XPS 1640/1645/1647 heat vent issue

Hi Todd,

Please do not take this personally. The reason why you are not getting that many PMs is because we generally lost faith in Dell after watching the way you dealt the throttling issue. I really don't understand why you need more affected systems to generate more internal push? Toyota didn't wait for more people to die on the road to start a recall? Both you and Bill admitted couple times that there is a designing problem with the vent on 1645, and with your experience on the same problem on 1340, you were confident that this could be solved. Anyone who run a game on 1645 and stick their finger between the vent and the screen will know that there is a serious problem.

Bill mentioned once the importance of social network makreting. I work for a leading consumer package company, and every year we spend millions and millions of $$ to do social network and word of mouth marketing to make sure that our brand and company has a good reputation and image among consumers. Things like this takes years and millions of dollars to build, but takes one night to destory. In this case, I can not believe that it took Dell couple months to react on the Throttling Issue. After an average and incomplete solution, Dell claims that the issue is solved without any official communication and even deleted the original discussion on the Dell Community. This is just wrong and nasty. On the vent issue, although it is clear to everyone that there is an issue, but your so called engineers refuse to have a look into the situation.

Unfortunately, I have passed my 20 day returning period, and I can not return my laptop any more (Congratulations Dell!). However, as an angry customer, like everyone else here in the forum (btw, we are opnion leaders in this area), I am going to try my best to prevent the people I know from making the same mistake and buying from Dell...

If you could, please forward my message to other people in your company. When our customer center sends us angry customer comments, we, marketing department in our company, take immediate action. I guess this might not be the case for Dell, but if you can try, it will be much appreciated.

Thanks. Todd

 

Exactly!! My screen is fine but the GPU throttling kills my laptop when the LCD is open!

 

Actually Toyota did wait till many died before a recall came out. And they have been covering up the problems for years and now they are being uncovered.

 

I agree with the above, Todd. It's not only about screen discoloration, changing the vent design is about GPU throttling too.

 

I agree with everyone else, the main gripe here is the vent design causes the GPU Thermal limit to be reached and the system to not perform at peak performance when used as a laptop - this isn’t an issue with the screen closed because then the computer can keep itself cooled. This is an issue with the screen being open and when gaming for hours, the GPU throttles due to heat, and the long term possible damage to the screen.

Todd,

This is the last major problem i see with this laptop, if this gets fixed, i personaly dont see anything else in a design way that would be a issue on this laptop, (untill games use the CPU more)

 

OK, here is my 10 cents about this issue.

When I firstly got this lappy, I had been experiencing the screen flickering issue. So, I asked Dell to replace it and they did so.

With my former screen I noticed back-light bleeding from the bottom left side of the screen. Once replaced, this bleeding was almost not noticeable at low or mid brightness (a bit noticeable at high). But after 2 weeks of hot wind blowing the left side of the screen, now I have a quote noticeable bleeding from the left. No such at right.

Someone told me that this is normal for this screens. Hmm. Well if this is so, why I am not seeing any bleeding at right side of my screen? Or top, or bottom. Why only at left ?

Later today I will try to provide you with some pictures as evidence (as Todd asked).

Nikolay

 

The GPU is designed to cut back when it reaches specific temps. The vents are working as intended within the heat dissipation design of the system. I don't see that changing. The only issue that I see possibly changing is the possible heat effect on the LCD screens and we're just not seeing that at this time.

And I have been passing these comments back, as well as others. Our engineering team is the ones that asked for the service tags as well as photo evidence of screen discoloration. Those requests that I posted are feedback requests from them.

 

I just got mine in, and not even playing games, that area does get pretty hot. But so far no issues with the lappy....

 

The vents are not working as intended!! Unless they're designed NOT to cool the GPU.
It's NOT normal for a GPU to throttle under normal circumstances (normal room temp, no dust etc.)

>_>

 

You're saying that it's acceptable that my new laptop cannot play a game like Bioshock for an hour without throttling, but my laptop from nearly 2 years ago has zero issues with this?

There's an obvious issue with the GPU throttling because either the system cannot dissipate the heat well enough or the throttling limit on the GPU is artificial.

In the case of the former, the vent is quite obviously to blame here. With the lid closed, the air is able to escape better. With an external monitor and the lid closed, I don't reach 84C while gaming. With the lid open, I do. The air is not escaping fast enough because the screen blocks it while open. How is this not a heat vent issue again?

If the former cannot be solved, then the latter needs to looked into. Either Dell needs to revisit the heatpipe design/thermal paste OR it needs to remove the limit placed on the GPU and let ATI's internal limit be the deciding factor, not Dell's.

 

Best post yet^

 

Ok, so looking at the vents; there are 5 like you said but only the 2 bottom vents are actually unobstructed. The next 2 vents are directly/effectively being blocked by the screen while the 5th vent is facing up and blowing air only on to the screen.

I don't think there's any need for asset numbers to see that 60% of the solution is not dissipating the heat away from the system.

 

And if you're like me when you use the laptop with the screen pretty far back, not even a single vent has a clear path.

My recommendation for someone (since I do not have the time anymore): make a video, post it on YouTube, and make sure Dell can literally see the difference.

Data and massive customer vents are how we got Dell actually interested in the first throttling issue; is this data what they used as a final judgment? No, but at least they really started paying attention.

So, realize what your posts are without hard data here: vents from customers that can be just "seeing" something funny. Make the video and show that there is a clear performance difference.

Preferably someone with a second monitor and FRAPS running. Or, heck,

@Bill

What type of data do YOUR engineers need to be convinced there is a problem? Will a simple FRAPS test with Crysis (or whatever) with the machine running a second monitor be able to convince them to look into the problem? I recall how you told us that you would not accept Kill-A-Watt testing for the power throttling. What do you need here to definitely get this ball rolling? I realize you aren't an engineer, but you have their ear (maybe in the best way after our last ordeal, lol!).

@all

You guys complaining that they didn't really fix the first issue and there is no point now to try with this: no, no, no, no! You are losing the very momentum we worked so hard to get! This is the EXACT reason we pushed so hard for the first issue, so that Dell would know that it had customers who weren't going to take crap. But now we're going back to that complacency....I would say now would be the best time to get this issue out to Dell because everyone is so enthusiastic and ready. Try this five months from now after this all dies down and all your passionate threads will succumb to response like "Just buy a new laptop" and "Buy a cooling pad."

DUH. It's going to be hard. There isn't a good reason for you to do this/it would send a better message to Dell for you to return it.

But show Dell that this is a HUGE problem and not something that has just a minor effect: i.e., a laptop which has performance issues because of how the screen is tilted? Damn, that sounds as silly as a i7 laptop coming with a 90W adapter.

~Ibrahim~

 

Hey my bedroom is too hot. I will take a fan and put it directly against one of the walls and blow it on high. Oh that doesn't work, I will blow another fan directly against the wall too. Man, it still doesn't work... but its how this laptop tries to cool itself. Joking aside, it is a horrible design. You can put as many vent holes in there as you want, a wall (the LCD) is still blocking it.

 

We should start benchmarking with screen both open and closed. So we can prove that the closed screen makes the temperature rise above 84°C.

 

The problem is that we have the massive vents, but the 1645 only has the tiny ones

 

This is the bleeding, which I think is caused by the hot air:



It is not that clear on picture, but in live it is quite noticeable.

 

Wow. That is noticeable. Todd, there you have it, look at that taskbar color (or is that caused by the camera flash?), if the engineers dont consider this as a clear proof..

 

Hmm...yeah, the screen bleed is a lot worse on the left side than the right on mine, too.

Can other people confirm this? Open up PowerPoint, set the background to black, and hit F5. Check for similar bleeding.

~Ibrahim~

 

I'll top that one.

Watching a movie in Media Player, on battery power, with Dell selected as the power profile.

Not consistent, yet.

Photo 1 Low Brightness.

Photo 2 High Brightness, Fan Kicks On.

Photos 3 & 4 are the back-lights, with bleed. Left is worse than right.

This is the best that I can do, as I'm not the best photographer; and an Iphone doesn't take the best photos.

If anyone else has some better photos...

 

Preferably, close-up shots of the left and right corners for maximum accuracy. Like, take a full shot of the screen, then crop the corners for comparison to make sure this is not a defect of a camera/anything else Dell pulls.

Good stuff, guys.

~Ibrahim~

 

I got bleeding too buts it's also on the top.. looks more like backlightbleeding though.

 

Hmm...it might be better to go for the GPU throttling as even if we can conclusively prove there is some extra bleeding, I doubt they would do much.

If it's directly related to performance, though....

 

It's sad that Dell turned their back on the thermal design of this laptop; I really love it, but it sucks to have thermal GPU throttling.

Is there any way to get just the plastic vent piece? I ask because, if I could get a second, I would modify it myself and fix the issue once and for all. But, I want to be able to replace it with the regular vent if I decide to sell it or whatever.

 

Ignore the taskbar, this is from the camera. But focus on the vertical bleeding at left. This is the actual problem.

Yes, ikjadoon, I confirm that

 

I think the below will be the best scenario for the video......

After 1 hour of CRYSIS action or any other graphics intense game. Start recording.

Record 2 videos.....

Both the frames will need the following softwares:
a) GPU temp monitor
b) CPU temp monitor
C) HDD temp monitor

Record 2 videos..... 1 with the lid open and the other with the lid closed.... After 30 mins of recording, you will definitely notice the temperature drop speeds for the one with the lid closed is twice as fast as the one with the open lid... Now using some software, try putting both as two frames into the same video.... and re-record the same in 4x or 8x speed so the differrence can be seen easily......

Any better suggestions????

Also you can record in-game temps like what Ibrahim said so that they are more happy with the most efficient VENT-Design anyone has ever come up with...... I mean come on folks.... What made you guys decide to put a vent that ll be blowing out HOT AIR(i mean SUPER-HEATED AIR) directly onto the screen?????

Looking forward to the Dell Technical Teams comments...... Man, do i wanna listen to what those guys have to say......

I want a re-design of the HEAT VENTS or better a redesign of the screen so that the airflow is not blocked.

@ Todd : I am looking at you!!!! (Awaiting a reply!!!)

P.S: Aint that good with the terms related to video-editing... Might have made a couple of mistakes but i think you ll understand what i meant.....

 

I don't think that test/videos will help.. from the Dell Employees here, they are saying the hot/warm air is within the tolerances of the screen.

I, like many of you, feel the design is poor (having the exhaust restricted by the screen when open come on, what were they thinking ) and I also have concerns down the road including possible damage to the beautiful display.

But, we all knew about the design the day we started to use it, we did have a return period.

 

I didn't realize anything about the GPU throttling issue. This needs to be addressed by Dell. The vent is obviously one of the major culprits for this happening; the air just isn't escaping from the system fast enough due to being blocked.

I did some tests for the temperature:

Running Bioshock 2 on external monitor, with the lid almost closed (such that the screen still stays on), but the vent is not blocked, the temps of the GPU ranged from around 74C - 80C, but never hotter. As a result, the game never throttled.

Running on the LCD (no external monitor), the game quickly shot upto 81C-84C, at which point it would throttle for a little bit, then stop throttling, rinse and repeat.

Dell needs to look at this from one of 3 ways (or combo):

1. Redesign the vent or allow for more air to escape with more holes or something. Tricky, I know, but I'd rather see them try instead of doing nothing.

2. Revisit the Thermal paste used on the GPU/CPU or the heatsink/pipe they use.

3. Remove the artificial thermal limit imposed on the GPU (84C) and let ATI's own internal thermal limit be the deciding factor. They're rated upto 100C if I remember correctly. Or play with the limit to allow more "breathing room", if that makes any sense.

 

I think we may possibly see a 3rd party option for #3 I know I would like this too..

#2 seems to help some that have gone that way themselves...

 

I got an option of getting studio xps 1640 to be replaced with xps 1647.
I was having problem of heating. I just want to know from you guys, whether the problem of heating has been resolved in new model 1647 ?
I am really fed up because of heating problem. Your replies will be greatly appreciated. thanks

 

No, heating problems have no been resolved in any of the 164x models.

 

It's sad that I paid over a grand for this laptop, only to be pondering of ways to fix the heating issue. I still have 8 days to return, but I haven't really had good luck at finding a better laptop to replace it.

I even considered having the fan pull in through the outlet and blow out through the bottom of the laptop. Haha.

I do know that if I could get a spare vent piece I could probably fix the problems.

 

Now, that's an interesting idea

With the 9 Cell battery, there is plenty of flow potential down there unless it's on your lap

 

Yea, any1 game to try and reverse the spin of the fan?

 

You don't have to reverse the spin of the fan, if I remember correctly, there is a hole on the top of the shroud as well. All you would really have to do is take the whole fan assembly off of the heat sink, flip it upside down, and put it back on (it is only taped to it anyway...).

That is, if I am thinking about this right. Also, you might want to cover up the opposite side with something to get better airflow from the inlet.

 

If the panel obscures the vent and stop the air from being blown out, what are the odds on sucking air in?

Bottom line would be you blow extra heat (from the hottest parts, CPU & GPU) into the chassis, making other components even hotter. I guess.

 

Yea it is only taped there, but i dont think it is symetrical so if you fipped it it wudnt fit. Mayb flipping the fan inside the fan housing could work...?

 

There's 1/8" gap and after another visual, air intake wouldn't be an issue..

However, warmed/hot air onto other components may be an issue.. further investigation (and thought) is needed.

 

Hell, I didn't say it was a good idea. I was just like "How could I get the coldest air possible to that heat sink?" haha.

Also, you could put a foam strip or such around the outlet between the out fan and the mesh cover, to ensure it was going straight out the bottom.

But, I don't think this is much of an idea, I just come up with random ideas when sleeping and in the shower and junk. Haha.

 

I'd really suggest you don't start tampering with airflow directions; engineers thought about this thoroughly (and had years of trial and error to get the current results).

Best option i've seen so far it the one mentioned by Dell_Bill if I recollect correctly, to remove the exhaust alltogether, which will give you a large hole on the back of your XPS. He did this on his XPS13 before it got a revised exhaust.

If tests show this gives a better airflow/better temperatures, you have a starting point and may start tinkering a (aluminium) custom exhaust if you don't like the gap in the back. This may give you a nice 'custom' w00t-look too.

 

Ok, that may be another good idea to investigate though I'd add making the length longer than the vent length (perhaps even the entire width of the display).

keep thinking in the shower about this...

LOL


There is still the back-flow effect from hitting the display 1/8" from the vent which may be restricting the total flow..

 

The rubber foot is on the bottom of the exhaust vent which sucks, so if you take it off your laptop doesn't sit evenly, so that is DEFINITELY not a good fix unless you are just doing some short testing.

Edit: Which is why I wanted to know if there is a way to order that specific part or any way I could get my hands on one. If there were, I would just have a stock one and a modified vent. I don't want to just go hacking away at a new laptop.

 

Sorry about that, but I could not check this since I don't actually have a XPS16, but am thinking of getting one.

Is there no other available space to put a foot on? Can't imagine this would be a biggie, when people are even thinking of reversing airflow... Piece of rubber, knife, glue.

 

The rubber foot on the vent doesnt come into play if you have a 9cell battery, the laptop sits on the raised battery

 

True, but it doesn't look too great either; you could take it off and try it out for a little bit and see if it fixes the issue for you. *shrug*

 

What I would do, is purchase the plastic cover for the vent, and then buy some mesh from AutoZone, and cut out that hole (the slits completely, and make it bigger if possible. Then JBWELD the Mesh inside of the hole. This will make it bigger and more airflow will move. But also if you are worried about warranty, swap the cover back to the stock one you still have.

 

I wasn't going to do quite that, but I do have some good ideas in mind, however idk where to get the cover from. It's not like you can just buy it online. I am not even sure if Dell will sell you just a vent cover, either. I guess if Todd or Bill read this, they can let me know.

If I could get one or two, I would definitely do some experimenting on how to get the best airflow.

 

I bet you could get one. If your vent cover was defective for some reason, I'm sure they would be able to send a replacement out... I would try technical support, ask them if you are able to buy a replacement vent cover.

 

Why don't you just remove the vent cover, according to the service manual it pretty easy to remove and replace. Though that would make the system prone to dust, but the heat would be dissipated in all direction's rather than in alignment to the vent holes.

 

When i play bad company 2 everything is ok for i while but after some time when im feeling that the laptop is getting hotter and hotter the game starts to get very laggi and har do play , is this bacuse om heat issues ?