix is already here as well as at NBR - Dell just needs to implement it.

Anybody I speak to or email with at tech support goes through the following steps:

1.) Having me repeat this same issue, due to either not reading the notes, or not taking notes on my service tag

2.) Explaining that they cannot exchange it for anything from the small business line like the Latitude, because its a "different business unit"

3.) Denying that there is any kind of issue and offering me either a refund on the system or an identical (in other words flawed) system, which I have explained while better than nothing, this does nothing to compensate for the $2000 or so in IT costs that this machine has incurred for my client, or the fact that they have been without a working laptop since September of last year. This of course includes the two month wait when we initially purchased it until it arrived.

I've been told weekly since the beginning of December that there is a BIOS update coming out within a week, and then had the very same dell rep tell me 3 weeks later he never told me that.

Every rep I have spoken to seems to not be able to care any less about the 30-50,000 a year I spend on Dell equipment.

I'm working on putting together a class action lawsuit against Dell on this issue, so if anybody in the USA is interested, please let me know.

 

Those are the same reasons I went with the XPS. I've had tablets in the past and it's a pain to carry around the DVD drive. Plus the screen looks great on this thing. I just received my 130W adapter today. Haven't done too much with it yet but with TS running, I'm extremely happy with the XPS now.

 

Am I obliged to tell you my plans?

 

lmao he made you sound like an outsider or something.

 

Like a traitor?? lool.. Some people man.

 

loll yeah like an XPS defector. :laugh:

 

I am completely fed up with the XPS 1645. Was already annoyed with the whole throttling thing but now the laptop also freezes when I try to stream videos online. Their support line is TERRIBLE. Wasted 30 minutes explaining the problem and ended up getting disconnected. Who should I contact for a refund? I am outside the 21 days period. Thanks.

 

With questions like "Are you going to release a BIOS fix after this laptop is discontinued or dell will try to release before it gets discontinued?" How can anyone take you seriously? why even ask? I was just asking if you care or if your just here to post crap like that.
Defector...lool..

 

Im not going to sink to your level but Let me tell you something, whether I care or dont its completely not your business, whether I ordered an Envy or comodore its still not your business. I asked this question because my gf has an xps 16 and im very much interested in getting one once its resolved. The only crap i see here is your post that brought nothing to this thread but wasted bandwidth. Im fed up just like most here with Dell delaying the issue to be fixed and reps lying and giving us the run around. We need answers and we have questions. You need to chill and stop polluting this technical thread with your negativity. Jeeez

 

We don't need answers, just results. The legwork has been done and the remedy to the throttling issue has been figured out by the unclewebb guy. They should have their engineers consult with him on what to do. If they did that this problem would have been moot last month and this thread would have turned into a lot of cheering instead of jeering.

 

I thought it was a valid question. As at this point there really is no stupid questions, as we know nothing about whats going on dell's side. If there was a question that is considered "stupid" it just goes to show how confused we are on dell's side of the issue. All are welcome as well to this thread, i mean unclewebb doesnt even have a 1645 himself.

So we have a new dell guy, saying theyre going to make a statement. Take note we've heard this before about a month ago. This issue has been going on for so long, and we have never gotten anything official. After so long, if they actually do make a statement on direct2dell. It would seem perhaps this issue has spread and that people are starting to make returns and that they are finally taking notice that it wont just go away. I doubt they would ever admit that though.


To Usuyami explain to the reps your problem and how its an overall problem, and tell them you just cant deal with the problems right now. And im pretty sure you can get your refund, although it may take a bit of your time on the phone unfortunately to do all that.

 

Yeah, I've been putting some pressure on the Dell guys to be more a bit more involved in the community, cue in random Dell dude here.

Something good happened today, not sure what, though. Must have been important, Bill wanted to call me to tell me, but I was in class at the time.

I think, atlstang, that a little more hope wouldn't be out of line. The ball is past rolling, it's pretty much at the top of the hill and sooner or later it'll be zooming down the bottom (and, to complete this analogy, all of us with our SXPS 1645's are having a party on the bottom of the hill).

Now it's with the management who are developing the response (with our captured laptops).

TBH, I never saw any of this happen with the E6400 issue. I am no expert at all of what's happening with the Envy's flipped throttle issue, but I doubt they're as far as we are to an official solution (not to mention we have TS, too!).

~ibrahim~

 

Will we be crushed by this rolling ball of doom? Or is it more like a volleyball and full of air?

 

LOL....yeah, volleyball is a good way to think of it. And we'll use our SXPS 1645's, which won't throttle, to play a friendly game.

Or, alternatively, it could be a massive bowling ball and we're the poor pins, haha.

 

For users returning their XPS 1645 and are being encouraged to exchange it for an XPS 1640 that doesn't have any throttling problems; think again.

Here's a couple of lines from mjbilla's log file of his XPS 1640 while running a P8600 and an ATI 3670.

Code:

  DATE       TIME        MULTI        C0%       CKMOD        CHIPM      DTS
01/18/10    22:24:08      9.02       31.3       100.0        100.0       41
01/18/10    22:51:14      3.00       88.7       100.0        100.0       23

While gaming the effective multiplier has dropped down to 3.0 so this 2400 MHz laptop is now running at 800 MHz. Dell has dropped the multiplier down to 6.0 and then also enabled SLFM (Super Low Frequency Mode) which internally cuts the bus speed in half.

Throttling laptops are nothing new to Dell. By continuing to include 90 watt adapters, this problem won't be going away anytime soon.

 

ikjadoon, i didnt mean to rain on the parade. Just wanted to make sure all the new people knew that this has been said before. Though i do believe they may actually do something this time. Though i dont think it right we should have todo a bunch of "pushing" to get them to do anything.

1640 throttling too, ill add that to the list. I dont mean to be a downer, if the 1645 were the only laptops having the problem then i probably would of held out longer. But im sending this one back, maybe come back down the line when dell gets their design priorities straight.

 

Is it just not as wide-spread/problematic with the SXPS 1640? I mean, I felt like many sites (and users) praised the SXPS 1640 for its superior performance. No mention of throttling, ever, I don't think.

@atlstang

Sorry about my wording, I didn't mean to sound so sharp. Really, who am I to tell people that some thing is "out of line"? I just meant hope wouldn't be such a bad thing. But, yeah, we've been down this road before. But this time, I think I see the light at the end of the tunnel.

 

I remember when doing the research for the 16 series, people mentioned stuttering in games. It was a concern, but it seemed like a driver issue or somethin at the time. After the 1645 and throttlegate, ive been second guessing that. Who knows though, C2D are very different beasts on how it would affect the users. Could be only the higher end ones too. Would probably need to see more testing done :-/

Im optimistic theyll make an announcement, and even resolve some of the issue for the most part. But with their throttle happy designs im not as optimistic it will be what we considered fully resolved. At least throttlestop will always be there to fill in the gap. Any improvement is 100% better

 

People at the notebookcheck.net reviewed it here and they raised a concern for dropping performance during gaming. They were not able to interpret it though. They also mentioned that they found the same problem in an Acer with 4670 and thought it was a GPU chipset problem.

 

"However, reports in view of studders in various games have been confirmed by single users."
quote from the notebookcheck review you where talking about

 

As per a post on the dell forum, there are some people working on a law suit against dell for the throttling issue.

 

khaledseif: I was just working with users on the Acer forum the other day with their throttling laptops. The Acers use Chipset Clock Modulation just like the Dell Alienware M15x uses. ThrottleStop put an end to that real quick.

ikjadoon: I think what's been going on is that many laptops have been throttling for a long, long time but it's been difficult to quantify it and prove it. That's all changed recently. The more users that are starting to test while gaming are starting to learn the real reason why their frame rates are dropping down to a crawl. Core 2 CPUs running at 800 MHz instead of 2400 MHz is killing gaming performance just like Core i7 CPUs dropping the multiplier down to 7 and then kicking below the belt with some clock modulation.

 

Basically, in a really ignorant way to put it, we have all been suffering from throttling ever since mobile computing was born?
I think I will be happy with my future studio xps, I mean, with had this issue since ever and we didnt notice it until now..

Am I being a bit exaggerated, or is this really the situation?

 

You guys now have me wondering if my old Core 2 Duo Sony Vaio I've been using the last year or so has been throttling this whole time Has this really been going on that long? If so, maybe a class action lawsuit really is the way to go.

 

There is throttling in a lot of different laptops but there are also laptops that don't throttle at all. Now users can easily test for throttling and can decide if they're willing to accept that or they can decide to send their laptops back to their manufacturers for a refund and try to find a laptop that doesn't throttle.

The Latitude E6000 series came out in August 2008 and has been throttling ever since. It can drop down to as little as 5% of its rated performance. Class action lawsuit definitely comes to mind.

 

so basically, whoever have issue with throttling is out of luck.