S-XPS 1645 Throttling Info. and Updates

OK. I'm back. (Had a good vacation by the way.) Would anyone mind summarizing what I missed? Like it looks like there are a new set of bios? And do I need to request the 130W adapter once I received my XPS 1645 or when its shipped or preferably right now before it ships? (The 1640 that had originally been ordered, got cancelled, so I upped to the 1645 [technically my parents did, but I'm still paying for part of it anyway{my surprise birthday present got blown anyway}]) Does this fix seem like an actual fix?

 

Thanks, but my W7 isn't (yet) a version with enough juju to allow that. Though I hear good reports of Virtual Box.

Just imagine though - throttling two OSes at once!

 

You had me at 'shoot them'

 

fixed but not totally

Dells giving out the 130w adapters now. The bios A07 allows around a 110w from the wall draw, upping about 10w from A06. Although we have seen peaks above 110w approx 115w or so, it seems good enough for most current games. Although games such as dirt 2 etc seem to peak that limit and cause stuttering for some users. It would seem perhaps the rgbled screens will see this more often. There may be some gpu thermal limits in bios being reached as well.

I would recommend a laptop cooler to anyone doing gaming for extended periods of time.

 

If I were working for DELL I would file petition to fire the whole research and development team for Studio XPS 1340 and 1645 including top person that signed final document "...passed safety standards and its ready to use".

 

sorry should have put original message in different thread

 

LMFAO :laugh: Can we start a thread requesting the immediate removal of the Dell engineering team?

 

To perform as advertised,

this laptop needs around 100W DC instead of what A07 gives us which is around 80W DC.


Or another way to look at it from the a/c side of things at the wall outlet,

this laptops needs around 138W AC instead of what A07 gives us which is around 110W AC


The reason Dell doint want us to know how many watts A07 delivers is that it would show that the laptop still underperforms

 

Aha. Thank you very much atlstang! I think I should be alright then, because I won't have the RGBLED to contend with. Its nice to know DELL has at least done something more concrete then what has been experienced over the past few months.

 

Bill (or was it Brad?) - but a Dell rep anyway - said there was a limit of 75w DC draw on A03 and before. Empirically, that seemed to equate with a 90w AC draw as measured by a Kill-A-Watt. But I can understand why Dell need to quote only the DC side, as other factors can or may make the AC draw vary.

I surmise the conversations in Dell went something like this:-

Engineers: "Hey, this 1645 runs *hot*! We need to re-engineer a whole slew of things to handle the i7".
Marketing: "Sorry fellas, no can do. It's gotta go out the door. Can't you limit the power it takes or something?"
Engineeers: "Well, yes, but the customer will notice if we do that".
Marketing: "Sure they won't. This is the fastest thing we do, even cut back a bit. Say a third?"
Engineeers: "What, 75 watts? You wouldn't even need the 130w adaptor we've got lined up - the 90w would do".
Marketing: "Great! Safer, cooler, and a cheaper adaptor! What's not to like?"

Machines go out. Customers *do* notice.

Marketing: "Aw shoot. They noticed...."
Engineers: "Well, yeah. You cut performance by a third, but you didn't cut the price by a third. And the flagship is supposed to lead the fleet, not lag behind it because it simply can't keep up. *Now* will you let us redesign the cooling?"
Marketing: "Hell, no. We'd have every one of them come back. Can't you squeeze a bit more power through so it's not as bad, though?"

A06 launched.

Marketing: "Aw shoot. They still noticed..."
Engineers: (Enigmatic smile, saying nothing).
Marketing: "OK, what can you give them if we go back to the 130w?"
Engineers: "Well, a whole bit more. But not everything. Not with the heat from that vent frying the screen. Whose marketing survey came up with the idea that most users would run with the lid shut anyway?"
Marketing: "Yeah, but we hear the plain LED will put up with it better than the RGB. We can pull the RGB to stave off future problems".
Engineers: "Sure, but people have the RGB now. What happens for them?"
Marketing: "Hey, you design it, we'll worry about the customers. We'll set up a provision for replacements. And we'll let you look at redesigning that vent; just as long as the retooling costs aren't too expensive".
Engineers: "OK, guys, we're on it. Lotsa luck, and now it's a race against time for those RGB screens".

Just speculation, though

 

I do not want to disappoint you but even with regular WLED DELL STUDIO XPS 1645 does not perform per its specification and more or less throttling still exists along with other issue(s) overheating due poor vent design etc,......

 

It maybe okay for some users sure, but it is kind of a raw deal. Those who care seem to be returning the laptop anyways. Two main reasons is one futureproof concept kind of goes out the windows. As dirt 2 seems to eclipse this new threshold already. Two you would think the engineers would open up the thresholds and allow use of the 130w and have this issue done with, but they didnt. Can only conclude there is more to the limitation then just the adapter.

 

And just to put all this into perspective, this is not the only laptop that is underpowered.

There is a whole line of them.

 

It might be just a speculation but I would not be surprised thats what exactly happened along the lines.

I only wonder when and who brave enough at DELL will issue a major recall with XPS 1645 or EOC for it.

 

Yes, yes indeed. I was simply noting though, I don't have the additional draw like the RGBLED thereby not having a reason for as much as an issue. But I still wouldn't do any gaming without a cooling pad for my machine. And as for the "continued" throttling issues, for my uses personally I don't think it will be enough to effect me. . . DELL seems more-or-less on top of the issue now anyway (as is apparent by the continued correspondence from Bill [much thanks to him]) so hopefully it'll get looked over.

 

Why waste your money on CPU/GPU power that you paid for and cannot use?

 

Dell-Bill is doing great job, but I only hope DELL can hire more people to stay on top of such issues so they can be addressed accordingly with better results!

 

Kind of in a bind, I was all set to order a 1645 pretty much maxed out but have been completely turned off by these discussion. Plus I don't want to buy until there is some confirmation that new units are being shipped ready to go. If I'm going to spend 2K or more I can deal without the hassle of contacting dell for a 130watt and then mailing them back a 90watt.

Is the 1645 with A07 and the wled now a good idea if you had it to do again? How's the fan noise and efficiency. My older dell can sound like a lawnmower when stressed and I find it quote annoying.

Thanks for any help.

 

Bottom line is that it is still underpowered and will not perform as advertised.

 

Without going to far off-topic, is this problem limited to dell or is it an issue for all manufacturers that try and stuff a powerful processor (i7), powerful gfx card (1gb plus), and powerful screen (wled or rgbled) into one small package?

 

envy 15 i7 from hp displays no signs of throttling.

 

Other manufacturers dont seem to do this. They can run furmark + prime95 all day long without any throttling, i can personally vouch for the envy that took my 1645's place. Problem is it would seem the 1645 was designed around a 90w power, and the engineers at dell seem to be back peddling to get something reasonable out without blowing it up. Which will most likely be the crutch that haunts the 1645 for as long as its out.

This recent fix has improved things immensely from what it was, and made throttling almost non existant for a lot. Yet not a full fix leaving somethings to be desired for others.

 

It does. Only when on Battery it locks multiplier to 7X. At least HP was clear from the get go and clearly stated the fact.

 

Ah. You propose a fascinating question. Why? When I was looking at this machine I was primarily comparing the usual factors; power, portability, appearance, battery life, features, service, etc. For the most part this machine still comes on top of what I wanted to compromise on. And it looked especially promising when I initially began looking at this machine. Then as I was more and more researching it, I stumbled upon the throttling issue. And for those of you who've read my post, it didn't deter me much that DELL wouldn't fix it. I suppose I have in certain regards that outlook. But on the negative side if it doesn't, it doesn't sound like there is as much an issue with the throttling as there was previously, therefore for what minimal or maximum amount of gaming I do or do not do it won't suffer nearly as much. Make sense?

 

Hey, my system configuration also has the same part no. and I ordered the RGB version... Did I receive the right screen??

 

Ummm.. Thats new never seen that before. Are you able to post a screenshot?

 

Oh, I do have another question. . . people are saying with the new BIOS the battery life seems to be suffering more than usual. . . but it never seemed that throttling was in place when it ran on battery to begin with. . . so the fact it can draw more from the adapter effect the battery life? -blinks.-

 

I haven't noticed any issue with battery life. It's identical to when I was using A03

 

Ah. That's what I thought. I must have just read something wrong, or that person in particular doesn't know a hooey of what they're talking about.

What have you thought of the new BIOS so far Fenikkusu?

 

Seems likely. I don't see how an AC draw adjustment would affect battery life. I'm still getting around ~2:45 on battery.

 

I do not know if it is the right part but still it is RGB panel but why does it say low cost is it inferior from other RGB panels or something I hope Dell-Bill can comment on that.

 

Do you want a screenshot of my system summary on the Dell website?

 

Ah... OK, thanks!

 

Hi Bill,

Can you be honest with us here. Is this whole Throttling issue considered solved at Dell's end?

If not, what are the next steps? Is Dell going to release a new BIOS allowing more power consumption? Is Dell do something for the RGB costomers? Is Dell going to fix the heat problem? Is Dell going to fix the problem of the burning screen due to the air vent? (honestly, it could seriously burn somebody with that kind of heat.) Or is Dell actually going to do a recall, or at least for the people here that are aware of the situation? If any of above is actually in your topics during your conf call, can you please give us a rough ETA or at least an update?

 

The current DC number is notably higher than 90, and I'm going to have to leave it at that lest I draw the ire of the engineers.

If you mean, "If my RGB screen needs to be replaced after my warranty expires, will I be able to purchase one?" Yes, as long as they are in stock. If they are out of stock, you can buy a WLED and install it, so really no need to downgrade to a WLED until you are forced to by lack of inventory, IMO.

"All day long" is not what you literally mean, right? I like the Envy too. Nice piece of hardware, though not exactly intended for the same usage model as the SXPS 1645, but I'd be really surprised if you could max P95+FurMark for 4 hours. School me if I'm wrong.

To those considering purchase, I'm not a sales guy, and I'm not permitted to solicit here, but I would point out that more than one person on this site has said throttling is "99% fixed." From what I understand Dirt 2 will still throttle it if you're not using Throttlestop. If your intended usage model fits this laptop, and the Envy doesn't, I guess you'd have to decide which is more important- a system that does not throttle at all but doesn't quite fit your intended usage model, or one that throttles a little (fair to say "a little," right?) but has whatever other options you're looking for. I'm in no way saying, "buy Dell. Forget HP." They make some good hardware, but no tech company is without issues of some kind or another.

 

HaHa. <3 IT! That was pretty much border-lining what I was thinking.

 

Yes, that is my feeling, but I still have to pose the question again on behalf of the customers who are not satisfied. That's my job.
I doubt it, as I asked for X more Watts when they presented their solution to us, but see above answer.
Yes, they are doing something for RGB customers, but not what you are looking for. I will be able to share more detail sometime next week.
I don't officially have an answer to the vent question, but my gut is yes in some form or other. The overall heat problem would be something along the lines of a more aggressive fan ramp up implementation.
Formal recall isn't going to happen, but you can always present your case for a return to customer care on an individual basis.
Rough ETA for some answers is next week.

 

Just the screen part number.

 

GTA 4 benchmark
A07
LID almost closed for exhaust
keyboard backlighting off
minimum brightness
130w brick (PA-13 family)(BIOS recognizes it)

Reference benchmark
A01, 720p + 90w + max brightness(i think)= 22fps

720p + 90w
Average FPS: 42.78
CPU Usage: 41%
System memory usage: 71%
Video memory usage: 48%

720p + battery
Average FPS: 44.66
CPU Usage: 40%
System memory usage: 71%
Video memory usage: 49%

720p + 130w
Average FPS: 44.79
CPU Usage: 40%
System memory usage: 71%
Video memory usage: 49%

1080p + 90w
Average FPS: 23.25
CPU Usage: 27%
System memory usage: 72%
Video memory usage: 54%

1080p + battery
Average FPS: 23.56
CPU Usage: 28%
System memory usage: 70%
Video memory usage: 53%

1080p + 130w
Average FPS: 23.23
CPU Usage: 28%
System memory usage: 71%
Video memory usage: 54%

Analysis
The game is more CPU-dependant at lower res(720p) than higher res(1080p) which makes sense.
GPU may be bottleneck at 1080p but I doubt it.
130w adapter is not fully utilized

 

Good to hear that something is happening for the RGB people. People are acting like Dell is still not acknowledging the problem. The last few weeks have all been steps in the right direction. So as long as Dell keeps the lines of communication open with good people like Bill, I'm willing to wait a bit longer for a total fix and some answers. That being said if Dell makes attempt after attempt and it never gets fixed I'll file a complaint and have this thing wiped, boxed up and shipped back to dell.

 

Hi there.
My name is Pedro and I'm here just to tell another sad story.

I live in Brazil, which is great, but computers here are really expensive. More than expensive, some of them can't be found here (the real good stuff, gaming rigs...). If you check the BR Dell website, you'll see that there are no XPS and the systems configuration are very limited (yet expensive).

Ok. That said, here's what I did. I bought a Studio XPS 1645 and had it delivered at my aunt's place (she lives in the USA). I went there on vacation in december and got it back to BR! Uhuull!
Even paying customs taxes it was still worth it (comparing to the prices I might have found here).

Now the bad stuff. I'm stuck with a cripled notebook. Even though I like it, I know I haven't got what I paid for, and I can't return it, since I'm in BR. I also can't get a 130W adapter for free from dell (again, BR, where they don't even sell XPS).

I can ask for a replacement, have it delivered at my aunt's house, then ask her to send me the new one (would I have to send back my 90W one?!)... all that trouble, the delivery money, bothering my aunt... ok, i'll just find a 130W adapter here and buy it. Crap.

At least I got the WLED LCD... BTW, I even paid more fore the i7 820QM, expecting longer life time, futureproof...

Now, for those asking if they should buy a XPS 1645 or not. ??
Why buying a problematic (yet expensive) product when you can buy a notebook and get exactly what you paid for?

If I could go back in time, I wouldn't have bought the XPS. I wouldn't buy it in the future. Hell, I won't buy anything from dell (except for that f* adapter).

I really like sony (yeah, ps3), and I'd probably buy a Sony F Series, that looks great. I'd have to research first, and check if it has any issues. I don't know...
If I lived in US, I'd return my XPS and get the Sony's. For sure (again, don't know if it has presented any problem).

XPS - A great notebook, great looks, great configuration, powerfull in paper, but underpowered! On purpose! Dell couldn't have done that. That's not right. Morally and Legally speaking.

I guess all I can do is not recommend Dell. And curse it. And live one day at a time.

 

I hate to contradict you Bill but my benchmarks disprove the above statement for 1080p.
A07 is a step in the right direction but needs improvement.

 

The only difference between the benchmarks are that bipul_fx received a 130w slim adapter and I received a 130w brick adapter.

 

I assume it was just simple incompetence, since so many other issues arose with this model. It's clear no sentient creature tested this thing before they shipped it.

 

GTA is a poor program to use, it's a terribly executed port and even on A03 + TS I could only keep a decent framerate @ 720p

 

You're right. Btw, Im out of games to benchmark(FSX + GTA 4).
Also I had to contradict Bill's presumption that throttling was fixed.

 

If you want to PM me your service tag and ship to address in BR, I'll find someone to send you a 130W adapter with no items to return. Update the BIOS to A07, use the new adapter, and let me know how you feel. If you still want to, I can discuss your options at that point via email.

 

I know that I have the 1647 and that the A04 BIOS that will fix throttling isnt released yet, but I am experiencing something really annoying.
Recently Ive been noticing that even after gaming my laptop is throttling. For example, today I played for about 30-40 min COD MW2,I finished playing and I checked throttlestop's log to see the degree of throttling I was suffering, which was a lot. The CPU multiplier was about 11-12 all the time, I opened throttlestop expecting to see a normal multiplier now that I had stopped playing, but it wasnt the way I expected, multiplier was stuck between 9-13. I opened realtemp and cpu-z to see the cpu frequency and it was around 1.3 and 1.8 ghz all the time, the laptop was at idle with those frequencies, no stress scenario, nothing, I was just surfing the web. I had to restart the pc to see the cpu freq come back to normal.
This is happening every time I finish playing a game, even Tropico 3 which is not demanding at all.

 

You wouldn't be contradicting me. One statement was bipul_fx's and the other was the OP's.

 

Not my presumptions. Quotes straight from this forum. I presume very little (wanted to say presume nothing, but quietCat reads all my posts, and he might nail me.)