XPS line 4th gen Intel Haswell 2013 Refresh?

The docs and Dell people seem to give off the idea that all displays will be touch, but a German who visited one of the launches said he was looking at a non-touch version, pretty strange.

 

I found a video about a new 32" IGZO display (maybe it will be used on iMac).
In the video are explained the advantage of IGZO technology:

 

First unboxing of Gigabyte P35K: PhotoGlow Photography | Gigabyte P35K laptop unboxing | Video 1

 

Yeah, I wish if XPS15 has the option for 256 mSATA + full-size battery (if this configuration is available and doesn't cost much more than $2000, it will be the top choice for my next laptop). Given that XPS15 with the desirable configuration will likely cost north of $2500, it is too much for me (and likely for many other potential purchasers). At the same time, given poor battery life that the laptops with quad-core Haswell tend to get (for some reasons, they are constantly worse than their Ivy-Bridge counterparts), it is highly likely that you will need full-sized battery to get battery life above 5 hours.

About Gigabytes, they need to prove themselves that they are different from MSI/Clevo, whose laptops tend to have good spec (especially for their price), but are horrible on everything else. ASUS escaped that ghetto, but the future of Gigabytes remains to be seen.

That being said, I mainly use my laptop for my job, with occasional gaming, so Gigabytes is not an option for me -- availability of support is important, and I cannot let myself caught dead with highlighted WASD keys (which is something I don't understand at all, even for "gaming" laptops -- even if you are a gamer, you may prefer ESDF or something over WASD, and no self-respected gamer should have to look for where WASD keys are).

 

I bought and love my Samsung 840 Pro 512GB and it will really hurt me if I have to somehow sell it just because the new XPS that I want uses mSATA and my SSD would be useless to me

 

^ I think it is likely that you can swap out HDD of HDD based XPS and put in your 840 Pro, though then you won't be able to have full-size battery. But yeah, this is why I haven't bought an SSD yet -- didn't want to get stuck with an SSD with "wrong" form factor.

 

i will never ever go back to HDD again in my life lol I really wanted the highest end XPS and add my 840 Pro but looks like i will have to sell it or something as battery life is my #1 want/need in a laptop.... i miss the days of fully configurable Dells

 

My intent is to get the i7 config with the high res screen/dedicated gpu/8gb ram. I'm assuming it will be 500gb+32gb SSD. I'll swap out the msata SSD to a 256gb SSD and put the OS on that. Personally I don't like the way that Intel RST caching works. Would much rather have the OS on a separate SSD and all my files on the hdd. I run my desktop like this too (OS on 256gb SSD and documents on a 2x2tb raid0 array).

 

I'm actually really hoping to see an option for a dual-core haswell + 750M + 1080p screen at the low end of the price range (~$1500). The dual core and 1080p are likely for the base config, but I'm hoping Dell doesn't play too many stupid packaging games like "you can't have the 750M without the 3200x1800 display", etc. Just give me the option for a base config + 750M 1GB graphics and I'll be a happy camper. Windows DPI scaling isn't good enough for me to want a 3200x1800 display. A nice 1080p panel would do just fine. Given the small form factor and what not, a 37W dual core i7-4600M, or even the 15W 4500U would do just fine CPU-wise. Unfortunately there will probably be 3 or 4 pre-configured choices, and quite possibly an Intel HD graphics-only base option, forcing an upgrade to the $1800+ configs for the 750M.

 

To partially answer my own question:

Per AnandTech ( here)

Also confirmed here in Dell documentation: LINK

Dell offers two CPU options: the i5-4200H (2.8-3.4GHz dual-core, 47W TDP, HD Graphics 4600) or the i7-4702HQ (2.2-3.2GHz quad-core, 37W TDP, HD Graphics 4600). And no, you’re not going crazy: the quad-core part is a lower TDP than the dual-core part, but Dell makes up for it by including a GeForce GT 750M 2GB GDDR5 with the quad-core configuration.

So it looks like the base one will be a 47W dual core i5 with some decently high clock speeds, but no dedicated graphics. Only the lower clocked 37W quad core gets the 750M. Hmmmm...here's hoping the i7 configs start below $2000!

 

Yeah, i5-4200H is a bizarre choice of CPU. Franky, it must the most pointless Haswell CPU in the world -- 47W dual-core CPU does not worth it, when LV and ULV CPUs are coming so close in term of performance (with nearly twice the battery life). Although XPS seems to be a very attractive laptop, there are many things that Dell is doing right now which makes no sense (confusing website that borders on being unusable, questionable specifications of pre-build lineups, and CTO options often being hidden). I am afraid XPS has some of that, as well.

Now, we know Dell laptops tend to start at low price and rapidly goes up in price as you add options (whereas, say, Sony CTO laptops tend to start at higher base price, but their options tend to more reasonably priced). We know XPS 15 doesn't exactly start at low base price -- let's hope its options aren't overpriced.

 

It's not pointless if you are price conscious. I'm guessing that Haswell's yield's weren't the best at introduction, and that's the reason why the refresh that came in September was quite a bit better than the July ones. 4200H would be a bargain bin that uses extra power, which is a good option for systems that aren't thermally bound but needs a low price.

 

You are correct that the price is the biggest advantage of 4200H (assuming it is not thermally bound and there is no need for long battery life, but you don't want to go all the way down to AMD APUs). However, XPS is not supposed to be budget laptop -- and many laptops that are much less expensive than XPS starts with quad-core Haswells. Even with 4200H, XPS 15 is going to be expensive -- why would anyone want 4200H in it?

 

I wish dell would be up pre-orders for this so they could actually start delivering on the 18th. By the time you actually order on the 18th you will be lucky to receive one by the end of October unless they have fast ship options

 

that's exactly my wish... I want to receive on the 18th but I see that will probably not happen at this point

 

$1499 does seems pretty steep for the base config XPS 15

Core i5 4200H (2.8/3.4 GHz)
8GB DDR3-1600
15.6" 1920x1080 touch-screen
Intel HD 4400 graphics
61 WHr battery
500GB 7200RPM + 32GB mSATA SSD cache
Intel 7260 802.11a/b/g/n/ac + Bluetooth 4.0

Those specs aren't really all that special for $1499, considering the cost of the 2012 XPS 15 base config started at $1299 when it launched. That laptop was down 2GB on RAM, but had a Core i5, the same 500GB + 32GB SSD combo, but also included dedicated GT 630M graphics, and a 1080p display, albeit not touch enabled. The new one drops the optical drive, runs similar or slightly improved specs minus any dedicated graphics, and goes up $200 in price? The carbon fiber bottom cover might cost a little more than the metal/silicone one on the 2012 XPS 15, but still, the bang for the buck factor seems a little lower on the 2013 XPS 15.

Also worth noting; Dell is really trying to sell off their stock of 2012 XPS 15's. The base i5 config is now $799, the middle i7 config is $999, and the top i7 config with 512GB SSD is $1299. It's funny though that the base i5 outlet models are still going for $900+ before coupons. Not that I'm advising anyone buy one of course. I just thought it was worth mentioning.

 

Old reviews from Notebookcheck (2012-13) on the XPS 13 with the 17W CPU talk about very poor heat management.

The XPS 15 is using a very similar design, so is almost bound to have heat issues. But I still want it. Or are there any alternatives in the market for a similar 15 inch?

The 47W choice of i5 is quite poor... my SXPS 1647 is already dying because of the heat from the 35W i5, so a 37W i7 is not exactly going to make things better in a slimmer body

 

The XPS 13 322X had no thermal issues in the notebookcheck review. Moreover, the XPS 15 is a different form factor model using different components, so while thermal problems are a possibility, previous experience with XPS 13 models does not make them more or less probable. A dual fan construction would be nice though.

I see some people here presume the 47W TDP i5 4200H is somehow going to generate as much heat as a 47W TDP quadcore counterpart. I honestly think you should reconsider this line of thought, or at least find some tests/data to back that up. You might be surprised when actual reviews come up.

Also, please remember Haswell has integrated voltage regulators. That means a system equipped with a 37W Haswell chip will consume less energy overall than one with a previous generation 35W Ivy Bridge CPU, even if CPU TDP is simlar.

 

The review says "Very warm even when idling, high surface temperatures".

Previous experience with the XPS 13 does matter. That was a low voltage CPU with no discrete GPU, but already it had difficulty with heat. This new XPS 15 will be using pretty much the same basis for its design but will come with much hotter CPU and/or GPU components.

Come to think of it, was there ever a 15.6 inch model in the history of the XPS and Studio XPS line that didn't have heat issues?

I wonder how hot the 47W i5 will run, but I don't think it will be as bad as a quad at 37W.

It's not a good choice because a lower voltage dual core would be nicer and probably not trade off much performance, considering the thickness of this model, when past XPS laptops have had major heat issues in larger bodies.

Already a 35W dual core would have little place in a thin laptop like this. It's trying too hard. Some of us are not fortunate enough to have year-round or even any cold weather, the thing generates much more thermal energy than central heating.

 

You make it sound like the new XPS 15 will have the same intake vents and the same cooling assembly as the 13 inch model. Is it clear to you we are talking about two different chassis?

Do you know the Precision M3800 will have a similar chassis design with the XPS 15 and is likely to have a dual fan design? How would you comment on that?

If you're going with this line of thought, then there's no sense in discussing, isn't it?

By the way, my Dell XPS M1530 equipped with a discrete Nvidia 8600M GT and a 35W CPU had no overheating problems whatsoever. Summer can be quite hot here too.

 

My XPS1530 had no heat problems at all either. I did have 2 nvidia failures with it and the last one was last year, I finally retired it at that point. Currently using a Studio 17 with an i5 and ati video and it gets a little warm but never too hot. I'm very excited about the new XPS 15 and will be ordering one the first day it is on the dell site. I will be going top of the line 500gb SSD with the large battery and high res display.

 

I'll third that my XPS m1530 also had zero heat issues equipped with the 35W Core 2 Duo T9300 and GeForce 8600m GT.

Also worth noting, the design of the new Haswell XPS 15 is different from the Ivy Bridge XPS 15 specifically targeting both the WiFi and throttling issues. Besides the two fan design (likely allowed by dropping the optical drive) there is also a larger gap between the LCD barrel hinge and the rear of the laptop base.

Here's a picture illustrating the difference:



You can see the extension of the exposed aluminum portion of the base between the black silicone paint and the LCD. The gap on the L521x is very narrow, whereas it's clearly visible on the Haswell XPS 15. This should allow for much better exhaust at the rear of the laptop. Additionally there is an intake vent along the bottom which was absent on the L521x.

Speaking specifically to the WiFi. The WiFi antenna on the L521x is inside the barrel hinge, not the LCD bezel. There is a Rev00 and Rev01 of the L521x antenna, and from personal testing I can say that the Rev01 antenna works 100% perfectly when removed from the laptop. It's very likely the confined space between the aluminum case and LCD bezel that kills the WiFI download speeds on the L521x. The new Haswell XPS has a wider gap here, which may contribute, along with other design improvements, to fully functional WiFi.

 

Good responses. At this point it's speculation, but this is the kind of thing one wants to hear - it's possible a second fan will prevent any overheating (I'm not sure about the efficiency of these fans if their speeds cannot be manually controlled).

Although, a little gap between the screen and back of the base isn't going to do much, as much as we want it to.

 

it does not have to have heat issues if dell did the thermal system right this time

as for the 47w thing i agree it should be lower but i think the system utilises a dual fan cooling system which the last gen xps should have had and the new precision m3800 and xps have a very similar body and for sure that precision has two fans the possibly used the same asymmetric fan blade design that the MBPR used

as for ur XPS1647 which had a poor cooling system ....

 

I'll 4th you on no heat issues on the m1530. Mine died 3 months ago and I have been waiting on the Haswel refresh forever - well since Haswel was officially announced. I used the hair dryer trick on it for 4weeks before it finally gave out for good.

My wife has the 1640 product red. It's always overheating and throttling. The display hinge blocks the vents. Bad design.

My only concern on the new XPS is the heat ventilation and distribution. I love the design but style sometimes get in the way of functionality. Waiting on reviews. Day one order.

 

I'd wait a bit before we talk about heat if I were you, the last version of the XPS 15 was terrible to the point that it throttled under any load at all. Let's reserve judgement until Dell releases this new one and some real reviewers can take a look at it. I wouldn't buy one of these until after Anandtech and Notebookcheck take a look at it. They're the guys who actually published how bad the problems with last year's model were.

 

Heat issues come in two categories. The notebookcheck review says the internal component temps are very good with no throttling at the expense of surface hot spots. Im guessing the hot spot in right under the CPU.

I would much rather have well cooled non throttling CPU than cool surface temps. In fact one of the reason why the Razer blade 14 does so well at cooling is that it allows certain parts of the case to get hot thereby transferring the heat outside of the case. Of course in the razer blades case the hot spot is on top just above the keyboard so you ever come in contact with it.

But the XPS15 is actually thinner than the Razer 14 and from the pictures the heat sinks dont look any wider than usual EDIT: actually the XPS15 is 2 mm thicker than the razer blade 14, so it shoudl be more or less on par with it as far as heat managements goes, if not a little better. I would guess with just 100% CPU load shared between two heatsinks(like rMBP), the XPS 15 would have no problems with full turbo loads. But with both GPU and CPU at 100% load (ie gaming), the cpu would go back to its nominal frequency and the GPU would remain at full turbo speeds. For most people this scenario would be a fine compromise. The only scenario where i can see both GPU/CPU being at 100% is with some very specialised rendering programs that use both the CPU and GPU.




If the XPS heat pipes are anything like the Razer's it should do fine.

 

Opening up the area around the hinge is probably good, but from what I read on the L521X owner's thread, but biggest problem was that the air intake vent wasn't located at the fan. It couldn't be, because of that silicone pad that covered the bottom. Because of this, the air that came in had to squeeze through a thin, narrow space in order to get into the fan intake. I remember there were people who tried running their L521X's with the bottom covered removed, and got much better results. Anyway, it looks like they've moved the air intake on this new version, hopefully so that the (hopefully two) fans are right at the vents.

Macpod, thanks for bringing up the Razer Blade 14. I was gonna say the same thing. Also, in addition to being a touch thicker, the 750m GPU draws 35-40 watts according to NotebookCheck, while the 765m in the Blade draws 50-75 watts, with a narrower range of 60-65 watts listed in the info table. So since they have the same quad-core CPU, the XPS 15 is going to have less heat to dissipate.

Side note, if you want to look at NotebookCheck's data on the 750m, bear in mind that all the versions they've tested so far had DDR3 memory. They say the GDDR5 version beats the 660m, and going by the 3DMark 2013 scores, the 660m is about 70% as powerful as the 765m, and 80% as powerful as the 8870m (and Samsung doesn't even sell that version of their laptop in the US). I think I'll be satisfied with the 750m w/ GDDR5.

Last thing, remember that TDP is a MAXIMUM thermal dissipation (not power draw) value. I'd hesitate to use TDP to draw conclusions about power draw at idle or low usage, since all these processors can downclock themselves so much. It may well be that the 4200H draws less power at idle than the 4702.

 

No one thought the 4200H would run hotter than the 4702 on idle. 4 cores is going to be 4 cores.

The matter is that 4200H might not be quite as desirable as a potentially cooler dual core. It also becomes a matter of choosing between the 4 cores (guaranteed to be "warm") and this dual core that isn't exactly promising to keep things cool.

For these types of laptops idle is never really a consideration, because it is expected that even at idle things will be quite warm. Unless you've got cold weather around you - depending on where you are, room temperature could easily vary by 20C.

 

hmmmn dell will most likely have a 2 fan setup with the heat pipes shared between the cpu, gpu and connected too the two fans
but i doubt it will be similar to the razer 14. an unlike last years xps 15 the vent runs right under the fan / heat-pipes so airflow should be much improved
i say we wait and see but i sense great things from this xps even the sound since the Latitude E7440 had excellent sound for a business note book coving highs mids and bass from two speakers alone the xps speakers should be better Review Dell Latitude E7440 Notebook - NotebookCheck.net Reviews

also hope webcam quality is better cuz the L521x web cam was poor. the webcam on my l502x beats the l521x my friend has good ting he didn't check my cam cuz he would have felt bad lol

 

Here's some figures based on my unit's 4700HQ (47W quad). The first image shows idle power draw, the second shows full load power draw, the third shows half load power draw (2 cores only). In the first two cases the CPU is dynamically undervolted by 80mV and restricted to 3000Mhz on 4 core loads in order to simulate it's 37W - 4702 quad core brethren. In the last case, when load is applied to 2 cores only, the CPU is not undervolted and maximum frequency is set to 3400 Mhz in order to simulate the "less efficient" dual core 4200H CPU.



With the max turbo multiplier set to 34x in 4 core load, no undervolt, and full load on all cores the CPU finally skyrocketed to ~49W CPU Package Power. While in the other scenarios turbo boost was available for indefinite periods of time due to "low" power usage, this time it was able to maintain 3400MHZ for only 10 seconds or so before dialing the speed down to 3300Mhz in order to place the CPU near the 47W limit. Less than 30 seconds after that, due to temperature restrictions (core temp went up to ~80C) the CPU was forced down to 3000Mhz.

A few things to note:

• Even the the quadcore Haswell has extremely low idle power usage. A standard dual core should fare even better.
• The simulated "inneficient" 4200H CPU consumes less power under full load than the simulated "more efficient" 4702HQ (27W vs 32W) and has a big power headroom left for the GPU.

 

Any benchmarks on the 750m with DDR5?

 

I doubt that every single person that comes across this thread understands TDP and the like. I was just trying to help out anyone who didn't know. I'm so sorry.

All else being equal, of course a lower TDP is better. But the only other 2.8 GHz dual-core is the 4558U, which costs $200 more than the 4200H. And who knows, maybe Intel didn't have a big enough supply of the better dual-cores or something.

A 4702 and 750m together draw about 77 watts max. A 4200H by itself draws 30 watts less (Edit: and as coercitiv shows two posts up, the gap may well be even larger than that). If the seemingly improved cooling system even comes close to handling the higher configurations, it'll handle the 4200H just fine. NO laptop is ever going to be "cool" at full load. Besides, how often to people really push their computers while using them on their laps? If you're doing process-intensive work or gaming, I'd think you would usually have the thing on a table.

I disagree that idle temps aren't a consideration. If you look at a few NotebookCheck reviews, you'll find some variance in case temperatures. Anyway, laptops are only ever warm at idle because the fan speeds are turned down, because people complain about that stuff. Either you can have a mildly warm laptop, or you can have fan noise. Take your pick.

 

does anyone have a rough estimation when it will be released?

 

Or we could have throttling, and get both. A toaster and a fan heater in one.

It's too bad we don't normally get to control fan speed.

 

Throttling at idle? I don't even know what you're trying to argue anymore. Why don't you just calm down and wait for reviews.

GreaseMonkey90, the release date is the 18th of this month.

 

http://www.adorama.com/DEXPS156843.html?mobile-redirect=never

Pretty good price, if it's right!

 

It's too bad that the 9-cell battery only comes with the 512 GB SSD. I anticipate that it will be an expensive upgrade.

 

Strange, according to anandtech only 3 configurations were to be offered and the above listed one is not one of them.

 

I didn't get that from anandtech. I understood that those would be options from which u could choose from.

But we'll see what's what in just a few days.

Sent from a different Galaxy using Tapatalk 2. now Free

 

Great find. :thumbsup: It is a pretty attractive price for its configuration -- assuming it can get decent battery life, we can always add HDD-sized SSD later. And if it uses the same chassis as Precision, its build should be pretty good as well (and hopefully nothing like the disaster that was the last gen XPS).

I still wish if they have 9 cell/256GB SSD configuration, though. Also perhaps they didn't really intended to use 4200H in their volume models, as they only needed it to lower the entry price (so they can say "it starts at $1499) -- it isn't the business practice that I like, but it at least makes sense.

 

Anyone have an estimate or can estimate based on the given watts and power usage, How many more minutes of battery time will the bigger battery give us?

I just want to see if it is worth getting since I already bought a 512gb SSD and don't want to sell it if I don't have to

 

If the battery is 13 hours with a 91w battery, it's 7w/hour, so the base battery of 61w would be around 8.7hours, meaning the extra battery would be 4.3 hours.

 

Do Dell notebooks have a battery care function? Not many manufacturers other than Sony and Lenovo have it.

This function allows you to set the maximum percentage battery charge, and can really extend the lifespan of the battery (I know this from personal experience). It's not just a software function since it charges accordingly even when the notebook is powered off.

With a 9-cell battery, you could set max charge to 50% and still have decent battery life, and the battery should outlast any conceivable lifespan of the notebook.

 

of course they have /actually 3 options
1. dell extended battery
2. desktop mode (how much you use it unplug or plugged in)
3. how you reload your battery (its about the litium-ion cells cycles)

 

Awesome! Dell's battery care is rather sophisticated compared to Sony's.

Big question for software developers out there. I'm just starting to learn C, and will eventually get into Java (Android), Objective C (iOS) and HTML5/Javascript. For those who do a lot of compiling and working with VMs, do you think the i7 4650U available in the XPS 13 is powerful enough for a development machine? I'm struggling whether to go for the more mobile 13 model, or the more powerful 15.

How about the maximum 8GB onboard DRAM in the 13 -- would this be a major limitation for development work? The 15 has two slots for up to 16GB.

I'm not concerned about the keyboard or screen size, since any serious coding would be done on a desk with connected peripherals. I like smaller machines for their ability to be "tossed around" during casual use. But then again, the QHD+ screen on the 15 sounds pretty enticing, assuming Win 8.1 fixes the dpi scaling issues.

 

todays processors are more than powerful enough for compiling, you can get away with an i5 actually and 8GB of RAM should be fine too. Though I would recommend you to buy the most powerful laptop you can afford. You won't regret it in the long run

 

If you are just learning and you are not part of a big development project, then most likely you will not need too much horse power. Though I would go with 15" just to make it easier on your eyes and to give you more screen space: very helpful for both coding and debugging.

As for VM's, it all depends on how complex your virtual environment is. For 1-3 VM's running at the same time, 8GB should suffice. If you are going to run many more machines in parallel, then you will need more RAM and the best CPU you can get. For very complex virtual environments, it's much better not to run them on your laptop at all: use a server instead and just remote to it from your laptop.

 

last gen model????

So I know the new xps 15 will be out in a few days...last year's model is on fire sell mode. You can get the xps with the 3rd gen proc, 16 gigs of memory, 512 HD and all that jazz for 1299 right now.

OMG 1299????

Those same specs with the new model are going to be at least 2k. I've been waiting to get a new laptop for my son and was going to wait for the newer model just based on weight but saving at least 7k sounds awesome. I really want to get him something with the SSD because of the boot speeds.

Is the new system going to be worth the price difference?

 

In terms of performance it should be about the same. Haswell is more about power efficiency. ~5% gains in CPU and maybe 10-15% gains in GPU (650M -> 750M).

The real difference will come in battery life, it should be significantly better.

Of course then you also get all the physical changes over the old model (Thinner/lighter chassis, High res screen, probably tweaked keyboard/touchpad, probably(hopefully) tweaked wifi configuration), etc etc etc.

Being a tech person, I would (and am) get the new one, but it depends on your circumstance/priorities.