XPS 15 (Haswell) Owner's Lounge

The way I see it, Dell never planned to make the fix. They either pretend that there's no defect of coil whine or announce misleading words which further translated by you that we will have a fix soon. They just want to hide this defect from new customers and sell as many model as possible before the model passed the life cycle.

For most guys, forums like this are the only ways to know about everything about a model that he or she intends to buy instead of what is written on the paper. While we try to alert customers about this before they pull the trigger, someone keeps saying that the problem doesn't bother, again and sgain. Moreover, this someone turns out to work for Dell. While you try to make people under-estimate, have you ever felt uncomfortable for those customers who buy the model and find out that coil whine is annoying?

Maybe you keep defending for Dell because you believe that the company you work for is with good reputation……

PS: I remember that you keep saying that a fix will be available by early July, I guess everyone here will be able to see whose words we should ignore by that time.

 

I wrote that page on the Wiki. There are currently no workarounds better than I've written there, and I can't imagine better workarounds coming unless Microsoft improved their code, which would then require third-party developers to take advantage of those improvements. But for the reasons I stated in that Wiki page, that's not as easy as it sounds. I can't remember whether Mac OS X allows you to switch between "true" HiDPI and "true" normal DPI (as opposed to choosing which one to optimize for on the fly) without logging off and back on, and unfortunately I don't have easy access to an rMBP to test with. But if anyone does, I'd be curious to know whether Apple has figured out a way to switch between HiDPI and regular DPI graphics without ending the user session.

 

I said that according to Terry B, the Dell Communities liaison, a fix will be available in the mid-June to early July timeframe. I do not have any basis for guaranteeing that independently, nor have I ever given any indication in my posts that I was doing so. I'm simply quoting the official word that's available for anyone else to read for themselves should they wish to do so; I even posted a link to it in the XPS 15 Wiki -- so I don't see how you can say that I should be ignored if Dell misses that date or claim that I'm being misleading. And frankly I don't see how you can call Dell misleading about the availability of a fix when they haven't even missed their delivery timeframe yet. If we reach July 15 and Dell still hasn't delivered, I'll be right there with you criticizing them for slipping. I've got the same nickname here as I do in the Dell Communities forums, so you'll be able to verify that. And as for the claim that they're trying to hide the defect, they've publicly acknowledged it in the Dell Communities forum. What more do you expect, a banner on the XPS 15 online store page saying, "Here are things that some people who have bought this system don't like about it"? Have you ever seen ANY company do that?? Even when companies in this industry or others acknowledge a product issue and commit to fixing it, they don't stop selling the product until the fix is available unless it's safety-related or something -- so why would you expect Dell to stop selling the XPS 15 over coil whine? Imagine if software companies stopped selling their apps every time a major bug was reported until they had a fix for it....

As for saying that coil whine doesn't bother me, that's my honest opinion. As I've also repeatedly said in my posts, when the fix becomes available, I'll still most likely get it (I'll have to decide whether it's worth suffering another repair tech visit), but coil whine honestly isn't a dealbreaker for me, and if I were told it would never be fixed, I wouldn't regret having purchased this system because it's now been 8 months since its launch and there still isn't anything else on the market quite like it. Others who may have more severe cases of coil whine and/or may be more sensitive to noises like that in general may of course feel differently, and they are entitled to have and share their opinions just as I am entitled to have and share my own. I have never tried to sweep coil whine under the rug. I completely acknowledge that it exists, is widespread, and has irritated lots of people. But conversely, it's simply not the case that coil whine causes anyone who purchases the system to immediately want to return it. Several members here have posted that they have coil whine, and some are even bummed about it, but they're not all angrily calling Dell to return their system as a result. Not every problem with a given product is a dealbreaker, because there's no such thing as a perfect product -- not from Dell, Apple, or anyone else.

You're right that forums such as these can help people make an informed purchasing decision. That's possible by virtue of (hopefully) various perspectives on more subjective issues like how irritating some imperfection truly is. I've given my perspective, and others have given complete opposite perspectives. It's up to prospective customers to decide what they want to do with the varied takes on the issue. You ask me if I ever feel uncomfortable that someone might order the system on my advice and find that coil whine bothers them. No, I don't -- do YOU feel uncomfortable that your feedback might have caused people to buy some other system that isn't as ideal for them even though they might have been perfectly fine with the coil whine on this system? I didn't think so. At least in my case, people can return the system if they turn out not to be able to handle the coil whine, whereas in your case they've ended up with a system that they might be overall less satisfied with than they would have with the XPS 15. I can't predict how well the opinions of others will align with my own, so all I can do is be honest about my viewpoint and try to provide as much information as possible to help others gauge how likely they are to share that viewpoint.

I also have never attempted to hide that I work for Dell. I don't put it in my signature or anything because I am not in any way an official spokesperson for Dell, but I've mentioned it at least 4 times in this thread. And in fact I've used the fact that I work for Dell to track down the appropriate people in the company to help address many of the issues that I and others in this thread have noticed in attempt to get them fixed. I wrote a huge post to that effect here. Further, I don't really see how you can claim that anyone who works for a company is automatically going to be biased in favor of that company. I know plenty of people in other companies who aren't particular fans of that company's products, and I personally have been openly critical in this thread of both the XPS 15 and even Dell in general (e.g. loss of customization options, incompetent repair techs, inconsistent messages from customer support reps, etc.) I was using Dell products long before I started working for them, and my decision to continue to do so has nothing to do with the fact that I work for them now.

 

With all the mighty developers from Microsoft to Intel to Google all would using HDpi displays surely at least beta testing on them I was hoping someone would have found a solution. I mean it's not a big deal but the fonts look funny and does cause some inconsistency. I guess it's ignored on the most part, e. g HDpi has been there for some time I mean the chrome book with the high resolution display came out sometime back but still chrome doesn't resize well.

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Hi jphughan, Thank you very much for your tips. I have tried the Synaptics 16.3.15.1 driver, and I can't see much of improvement on my trackpad while the double fingers tap no longer working under this driver. As such I rolled back to the Dell's most recent driver and plugging a mouse most of the time.
As for the battery, I have tried few different ways to discharge it, without any success of recover the missing percentage. However one day, out of blue, the battery went back to 99% capacity, and I was really happy with the result. I will try to charge the battery without completely draining it, and will see if this will improve the capacity.

 

Anyone running any VMs on the xps? What's your performance like?

I'm completely new to the VM scene, so I'm not sure what to expect, but the UI performance is rather sluggish. For example, dragging windows around is not a very smooth experience at all and results in very high cpu loads. Host = win8, guest = archlinux (with guest addons), using Virtual Box with 3d acceleration enabled and with 4 cpu cores. Am I missing something, or is this what should be expected? (sorry for the stupid question :thumbsup

 

I've written about this a few times in this thread, but I'm running 8.1 Pro (bought the 8.1 Pro Pack add-on) so I have access to Hyper-V, which is just sickeningly fast. It's probably mostly the hardware, but Hyper-V is also a Type 1 hypervisor rather than Type 2 like any other solution you'd run on a Windows system, which would contribute to increased performance as well. However, I've never tried Linux on Hyper-V, so I can't say how it would compare to the performance you're seeing. Also, while this likely wouldn't account for most of what you're seeing, as a general best practice you might consider using fewer CPU cores for the guest unless you actually need all of that capacity for what the guest will be doing. Adding additional cores incurs an efficiency penalty, and adding additional cores without increasing the load beyond what fewer cores can handle can actually decrease total performance because more cores means more CPU_WAIT occasions -- especially if you're using a Type 2 hypervisor on a busy host. VMware wrote a great article about that somewhere.

Fyi, if you're confident dual booting, you could try Hyper-V Server 2012 R2, which is Microsoft's free standalone hypervisor. You can download it here ( http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/dn205299.aspx) and the TechNet article discussing Linux guests on Hyper-V is here: http://technet.microsoft.com/library/dn531030.aspx. The major catch is that Hyper-V Server does not include a GUI since it's designed to be remotely managed by another system, so that may be tricky for you.

 

I found some more info on AnandTech .

 

well my brother just bought a macbook pro retina display 13 inch one late 2013 and i was comparing its everything to my dell xps 15. first impressions are that macbook clearly has more brightness than the dell xps...its whites are more white on the display too...in any video or anything u clearly observe that the whites of the dell xps 15 are duller compared to the macbook.this is something u observe when u watch videos that even on full brightness when u are watching a movie or something ur eyes dnt feel that much brightness coz of te duller whites...other than that colours are more saturated on the macbook...speciallly the reds but in a good way.blues are lil bit more saturated on the xps.but overall macbook has more saturation.bateryy life on his laptop is like 7 hours with full usage and more than 5 hours on mine.but i have felt macbook runs more warm due to its aluminium unibody.boot time is quicker on the dell xps hands down.macbooks trackpad is just fabulous and it has a full range of controls for the backlit keyboard from brightness levels set from 1 to 10.overall both are comparable but i m disappointed with my dells bad white value of the display and the less colour saturation.

 

If you have $80 to spare, get some calibration hardware - for instance: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009APMNB0/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 . XPS has terrific display, but for some reason the default calibration sucks. Apparently, after it, the colors will look amazing - you can read this @anandtech: AnandTech | Dell XPS 15 QHD+: Revisiting the LCD Results . I have just used this to calibrate my RB screen and the colors seem much better

 

that is right but why is dell xps screen not that white and brighter compared to the macbook...trust me if u open a blank white page on the xps and on the macbook the xps white looks like lil grayish or not true pure white and macbook one looks like a clear pureee white one....it has nothing to do with the calibration

 

Hey guys, the last two nights I've noticed that my battery is completely drained or close to it in the morning. I put the laptop into sleep at night at full charge. I don't leave it charging at night, but it's also not on.

Yesterday it was at 0% in the morning, today it's at 16%. Any recommendations on how to diagnose this problem? Thanks!

 

I've noticed the same with mine. When I put it to sleep unplugged, the battery is drained on the next morning. I'm almost sure I have Intel Smart Connect disabled in the BIOS, but I haven't double checked it.

 

I also had observed it once. Did you check if anything was connected to the USB ports overnight. I suspected in my case this could be the reason as the USB ports are powered.


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Does any of you guys know if the XPS is due to an upgrade? Dell UK has withdrawn the laptop from their site and the customer chat guy stated is getting replaced by another model.

 

I still see this here ?

 

I leave my mouse plugged in, but I doubt it will drain the entire battery in 6 hours or so. I'll have everything unplugged tonight though to see.

 

Thanks for the hint. I always have the dongle for my wireless mouse plugged in, and sometimes an external hard drive. I will try with and without them, but it would be a serious bug if powered USB ports prevented the computer from sleeping.

 

Powered USB ports deliver power even if the laptop is powered down /sleep as it allows you to charge your phone with out having to power on your laptop . It's a feature but I would assume any active device should be able to draw out power from the USB ports .


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It absolutely does have to do with the calibration. You seem to be thinking, "The system is telling the display to show pure white -- why can't the display just show pure white? How hard could that possibly be, and why does it need to be calibrated to understand pure white?" Well displays don't work as simply as you imagine. If they did, calibration wouldn't ever be required. In reality, calibrating to achieve pure white is often one of the most difficult steps of all! First, not all display technologies are equal in their ability to render the absolute extremes of various colors. Second, even among great displays, there are natural manufacturing variances that cause one unit of a given model to perform slightly differently from another unit of the same model. And third, sometimes displays are intentionally tuned to produce a slightly warm or cool effect because some people find that more desirable than exactly accurate colors -- just like some people prefer ridiculously vivid, saturated colors (like "splendid mode") rather than accurate colors because they enjoy the "pop". And that doesn't even get into the existence of different color spaces like sRGB vs Adobe RGB, where the same RGB color codes are INTENDED to produce different visible colors because Adobe RGB's spacing of the 256 steps of the RGB range allows for a broader range of colors, whereas sRGB's spacing allows for smoother gradients.

But at this point it's pointless to keep posting in this thread asking why the XPS 15 doesn't perform like the rMBP out of the box. It simply doesn't. If you want to buy calibration equipment, you can make it perform extremely accurately, but if you're unable or unwilling to do that, then no amount of talking about why you prefer the rMBP's performance is going to lead to a solution that improves the XPS 15.

Exactly. This can be disabled in the BIOS (it's called USB PowerShare), but I personally find this feature extremely handy. Although I could definitely see a bus-powered hard drive draining a battery overnight.

 

Curt Palme explains everything you need to know about calibration here. CHROMAPURE GRAYSCALE & COLOR CALIBRATION FOR DUMMIES its the same for a computer monitor as for a home tv.

 

I've also had my battery drain overnight twice when shut down. Completely empty. Wifi was turned off, nothing connected to the machine, no wake timers or smart connect. Hasn't happened again after that and I hope it doesn't.

Also, quick question about the wifi, I updated my drivers to the latest intel version (have had no issues at all), and then started noticing that my wifi sometimes doesn't connect to any network after sleep/boot. It started on the 17.0.3.2 version of drivers. To get it working again i turn on flight mode, disable adapter then reenable and flight mode off. This happened before and after my ssd upgrade. Fresh installation as well. Any pointers???

Edit: Also my battery wear is at 9.4%. Isn't that much but just want to make sure that level is normal. Bought Dec 2013

 

Thanks jp! Tried out Hyper-V as I also have Win 8 Pro. Alas, linux support seems to be very flaky. So I tried researching my problems with VBox a bit further, and it turns out that the video drivers had failed to load. Downgrading mesa/opengl seems to have improved performance substantially. I still get some errors, so there might still be some problems with my setup, and rendering is still not butterly smooth, but I guess this will do for now

 

I left everything unplugged (Except HDMI to the monitor). I put the computer to sleep overnight (around 6 hours) and this morning there was only 51% left. I don't understand why so much of the battery is draining overnight.

 

I've had terrible luck with sleep - most of the same issues posted above - in addition to a all-out system crash when resuming (I think battery stuff was mostly solved by unplugging things) - but either way I have resorted to using hibernate when I leave it overnight - it wakes up quickly enough, and has proven to be completely reliable - which more than makes up for the time needed to get my workspace back up after a crash (assuming I didn't lose everything I was working on)

 

Is Smart Connect disabled in the BIOS? What about USB PowerShare? (even though that shouldn't matter, as nothing was plugged in in the USB ports)

 

Disable Smart Connect in the BIOS and make sure Wake Timers aren't enabled in your Advanced Power Options. Then you may also want to disable Wake on USB in the BIOS to prevent inadvertent waking of your system, though of course this would also prevent intentional waking of your system via USB device.

 

Just as an aside, my Dad's MBP was further "out" pre-calibration than my XPS was. Using the same calibration: Datacolor Spyder 3 Elite.

 

Is it still worth it to buy this laptop now?

I see so much people talking about issues here that I don't know if I should just wait for the refresh (or for the presumable fix for coil whine issues)?

 

Windows 8.1's Sleep Study tool tells you which activities drain your battery

see what drains your battery while sleep

 

Just depends if you think the issue(s) will bother you. Don't forget, this is a forum, a place where folks come to talk about problems, and how it personally effects them. Not how awesome their electronic devices are working the other 99% of the time.

I've got coil whine, and I don't care. I'm actually in a quiet hotel room right now, as opposed to my normal noisy office with several electronic devices running; and I can still only notice it if I lean into the keyboard and listen for it. And that's coming form a 33 year old guy who tends to get OCD about stuff little things like that.

Maybe I'm just getting old... but its just not an issue for me. And take it from somebody who has used hundreds of electronic gear (and repaired thousands more) over the years... they all have problems. You just have to find the one that has the fewest issues and/or the ones that'll bother you the least.

 

It depends on your ability to deal with frustration and a quality-assurance nightmare..
My vote would be to save your money and wait for the refreshed / fixed updated model.
Why pay a premium price for an unfinished, unpolished product ?
It has loads of potential but it is not "there" just yet.

 

I'm looking foward to buy this laptop but I want to know if the precision m3800 is better or just different,
I mean the Quadro GPU in the precision is better than the one in the xps?

Can some of you guys that own the xps benchmark with 3DMark and show the results? :thumbsup:

I really dont care about ''Coil whine'' so is there any other problem with the laptop?

 

The FAQ page of the XPS 15 Wiki has a detailed comparison with the M3800. The Quadro will be faster for apps that take advantage of Quadro-exclusive features (some Adobe apps, CAD/CAM stuff, modeling/animation, etc.), but the GeForce will be faster for games because it's actually clocked higher.

 

I got the top tier model late 2013 and i can´t recognize any coil whine at all

the only thing like omegafiler if I lean into the keyboard and listen for it. But the fan is much more louder than this.

 

cant agree with u more....Its a buzzing noise only heard if u lean forward towards the keyboard.coil whine is nothing like the fuss ppl have created here

 

because you have a decent board, I have had one you do not want to be in a quiet room with. My 2nd one is ok until you are in a quiet room and the laptop fans shut off. for a £1500 laptop you expect silence when the fan is off, want people not to fuss then Dell should be charging £500 for it.

 

i don´t hear anything exept the fan noise sometimes even in a quiet room

 

Outside the coil whine is there any other serious issues with the laptop? I have read through a couple hundred pages on the forum and there was some early concerns about WiFi performance. Needless to say, I bought the XPS 15 L521x for $700 one week ago and I couldn't stand the internet issues so I called Dell and they offered the XPS 15 9530 mid tier as an exchange for the one I purchased at Costco, which I accepted. I shouldn't expect to have the same problem I was having on the L521x, should I? At the price I paid for the system I wont complain about the coil whine, if it is present, but WiFi is a deal breaker and I'll just give it back to Costco.

 

Just bought the top spec XPS 15 refurbed from ebay in UK, with a years dell warranty on it. Was pretty scared after reading on here about all the issues but since delivery ive been checking everything over and i'm very happy with the screen and performance, haven't had any issues with WiFi whatsoever, but haven't tested the full potential of it due to having a ty router at home. Haven't heard one bit of coil while so far even when leaning right into the keyboard, fan is a bit noisy when editing / rendering video but still quieter than anything else i've ever had and miles faster too.

Only (issue?) I have, is if / when i lift the laptop up from the desk and tilt it towards me (down) and left i get a faint clicking noise, sounds the noise like a conventional HDD would make, but quieter. It's as if the fan is maybe catching a cable that's moving when the laptop is moved / tilted?

I do hear it the odd time when the laptop is sitting flat on the table as well...


Anyone had anything similar like that?

 

Wifi is fine with the newer drivers. It is also 50% to do with people not realising how short range the 5ghz side is, this is no worst than my last laptop of 5ghz range degradation.

when this was new it ticked for the 1st few minutes until whatever it was made it's way through the fan.

 

I need your advise guys. Regarding this coil whine. Do you think I should buy this laptop? There's really no other laptop model out there that I would rather have but I don't want to buy it and start having the coil whine issue. Are there people who actually don't experience this problem or is it every single unit that has this problem. Thanks!

 

I am sorry but I had to post this with the number of people asking the same question over and over.
I think the question of whether to buy or not is entirely subjective as subjective as the coil whine ! Some have an issue with the whine and some don't . I understand where you are coming from as I also has the same apprehensions . Buy the laptop if you don't like it return it immediately . Frankly there aren't many comparable laptops out there. But over and over I have seen people blaming Dell and this laptop in these forum , let me be clear I don't work for Dell nor had I any Dell product before this but let us be fair and judge according to our own experiences and not on heresay. To tell the truth the first xps that I got had a faulty video card I spent 2 weeks trying to figure out what was wrong but in all fairness Dell sent me a replacement once I reported it to them . Let's have realistic expectations and if you think this is too expensive or there might be coil whine or something else is not up to your expectation don't buy it . The fact that there are 500+ pages shows that there is an high interest factor in itself . I am sure Dell also realises that it costs them a lot to have so many replacements and so many returns on this laptop because of the whine issue and other issues and would be trying to take corrective actions . What other options do we have Apple, who charge a high premium , Lenovo , Sony ,now doesn't make laptops , toshiba , they have low res displays , Asus , Acer are the other 2 in the foray . Look at your requirements ,budget and go for it , if you don't like it Dell allows returns within a certain period of time . The nature of consumer electronics is very strange I don't agree with all that Dell does or the other Oems do but we don't have a say unless the market changes.A good comparison would be the automobile industry , cars last us 15 years most consumer electronics won't last a fifth of that realistically . So I am sorry of this is quite a long post and a bit rude but please take your own decision instead of asking on the forum .


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Have you tried to use this on the xps15 ? I seem to understand that it is not supported on the xps15 . As the standby states are not present .


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Thanks for the input GoNz0. There is really not much I can do but wait for my system exchange to go through for now but that is pleasant news to me!

 

Is it something that you can constantly hear or only when you move the laptop into certain positions? This was a problem with my L521x and the issue was the fan clipping some vinyl plastic that held the XPS logo to the bottom on the computer. Moving that plastic around from the outside would make it worse or better depending on how you moved it. The issue could be a fan hitting the carbon fiber bottom if is is a constant whirring noise.

 

I don't think this is the correct reasoning. It would be cheaper for Dell to deny the whine issue all the way. Although Dell has to give many replacements because of the whine issue, they can resell those returned laptops to other customers who probably won't notice this defect. However, once they admit this defect and provide a fix, all the 9530 and m3800 they have sold so far will be sent back and become rubbish. Thus, they would probably choose to never provide a fix, even if they can. Just look at the Dell forum about 9530 noise, it was created half year ago. And all these time, they keep saying that there will be a fix soon. A month ago, Dell said that there will be a fix between mid June and early July, which is now. But till now, they never give any real thing to prove they're working on a solution instead of bluffing.

Actually, it's just a few months before 9530 goes down the shelf, and when Dell manages to keep customers believing that a fix is on the way till that time, there's really no reason for them to work on a fix. Because now, they still fear that this defect may go public and influence the sales number, which is the reason why they keep customers having hope that a fix is near.

 

This has been asked I think 3 times in the last 10 pages of this thread. Please go back and read some of the replies there (spoiler: there isn't a definitive answer) and maybe read the XPS 15 Wiki's Common Complaints section. As has also been said very recently in this thread (by me), there are a SMALL HANDFUL of people in this thread and the M3800 thread who report no coil whine, but they are in the minority. And even though forums are often biased toward negative information, the fact that Dell is releasing a fix for the coil whine issue should tell you how widespread it is. So you can either wait until it's fixed (latest official update in the Dell Communities thread is by mid-July), or buy it now and get the coil whine fix later, or skip the system entirely and get something else.

But the fact that this thread is as long as it is should have given you a clue that a) you can't ask a question like "Should I buy this laptop?" and get a universal answer. You need to make your own decision with the (significant) amount of information that's available to you if you simply spend some time reading it rather than asking for it to be rehashed yet again.

 

Not really, as I dont have the battery drain problem. Its just that I remembered someone having this same issue, when I came across that article so I posted the link here. On a side note, I wanted to ask one thing. If dell never releases a fix for 9530's coil whine and releases a newer model, are owners entitled to ask for an upgrade?

 

It's only when moved in a certain direction / tilt and even then its not consistent. Starting to really annoy me now, although i just keep thinking at least i've no coil while.