S-XPS 1645 Throttling Info. and Updates

Not that I have a long-standing relationship with dell but wouldn't doing something like this ruin any chance of buying something from this company later down the line?

 

I wouldn't think so. . . because they still want your business + good repute. And as long as it isn't terribly unreasonable. . .

 

Hey Bill, As requested, I did some testing and it seems that 84C is the sweet spot for video card down-clocking but I decided not to use rivatuner to see the max temps because I don't want to damage my video card(reduce its life). This laptops been good with me so I'm going to just continue using the cooling solution unless you want to be responsible for replacing my motherboard.

cheers!

 

I only hope that some of the engineers from US or top heads are flying to this meeting so they can all elaborate and diagnose all issues once for all if possible.

Please don't get me wrong I am just hoping I can keep my laptop rather than be forced to return back to DELL.

Time of the essence...

 

Lol. This is all sounding like the computer needs another revision in the BIOS to better accommodate for the heat so that the GPU doesn't throttle down?

 

What are you using to monitor downclocking? When in a game I see mine as holding at 675 and only when I exit to windows do I see it drop to 200. Maybe I'm reading it wrong because it starts to lag in game after a few minutes of playing, right around when it starts to get hot.

 

I am still waiting for my 130W AC adapter
Bill replied my message last thursday.

Has anyone not received your adapter yet who got reply before last thrusday?

 

Hey Perdire refer to my old post in this thread its always been an issue with all Dell laptops.

I think its time to make a new thread for this.

 

Sorry if I shouldn't be posting this here (probably...), but since some people are recommending to do it, wouldn't I lose my warranty if I open the xps and change its thermal compound for a AS one?

Another thing... Are the replacement adapters that Dell is sending the PA-4E?

 

130w replacement power adapter on right side

 

You know, I thought it would, But honestly Dell did respond, and when I wasn't satisfied 2 months later they gave me a full refund(pending) and paid for shipping.

After that. I would probably consider Dell again. Every company has its issues.

 

Sounds like some are the PA-4E, and some are not. Its a availability issue as dell doesn't have endless adapters to give out.

Just remember, if you chip the silicon at ALL. CPU/GPU is ruined. Also only use a dab about 1/3 the size of a pea, when putting on the heat spreader turn each screw one full turn then move to the screw on the opposite end and do the same keep going until its snug, This will insure the compound is dispersed evenly. I haven't removed the heat spreaders on these so use your own judgment. If the CPU is long maybe put a line along the width of the of the CPU/GPU instead of a dab in the middle.

I prefer this method as it reduces chances of air bubbles, you can take it off to see if its covering the entire GPU/CPU whip it off and if it was acceptable, repeat. If not try using a razor blade, start with a dab like before and use the blade to smooth it out evenly across the CPU/GPU. This method has the advantage of making sure the compound is in contact with the entire chip, but the disadvantage of possible air bubbles.

As far as warrant issues, you would have to ask someone from Dell.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fmac View Post
I know that I have the 1647 and that the A04 BIOS that will fix throttling isnt released yet, but I am experiencing something really annoying.
Recently Ive been noticing that even after gaming my laptop is throttling. For example, today I played for about 30-40 min COD MW2,I finished playing and I checked throttlestop's log to see the degree of throttling I was suffering, which was a lot. The CPU multiplier was about 11-12 all the time, I opened throttlestop expecting to see a normal multiplier now that I had stopped playing, but it wasnt the way I expected, multiplier was stuck between 9-13. I opened realtemp and cpu-z to see the cpu frequency and it was around 1.3 and 1.8 ghz all the time, the laptop was at idle with those frequencies, no stress scenario, nothing, I was just surfing the web. I had to restart the pc to see the cpu freq come back to normal.
This is happening every time I finish playing a game, even Tropico 3 which is not demanding at all.

Dell-Bill I beg the difference it's still happening on SXPS 1645. Once I finish viewing 3D MARK Vantage which took about 7-10 minutes, I exited application and nothing else was running CPU stayed at about 1.6ghz , 1572mhz to be exact. I was hoping CPU will settle lower and fan it will lower its speed but it didn't even though I waited 20 minutes.

 

Maybe there is, but I do use it for extended periods of time, and I have no cooler and I haven't changed the thermal paste.

 

Got My 130w adapter in today. So far I have seen a little improvement with a03 bios. Hopefully when a02 comes out it will fix the issues completely. As for the size of the brick... Its still smaller they my friends xps m1530 charger and it is DIFFENTLY!!!! smaller then the beefy xps m17 charger so I think i can live with the size

 

Am I behind the times or something? For the Dell XPS 1645 the latest BIOS is A07. It doesn't make since to go from A03 to A02 anyways.

You need A07 to "solve" the throttling issues

 

sorry i posted in the wrong section.... this is what happens when your watching this thread and the owners thread

 

You can open the system up and tinker around all day long. It will not void your warranty...UNLESS you do damage to any of the components. We publish the tear down guides on our support site under the manuals section. 1645 here. There are several manuals there, but you would be looking for the service manual.

First I had heard of this. Anyone else seeing the CPU frequency stuck low in A07?

 

if nyone can explain if the battery life degrades normally as mine.
my system is 1 mnth old and not used more thn 2-3 hrs daily.
i didnt use it much on battery.
the battery has been drained completely only once.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/40977243@N07/4371910685

 

Ok Atlstang, I did a new test now. Here it goes. I tested FarCry2.

Settings: Demo(Ranch Small), 1920x1080 (60Hz), D3D10, Fixed Time Step(No), Disable Artificial Intelligence(No), Windowed, Anti-Aliasing(8x), VSync(Yes), Overall Quality(Ultra High), Vegetation(Very High), Shading(Ultra High), Terrain(Ultra High), Geometry(Ultra High), Post FX(High), Texture(Ultra High), Shadow(Ultra High), Ambient(High), Hdr(Yes), Bloom(Yes), Fire(Very High), Physics(Very High), RealTrees(Very High)[MAX Settings]

LOOP - 1:
* Total Frames: 913, Total Time: 51.03s
* Average Framerate: 17.89
* Max. Framerate: 84.18 (Frame:0, 0.01s)
* Min. Framerate: 9.73 (Frame:533, 28.08s)
LOOP - 2
* Total Frames: 914, Total Time: 51.01s
* Average Framerate: 17.92
* Max. Framerate: 26.26 (Frame:65, 2.59s)
* Min. Framerate: 10.17 (Frame:534, 28.11s)
Average Results
* Average Framerate: 17.91
* Max. Framerate: 53.97
* Min. Framerate: 11.10

Attaching the ThrottleStop log.

 

Sorry to Crash in here guys, but I've noticed a bit of throttling on my 1747.
Tried looking through the 200+ pages since my last post, but can't really find anything easily.
Is there a fix for the 1747 throttling yet? I've got a 130w adapter lying around that I can use, but is there a BIOS update to go with it aswell?
Thanks in advance,
Andy

 

Its the heat, t hat caused this.

 

Just flashed A07 from A03, and played the same game with same settings mentioned in my old post, except that the screen was shut down.

TS logs are attached while TS is enabled & disabled with A07, and they look the same, with no sign of CM.

No difference in frame rates between: A03 + TS, and A07 with or without TS.
Only difference i noticed is that the multiplier is reaching 14-15x with A07, and around 12-13x with A03+TS. No difference in game experience though. ive also attached the old log from my previous post (i7turbo).

Same temperatures with A07, and A03 + TS: CPU never passed 75C, and GPU never passed 82C.

No matter what i still regret this purchase, and feel deceived by Dell selling me a machine with the full price tag ($2500), but not with the same performance advertised. They knew the problem from the start, but yet they choose to "gamble" with their reputation and relationship with consumers in order to save the cost difference between 90w and 130w adapter (which i bought on my own expense), or whatever the real reason is, and thankfully, they lost the bet.

I will definitely share this bad experience with anyone i know planning to buy a laptop.

Many thanks to atlstang & uncleweb, and all members who contributed positively in this thread.

 

forgot the attachments.

Sorry.

 

I just installed and ran 3DMark 06. According to my TS logs the CPU was not throttled, and I am still using my 90W as the 130W will be delivered on monday.

I did have this problem on any BIOS < A07, even using software other than games. I have not yet seen this behaviour on A07.

I'm not trying to be an advocate for Dell, but I honestly think the A07 BIOS is the best yet. I'm not sure it solves all problems, but my experience so far is pretty good. I will push my system a bit harder once the 130W arrives.

 

Guys, I also have severe GPU throttling.. I just received my 130W adapter and started testing some GTA4. It was still throttling so I downloaded throttlestop to log. According to the log my multiplier never goes below 13 (it did on the 90W adapter) so it wasn't my cpu.
I then downloaded GPUz and found this:



Obvious downclocking.. Whenever it goes below the maximum temperature, it clocks back up. It's pretty linear.
According to the GPUz log it downclocks to 300/500mhz.
I attached both logs

 

Ran furmark, it will go up to 84 before it will downclock to 300/500mhz. The temperature will go down and it will go back to normal speeds...Then back to 84c to downclock again.. /loop

 

you are using the bios A07 and a 130w adapter correct?? I dont understand why it drops to around 8x or so when the load increases in a lot of cases there. Quiet often that happens to you some reason.

 

I would have to say that I agree. In a 75 degree room, I have a 43C at idle, and have never gone over 83C. The 83 was Prime 95 Plus Crysis Demo. In everyday tasks, I hover around the low 70 mark. I have never opened up this machine, so it's stock from Dell.

 

I just wanted to share my morning of testing.

I have a 130 Watt, A.07 Bios. Power on performance, ATI on Performance.
I had a 8 thread torture test prime 95 Running.
I had XP PRO running on Virtual Box, IE8 Open, playing an Olympics Video.
I had a large spredsheet open in Excel, in the background.
I had Crysis Demo Paused, 1024x768, High Settings.

I was monitoring with GPUz, Core Temp 64, ThrottleStop 1.93 (disabled).

Crysis was playable, and the video playing in the VM was watchable. I've thrown in a screenshot showing that CPU temps never went over 81,, and that my GPU was at 675/800 and during this test, I could not get my GPU temp over 75.

For me, these was no evidence of CPU or GPU throttling when under load.

These are just my experiences, and I thought that I would share.

 

Yes I am using A07 and the Slim 130W Ac adapter. On this test brightness was in medium and I have the latest available ATI Driver by dell. Profile in Balanced. PowerPlay set to Max performance on both on power and battery.
I think its still throttles abit. 98% fixed. Hope this bios is a test version by dell

 

Your graph shows gpu throttling

 

Any idea what should I do?? Should i use ThrottleStop? Reflash the BIOS?
I am thinking about applying AS5 but I dont know if its available in India .

 

Speculation.

This is a quick link to an article discussing how AMD is down-clocking GPU's with their latest Catalyst drivers. They have a detection scheme that lower the clock when it detects that FurMark is running.

"FurMark Slowdown by Catalyst Graphics Drivers is INtentional!"

http://www.geeks3d.com/20090916/furmark-slowdown-by-catalyst-graphics-drivers-is-intentional/

The note from the developer of FurMark is that he will develop a workaround ASAP, but currently does not have the time.

My question is, what version of the drivers is everyone using?

 

That explains why after installing a new driver a week or two ago FurMark started to stutter every 3 or 4 seconds. That said, I wasn't seeing any GPU throttling (monitored via GPU-Z) when running FurMark for 30 minutes. I'm using a non-stock thermal paste on the GPU though, so my GPU temp never went higher than 75.

 

Ehm, ye nice and all...but maybe check my post above it? I also have downclocking in GTA4
I'm on 10.1..

Anyway, the GPU is just getting too hot, 84c is pretty high. It's because the LCD screen blocks the fan.
On external monitor the problem is not there.

 

Huh.

I just ran FurMark 1.8.0 on Catalyst Drivers Package 8.632.1.2-09-08-17a,
and noted that "Throttling" was minimal, and did indeed occur upwards of 83C.

So much for that theory.

Anyway, attaching drivers and GPUz screenshots from that run.

It really did take a lot for my GPU to reach these temps, and I doubt that I would see these very often in everyday operations.

Just my two cents worth.

 

The reason you can't get it above 75 is because from the screenshot you hardly have any load on the GPU.

 

Thanks.

This was at the end of my testing when I'd taken that screenshot.

In all honesty, this is way more than I would have running at any one point in time.

This was just an example for others how my machine performs under real world conditions.

Sorry, more of a business perspective than a gaming perspective. I'm not running GTA 4, Dirt 2, or even Crysis.

For me, A.07 does the trick. Now, if I could only quiet these fans back down

Cheers.

 

Figured I'd throw these in for reference.

These screenshots were taken after running FurMark 1.8.0 alone for 15 minutes. Running FurMark with 8 threads of Prime95 (Small FFTs) definitely does cause CPU throttling, but whether that's a reasonable real world test is not for me to say.

Note: FurMark reported a max temp of 71C (6 degrees higher than GPU-Z).

 

To Throw some gas on the fire. The following benchmarks were taken with the same video card, and in most cases, a C2D processor.

How do your frame-rates compare in using these games?

Your results would be something concrete that could be taken back to Bill and the engineers at Dell.

They would then be able to compare apples to apples, and understand what level of performance all of you are looking for.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-ATI-Mobility-Radeon-HD-4670.13881.0.html

 

Confirmed.
Damn Shame.
I do agree though that this may not be indicative of real world usage.

 

People have to make sure that the game benchmarks they're reading were obtained from the SXPS 16 system because most of the benchmarks on there were obtained using different systems (all with 4670). Some of those systems vary in screen res. (usually lower) and that would def. help fps over the 1920x1080 of the SXPS16. For example MSI GX623 has a 1440 x 900 screen (idk if the xps16 res. can be reduced from native to 1440x900). Additionally not too many of the games on there have benchmarks for the SXPS 16, most were with other systems. Just be wary of those variables .

 

Incidentally, I tested a variety of runs (on a 820QM):

With just FurMark running, ThrottleStop reported a CPU multiplier on one thread around 20x with a variety of lower multipliers, but several with minimal turbo boost active.

With FurMark and Prime95 (8 threads, Small FFTs) running, the CPU multiplier on all threads was only slightly greater than 9x.

So I tried reducing the number of Prime95 threads to see the effects. Even reducing to 6, then 4 and then 2 threads of Prime95, I was still seeing CPU throttling. The multipliers hovered between 10 and 12, when they ought to be 13 or higher on the 820QM.

I tried setting thread affinities for both FurMark and Prime95 when running with less Prime95 threads, but that didn't seem to greatly affect the multipliers when throttling was occuring.

That said, I'm still pleased with the system in its current state for my real world usage (software development with VM). I'm very curious to see if anyone will bite and provide matching benchmarks for that ATI 4670 / C2D link you posted earlier. Thermal throttling is a pain in the arse, but can be remedied either (a) with RivaTuner, (b) better cooling / thermal paste or (c) a change by Dell to boost the thermal threshold.

CPU throttling when stressing the GPU is admittedly of great concern, though, simply because the trend moving forward seems to be leveraging the GPU for tasks previously reserved for the CPU. I'd like not to run into issues down the line.

 

A very good point and worth remembering

If you hover your mouse over any of the benchmarks (low, med, high), the settings used are provided. It seems that most of the high runs were completed at 1366x768, which is significantly lower resolution than 1920x1080. The Crysis benchmarks on high are even lower (1024x768) and despite that, the frame rates are still poor. It'd be no surprise if people were experiencing non-thermal related stuttering if running Crysis at 1080p with high settings. Even the better coded Crysis Warhead does terribly at 1024x768.

Far Cry 2, another game referenced here, fares better in the provided results, but these again are running at 1024x768 under high settings and only getting ~36-40 FPS.

 

how much does ur battery indicate.

heat? I didnt get u.
can u elaborate plz

 

i have tried calling dell and am still getting the runaround about this 130 adapter....this is crazy!

 

does anyone have a direct solution on how to get the new adapters? who to call? i've spoken with a couple of people from dell tech support and they seem to have no idea what i am talking about

 

Bill,
Since there are still troubles in getting the adapters outside of US (I'm from Italy), is there no way you could help us? Maybe now you have a bit of free time after that a lot of US adapters have been dispatched?

Thanks.

 

Do you think the framerates and throttling of the card/cpu is similar to other same spec'd machines out there? If we are hitting the threshold of what these graphics cards are capable of, I'm fine with it. I'd hate to think that other cheaper priced laptops can play these same games at higher settings than this one with same or lower spec'd internals.