XPS 15 L521X WiFi Test Results

Thread title fixed.

 

Well I just talked to ProSupport of Dell with my ( our ) problem.

For your information I just received my new notebook today.

They are going to replace the antenna in my notebook this Wednesday, let's see what that brings me... Keep you all posted

 

Replace antenna you say?

 

That's what they said...

 

Keep us updated!

 

I will, gonna take till Wednesday including I'm living in the Netherlands, so we have some time differences.

Well I followed all the forumposts about this laptop, and saw that the most ppl already had replaced their wlan cards, but no antenna's.

Seems like a suitable solution... Well at least... i hope...

 

If memory serves me well there was someone in the past who got his screen replaced (so with it also the antenna, I guess, if it's in the screen) but after that he didn't experience better wifi performance than before. I hope I'm wrong

 

Well you're not wrong of the placement of the antenna, it's placed in the screen indeed,.. well,.. We'll see....

 

I joined this forum today specifically because of this issue and to at least get a chance to vent but also to chime in.

Without getting too scientific (which has been done quite a bit in this thread, many thanks to all for sharing your test results!) I can add this:

I own the following 4 laptops:

L502X - with Intel Centrino Wireless N 1030
L702X - with Intel Centrino Wireless N 1030
Studio 1558 - with Intel Centrino Advanced-N 6230
L521X - with Intel Centrino Advanced-N 6235

The first 3 all have excellent wireless conectiivity and speed on my dual-band Beklin N750 DB router.

My new (3 weeks old) L521X however, as you've probably guessed, has horrible speed issues. Even at signal strength "Excellent" with 5 bars, the new L521X only gets ONE-SEVENTH the speed of the other 3 laptops!

I know some folks are not fans of using speedtest.net as a tool of measure, but check this out..

All 4 laptops in the same room, all with "Excellent" signal strength, each tested one at a time repeatedly, here are the average download speed results I get:

L702X - 26 Mbps
L502X - 22 Mbps
Studio 1558 - 28 Mbps
L521X - 4 Mbps

Yikes!! All my other laptops get average wireless download speeds of over 20 megabit and this new L521X that I paid almost $1800 for is getting 4 megabit!

Also, my network transfers a 7 times slower on the L521X and I do a LOT of network transfers. I have an external USB backup drive attached to a desktop on the network, and I run a file sync / transfer program on all 4 laptops that copies files from/to the networked USB drive. A file that takes literally 10 seconds to copy to/from the other 3 systems takes over 60 seconds on the new L521X

I had to suffer through Dell Support calls in which they forced me to repeat everything I had already done. I had already installed the latest drivers from Dell (chipset, network, bt, etc...) and flashed the BIOS to the latest version of A04, and I even uninstalled / re-insalled the Centrino drivers exactly as I had to repeat with Dell on the phone. I also had already run their PC Checkup diagnostic on the entire system and everything passed, and I showed them the results, but they had me run it again.

As you all probably guessed - the phone calls with Dell support didn't resolve anything, nor did letting them remotely connect to my system and play with the settings.

Then they of course wanted to schedule a tech to come replace some parts (which all of us already know is most likely not going to make any difference at all), but I said "this is a brand new expensive system and there is absolutely no reason I should be having someone come pry it open to fix anything. I want a return/refund".

My last call with them was on Saturday and I told the tech assisting me that I wanted to return the system. He said he'd have to start a case and that I need to wait until Tuesday which is when he will call me back. (he also said he was emailing me confirmation / case id, but he never did). I'm now past my "21 day" mark because of all the stalling from Dell and I'm told I now need to contact Customer Care in order to get anything resolved.

Needless to say I'm fuming mad - I know they're going to try to deny me return/refund because I'm a few days past the 21 mark, but I'm so ticked that I'm actually going to litigate if they try to refuse return/refund. I know a lot of people make empty legal threats to them all the time, but this is serious and there is more than enough proof that Dell knew they shipped me this computer with this defect to win a case against, and that's even without referring to the hundreds of users posting online with the same exact problem.

Thanks for having this thread here and sharing your tests / situations, and thanks for letting me share mine and vent a little.

I hope we can all get a satisfactory resolution to this problem.

 

Pretty much what I am getting, even my iPhone 4S gets better speeds lol. I am guessing from your writing style you are from the UK? If you are pm me, I may have a bit of hope about refunds issue.

 

Tiger team?

 

Hi Kaso, I'm sorry but I don't think I understand your question or the reference.

 

...except in my experience the L521X bottoms out to "no connection" in an environment with mediocre signal strength where older laptops (and smart phones) were able to connect. In this circumstance, it is not a matter of being able to stream HD or copy my entire RAW photo library, but rather a simple matter of being able to connect to the outside world vs not being able to connect.

This is a significant issue when one's day is planned around being able to use the 3 1/2 hours sitting at your daughter's swim club to VPN in to work and get stuff done.

At one point I considered tethering the L521X to my blackberry, but I came to my senses. Other Canadians on this forum know what our cell carriers charge for data (and that's a topic for a different forum.) EDIT -- just realized after I posted this that the blackberry WAS hooked up to the AP, so I should not have been worried about the cell data usage... d'oh.

 

According to Dell_Bill, Dell has tasked a "tiger team of engineers" to lick this stupid WiFi performance problem. It has been 3 weeks.

(It may be that, in Texas, "tiger" and "engineer" do not have the usual meanings. )

 

I think that's one of the most unusual things anyone has ever said to me and very interesting to hear. I'm from New York, USA. I've never been to the UK but have a lot of good online friends there (also a few here in the states from UK), and I would love the chance to visit various places there if I can afford the time away from work someday.

I also picked a bad username when I registered for the forum (in hindsight, calling me L521X could lead to some confusion). My name is Dave, btw.

Back on topic - thanks for offering to PM help in regard to the refund issue, but I think I'm all set. I managed to get in touch with a good contact at Dell now who is assisting me right now.

Once all is said and done I'll be sure to update here how things turn out.

 

This exactly describes my situation. In my leaving room (1 floor above the router) I have excellent connection and therefore good speeds. When I move one floor up to my room where I receive "Average" or "Poor" strength it will either continually try to connect or my router will just disappear from the connections.

In this same spot an old Sony and Toshiba laptop will connect as well as my PS3 and Galaxy S3.

 

If you wish, you can always request a username change.

 

Hooray! Much thanks.

I tend to echo the feelings on here than an antenna swap will not help anything, but I remain open minded and somewhat hopeful that something will be learned from your experience! Keep us posted.

I rather enjoyed the Tiger Team call-out. Haha.

 

What appears to be the case here is the L521X doesn't report a significantly weaker signal than older devices (although it doesn't appear to "see" as many APs as my older equipment), but it seems to have a more difficult time dealing with the lower S/N ratios associated with a weaker signal. This might be indicative of an issue with the spectral efficiency of the physical layer (*). If this the case, users in a very noisy environment (e.g., lots of traffic from other devices on the same and nearby frequencies) would have an even more impaired connection than folks in a quieter environment.

For example, I purposely set the channel on my 2.4 GHz band as far as possible from the posted frequency of my microwave oven and only use 5.8 GHz cordless phones in the house. Thankfully, none of my neighbours are using the 5 GHz band for 11n, so I get a "quiet" band all to myself. Under these conditions, the L521X is getting acceptable performance. In noisier environments, however, it doesn't do very well.

(*) I'm not an electrical engineer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

 

Thanks for explaining all of that. I was definitely too lazy to explain some of those principles. I'm not actual aware of what specific frequency my microwave operates at, I guess I just don't use it a lot. I too benefit from a lack of 5.2GHz capable routers in my neighbor's possession. It's very peaceful in the 5Ghz realm around here.

 

Thanks for starting this thread. Re: tiger team callout- LOL, some problems are not easy to figure out. The formal request has come for system captures. Engineering can replicate the issue on systems off the production line, but our process calls for system captures in order to replicate and document failure in both places. So, I need 3 US customers who are willing to exchange their current L521x for a new one. If you would like to have your system captured in exchange for a new unit, please send me a PM with your name, ship to address, daytime contact number, service tag and email address. You will not be asked to send your unit back until you have the new unit in hand and have had a day to make sure it has no out of box issues.

For those reporting wifi issues, please post your hardware config as it is today (meaning if you swapped in an SSD or more RAM, call it out). We're looking for:
1. cpu type
2. RAM config
3. GPU
4. storage configuration (cache msata+spinner, SSD only, msata+SSD, etc)
5. whether you have had a card swap or antenna replacement already

 

Hi Bill,

Since I'm living in The Netherlands, the only thing I can give you are the following answers:
1. i7-3612QM
2. 2x 4096MB 1600MHz DDR3
3. GT 640M
4. msata(32gb)+spinner(750gb)
5. antenna replacement tomorrow..

Hope this will help you.

 

What city and store is that guy in? If he happens to be within 50 miles of Austin, he gets my business.

I totally understand your frustration. I'd be mad, too. However, there's another way to get support than by dialing in. I will ask Lorna to reach out to you. She can work with you on a refund at any point (within reason; a year from now would not be reasonable) if we fail to correct the issue to your satisfaction.

 

@Bill Thanks for the update. Good to see that the problem is recognized, now only a fast solution

Although this thread is about the L521x, can you also confirm the same applies for the L421x? It seems to suffer identical Wifi issues.

 

Also have a L421x over here, identical problems but less horrible. Where I get 1,1mbit with the L521x get's the L421x about 12,5mbit... both with cable around 50.... and yeah my M1530 gets 50 on the same spot...

 

It's the Atlanta Room and Board, but all of their employees nationwide are like that. The company "guarantees" your satisfaction, and they really mean it!

They don't have a store in Texas yet, but they are expanding like crazy. While I'm glad I live near one of their stores, I used to live in Austin (went to grad school at UT), so I know you all have a lot of cool things we don't have in Atlanta!

 

Hi, my name is Lorna and I work for Dell. Please feel free to PM me for any questions regarding returning this system outside of our normal 21 day evaluation period. We may make exceptions however limitations do apply.
Thanks for choosing Dell,
Dell-Lorna M

 

1. i7-3612QM
2. 2x 4096MB 1600MHz DDR3
3. GT 640M
4. msata(32gb)+spinner(750gb)
5. Card swap with no differene

 

Dell-Bill_B and Dell-LornaM - thanks for your participation here, and I sure wish you'd posted about the exhange yesterday.

I spent 2 hours fighting tooth and nail with Dell to get an exchange dispatch yesterday - I was transferred at least 6 times, mis-informed, and spoke to several Dell employees who flat-out deny this existing issue and/or act ompletely oblivious to the discussions about it on the Dell Community forum and here and other places. I had to ARGUE and FIGHT to finally get a manager to honor an exchange because my request to return was not properly documented when I called in on day 20, and yesterday was day 28. I called in on day 26 to find out what was going on and to get an update / take care of all this, and I was told that there was no department to help me on a Saturday (contrary to what I was told by more than one Dell rep yesterday). After an ABSOLUTE CIRCUS of having to explain my entire story over and over again and many hours / calls / transfers later, I was FINALLY granted an exchange last night. But it was INSANE what I had to go through to get it.

Short version - First agent was in "Large Product Enterprises" department and told me I need Returns department. Then after making me answer some questions he says he's transferring me to Customer Care. I ask what about Returns Department, he then says there is no Returns Department. Next agent I get is in "Customer Care" and says "there is a Returns department but it's in a different Customer Care department and he has to transfer me to the Returns Department". (Seriously! You can't make stuff like this up!). The next agent to pick up is in the "Sales Resolution Department" and I explained that I was supposed to be transferred to the Returns Department and he says "it's the same thing" as his department. (Still not kidding you!). Ultimately he refuses to let me return the unit, tries to get me to let on-site tech open the system and play around (that's what the Dell sub-contracted techs do in my area - they show up and leave your system worse than when they arrived, the few local techs you have are not good with laptops at all, I have proof). I refuse that idea. Long hold times ensue. I'm instructed that I'll now be transferred back to Tech Support and that I should immediately ask for Manager. Next agent picks up, I immediately ask for manager. Again I'm forced to answer a bunch of the same stuff and this agent says "oh I'm in the Over 90 Day Warranty department, you need the Tech Support department since you are only 28 days". (Seriously?? Can anyone even believe this circus?). Finally I did get someone in Tech Support who was actually professional and helpful, and after taking my entire story (yet again) he did get me a manager and a dispatch for an exchange was finally arranged.

It took over 2 hours and at least a half dozen Dell employees to just give me a freakin exchange on a brand new $1800 computer.

After over a decade of doing business with Dell and over $25,000.00 worth of purchases from them as a Dell Preferred account, this could very well be my last. I'm heading out today to test out the new Samsung Ultrabooks and a few other brands / models at the local stores.

I figure if I'm going to get service this poor and be lied to (yes, I've been flat-out lied to by Dell more than once in the past 3 weeks), then there's really nothing to fear going with any other brand.

By the way, you might want to jump into related L521X WiFi issue related threads on the Dell Community forum. There is currently a Dell employee in there giving people bad advice on this issue He's providing a link to the wrong drivers and telling people to download / install them! In addition to pointing them to device properties that do not even exist. How can your company contunue to let that happen? Someone pointed out last week that your guy was providing the wrong info, but they have left it up there. In the meantime they've moved / deleted several posts about this issue. Wow...

Anyway, sorry but I just had to jump at the chance to make someone from Dell actually aware of all this, because according to 99% of your co-workers, there is no know problem and ignorance is bliss.

 

1. 3rd Generation Intel Core i7-3612QM processor (6M Cache, up to 3.1 GHz - TPM)
2. 8GB, DDR3, 1600MHz
3. NVIDIA GeForce GT 640M with 2GB GDDR5 VRAM
4. 750GB 7200 HDD with 32GB mSATA
5. No local on-site tech service

 

Newly delivered today and very happy with everything EXCEPT the wifi XPS is consistantly ~ 30% of the d/l speed vs. the ASUS I tried at the same time. This was tested at 3 public wifi hotspots each with 2 internet speedtest sites.

1. i7-3612QM
2. 2x 4096MB 1600MHz DDR3
3. GT 640M
4. 512 SSD
5. Box fresh with stock hardware, BIOS & drivers

 

Thanks for posting. Please see my PM about your service call and let me know how my request goes.

Sorry again for the poor experience. I guarantee you if you ever have a non-technical problem with a Dell, Lorna will knock it out real quick and hassle free. She won't give you the run-around. She'll listen to your side of the story, research the case notes, look at all available options, walk the case straight to her manager if she needs additional guidance (she usually doesn't), and come back real quick with all the options available to you without spending any time on the phones. When you decide what you want to do from her list of options, she'll not waste any time getting it done, provided she's not totally blasted with cases at that point in time.

About your RAM, is that 2x4GB?

 

Hello Lorna

Thanks for making yourself known to the masses. Are you able to help us European customers with the extended return policy also please?

In the UK it's 7 days I think, but I like this laptop so much I want to give you guys a decent chance to fix it.

 

Just received mine yesterday and I have the same issue with the wifi. I did notice that some of the different speedtest sites give better results that are closer to what other devices are getting on my network, but still below what I would expect.

1. 3rd Generation Intel Core i7-3612QM processor (6M Cache, up to 3.1 GHz - TPM)
2. 8GB, DDR3, 1600MHz
3. NVIDIA GeForce GT 640M with 2GB GDDR5 VRAM
4. 750GB 7200 HDD with 32GB mSATA
5. No changes to original hardware config.

 

1. i7-3612QM
2. 8192MB (2x4GB I think?)
3. 640M
4. 750GB spinner + 32GB msata cache
5. No card swap or antenna replacement.

I've had my unit for only a few days. Everything is stock. The only changes I've made is update the wifi drivers to v15.2. I live in Tulsa, but will be in Dallas for the rest of the week. Hope this helps.

Dell XPS 15 l521x wifi issues - YouTube

 

1. i7-3612QM
2. RAM: 2 x 4096 MB
3. NVIDIA GeForce GT 640M
4. 750GB 7200 HDD with 32GB mSATA
5. No changes to original hardware config.

 

1. i5-3210M
2. 6GB - not sure on configuration
3. 630M
4. 500gb/32gb
5. Intel N6235 - replaced today with Dell 1703. Seems even more sporadic than the 6235.

JGM

 

1. i7-3612QM
2. 8GB (2x4)
3. 640M 2GB (GK107)
4. System Disk: SSD (Intel 520 240GB) + Additional Storage mSATA 32GB that came with system
5. Tried card swap--non-negigible delta in performance. Currently uses the original 6235.

 

Hello all XPS followers - I've lurked for the last month here and in the XPS owners thread and a few other forums. But now that I recieved my own XPS, I desided to post some observations.

I read ALL posts about the new XPS, love the machne and not that much conserned about throttling (games are on desktop rig), however still have some reservations about it as I do compilations on this machine and run a ton of IDE and DBMS applications etc.
What consern me very much is the Wi-Fi issue and the way it's being interpreted.

Before I start - got to give it to Bill@Dell - kudos man! - as it takes some b@lls to come to the public forum and offer personal help in resolving individual issues of your employer customers.
I can't believe some idiots are actually expressing themselves here in so ever demanding voice asking you personally about the fixes for the product - come on people, how can you ask if you are thrashing left and right without any tact or consideration to this individual who tries to help anyway he can? Try this with Sony, Asus or other companies. I'll see how far you'll get.
Anyway - Thanks Bill for keep coming back and having so much patience even with some disrespectful punks and whiners that I've noticed (some are banned by now ...).

Back to the main issue.
IMHO - the Wi-Fi issue is not the drivers or card issue, it is not even your test environments and other thrivial variables so many people talk here about. And there is absolutely no need to post your system specs trying to pin-point the particular spec that is "lucky" and one that is not. There is some difference in 5 GHz and 2.4 GHz mode - however it is normal for ALL laptops.

I do not like to speculate, and try to base my opinion on factoids found in over 2000-3000 posts (no - I do not have time, but I still read about that number on the topic as I did hope for a resolution to be found ) - the dreaded issue seems to be with hardware design and /or an electromagnetic defect that may include the simple grounding issue or improper electrical isolation between the PC components and Wi-Fi antenna or a wireless card itself. All in all - it is NOT a rocket science and comparable laptops in the same room, at the same distance from the AP (both N standard ) should be about equal in performance - PERIOD. No cage , no perfect testing lab or file transfer vs. Speedtest.net is relevant - the test is really simple
I'm not sure what is the point that Bill tries to get to here with requesting the specs, but I'm sure this is easily reproduced at Dell labs, Bill's home or Jill's condo ... I did notice however that Bill offered at some point to test it himself by taking one XPS home and comparing the results... I've yet to see the results.
It sure does look like Dell is trying to delay any big noise or downplay the issue everywhere you look. Even in reviews on Dell sales site - I've read reviews that were complaining of the same issue, yet when I looked again - those are gone. It looks like (not fact) the tactic of distracting or holding us back from making unfavorable reviews and feeding us hopes, Dell at the same time buys time to fix/patch the issue that may have some adverse effect on current sales overall. That fact leads me to believe that it is a bigger problem than just BIOS or Drivers and Dell is trying to get it over with minimal cost and without loosing any sales in queue (I had to wait for my for 2 weeks even though it was 2nd day delivery).
I do still hope that I'm wrong and the "fix" will come and do await for a honest reply to what the issues actually is, but affraid that the issue may be a deal killer for me (will have to return) and for Dell (total redesign and returns/Tech/replacements cost on sold PC's).

 

And yes - the "tiger" team should have discovered or confirmed the issue (not the resolution) in 15 min, yet it takes already more than a week even to confirm and come out of the closet with this

 

and confirm that the issue also hits the L421x..

 

The engineer is here at the moment and we did discover some weird things. I will post it in the following hour.

 

Well the engineer has gone away now.

We tested the following:
1. Removed the bottom cover and the DIMM on the bottom
- No improvements
2. Removed the bottom cover and placed DIMM back, exchanged 6235 card for a 6300
- Worked, but nu improvements
3. Removed the bottom cover and removed also DIMM, exchanged 6235 card for a 6300
- No improvements
4. All the above with webcam cable disconnected
- No improvements
5. Replacement 6235 card with all above scenario's
- No improvements

And now comes the weird part:
6. New screen + antenna placed aside the laptop, so cables not guided through the notebook
- Totally different and great performance!!! Like it supposed to be
7. Fitted new screen + antenna part on the notebook and guided cables through the housing
- Same as points 1 till 5, so back to old...

All test were without the bottom cover. And with the bottom cover fitted on the laptop it just get's worse...

So it seems that the housing is the problem, I think something with RF interference or something? The Dell technician was totally frustrated about this problem and ( lucky ) he wanted to find out the problem. He escalated the problem now to his contact at Dell and gave also all this information.

 

Thanks for posting their very interesting results.

This indicates to me that we have a worst case scenario--hardware design flaw. Very sad indeed. Someone gonna lose their job over this one.

 

Thanks HDD

This is good, but bad.

I've got 6 days left before my statutory UK consumer rights to a refund expire, so looks like mine is going back at the end of this week unless there's some kind of official recognition by Dell and a rectification plan.

 

After the engineer left, I was still playing with encryption/data rates and channels/MHz of our 1142 ( Cisco ) AP.

I discovered that on the 5540 MHz Channel 108 40MHz, extended below, Below 40 MHz, with AES-CCM encryption I'm able on the same spot to get the max out of my bandwith, it connects with 180Mbit to the AP. The AP is about 10 meters away, but when I connect to the samen AP with 2427 MHz Channel 4, Channel Width 20 MHz , AES-CCM encryption it's horrible again... Seems like the problem is mainly on the 2.4GHz band.

I'm coming to the same conclusing as I tested yesterdag at home ( now at work ).

 

Hammie, thank you for posting That really is interesting news and at least it looks like you have finally figured out the issue.

This is going to be very interesting to see what Dell comes back with. Do you think they will all give us free bumper cases to put around our laptops

I definitely agree that someone's head will roll over this as it is going to cost a small fortune to either repair everyone's laptop (including technician fees etc) or have a complete redesign and replace all laptops already purchased.

Although I am outside of my return period this is a warranty issue and if not fixed it would entitle us to a refund (at least under Australian law) as the product is not fit for purpose.

Looking very forward to Bill's/dell's response asap.

 

Well me too, the engineer just called me that he got a call back from Dell and they want to try one more thing on my laptop, so the engineer is coming in tomorrow again with a ?other type? screen. I must say that both the engineer and me don't think it will help, but I'm willing to help solve this problem.

The thing is, that there is a big RF interference in the housing, and I think the only way to solve this is isolating the antenna cable in the housing, but that really will be a big problem since there is little ( read: no ) real space to figure something out. You cannot work with something which has electrical guiding because it sometimes walks over the mainboard... that will give other problems haha...

Let see what Bill or tomorrow gives...

 

I also don't think it will solve anything. I am really disappointed because I was going to order my new company laptop and really had my eye on the L521x. In an IT and multimedia environment like mine, the WiFi just is of too much importance. A shame.

 

Well I think you still have the right to return/refund the notebook because this is a serious issue related to the whole product, and it never worked since you have it. You can always point this to a account manager