XPS 1640/1645/1647 heat vent issue

I still think Dell should change their paste but at least do a better job at application (QA)...

 

Try using a rubberband and putting it inbetween the screwdriver tip and the screw head to fill in the damaged spots, lemme know how that goes. Read it somewhere...never actually tried it though

 

Is anyone else having the adhesive give way along the bottom of their display by the left hinge? This is right above where the vent is blasting my LCD with hot air.

 

A guy on this thread said he got his cooling fan replaced from a 5v,0.33A to 5v,0.5A when a tech came to replace his screen.
Has any1 opened up there laptop 2 c what fan they have or is there a way to check through device manager or sumthing.

Is this possibly dells fix for overheating?

 

Better thermal paste was suggested because it would provide cooler temperatures for the processor, and more specifically GPU, which throttles at 82C, and can reach those temperatures in real world applications such as gaming. (I noticed my GPU peaked at 72C playing Battle for Middle-Earth II which isn't as graphic intensive as other games.)

Otherwise as for the actual vent: I have noticed that with my screen in correlation to the vent is probably the most heated area skin-temperature-wise, and that a better placement (something that perhaps would improve upon the design to better help the GPU if possible) would make me feel more secure about perhaps the long-term effect it could have on my screen.

Other than that I have not noticed any symptoms from it blowing on my screen that has resulted in any harm to my system (at least for the moment). It is notable that mine is only the 1080p WLED instead of the RGB. And I read somewhere earlier something in regards to my service tag/region? Did you want it or not? Because I don't think I qualify as an *effected system.

On another note: Todd, or if someone else can answer, I have noticed that the keys appear to be leaving 'imprints' on my screen after I close it. Is it something I should look into call Dell Support to fix or not? I have only had my system since Wednesday(although I've been following along with these threads and such since January).

Thanks,

Perdire

 

i think there in not much change after replacing the new fan..the temp is still 56 to 63 deg..after replacing my thermal compound , it only drop 2-5 deg..i still using 90watt adapter for my notebook..

 

I was told (and showed by a tech) that Dell used thermal pads so that they would all be the same. If this is not actually the case then I will have to try applying some AS5 to the thing. Lower temps ftw.

 

Oh I CANNOT agree with you enough. I just recently replaced my factory paste with AS5, and Dell had put so much paste on the CPU *and* GPU that it was oozing almost all the way to the motherboard. There was literally *1/8th of an inch* of set paste in some areas. It took me 30-40 lint-free cotton swabs to remove it all! (And that was with the Arctic Silver cleaning kit!!) It was almost like they used a full tube of the smaller tube of AS5. I was shocked how bad it was.

 

Indeed they put there such an amount of paste that it has to be as expensive as if they put there the right amount of AS5 or even some better...I don't get it... :-(

 

You forget the junk they put on there probably costs $1/gallon. So they can put as much as they want and still not touch the price of AS5/good TIMs.

~Ibrahim~

 

I don't think it's so bad paste, I saw a tube that technician had and there was something like 10% silver...sure it's not good either but still probably much better than pure white silicon paste or even those stupid pads...

 

10% silver compared to 99.9% silver....

They use those "stupid pads" on the GPU's memory, but so do a lot of companies, so meh.

It isn't horrible paste, but for a few bucks, you can do much much better.

~Ibrahim~

 

Sure I totally agree, just wanted to state that for example Asus or Acer usually use much worse paste (usually just pads) than Dell used on this machine so I don't blame Dell...

BTW you should definitely check Coolaboratory Liquid Pro, which is probably the best thermal paste ever made...

 

Is it really worth replacing the paste? does anyone have some pics of how they had it so i can kind of guide myself through it? Will it void my warranty?

 

I think I will order the GC-Extreme. I am assuming if I use the Artic Silver cleaning kit to remove the old paste, it shouldn't affect the fact im using the GC-Extreme for the new paste. Also, on newegg, it states the GC-Extreme comes with a spatula to spread it. From what I gather, I would want to use the dot method and just let the pressure spread it to avoid bubbles. Would I be right about this?

 

I have an Antec silicon compound. I know that silicon based arent that good, but is it going to be better than the one that Dell used? Is it worth replacing it?

 

If you are going to go through all the work, I'd use the best compounds, I suggest GC-Extreme

 

Yes, you're right. The dot method minimizes air pockets. Air pockets aren't good for the thermal contact between the heatsink and the chip. Check the youtube video linked in the thread below.

Check this thread out, it has a video and everything. Really helpful stuff from XmD.

 

;-)

http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq77/AAdeath/1.jpg

 

Here's a good review:

GC Extreme and AS5 (A+): http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.p...k=view&id=150&Itemid=62&limit=1&limitstart=12

CL Liquid Pro (B+): http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.p...k=view&id=150&Itemid=62&limit=1&limitstart=11

Their testing methodology: http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.p...sk=view&id=150&Itemid=62&limit=1&limitstart=7

Based on Enthusiast Performance Results (best to read the entire review to understand).

 

If you want to go all out on surface preparation (vs 91% isopropyl alcohol )

Use this: http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100010

 

Ok, I don't believe that test since for example it has been shown in several other tests that AS5 can't compete to those new pastes like coolaboratory, GC-Extreme or shin-etsu...although its still very good one...

http://www.vortez.co.uk/contenttell...quid_metal_pro_thermal_compound_review,6.html

Especially:
http://www.vortez.co.uk/contentteller.php?ct=articles&action=file&id=1424

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=454323

http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cases_cooling/battle_of_the_goop_thermal_paste_comparison/5

And so on, and so on...

 

I thought the best one was that diamond paste that came out a while back?

 

This is precisely why I don't think it matters so much which thermal compound you use, but how it's applied... and the how varies according to the thermal compound selected and could be a entire debate in and of itself. I think we could post back and forth with a variety of benchmarks from different sites, but really at the end of the day, different application techniques along with happenstance will cause variation in results. This isn't an exact science. If applied well, we're talking about a degree of difference here, often significantly less.

If you own a SXPS16 and can get your idle temperatures somewhere between the 40s and 50s, great. More importantly if you can keep your load temperatures at or near 70, perfect. You should be able to accomplish this with any of the thermal compounds discussed here, unless applied incorrectly.

 

Well, I just got my 130w adapter and I was running tests, FurMark and Prime95. I saw ZERO processor throttling! Yes!

However, the thermal issue with the GPU has yet to be resolved, it took it 10 minutes to get to 84C, then it started looking like a heartbeat monitor in FurMark (the temps dropping suddenly due to throttling).

The highest my CPU (i5-430m) saw was 80C, but my GPU got to 85C. Perhaps it's time to swap out the thermal paste. It's sad, I love this laptop, but the throttling is quite annoying.

 

Indeed, heads up for the jewelery :-D My girlfriend would love it :-D

 

Hi Todd or Bill,

Any development on this issue? What kind of solution we are looking at for this? A new BIOS or something else?

 

It wouldn't be a BIOS issue. Not with the air blowing out onto the screen from what people are reporting.

Does anyone have any images of discoloration of their screens near the vent areas posted online that we can reference to our engineering teams to help explain the problem people are seeing?

 

Gosh! I applied AS5 today. It was a headache!!

My temp wid stock was 44C idle for CPU and 49C for GPU and guess what now its 44C idle for CPU and 50C for GPU

I applied it the best i can. I used Acetone to clean the CPU, GPU and Heatsink. Applied AS5 on CPU wid horizontal line method and GPU wid dot method. Guess need to wait for Cure period to over

 

How much "original compound" did you have on there that you had to clean off? I had so much on mine that I had a very difficult time cleaning it all off, even with the AS5 cleaning kit. It was *redonkulous* how much compound Dell put on there. (As I said in another thread, some places had 1/8th of an inch of paste squished in there, and it was squished out almost all the way to the motherboard! ) I have noticed a fair difference, but it wasn't as much as I first thought it was. My i820's temps when idling (or when doing nothing but playing music through itunes) is around 52-54, which seems pretty high... My GPU is definitely not very improved, as it's usually around 53-54 when idling. I guess I might have to do it again, maybe I did it incorrectly. (Used the same method(s) that you did.)

 

I just redid mine and its the same. When i took of the heatsink i saw AS5 was properly applied and covering the complete core n very less coming out of the core. The stock ones were properly applied in mine as there was little bit of thermal paste coming out of the main core. I have taken a pic with the stock one. I will attch it here tomorrow as i am posting from my cell now.

 

I've applied my paste at least 5 times.

Lowest temperatures, repeatedly, have been with putting the paste on the HEATSINK ASSEMBLY, not the CHIP. Try that.

~Ibrahim~

 

Todd, I don't really understand why that is necessary. It doesn't take a genius to realize that the current vent design is not optimal, let alone an engineer. I would think that just the potential for screen damage would motivate dell to find a solution, so that at the end of the 3/4 yr warranties people have - that dell isn't replacing a whole bunch of screens.

 

Thanx for the tip. I wanted to know which method did you use on the heatsink and what is the cleaning method for you?

 

Right now we're not seeing a large number of customer contacts due to discoloration on the screens over the vent areas. Since there does not seem to be a significant number of affected systems there isn't much internal push to change the vent design any further than it already has been.

 

In other words, Dell doesn't consider it worth fixing unless more people complain. Have there been any confirmed reports of actual damage to the screen, or are we dealing with future diagnoses for a hypothetical problem? A few pages back I asked whether any 1640 owners were seeing damage to their screens, given that those systems have been out for more than a year and have nearly identical vents... anyone?

I don't think anyone will deny that this system has issues with heat ventilation, so I'm not surprised that Dell hasn't made much of an effort to resolve the thermal throttling of the GPU.

 

The simple reason to say the vent design is insufficient is that I played GTA4 wid mid settings and within half hour GPU reached 85C and CPU reached 77C even after replacing the stock thermal paste!

 

Tossing in my two cents... I also applied thermal compound more than a handful of times and tried just about every technique including:

- Pea sized amount on both chips, no spreading.
- Pea sized amount on heatsink, nothing on dies.
- Spreading a thin layer on both chips.
- Spreading a thin layer on both chips and the heatsink.
- Spreading a thin layer and then leaving a pea sized amount in the middle.
- Straight line, nothing on the heatsink.
- Drawing an X on the die.
- And so on...

I actually got the best results (lowest average temperature across cores and GPU) with:

- Pea sized amount on GPU die, nothing on heatsink.
- Spreading a thin layer on the CPU die and then leaving a tiny dot in the middle of the die (with nothing on the heatsink).

With so many variables at play here, your mileage will vary. My issue was getting a result with consistent temperatures across all four cores. Getting the GPU done was easy. On the other hand, I kept running into situations where I had two cores significantly lower than the others (e.g. anywhere from a 5C to 20C difference under load depending on how I applied). With my current config, all cores are within a degree or two of one another.

 

OMG!! I think we should create a thread named SXPS 1645 - Ways to apply thermal paste

 

I asked this earlier of you, what has been changed in the XPS series? Which model(s) are you comparing?

 

When I asked for people to send me PMs of their service tags with systems exhibiting discoloration issues I received very few PMs and most of those were people complaining about heat issues in their systems not issues with heat blowing onto their screens having caused a failure. So at this point since we don't show much data internally of this being a problem it will most likely be handled as normal support issues and not a retrofit of a new hardware vent.

From what I understand there was a slight change to the vents on the 1645/1647 models a few months ago on the production line. A 5th vent hole was added to the vent to help dissipate heat away from the system. I haven't asked or been told about any other changes to any of the other XPS models.

The service tags I did receive I've forwarded to one of our engineering teams and they're comparing system configurations to see if they can find any correlation. They're looking into whether it is a matter of the screens not meeting specs as opposed to the way the heat is being passed through the vent because we're simply not seeing any data supporting a system wide failure rate due to this vent.

 

The 5th vent hole has been in the 1645 since launch, so as far as I know, that means that no changes have been made to the 1645. This was a difference between the 1640 and 1645; the 1640 has only four openings.

Fundamentally this system was not designed to handle stress well; heat management is poor and it seems very easy to hit thermal throttling when gaming. Given that this system WAS marketed as a good gaming platform to some, despite being marketed to others as a 'multimedia' platform, I find that incredibly deceptive and disconcerting. As I do not game, I am not personally affected by this handicap at this time, but it does a considerable disservice to my faith and trust in Dell as a vendor that I should consider in the future.

 

So any word on how to remove the 84c limit?

 

Wow, even with 130W and A07 it's really easy to get it to throttle both CPU and GPU, CPU throttles even on minimum brightness :-(

And I can get GPU to throttle thermally in games too... :-(

 

This has been known since the A07 BIOS was first released. The CPU throttles when running Prime95 + FurMark, but Dell doesn't consider synthetic tests valid here and as a result consider the CPU throttling case closed. GPU thermal throttling is another animal altogether.

 

That is a problem that Dell needs to still fix period. They can not say it's resolved when it's showing up right there in that screen shot. But it does take a serious load which mostly ONLY games and tests like this will cause to happen. Any normal business application or even CAD stuff will not cause this normally.

 

Hi Todd,

Probably not that many people have discoloration now because most of us have just recently switched to A07 which dramatically increased the tempature of the system especially during gaming. If all screens start to show discoloration within 2-3 weeks, then I don't think it is something you and your engineers could handle anymore. If that was truly the situation, Dell would face a major recall or other things. However, it is clear that with this kind of heat blowing to the screen every time when we play games, the screen is going to have serious problems in couple months or in a year.( if it doesn't melt before.)

what more evidence do they need to admit that the Vent is not properly designed? Ask any of them to run a moden game, and then put their finger beween the screen and the vent for 10 seconds...I don't think they need any more evidence than this. Todd, if you don't mind, try it yourself as well, and then please come back and tell us that this seems totally fine for you.

Please let us know.

 

The information I've received, and what our engineering teams believe is true, is that the heat coming out of the vent is within spec of what the screens will handle. Until / unless there is some proof otherwise, theorizing about possibilities of what we think may or may not happen are not going to be enough of an argument to get any changes approved.

 

Ok, but is the GPU throttling going to be visited at all? It directly relates to the design of the heat vent, as it's obvious this system is not able to cool itself sufficiently to prevent throttling of the GPU due to high temperatures.

Either the 84C limit needs to be removed or the heat vent needs to be revisited in this scenario.

 

Yup. Trying to get that consistent 4-core temperature was the hardest. Every time I applied to the die, it some pretty major temperature delta's on the last core, sometimes up to 15C.

Your recommendation sounds good, too!

More on-topic: I have no screen discoloration at all, but the clear sticker on that left hinge is coming off. I would say because of heat. Totally cosmetic, but it's the only thing I've seen change.

~Ibrahim~