XPS 15 9570 Owners Thread

What have been the main issues with your lapops?

 

I told before several times, that the 4k display is terrible and has large input lag (and ghosting). But the issue also is, that the UHD630 cant handle 4k properly it seems (under Windows 10). There is a long thread about it on the Intel forum:

https://communities.intel.com/thread/125615

Look at these videos:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD_Nf7Vbam2j3O-wXFzCouM3f9-qGvreA

Lag/freeze is the optimus bug != slow Windows 10 animations (move / resize windows, alt tab, open animations and so on). I have deactivated all Windows 10 animations which is a little bit of a workaround for this, but still, the performance is ****ty for a 1800Euro laptop, it is a pure joke.

 

Is it better when you reduce the resolution to 1080p? It would be a really poor solution, though.

 

If it's the optimus bug then plugging an external display in may cause the 1050ti to run all the time which means there is no lag while the system switches to the dGPU and then back to iGPU.

 

It seems that we have 4 theories here:

1) Optimus Bug
2) Intel iGPU incapable of handling the windows animation at 4k
3) internal 4k Monitor lag.
4) a DPC Latency issue

1) can be tested by removing the nvidia driver and see if it helps

2) can be tested by reducing the resolution to 1080p and see if helps

3) can be tested by using an external monitor.

Guys, test, and report back

Also, 1 and 2 are not strictly speaking problems of the 9570 and should be present in other laptops.

 

Cant you use force it in the Nvidia control panel? That said, I have also had my suspicions about the Optimus solution in the past, if we only could get a GPU switch instead but perhaps that is a no go for more common users...

 

Must say that initial comparision with the Razer Blade 15 was kind of surprising but yet not so much. The vapor chamber seems really effective in cooling the Blade which is about 10-20 degrees cooler than the XP15. However, that is before the power limit throttling kicks in. Yes, the Blade is really cool (ha ha) but with the effect of power throttling, the i9 in my XPS15 is actually performing slightly better than the 8750 in the Blade. The fan noise is actually much less apparent in the XPS.

Now, this was running at "stock settings" besides performance settings in Windows 10 to make the comparision fair. Well, besides the XPS15 being repasted that is. Since the Blade will most likely go back, I dont see myself repasting it any time soon.

It should of course also be noted that if GPU performane is also put into the equation, the Blade would probably blow the XPS15 out of the water. So its not really like one is a clear winner, it is more a matter of usage scenario. For productivity work the XPS seems like a clear winner, for gaming, the Blade. For both work and pleasure....quite equal I would say.

 

You can check the optimus bug by running this program:
https://www.overclock.net/forum/158...us-switching-nvidia-optimus-tool-checker.html

Basically what you do is have the program open then it will tell you if it's switching to the dGPU and then back.

I think there is a program called bye optimus that will force it to use dGPU.

 

Can't you just use the nVidia activity indicator for that? Well, assuming you are watching it that is.

 

A competitor at what, unlimited thermal throttling?

 

Had actually missed that this years Notebook Comedy Festival had already started. Competition is great for innovation, the lack of real XPS15 competitors (besides the MBP) has made it possible for Dell to just refresh the XPS15 year after year rather than being really innovative.

 

@improwise I tend to agree with what you wrote.
I do think that the blade has a better thermal solution but a 20c difference seems too much.
Also, some comparative reviews have reported that it is a bit louder.

 

There are probably much better comparisions out therethan mine. But as we have already concluded a a few times before here, there is a reason there are laptops being twice as thick and heavy as these ones. Anyone looking for the ultimate power laptop should buy neither of these, they are just not the right tools for the job. That said, I have to admit I am still quite impressed with what these thin and light laptops can actually achieve these days. Less thrilled with Dell QC and a few other items though...

 

Why would 20C be too much? The cooling on the blade is lightyears ahead of the XPS.

 

@custom90gt I think physics is a ***** and there is so much you can do. 20c is a lot. 10c would already be a fantastic improvement.
In the reviews, I have seen people say that it runs hot (not as hot as XPS15) but still.

 

Physics is a pain, but thermodynamics tells us that more surface area (I don't have measurements but the fin area looks improved over the xps) and more airflow improves cooling capacity (not to mention the higher delta T that the more efficient heatpipe design provides). There is a ton of room for improvement in the XPS heatsink and cooling situation. Dell just needs to get off their butts and do something about it.

 

@custom90gt I do agree with you that the situation can be improved. Actually, I think and hope that many will copy the Razer's approach in the future.
All I am saying is that 20c seems too much of an improvement. But if it is so, great!

 

I think the space between the keys and the screen is bigger on the Huawei. It looks bigger...

https://images.anandtech.com/doci/12462/1.jpg

How hard is it to disconnect and reconnect the touchscreen, because i use it too under some conditions? Anyway, the deed is done. I returned the Dell.

 

No optimus bug... optimus bug is freeze and short stutter if one app wants dGPU instead of iGPU. I dont have it at all actually since latest drivers and Windows 10 update, it is long gone for me. But I have very poor animation performance all over Windows 10. The moment you resize a window over basically 1920 size, it has very bad FPS, I have very bad scroll performance in Windows Explorer, slow and laggy windows animations with alt+tab and many more of these examples. I somehow think these issues are related to Dell laptops (I have just seen reports so far where the user had a 95xx XPS), because it seems other laptops with same CPU dont have this issue, also not with 4k display. The 9550 had it, the 9560 has it and the 9570 has it too... (maybe all because of some latency issue or all have bad/slow/cheap RAM modules...). Intel GPU performance is dramatically depending of how fast your RAM is and if it has good latency and timings,

I actually did a RAM benchmark ( userbenchmark.com ) and it says I actually have very poor RAM performance with the 9570 (I have 2x8GB Samsung RAM), it even suggests I should check if I have dual channel activated (it says I am just about 68% in of what I should have with 2666MHz DDR4 dual channel). Could it be, that Dell has deactivated dual channel mode even if two RAM slots are in? That could explain bad performance of the Intel GPU actually and bad Windows animations. I also looked into other user benchmarks results for the 9570, and it seems if you have a model with 32GB the ram benchmark is about 15% better, which could result in better animation performance too. It seems there are 4 different RAM modules used by Dell, and the 2x8GB Samsung is the slowest of them all. Micron one seems to be 10% faster, 2x16 models also seem to be faster.

 

Dell has a larger body, so the gap might appear smaller proportionally, but might not be smaller physically. Anyway, I guess you'll see soon...
It's a simple switch in BIOS settings to disable a touchscreen. I haven't tried, but I think you can do it in a faster and easier way in Device manager, under Human interface devices. Just a right click on the touch screen item and choose disable. That's like 10 sec and no need to reboot.

In my experience Windows scaling makes all window operations MUCH slower.
Have you tried to switch to 100% scaling and see how fluid the window resizing is? For me there's a huge difference. I think it's just Windows scaling...
My old Yoga 2 Pro with 4th gen Haswell ULV GPU was also much slower when windows scaling wasn't 100%. And it was capable of driving the external 4K + its own 3200x1800 displays, so I see no reason the 8th gen Intel GPU would struggle with just one 4K display.

 

That 20 degrees was just something I noticed while doing kind of similar things on both so it should not be considered as more than an observation. That said, temps are absolutely a lot better on the Blade, but you could argue the benefits of it as the power limit kicks in instead. However, with heavy dGPU usage I would imagine that the difference between these two machines would be much more obvious.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

 

Wasn't the low power limit on the Razer addressed by a bios update?

 

I did the same benchmark if its of any use to you. Standard Dell RAM seemed ok, even with just 8GB 2 x 4GB sticks

http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/9432945

Is the Razer 15 any good, anyone have one and recommend it?

 

https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/XPS-9570-BIOS-Sleep-Mode-Gone/m-p/6132235

 

Well, the power limit is built into the chipset so I doubt that, but it could have been changed in BIOS. Have the latest one installed though.

 

Has anyone done any extensive test of using just the dGPU all the time and not the iGPU at all? I have made a few attempts over the year but never really had the time to follow it up properly.

Also, what are your experiences from the TB16 dock regarding latency etc? I have always had a feeling that there are quite a few problems that comes with it, besides the practical aspects that is. And then we should remember that the TB16 is WAY BETTER than the TB15 which was so abysmal that even Dell themselves confirmed it to be.

 

My 9570 just lost 30% battery from when I closed the lid last night.... 30 percent :O

My old MBP 2012 lost like 10% in a week LOL. What can I do to make it stop drain itself to death?

 

@eucalyptus can you do a powercfg /sleepstudy and report what you get?

 

okii, tried that now. Not sure what I am looking for. Lots of numbers and crazy stuff

 

can you upload the file somewhere or take screenshots?

 

Why are you asking him to do that? The reason why he lost 30% is obvious: modern standby doesnt work. THE END. There is just some random program running, could be anything, Onedrive, Chrome, whatsoever, preventing deep sleep. A Laptop cant work with modern standby, at least in its current design state. The chance is too high, that some program, some service, some driver, is preventing deep sleep, resulting in a 2-3% drain per hour, which is just typical drains scenario for a failing modern standby. Normal drain would be about maybe 0.3%-0.8% but thats still bad if you think about it, how large the battery is, and how it does nothing in that sleep phase... or let me say, SHOULD do nothing.

 

Is there like ANY way we can fix this? change settings or anything? I am using sleep ALL the time! Especially when school starts next week.....

Mac is just awesome in that way. Awesome sleep and the option to "Open up windows after shut down" so you always get back to where you were before.

 

@maffle your aggressiveness and your constant and repetitive rants bring nothing to the conversation.

 

Every single Optimus notebook I owned suffered from this minor lag. As soon as you uninstall the Nvidia driver it disappears.
Is there an option in the BIOS to disable the Nvidia in favor of the UHD 630?

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@onkelosuppo well, I solved that by reinstalling the drivers, both intel and Nvidia.
If you want to disable the Nvidia gpu altogether, I don't think there is a BIOS setting. But you could uninstall the drivers and disable the respective device in the device manager.

 

Great. I will get my 9570 next week. I am really looking forward to tinkering around with it.

Is it possible to install regular Nvidia / Intel drivers or do you have to stick with those Dell provides?

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@ onkelosuppo you can install regular drivers and that is what I did

 

That checker looks a bit dated? Doesn't it show essentially the same thing you can see in HWinfo64, when the dGPU is off initially showing no readings from the GPU sensors... and then you run a program and you see a short burst of GPU clock and temperature even if it doesn't use the GPU later on... Or sometimes keeps using it for no apparent reason (say Calculator)?
I remember one should be able to set GPU choice preference in the NVidia settings, either generally or program by program, does this cancel the test at startup? I can't check right now, but I recall UserBenchmark surprisingly defaults to the iGPU and I had to change to dGPU manually.

AFAIK most GPUs are wired to run just as coprocessors to the iGPU these days and can't run standalone, with few exceptions (high-end Quadros; NSync).

Antivirus/antimalware stuff tends to be another hog that makes computers seem notably less responsive when starting programs.

 

Its still there as well as the possibility to enable tray icon about which GPU is used.

 

Dated but it works. There was a little bit better one that would show when it was idle and what not, but this one works just as well. On the 7577s that I had, there was a terrible optimus lag when you would right click on the desktop or open file explorer. The utility would show the nvidia card being activated and then turned off after 1 second or so.

And yes the dGPU runs through the iGPU, I'm not sure what your point is on that though?

 

Like @abujafar already mentioned, you being aggressive and constantly complaining about the modern standby thing isn't helping. I closed my 9560 for the weekend and came back to it and only lost 6% battery life and I don't have hibernate enabled. If abujafar wants to try to help the user, that's really none of your business.

 

Is anyone having issues with the webcam? In low light it has a purple/pinkish hue. Is this normal?

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

 

Called this morning, getting a replacement.

 

Hibernate seems to work way better than sleep. A few seconds slower, but keeping work environment without losing open sessions/windows and not draining the battery

 

You can totally be a nice guy and post your sleepstudy as a proof for the "48h+ 6% modern standby loss" (you must have a magical device with a bottomless battery), otherwise, cool story.

Hibernate is no option it will ruin your SSD over time especially if you have so much RAM like 16 or even worse 32GB and lots of RAM usage.[/user]

 

It seems like the i7 choice is useable without throttling by re-pasting + undervolting.

How about the i9? Any benchmarks on that one available?

 

Seriously, whats up with the attitude? I think that you could have something to contribute here but with that attitude, I guess I am not the only one just scrolling past your messages by now. If you really dislike Dell that much, there are plenty of other brands to buy from instead. No point hanging around here being "that guy".

 

Has anyone tried using the Bitsum softwares on the XPS15? Any noticable improvements?

https://bitsum.com/

 

@improwise for what I need, a good system cleanup from unnecessary program/services plus throttle stop is sufficient.
To monitor processes and resources I use the sysinternal utilities in case of need.

Regarding the automatic load balancing feature, it sound interesting. However, It might be more appropriate in a server environment than in a desktop.
Moreover, with these programs you always run the risk of introducing more bloat than you remove.
The very act of increasing the amount of time the CPU spends *deciding what to do* instead of *just doing something* increases the overall execution time.

 

@abujafar Seems like the bitsum stuff was mainly needed for older CPUs as I understand it.

Anyone tried out the Ultimate Performance power plan in the Windows 10 for Workstations? Actually installed it on a second partition but have not yet had time to tinker with it.