S-XPS 1645 Throttling Info. and Updates

I've verified that this is being caused by the GPU being "throttled" from 675MHz down to 300MHz.

I've attached a log made using GPU-Z that shows the throttling of the GPU. The CPU on A07 w/ 130W is not being throttled. I'm going to do some more tests to see if PowerPlay and/or the driver I am using is initiating the throttling at the 80C level.

I am using the latest 8.7000xxxx drivers from strags.com and I have PowerPlay enabled.

 

This might be a dumb question on my part as I don't even have this laptop yet, but I notice in your log that it shows fan speed 30% consistently. Is that normal or is that something that can be adjusted? Was that set just for testing?

 

my card runs at least 12C cooler than yours under full load, how loud does your fan get? It seems that since A07 my fans kick in later...

 

Not to appear anal, but the throttling you are seeing when you've got good load happens when you hit 83 or 84 degrees which seems to be the threshold.

You can work around it using Rivatuner and just set it 1Mhz higher than default (this isn't really OC just forcing it to stay at those levels).

 

Nice. It seems to work quite well.

Thanks

 

30 is what it seems to always report but the fan sound increases so I assume it's not accurate or the laptop fan sound is coming from a different fan not on the GPU.

 

That's what I was thinking too. I wonder how hot it would actually get. Thanks for the rivatuner suggestion. I'll give it a try. The thing that bothers me is that it makes a huge jump from 675 down to 300. Why not decrease a little to decrease the temp and then find the sweet spot and stay at it?

I tested with PowerPlay disabled and I get 400MHz consistently and it doesn't go over the temp limit. It's actually easier to play at a consistent speed than the huge jump from 675 to 300. My plan is to find the sweet spot with RivaTuner and hopefully get this last issue resolved so I can actually not suck as much as I do when playing. See attached log.

John

 

There's a single fan in this laptop. Mounted on a heatstink connected to gpu and cpu by pipes.

 

I'm using the same drivers also. I wonder if re-installing the old drivers on the dell page will solve this problem?

 

I found the following at http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=5541436&postcount=13 which states:

Once I did that, I was able to click the down-right arrow next to customize under the adapter info and choose "low-level system settings".

Once in there, I could hit the fan tab or the overclocking tab. I did a quick test against the OC tab using GPU-Z and I verified, it works.

WARNING: Do not overclock your video card!

I'm going to do some testing to find the highest MHz rating I can hit before the temp gets too high and kicks it down to 300MHz.

John

 

Can the fan speed be set manually?

 

Studio XPS 1645 Owner's Lounge where you may ask questions about things other than throttling til your heart's content.

 

Thanks, but I was asking in relation to the throttling situation.

 

My i7-720 is getting up to 75 degrees C when playing MW. Is that too hot? Should I be concerned?

 

I'm hitting 85C playing MW2.

I just ran a test with 3DMark 06 and the max GPU temp it reached was 84C...

I'm seeing Studio XPS 1640 users with the Core 2 Duo and ATI Mobility Radeon 4670 1GB saying that they hit 70C Max running 3DMark 06.

My GPU is currently idling at 62C.

Any thoughts or input on the GPU throttling, or others temperature results on full load and on idle would be appreciated.

Thanks,

John

 

All the log reports till now point at throttling due to thermal thershold set into the new BIOS. Has any one seen the temp for HDD sensor? as it seems to be with the least thermal tolerance inside the laptop body. Ati has a safe range upto 100 c , someone stated. So, the only componets are the electronic part and HDD. here, by hdd i mean the non-sdd ones.
I would have tested it my self but dell INDIA is on the slooower side, they won't bother shipping the 130w adapter even after the BIOS update. Has any one from india got a 130w from dell yet ?

 

Long time back one person from India got an adapter from a supervisor named Ivan. I tried. They argue alot. As if they know it all lol.

I hope Bill makes an official announcement real soon so that all the global customers get their 130W AC Adapter.

 

Nothing on Direct2 Dell about 130w adaptors in the UK/Europe yet. I do hope it will be there tomorrow.

 

Hi all,

I guess most of you guys are Windows users, but in case anyone is interested, I've done a quick real-world comparison of A03-A07 CPU performance on Linux.

My test hardly touches the GPU at all, but rather I'm compiling a fairly large (C/C++) software stack with make -j20, to get some parallel building going on. This is a very relevant test for me, since I end up compiling this stack a lot for my work.

I have RGBLED screen on full brightness, and I'm running a 150W PSU. I've got frequency scaling enabled in Linux, and the cpufreq govenor is set to "performance". I booted from cold each time, and ran no other apps in the background to make it a fair comparison.

Anyway, here's some numbers:

A03 (on 150W AC): 18m2.543s
A03 (on battery): 12m16.776s

A07 (on 150W AC): 12m4.626s

I've also watched it with my little throttle monitor program, which does similar to Throttlestop, but on Linux, and I haven't seen any clock-modulation during my test on A07 (there was plenty on A03).

Like I say, I haven't done much with the GPU, but things look somewhat better for CPU-intensive tasks so far.

Btw, it's a REAL PAIN that Dell only provide a Windows BIOS updater. I had to buy an ESATA drive, and boot Windows from that, just to update my bloody BIOS! Are you listening Dell?

 

To people having throttling issues with the GPU there are a couple of things to consider: Your computer is shutting down because it is overheating, Dell isnt going to do anything about that. Regardless of thermal spec if the case temp is too high (your mobo temp) or your GPU temp exceeds what ATI’s specs; then the drivers will throttle down. Only way to help this is to remount your heat pipes to optimize heat flow. I remounted using Antec formula 5 (same as AS5) and the GPU idles at 48C and the CPU is in the low 40s. I will work on maxing out my temps but I can say with A06 my GPU maxes out at 70-72C. Another note: ATI only has beta win7 drivers available so maybe in a couple of months they will have better support for their mobility products.

 

What was your guy's temps before using A03 with throttlestop??? I know none of my temps really ever peaked at 85C on a good day, that was just gpu (cpu was like 80 or a little below). Which at the time was the same temps without running throttlestop as well, as with TS the fan was allowed to kick on an extra notch keeping the temps same.

Also to test thermal throttling, anyone using a notebook cooler?

 

My laptop throttles on battery.. average 10-15 fps drops seen while running on battery.. any ideas as to y its reversed in mine??

and another issue..
a new issue which i just noticed...
I use Batterybar Pro to monitor my laptop battery...

>>4 Days before THE BATTERY WEAR SHOWED "13.4% of 7650 mWh"
>>Yesterday THE BATTERY WEAR SHOWED "16.7% of 7650 mWh"
>>TODAy i see THE BATTERY WEAR SHOWED "20.1% of 7650 mWh"

i hardly keep my 90W adapter plugged in when shutdown and will charge/ discharge accordingly without charging too much (i mean plugged in when laptop is shutdown or something like that)

Any idea to why my battery is wearing out so fast????

i posted this in owners lounge but ppl hardly post there nowadays.. so thought of posting it here.. pls do forgive me..

 

Hehe, I was going to say this belongs in the owners lounge... I will check that thread again. And reply there.

 

Im not sure what the ACPI temperatures are in hardware monitor but my TZ01 is really high I dont know if this could play any role in throttling. Just at idle it is at 56C I have seen it go up to about 80C. Does anyone know what this is?

 

No, i have already spoken 4 times with different reps. but every one seems to be hearing this issue for the first time.

 

@06voy

You don't have to. It might be better for the long run, though.

@whoever said programs aren't being made

Then trust 3DMark '06 or Vantage.....made by FUTUREMark. But...Furmark. Whatever.

Hopefully this will be one of my last posts here. It was fun. /sarcasm

~Ibrahim~

 

My computer isn't shutting down. But if the throttle is from 675Mhz down to 300MHz, that's insane! Change the scheme to start out at a speed which will maintain the temps (of course it's more complicated than that) so that the 375Mhz drop is much less when it hits the threshold.

I ran mine clocked at 500MHz last night and it hovered around 80C which is about 5 degrees less than it would get when letting it do it's own thing. At least this way, I know what speed I'm getting and don't get killed in game because all of sudden my GPU decides it wants to cut performance by 55.5%.

I went back to the Dell supplied ATI Drivers and I still have the same issue. With Powerplay disabled it sits at 400MHz.

I'm going to continue to test more to see the max I can go without getting too hot.

The issue here is that if the system is getting that hot when running normal games such that it has to throttle by over 50%, then the system wasn't designed properly, imho. If people applying different thermal paste/compounds are seeing a dramatic decrease in temps, why isn't Dell doing this at the factory?

John

 

im lost in the mountains of posts here.
Can someone answer me a few questions please.

has the new BIOS been realeased?
Are U.K customers able to get thier 130w adapters for free yet?

Thanks

 

The A07 BIOS has been released for the Dell 1645. It's available at Dell's site.

 

Over in the Dell forums somebody has stated that they are from the UK and they have called XPS Tech Support which has sent him a 130W adapter. He spoke to the XPS Tech Support today 2/14/2010

Here is the Phone # they used: (0844 338 1888)

 

Hi again guys, so seems like the problem had been solved ? I know you guys are still doing some further tests but any chance of some results ? wouldnt mind seeing how the new BIOS helps.

On a seperate note, bought a Sager NP8690 today, understated yes! perormance wise should be a winner. Miss my old XPS though.

 

A UK customer over on the Dell forums has reported success in getting a 130w adaptor ordered today.

http://en.community.dell.com/forums/p/19306277/19656513.aspx?PageIndex=37

I've just called them on Dell Premium Technical Support (0844 338 1888), got India, I think, but they are aware of the issue, and my 130w is coming Tuesday.

And aware enough for them to make sure I knew I needed the A07 BIOS also, which is excellent service.

 

Not entirely correct. There are two separate heatpipes cooling each chip, but they terminate in the same heatsink. Therefore, up to the ability of the heatsink to dissipate heat, they might as well be completely independent. Only when one chip emits so much heat for such a long period of time that the fan cannot maintain equilibrium will the other chip begin to heat up, because that second heatpipe cannot get rid of its heat.

 

For comparison, when my proc gets upto 80C the GPU while idle only goes upto 60C, about a 10C increase from baseline.

 

Just applied arctic silver today. I think I did a better job on the cpu. I'm seeing about 3C difference (46C now when idle). GPU is about 1C (now 50C).

While playing Crysis, cpu is running low 70's and gpu around 78C. Sometimes GPU would hit 80C, but wouldn't stay there long.

 

My wife reports the same issue with the 130W adapter. It's not loose or anything and the dimensions of the plug itself are the same as the 90W... my current thinking is that the cord is thicker and heavier so it tends to pull out the plug a little easier.

 

Yea, I must have had it confused with another systems heat pipe design.

I'm still running tests, right now not running prime 95. I just sat through GTA4 for 10 min, no throttling, UT3, no throttling. I find with ATI's Power play disabled, the GPU only ran at 400mhz. That could have contributed to not throttling. Still don't know. Trying to find more of a correlation.

I'm going to go through some Crysis now.

 

Yea, I don't have a problem with the system shutting down if it over heats, just as long as that's not happening under normal conditions.

But say it cannot play a game for a couple of hours without shutting down while properly ventilated and room temps reasonable. Then that means the cooling method is not sufficient, and that is Dells fault. Right now that doesn't seem to be the case. Prime95+Game is one hell of a load.

However when I tested I had power play disabled, I discovered that with it disabled the GPU runs at 400 instead of 675. So I need to do more testing, but it was Valentine's day so I had to take a break and spend time with my girl.

 

Don't think I've read anyone's computer shutting down due to GPU temps. Someone had their CPU running at 92 degrees for awhile when theirs shutdown (like you said this is what it's meant to do).

Do you know if this apparent threshold with the GPU is ATI or Dell induced?

I'd hesitate a guess and say that not many people would be running the mobility drivers from the ATI site.

 

These results are very telling and an insight as to how the devious little minds at Dell work.


Here's how there power management algorithm really works.

They increase the power as little as posible each bios release until the noise from NBR and D2D dies down.


Obviously Dell are still limiting the power through the bios.

Currently, after much pressure, they are just letting enough power so you can get ok framrates in Crysis etc...


Aside from the fact that you are still not getting what was advertised,
what happens in the future when you really need those extra 20 Watts....


This whole thing stinks.

 

I live in Sydney Australia and can report that I got a call from DELL support today informing me that they are going to send out the 130W power supply. Should be here in 3 to 5 days. The technical support woman did not know that the bios had been released, but did know that when it was released she could send out the power supply.

We seem to be supported from the Phillipines and I have noticed that when dealing with some Asian cultures you have to make sure that you don't put them into the situation of losing "face". I managed to get her cooperation by acknowleging the difficulties of working in a large company like DELL and helping her find the information on this group and the DELL forum. She then had a way of responding to me with good service. My file was tagged so that she called back after the weekend and now she will call back on Friday to see if I got the power supply. I think this is good service, but I have learnt that putting Asian service people on the spot will never get them to admit they are wrong or in some cases respond. They will simply stop talking. They will,however, respond to sharing the responsibility of solving the problem. Indian culture is different again. I think Australians find it difficult to understand Indian English and I think something of the English Colonial heritage that seems to come through when support people address their clients irks us and makes us impatient with them. I am also sure that Australians in support roles annoy customers with some of their language/dialect and phone manner. Sometimes we can't see it because we are so emeshed in our own cultural values and expectations.

Thanks to hard work of the people of this group who quantified the power problem and stood firm in getting a response from DELL. I think Bill should be especially congratulated for going beyond the service manuals and engaging in parts of his organisation that could result in change and action.

Bill, if you can be heard, perhaps you might point out that good service people must be taught to use their manuals as guides not rule books. Engaging with customer and using the resources of the company to solve their problems and identifying and ironing out communication problems will make DELL service legendary. Call centres may be cheap but I think they cost companies big-time by loosing customer loyality.

Finally, it became clear that the solution to this problem became USA centric. The whole world is not located in the USA and I would have throught that the communication networks within DELL should have been able to alert all service areas within the same time frame. I don't believe that it is up to the customer to inform support staff that DELL engineering had fixed the problem. This causes their staff to loose "face". It is the company's communication processes, not the support staff, that were the problem in this situation. The left hand did know what the right hand was doing!

Renaldostheold

 

Agreed, great service so far. Just got of the phone with UK tech support and absolutely no issues getting them to send out a new adpater. However lets see what they send me, the older archiac, over weight and bulky brick or the newer and better slim-line adapter. Furthermore they did not ask (as yet) for the old 90W adapter to be returned. New 130W unit should arrive tomorrow which will be an excellent 24-36hour turn around if it does.

 

I very much believe its now a thermal threshold we are seeing on the 1645, I haven’t had any time to test, just play a lot of games but I do find that its throttling once the system warms up, not so much where you get unplayable frames or static in your sound, but enough to remove the "buttery" fps feeling.

I FINALY got Riva Tuner to work on windows 7 64bit, so I can use it to keep the video card forced hopefully, see what that does.

 

Same here. I had to wait about 8 mins to get through to a rep but he was courteous, knew about the problem and arranged for the 130W ac adaptor to be despatched to me. Hopefully I should have it tomorrow as well.

Nice one Dell and thanks to everyone on NBR who helped them resolve this issue!

 

Even better service; a tech called me this lunchtime, to update the 1645 to A07 over the phone for me.

I told him I was OK to do it myself (and the 1645 is currently in its baggie anyway), but I appreciated the offer.

Like you, I'm expecting the PA-4E/JU012, and not something slightly heavier than the laptop itself

And you get to keep the 90w adaptor, BTW.

 

Am I right to conclude that this is bios encoded?

Then either...

1. They are protecting some component from failure which strongly suggests that Dell never designed this laptop to run with an adapter greater than 90w and thus never intended you to run this machine as advertised.
   
2. If they are not protecting a component from failure then they are just limiting power to help keep their "our laptops are the most energy efficient available"
   image intact
   

Dell are now telling owners of the studio 1745 over on the D2D studio 17 thread, that their systems were never designed for CPU and GPU to be able to work fully at the same time.

Finally some truth from Dell with them admitting that they intentionally crippled these laptops.


This is a scandal that the media should investigate.

 

CALLING ALL FOLKS FROM (OR) IN INDIA:

Just got off the phone with Dell Customer Care INDIA. And my new 130W adapter is coming in 2-3 working days.....

All you have to say to them is that you are experiencing "THROTTLING BIG TIME" and also that you have updated to the latest BIOS - A07 and put in some extra spices and your new adapter will be well on its way in no time.....

Go on... Make the call.. DELL XPS CUSTOMER CARE: 080-25108066..

My special thanks to NBR , Bill, Todd & Bradd, who helped people convey their misery with their new laptop.

A very special thanks to UNCLEWEBB who helped us recognize the level of throttling done to this "beast". Without throttlestop & NBR most of 'em would have not known about what throttling itself is. Thanx a lot man. Appreciate the help. Gonna donate right away!!!

Back to SNOOZE mode!!!

 

quietcat, do us all a favor and just stop posting..

 

Please review posts from previous pages, Im not going to find them for you.

GPU threshold is an on chip limit. Not related to drivers (although they have a hand in down clocking). Almost all chips now days have thermal protection.

No sure what you are trying to say; but if you check the release dates you will notice ATI released the drivers 9/9/09 and Dell has a release date of 9/23/09. The discrepancy could only be related to testing and validation on Dells side. Hence, the drivers are beta.




On a side note: To the people trying to play Crysis and other high end games. You do realize that the 4670 series is equilivent to a 9600GT Nvidia card. More to the point, the 4670 is not really Crysis compatible (it doesnt have the horsepower). This card can push good HD but I wouldnt call it a 'gaming' card.

 

He is not entirely incorrect on the situation. His statements are a valid, if not a bit over the top on some things. Unfortunately the hopes for this 130w + A07 bios could have been a total without worry fix. But as you can see theyre still limiting the wattage for a reason. Other manufacturers dont do this, and it is a bit worrying for the future proofness of such a laptop.

Im glad its generally better maybe even fixed for some people. But i wouldnt say he is incorrect saying the laptop was designed around the adapter and not the adapter designed around the laptop :-/, most likely some components in there etc arent up to spec for the system theyre powering.