Dell finally speaks out on the NVIDIA FAULTY GPU bug...

Trust me when I say I wouldnt be mad at dell if I had an effected unit. Nvidia is to blame not dell. But yes I know what you mean. As for dell they have never treated me bad and the desktops we have here at the office work great after 3 years, not to mention my vostro awesomness.

 

The way I understand it is most manufacturers make hay when the sun shine and move on. I imagine most of Nvidia's fabs have moved onto the 9 series. Same as Intel etc. They dont just keep making old technology - maybe the last series to a degree but I certainly dont think they are still making 6 or 7 series chips

My guess is that all of the 8 series chips are made at the same time and now Nvidia's fabs will be kicking out the 9 series.

 

I think the reason Nvidia has not released the chips affected is because it is ALL of them, every single one of them. They can't possibly admit to that as current shipments from Dell and others are on the line, Dell doesnt want them to admit that either, it would kill their sales for months! And yes Nvidia has set aside $200 million, which is not even close to what it will cost them!! I would suggest nobody order a system with these cards until the whole truth comes out otherwise you are taking a huge gamble. Both Nvidia and Dell want to push the issue off onto the consumer for as long as possible, especially those outside of warranty. For those of you saying they are doing what they can based on current information are missing the boat! Deny Deny Deny! Act as if nothing is wrong, release a 'patch' that does nothing more than decrease battery life and push the problem out a few years giving both Dell and Nvidia time and reason to deny out of warranty service. Until either of them come clean with real solutions, stay away! Those of you with 1 year warranties, start building your case..those of you with longer warranties avoid the bios patch, why delay the inevitable! This is going to get very very messy. I hope I am wrong as I do have an affected machine but the current information leads me to the above conclusion,

also read this from the inquirer saying ALL chips are defective!!

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquir...fective-nvidia

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/07/09/nvidia-g84-g86-bad

 

Where are you getting this information from? And where is theinquierer getting theirs from? You can't rush to believe everything on the net, no matter how well it's written.

 

Very old news. The Inquirer rushed out to announce the "scoop" without proper information. As of yet there has been no definitive word from nVidia as to what is and what isn't effected. Just generalization, which has led to nVidia stating that NOT ALL G84/G86 GPU's are effected.

 

actually, The Inquirer isn't very well written at all

 

Lionel posted an update to the original blog post...

Hmmmm... Interesting. Can anyone confirm?

 

Well considering its just a small plastic fan that they have made to spin at low speed, the impact would probably be minimal...

 

If I returned my laptop, what should I get anyways? The HP DV5t? I got my XPS M1530 for $1198 plus tax and that included a T8300, 250 GB hard drive, 4 GB RAM, 8600M GT, a 4 year warranty for parts, labor, accidents and 4 years of Lojack theft protection as well. This is how much an HP configuration would cost:

P7350, 9600M GT, 4 GB RAM, 250 GB Hard drive, 4 years of Lojack, and 3 years of accidental, parts, labor warranty for $1538.98 before taxes.

I highly doubt it's worth sacrificing a year of my warranty and $365 for a 9600M GT...

 

To be honest, you aren't going to beat what you have for the price you paid. You have everything beat except the video card. And you won't see that large of a performance increase for $365.

 

Yeah I've looked a very long time to find a good deal and it really kills me to find out that after buying one, it may be defective.

 

You can test it to see if it is affected. Even so, you got a long warranty and if you apply the new BIOS it should prolong any sort of failure for a long time.

 

What should I use to see the temperatures of the GPU? Also, how do I check it? Should I just play a game and then alt-tab into that program?

 

HWMonitor is a good choice... http://www.cpuid.com/hwmonitor.php

 

Hmm, is 56 degrees Celsius without running anything other than Firefox a bad sign?

 

No that's fine. Running at 80C idle is BAD.

 

I'm running I8kfanGUI with the fan running in low mode. My 8400m GS idles at 48c and sometimes drops to 45c. Without I8kfanGUI it'll idle between 50-53c.

 

Regardless of whether or not some are bad, I have an XPS M1530 on the way with the 8600M GT nvidia card and I have already talked to customer service regarding returning it. I have a hard time accepting the fact that I would keep what could possibly be faulty unit sitting around paranoid that it could fail, looking at temps, reading message boards and not enjoying my new laptop. There is no way to tell if it's good or not but I'm a believer that you deserve what you pay for. If you pay for the nvidia option, you deserve to get one that works and is designed properly, regardless of any length of warranty.

 

Why don't you at least try it first and form your own decision instead of reacting to internet hyperbole.

 

Again, its not a matter of 'testing' anything! It will work fine, temperatures be damned..this is a long term reliability issue based on fluctuating temperatures that cannot be avoided in a laptop!!. If there is a widespread manufacturing defect, which is highly likely based on the little information Nvidia is releasing, it may not show for a few years down the road at which point you may very well be out of warranty and sh*t out of luck. The lack of information from Nvidia and Dell speaks volumes. Obviously they need to protect their bottom line and this is the BEST approach right now to ensure laptop sales continue. Pushing this issue out over a few years makes sense. Its good for them; not for the individual. Until they are forced to come clean, this approach will continue.

All I am saying is that we as a community and customers should demand answers and stand up for our rights. Why should we assume the very nice folks at Dell or Nvidia give one rats *ss about any one of us, they care about their stock holders end of story. This means avoiding these laptops, If it were me, I would return it asap, find alternatives which will force Dell to act. They have not said current laptops are free of this defect, the wording is purposefully vague...SO, this type of thread needs to continue until the truth comes out so we all know that there is a solution down the road once my or your GPU dies rendering your laptop a paperweight. My two cents based on putting two and two together, until I hear otherwise the saga continues...

 

I've seriously thought about that because the XPS is what I really wanted but it's hard to believe that Nvidia taking a $200 million charge, Dell admitting it with new bios and switching to ATI on their new studio line, and all of the numerous posts of failing chips on HP's, Dell's, etc. as hyperbole.

 

How do you test the GPU to see if it is affected? Do all affected GPUs run hot?

 

Where exactly is it going bad? Is it the contacts on the BGA chip to the motherboard or is it inside the BGA chip, which I am guessing between the chip and packaging itself. Because if it is just the contacts between the BGA chip and the motherboard, I could possibly try and reflow the solder if it were to ever break in the future.

 

No. You can't test to see if it's effected. This isn't an overheating issue.

 

They get really hot before the fan kicks on. The Dell BIOS makes the fans kick on earlier so that it won't get extremely hot like before, but the chip is still flawed. This is just a band aid solution.

 

I own two Vostro's. A 1500 (8400m GS) and a 1700 (8600m GT). Both machines idle between 45-50c. What's amusing is both my machines should be on the list but are not because the aforementioned article states every GPU will fail. I find that really hard to believe.

It sounds like you found the system you've wanted for a while. I would keep it and wait for the dust to settle. If it's really that serious which I doubt there will be a recall or you can just buy a 3-4 year extended warranty. That's if you planned on keeping it that long.

p.s. The PS3 has been suffering from Blu-Ray drive failures and the Xbox 360 from the dreaded RROD and gamers still buy both machines. Just get an extended warranty and you can rest easy.

 

That Inquirer article was pure speculation and hyperbole if anything. They have a very anti-nVidia slant. I would definitely like an ATi option though in the future.

 

They also hate Microsoft with a passion as they affectionately refer to them as the "Vole".

 

Inquirer is not a good source by all means. They are incredibly biased. One of their articles says the Xbox 360 has twice the power of the PS3. Yeah, its not the best source out there. Its a great read if you just want to read for fun, but don't take it seriously. They have their own obvious bias and feelings.

 

There was a description of the problem in the update section starting about halfway down this page --> heise.de article
Unfortunately it's in German, which I can't read very well. Putting it through the Babelfish translater isn't much better, but gives a general idea of what the problem is with the "packaging material" (or "housing" as Babelfish translates it to).

 

Exactly - it's not a problem of the chip getting too hot, it's a problem of thermal cycles, warming up and cooling down, that causes the packaging material to fail. Keeping the range between coolest and hottest as small as possible is why the fan behaviour has been changed via the BIOS.

 

From >> http://direct2dell.com/one2one/archive/2008/07/25/nvidia-gpu-update-for-dell-laptop-owners.aspx

Cheers.

 

I ordered an XPS M1530 on Sunday night after months of researching laptops. After I placed the order, reading about Dell's bios update made me want to cancel and get the HP dv5t. I've been reading the posts, and what little Dell and nvidia have said, and I think that while nvidia is being dodgy, I think Dell is doing what they can with what they know.

Nvidia said they don't have the exact problem pinned down, and they can't say that the problem won't be found in other products. They name laptop design and use patterns as potentially exacerbating the problem, in addition to the weak die/packaging material. Based on this, if you're Dell (or HP, or Apple), why would you do a mass recall and replace all of the videocards--before they fail--and before you know exactly what is going on? You could end up replacing them more than once for EVERYONE, not just those who have failing cards. And if Nvidia is right and the problem extends beyond the videocard and to the laptop designs, then switching to ATI might not help matters much. In my research, I've noticed that Nvidia seems to have the lion's share of the laptop graphics card market, so it could be that ATI cards would fail too but we just don't know because there isn't as many. So instead, Dell is trying to prevent failures and costly repairs/replacements by keeping the laptop cooler. Yes, this is a bandaid fix, and I think Dell knows this. Lionel's Dell blog said that this wouldn't be the last post on the topic and he would pass on information as he gets it.

Until Nvidia figures out exactly what's wrong, and shares that information with Dell, there isn't much more that Dell can do other than try to keep laptops that are currently fine from failing. If they do start failing out of warranty, for a known defect, it would be a PR nightmare (not to mention a class action lawsuit) to not make things right for those customers.

Just my two cents.

 

There are a ton of english articles that describe it. Why do you look for a German article? XD

Highly doubt that is true. It's just Nvidias attempt to put some of the blame on the manufacturers of the notebooks.

 

If I understood correctly new Dell laptops will also contain this patched BIOS. Can Dell sell laptops that it knows contain defective GPU? Or are they applying this patch just in case, because they either don't know which GPUs are affected or trust NVIDIA to tell the truth (remember when this news broke NVIDIA implied that only older low end models were defective). If NVIDIA does not want to reveal which GPUs are defective, the scope of this flaw must be huge. Possibly all NVIDIA GPUs suffer from this defect.

 

Sooo....I just had my main board replaced on an unrelated issue at least that's what I think as it just wouldn't boot up one day...wierd......does that mean it would involve a new GPU as well??? was very quick BTW less than week turn around time..

 

After lots of searching, I bought a Vostro 1400 certified refurb. with an 8400 GS from the outlet. It hasn't even arrived yet and I'm already worried given the info in this thread. Had I known how serious this issue was (I heard about it a bit before hand but thought the BIOS patch fixed it) I would have gone with the HP dv5z's integrated ATI 3200 chip.

From what I've read in this thread new batch GPUs are apparently fixed. Does this mean that my refurb would have had its GPU replaced with a non-defective unit?

What's this copper mod thing? I saw it mentioned several pages back. Will this fix it? Can I do it myself easily?

 

I know eh...already went through this on the infamous grainy screen issue...now this.....may have to purchase the extended warranty ...sigh....

 

Be aware, per Dell's own Lionel Menchaca (see the first page of this thread and re-read his BLOG post):

This statement does not say the manufacturing defect/problem/whatever you want to label it as has been fixed on new systems being ordered today from Dell. What he is saying, is any new system ordered will have the applicable BIOS update/revision installed. That is all. You be the judge as a consumer if this is acceptable to you.

 

Because it's the only article I've seen that attempts to explain what it is about the "packaging material" that could be causing the failure. It talks about the connections and why they could be affected by heat cycling if they aren't properly designed or if flawed materials are used. It also suggests why some people have reported their GPU temperatures running hotter than normal shortly before their cards failed.

 

Chelet, I work with a great many German speakers who are technically minded... (automotive). I will run the article by them tomorrow to see if there is any insight to be gained.

 

Who ever recieved a Nvidia system recently, please run GPU-z and post the Revision/Stepping of the gpu.

If the revision is still the same as the older gpu's then NOTHING has been changed.

They probably stopped the mass manufacturing of the G86/84m gpu's a while ago and they are just getting rid of it now to make way for the new line of gpu's

 

Maybe the reason that the Vostro 1500 is not included in the list of bios updates is because Dell already slipped in the fix with the A06 Bios update on June 19, 2008, before the Nvidia news was leaked to the public.

 

Well, HP did... so..

Still, Dell's delay in making a patch for the XPS line would be pretty sad... considering it is the premium line.

 

I have been using my Vostro 1310 for two months now, not realizing I could be one of the victims out there. So I took a screen shot of the temperature I got on the GPU and processor as a comparison to all of you.

SPEC:
- T5670 1.80GHz
- 1G of ram
- 8400m GS
- Temp of GPU, 63C idle while using Firefox
- Maximum performance setting on power setting
- Running on outlet only
- Original BIOS, A06
- Tried running multiple programs like Photoshop, Illustrator, Realplayer, Windows media player, and Firefox. The temperature remains the same

[/IMG]

So, is my GPU's temperature average, low, or high? I don't want to upgrade the BIOS because I am afraid that the fan will be constantly on.

 

Thats average. You should consider upgrading since your only on A06... the battery life decrease from A08 to A09 is only 10 minutes for me, so its not that big of a deal. I still get close to three hours as opposed to a little over 3 hours with 6-cell.

 

One more thing, the fan kicks in every 40 secs or so, and last around 30 secs during idling. Will the new A10 BIOS lengthens or shortens the time which fan comes on and off? Thanks in advance.

UPDATE: After updated the BIOS to A10, I noticed the fan averagely stayed longer both during on and off. The fan is on for 55 secs, and then off for 140 secs. The noise level is the same, but during the installation of the new BIOS, the fan was really loud.

Also, there is a slight temperature difference, from the average of 63C to now 60C.

 

I don't think GPU-Z is reliable. It shows mine as Rev A2, whereas the device manager in windows shows the hardware id's as Rev A1. Which do you believe?

 

A hardware ID is a vendor-defined identification string that Setup uses to match a device to an INF file. In most cases, a device has associated with it a list of hardware IDs. The first hardware ID in the list should be the device ID, and the remaining IDs should be listed in order of decreasing suitability.

GPU-z is correct.

 

Well, I bought an XPS M1530 with the cursed gpu chip in it last week, should arrive before next friday. I contacted dell about this as it is concerning, and they came back and said

"We only use premier parts to build your machine. You can call technical support if you encounter any problems with your Dell. There is no need to send the entire order back if there is a fault."
Ehh..