XPS 15 9570 Owners Thread

https://www.reddit.com/r/Dell/comments/9j0oue/xps_15_9570_141_bios_bug_touchscreen_not_working/

Just noticed my touchscreen stops working after laptop goes into standby. So you need to sleep the laptop in order to get the CPU working, and then that kills the touchscreen. GJ.

 

Having the same problem. posted it a few days ago too. I updated 4 days ago to the 1.4.1 BIOS, cant seem to downgrade bios to 1.3.1. Were you able to fix yours or downgrade BIOS? Also, i noticed putting the laptop to sleep via power button and waking it up works, but putting it to seep via closing the lid makes the touchscreen not work after opening it.

 

Sadly I don't think Dell will allow the bios downgrade. It seems hard-coded in the 1.4.1 bios and even making a recovery bios and trying to force that doesn't work.

 

hahaha. I will restate: these are excellent DPC results for a mid-tier laptop from a mid-tier company. I hope your 9570 does even better.

As you know, small laptops are not really optimised for performance and the XPS laptops are rather excessively wonky. And Dell firmware always seems to be flying on the edge of beta. Regardless of these handicaps, as you see in the image my 9550 has decent LatencyMon results for a laptop when compared to results of other laptops used for professional music production (plenty of benchmarks at the gearslutz.com site.)

This good 9550 DPC performance took over a year of firmware updates, required a lot of tweaking effort, and required me to remove all the nVidia drivers lol.
​

The LatencyMon software generally is designed to run with the computer on idle. This is how professional audio producers and audio engineers typically run the software & how the developer recommends using the software. That said, after analyzing idle results and isolating issues, running the offending software with LatencyMon enabled can provide some additional information, albeit I have a tough time with the information overload.

http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon_faq
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That Spotify stuttering must drive you bonkers. Does boosting priority help (task manager>details> set priority) or launching Spotify as administrator?

Have you tried running windows power options at high performance, Dell Command-Power Manager at Ultra Performance, SpeedShift enabled (with EPP=0)? You could try disabling c-states in BIOS but that locks out a lot of turbo speeds on most laptops and makes your laptop run hot / use a lot of energy so this is not a great option.

When in idle, open throttlestop and the c0% should settle around 0.5%. If it is much above 1% then you have out of control processes that need to be sorted out; there is plenty of information in the throttlestop thread.​

 

Where can we complain about this stupid bios updates? not only did it cripple the GPU after tech reviews are done, it also introduce more fatal/major bugs instead of fixing them. To add more insult into the injury, they are now not allowing us to downgrade the bios. That's flat out lying and deceiving the buyers

 

It happens now randomly really often, sometimes after I come out of bios, sometimes after a normal Windows restart, from cold boot... it shows all kind of behavior, like, no picture, then fans go on highest, nothing happens, laptops goes off after 1 minute, then on, then it may boot normally, or show the yellow yellow white blink. This is just unbelievable.

The fan logic in this laptop is just BAD BAD BAD. It runs when there is no reason for, it is triggered for just 1 second and then goes off again a lot of times, it runs way longer than it should after triggered. And I also have the experience, that it got worse and worse with every bios update. Maybe Dell has lots of warranty problems with the 9570 because of people have no idea how a computer works and burn their XPS running benchmarks all day or games with no FPS limit, and this led to Dell throttling this laptop more and more with the last bios updates. This is just purely disgusting.

Make sure you have not a SST value of 0 when you use ThrottleStop AND make sure you dont have set Windows 10 power behavior to max power. It needs to be in the middle like this:

For me it is the opposite around. I deactivated Touch in bios and then it is randomly sometimes on again after sleep wakeup.

 

seriously you can't downgrade the bios? And what do you do if you want to game on this pc (don't tell me "this pc is not a gaming spaceship" because that's not a valid reason) and you find out that your gpu easily reaches 74C even with an undervolt and underclock on both cpu and gpu?.

I think we should send mass complain tickets to dell and threaten them to release a bios update with:
1) max gpu temp at 78°C again
2) s3 sleep mode back
3) fix of c states bug
4) fix of audio latency bug

I'm serious guys, let's spam our tickets

 

Already done that. Made a ticket complaining on those items. Either they fix it or give us the option to downgrade bios while waiting for the fix

 

https://www.dell.com/community/notes/composepage/note-to-user-id/2443283 or [email protected]

 

The problem I find is that after a while you have done so many "try this, that and that" so it is hard to remember to cancel them all out, so you dont really know what you are testing when you try something new. I've actually considered putting all my "normal programs" in a VM which will make reinstallations of host OS etc much easier than having to reinstall everything over and over again. Focus now is to try to run the same stuff on the P52 and compare results.

 

I'm still on BIOS 1.2.2. Pretty glad now I haven't upgraded!
At first I didn't want to upgrade to 1.3.0 because it killed S3.
And then didn't want to upgrade to 1.3.1 because some people complained about the weaker GPU performance.
And now 1.4.1 kills the touchscreen and possibly even ramps up CPU and fans!

It's best to make a post at Dell XPS forum, which is read by Dell's reps and will attract attention and additional postings of many other users if they have the same issues.
https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/bd-p/XPS

I'm pretty happy with my laptop on BIOS 1.2.2, have a great battery life of 8-9 hours with 4K display with many apps open, 40% screen brightness, Best performance setting, and almost never hear fans.

Btw, even on 1.2.2 BIOS I keep my touchscreen disabled in BIOS, but it still works most of the time. When I read the 1.4.1 release notes I thought they fixed that bug, and that the BIOS setting to disable touchscreen would work properly. I guess they disabled it more than they should!

 

Hahaha. I know what you mean.

The P52 is a serious piece of gear.

 

Guys I have a problem. I noticed that my fans are Always spinning low even when light browsing and on idle. They go on and off and on all the time. In throttlestop I can see that my average temp is 45° and my cpu package power is Always at 12-13w. What can I do? Bios 1.2.2

 

Buy another laptop not by Dell. The End.

Thats just normal for Dell laptops. What is not normal is though your 10-13W package power on idle. Find out what it is. The problem is that you basically have to know how a laptop works or how Windows works, if you want to use it correctly. What I mean with that is, you have to know how to deactivate all nonimportant services, autostarts, programs ect. You need to undervolt. You need to close Chrome tabs when you dont need them anymore (or use an addon which does it for you like TheGreatSuspender). Dont trigger any dGPU workload (set it to always use iGPU in Nvidia settings and make exceptions for Games or Apps). You should activate the throttle flag in Chrome for tabs which are in the background



and so on... You need to use adblock (uBlock), you need to use noscript (ScriptBlock)... you need to do everything and work together with the laptop so that the idle power is always as low as possible. Set SST to 128. Disable Turbo. Make sure no task is running with Task Manager. With 40 Chrome tabs open right now (no media tabs of course no videos) I have a package power of about 1.8W in idle and temps are juuust low enough that the fan isnt triggered at around 46°C. Any little cough and they will kick in.


Make sure that C0% is as low as possible, make sure c states are working. ect. Make sure clocks are working as normal and are not at max.

 

Mate I'm not stupid. I'm on battery, idle, with undervolt on both cpu, dgpu and igpu. My dgpu is inactive when not gaming. From task manager I cannot see any program using cpu and with only 1 edge tab open I have 5% usage on the gpu and 13w package power as reported by throttlestop.

 

Thats nice. Screenshot of your TS.

 

https://imgur.com/a/eHwkUm5

 

You have 9% C0%... your CPU is at max clock of 2.2Ghz... put a check next to Speedshift... close task manager and edge and everything else (after reboot) is the package power also that high or not after reboot and nothing opened. Close all systray programs. Deactivate GPU tracking in TS. Make sure the dGPU is really off, for example with MS AB.

 

problem seem to be solved: it was msi afterburner. After closing it, package power is now 1-3w. The problem is that I need afterburner for gpu undervolting. I Always used afterburner but it never gave me problems like this..

 

@SwordOS try disabling the monitoring in Afterburner (right click on the graphs)

I second your idea of sending tickets to dell about the major issues. I will jot down a long email this weekend with as many details as I can and send it to a Dell rep I am in contact with.

 

Remember to tell of the max gpu temps (it's the most important thing, at least for me)

Regarding afterburner, If I disable monitoring the wattage usage stops, but I need the graphics to monitor temperatures and clocks in game.

 

@ SwordOS No comment...

 

I have a question.
If someone decides to buy this laptop now, would he get the latest bios version from the factory or the first version released?
Would there be a chance to flash an older bios (from 1.4.1) even by voiding your warranty?

 

My understanding is that they have updated *images* or set of drivers that they install before shipping. Not 100% sure though

 

I see.. and what about flashing an older bios in a "shady" way? What are the risks of doing such a thing (if possible) apart from losing warranty?

 

I have received laptops from Dell with rather old BIOS installed but it is really a crapshoot.

 

There aren't any really shady ways unless you want to reprogram the bios chip with an external writer, but that's not going to happen for even the most advanced users. Unless they get rid of the downgrade restriction on the new bios, it's probably not going to happen.

 

BIOS 1.4.1 is so new that I'd say it would be almost impossible to get a new laptop right now with that BIOS.
Companies don't refresh their production images THAT often, or often at all.

 

But still, if someone orders the laptop and upgrades the bios after the 30-days return period, then he's cheated. Bios description doesn't tell its flaws (s3 sleeps, gpu temps, and even touchscreen) and he cannot return anymore, One cannot be obliged to read forums before doing anything (I'm italian and I understand a bit of english but there are many people in my country and other countries that simply cannot read english). Dell should be fairer.

 

Totally agree with that!
Dell is doing a very poor job with BIOS. Taking away features or reducing performance after the product launch, especially months later, is a very bad practice. Actually, people start class action lawsuits for such reasons...

 

Of what Swordfish said, instead of complaining here, we should make a post on the Dell forum and Reddit, then everyone who feels like he is related should sign there, about all the issues and request a statement from Dell and that some of us think about a refund for this laptop.

1) throttle of GPU at 74°c with latest bios and no downgrade
2) s3 sleep mode back AND 3)
3) fix of c states bug
4) ACPI.sys latency
5) bad fan logic (often just spins for 1-2 second, too low temp trigger, runs when there is no need for)
6) stuck at Dell logo sometimes
7) yellow yellow white LED blink sequence sometimes and no boot
8) touch bugged with latest bios
9) sometimes no key response is still not fixed right?

 

Feel free to make a post on the Dell forum and I will comment there as well. I'm not sure how much help Reddit would be as Dell representatives only randomly go there and then just post the random "PM me your service tag" stuff. Perhaps it would help to direct more attention to your Dell forum post though.

 

I'm not that confident with english so It would be better if some native english speaker goes (or went?) there to open an exhaustive thread.

 

It isn't an excuse btw, but Dell subcontracts everything. They subcontract the bios to a bunch of (apparent) monkeys and then they just compile and upload whatever they get back.

 

That is what I actually already suspected. That Dell doesn't program the bios (anymore) in their own department. They mostly buy it from somewhere else, and they seem to do a terrible job. Since forever, the bios and EC is just terrible on all Dell devices.

 

This has nothing to do with poor job with bios. The problem is how they have designed the notebook.

Dell offer this services (cripple performance with firmware) to reduce the RMA numbers (they will start show up after some time). + hope their customers will stop up the complaining about hardware overheating and throttling (tech support come with a cost and isn't free). This cost them too much money, and will beat how their products perform. FYI. This practice is done by other OEM laptop manufactures as well. Some cripple performance way too much, and some not so much. The worse cooling they have designed, the worse it will be.

 

erm no @ Papusan both are true. the gpu throttling is just one of the 9 things . the how is also important here. throttling at 74°c doesn't make much sense, especially not reducing it to 800MHz which makes most games unrunnable.

 

I talk about how they handle RMA numbers and overheating complaints due bad design. Not unfinished firmware due poor firmware job(workmanship). This is two different things. The crippling of performance afterwards is wanted due cost. See also how Apple do it... They prefer overheating before loud/noisy fans. Everything they do is usually thoughtful and wanted/desired.

Edit.
See... Dell’s GVP for the XPS line Frank Azor confirms the ugly truth himself!!


https://mobile.twitter.com/AzorFrank/status/996075296406286336

 

It's much worse. @Papusan . NBC redid their MBP15 review, and after a couple of system updates, Apple's MBP15 at stock now has better sustained CPU performance than Dell's XPS 15 (in Cinebench R15). Sure, the Apple's 8850h has a theoretical 200MHz advantage over the XPS 15's 8750h, but the X1 Extreme's 8750h proves the XPS15 and MBP15 are throttling after the first run.

So even Apple's joke of a "Pro MacBook" is better off than Dell's XPS15 in the long run.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenov...GTX-1050-Ti-Max-Q-Laptop-Review.335608.0.html

 

Remember the Apple OS +... Apple's philosophy to use all the possible performance until a certain temperature limit is reached (100 °C) , before the clock has to be reduced again. Many of of the laptop manufacturers put in throttling threshold barely above 90C. This can be triggered of lot more than the Cpu temp. They add in skin sensors everywhere on the MB. [They don't bother follow Intel's recommandations (throttling temp)]

 

The internals of the Lenovo X1E look strikingly similar to the XPS15. I doubt it performs that much better.
Perhaps there are more fins or the fans are more powerful?

 

It's bigger than the XPS15 in every dimension, and it has a smaller battery (so more internal space can be used for cooling).

 

What is your point @Papusan ? I know that Tweet. It is from May 2018. I knew it long before I bought the XPS 15 9570. So... what is your point here? There is none. We are not speaking of power share throttling because of maxing CPU and GPU at the same time. But of a recently introduced temperature throttling of the GPU at 74°c regardless of CPU load. We all knew that wasnt possible with the 9570 before we bought the XPS. This change is a hidden though and not in the Bios changelog. And there is no point in it. And it is not acceptable. By your own logic, they would have to remove modern standby too and support proper and safe S3 sleep, because modern standby doesnt work and is dangerous on a laptop like this with a 60W+70W CPU+GPU (compared to a 4W tablet with modern standby) and lead to a lot of RMA I am totally sure about this.

 

Of course such changes will be hidden.

"Introduce temperature throttling of the GPU down to 74°c regardless of CPU load". Will open up for bigger temp headroom for Cpu. It's shared heatpipes. The Cpu will earn from this. And the power consumption rises with temperature (because of I2R losses). Lower Cpu temp means bigger chance for higher clock speed. And yees you are correct, it is not acceptable.

 

And what if I wanted more gpu clock instead of cpu clock? What if I want to game? And don't tell I can't game pubg medium settings on this xps 15 just becase a tweet says "its not designed for gaming". The xps 9560 still has the 78°C temp limit, many reviewers (includung ultrabookrev) said the gpu could reach 77°C before throttling when I bought the pc. Dell can't tell me that cpu is more important than gpu. If I want to game pubg, I play pubg, If the laptop breaks, dell fixes my laptop. It's not written anywhere I can't game.

 

I've seen something like this coming because there were reports of freezing under load. Throttling wasn't doing its job, the 9570s were acting as if someone killed Intel DPTF and didn't do anything about VRM heat, first "Ambient" sensor readings over 120 were reported. I expected the resolution wouldn't be favourable, but it is rather underwhelming.

I didn't buy one, but I assume folks around here who did expected at least the performance of the 9560, and comparable "iunlockability".

Problem is, Dell never could fix sleep properly. Hot backpacks have been an issue with S3 sleep too, though not en masse. I agree things have gone from bad to worse and I won't buy a Dell unless they fix this.

 

All should know there will come new firmware updates afterwards who <can or may> reduce performance either for Gpu - Cpu or both if the RMA numbers + support cost increases. Nothing you or other can do with this. You say you prefer graphics performance over Cpu while others may prefer Cpu performance. They aka the notebook manufacturer have to chose what *they* think is most important for the computer user.

Only be careful flashing new firmware (never be the GP). But you will be screwed *IF* the new firmware is needed aka you have to update due security improvements. And they will come.

 

Well, I don't think it is too much to expect the 9570 to do better. All the Thinkpads I've had prior to this dell machine has had excellent DPC times, and by this I mean below 100µs (averaging around 50µs, actually).

I just saw a tweet by Frank Azor about the DPC that suggests that they are acknowledging the latency as an issue and are actually working to fix it - Is it too early to be hopeful again?

https://twitter.com/AzorFrank/status/1044479012389703680

 

They are unable to do the right thing for customers because their poorly engineered products do not support doing the right thing for customers. So, they take the low road and do what is best for Dell.

For the average consumer, if it looks good and feels good, it must be good. That kind of ignorance is why they continue to be successful selling broken trash.

 

It seems to be justifying those downgrades. It still remains unacceptable. We still need to do that thread in dell forum and spam our tickets. If they want cpu users happier, fine, but let the gpu users refund their laptop even after the 30 days have passed.