*Official* NBR Desktop Overclocker's Lounge [laptop owners welcome, too]

Update: Z170 board (Maximus VIII Extreme) is still a no joy. Getting the 00 error code. After trying resetting the bios with the button on the back, cleaning the VRM on front and back, re-seating the ram, re-seating the CPU (and using the air duster to blow a small piece of debris out, although I do not think that was interfering with connectivity), I am now down to pulling the battery for 15 minutes and holding down power to drain the caps for at least 1 minute during that time. Beyond that, since no warranty on the board anyways, I might dig out the socket cover and run it in the dishwasher just to make sure all debris is gone and the board is clean, then let it dry for days, then put the cmos battery back in and try again.

 

Did you try the BIOS flashback/recovery? That operation actually completed (but obviously never fixed the dead mobo and CPU it killed) on the Apex board that I RMA'd.

 

I have not yet. Also noticed that pressing the bios switch button would not allow switching to the secondary bios on the board. I might pull out the bios chips and manually flash them with the eeprom flasher. I'm hoping the CPU is fine from all this (10 to 1 it didn't die because before the 00, it was working when I stopped using the system entirely).

But I'll give that a try later. I'm setting this aside to move onto the z490.

 

It is really pathetic how common the 00 error code is becoming on ASUS's crap. Sad, too. It doesn't seem very common that it kills the CPU as well. I have only seen one other example from the ASUS forums where it happened to someone other than me. It is normally just the mobo. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem nearly as uncommon for ASUS mobos to die like this. Yours makes 4 of us in this thread now, so it strikes me as being an unacceptably common QC problem for them.

 

To be fair, I have had the board in service since 2016 and bought it as an open box (so likely previously RMA'd or returned because of another reason). So around 4 years before failure does make it slightly different than those having it die the same year as purchased.

Also to be fair, my Asrock Taichi x399 is still going strong and is not that much younger. And I've had BIOSTAR motherboards last over 8 years with an Athlon XP.

We'll find out.

Moreover, I've tried picking up old Z170 boards on ebay. Two purchases in a row, the socket was destroyed with bent pins. I don't mind used hardware, but all these noobs trying to build their own systems seem to be mangling the socket pins and then selling it on ebay. Just wanted to give a heads up.

 

Will we see a backlash for 3DMark suite? Time will tell what solution Futuremark will go for. But from what I have seen from UL I haven't the big hopes.


Yeah, you won't get same/higher scores if you put in more running (security) tasks in the background

 

Two Asus boards, two deaths. The first Zenith II Extreme died within two months, replaced with another and then sold after 5 months. Sidegraded to the Zenith II Extreme Alpha and it dies two and a half months of service. This time no real overclocks. I don't know if my CPU is good or not. Asus got the board on Friday. I'll know whether they will replace it sometime this week.

On the other hand, I have had several other Asus boards that are working, including my X299 Rampage that sits in the corner. This leads me to believe that newer Asus boards are complete overpriced trash. For future Intel builds, only EVGA and for AMD, I have to do a lot of research on what brand to choose. Likely Asrock or Gigabyte.

 

AMD Ryzen 5000 ‘Zen 3’ Desktop CPUs & X570 Motherboards Have High Failure Rates, Reports PowerGPU wccftech.com

While the Gigabyte board, small 120mm water cooler + the i7 in the old is now near 9 years old and still works

 

I noticed my GPU was running hot today. I was playing some games earlier, and saw 45C on my 2080Ti in Cyberpunk 2077. I hadn’t messed with my water loop in easily a month or so. Usually it peaks at 36C maximum GPU temps. I flushed it out with just distilled water, and fortunately the temps went right back down again. I dunno what may have caused the higher temps. I am using a green pastel coolant, but it is heavily diluted down. It is probably 60% water, and 40% coolant. So I was thinking maybe the coolant was breaking down or something, I dunno.


Any ideas what may have caused this temp spike?

I flushed all the green out, and I am back on strictly distilled water. And it’s running 35-36C again.

 

It could have been the colored stuff. It is best to avoid any colorants for that reason. But, it may not have been. How long had the system been running? Are you running your heater? Are the ambient temps the same as they normally are? Maybe the coolant itself reached a higher temperature from extended use and warming over time? Flushing it would bring down temperatures all by itself if the liquid was cooler.

You need to run a biocide with distilled water or deionized water because it will begin to develop organic growth without it. It doesn't take very long for that to begin to occur. That will clog the fins in your water blocks as well.

 

I do not care for either of these games because they are not first-person shooters. I have them mainly because they have a built-in benchmark. They run on Linux using Steam Photon. This is with the 3090 KPE running stock on Linux.

 

Awhile back, I dyed my own water. The particulates gunked up my CPU block and one of my radiators. After that, I said screw color. Clear with UV is as far as I'll go, and when I get around to it, switching over to rubber hose.

Clear will gunk less than pastel. So even getting clear fluid will generally have less change over time in temp and be more stable.

 

DOOM runs on Linux with official support. DOOM Eternal is not "official" but using Photon Experimental it seems to work just as well as the prequel.

 

Ambients are identical always 70F. It has only been about a month since i’ve been running (3) 360mm radiators.

Anyways. It is back to normal temps. Runs around 36C in games. Before the flush it was 45C easily maybe even a little more. The system has been running for hours now. And I can confirm that it still peaks at 36C like it did a few weeks ago.

I didn’t really see anything dirty in the old coolant, but I didn’t look at it too well either. The system was spotless inside the last time I took the GPU block apart “2-3 weeks ago”

I’m not really sure why it started running 9-10C warmer. I’m just glad it’s back to normal.

I flushed 2 gallons of distilled water through it today. And added a little PC coolant for corrosion inhibitor properties only.

It’s running good again though.

 

So, opening up a can of worms here.

I'm practically down to my IC Diamond 24, so my gelid extreme and thermal grizzly kryonaut have run out. I could pick up 10g or so of each the KPx, the TG Kryonaut, and the Gelid Extreme for $30 or so. Any recommendations on which of the three, or is there a new contender to watch. I won't buy the Kryonaut extreme. Only way to buy it is $100 for 33g or something like that (buying any other lower amount is unreasonable due to weight per price). But if doing that, KPx is $60 for 30g, or $2g and I would likely do that before the Kryonaut Extreme.

So which paste?

 

Pastels have particulate. That is why it looks pastel and why it can settle if the pump is not running, etc. Particles, over time, can gunk up blocks.

This is why we are wondering if the particulates in the pastel may have done something.

 

I have never used KPx. Phobya NanoGrease Extreme is better than those other two options in my experience. Even MX-4 works better for me than Kryosnaut or Gelid. I am using Liquid Pro bare die on the big desktop. On the little one I am using NanoGrease Extreme. MX-4 actually works really well for me when the contact is perfect, which makes it not ideal for most laptops. It is super easy to clean up as well, much like Gelid GC Extreme in that respect.

 

Oh the pastel coolant in my loop was diluted to the point of being a really clear color green. It may even be like 15% pastel green 85% distilled water.

I ran 2 gallons through it so it’s back to normal temperatures.

If it happens again, i’m gonna take it apart. I feel like something may be floating around in there still.

 

It is the particles getting trapped in the fins that can mess it up, not how transparent it is. The particles are what give it color, so if there was any colorant left it could result in clogging of the fins. The fins act almost like a filter in catching foreign material of any kind.

 

I really enjoyed MX-4 years ago on a couple laptops. Even in Tom's Hardware circa 2017, they found it to work great in medium pressure environments, of which a laptop with good contact would be. I did not have any complaints. Kryonaut I don't like because you have to be sure to get rid of ALL the nano-aluminum before doing LM or you will have the LM age quickly and not be as long lived as you would hope. Never used phobya yet.

But I really want to give the KPx a try, and at 10g for $30, it is about how much I'd pay for the phobya from modmymods (around $36 for 10.5g).

 

Bro @Falkentyne talk a lot nice about Thermalright TFX. This could be an good option also. He prefer that one over most of the high end paste.

 

I have a lot of experience with the KPx TM. Works extremely well. While not a scientific study, I always saw the CPU on average a couple of degrees cooler running KPx compared to TGK. The purpose of KPx is extreme cooling which I don't do, so it could be my imagination that it runs cooler.

 

Same here. I use KPx thermal paste. And my imagination makes it run cooler! I have kpx on my CPU and GPU. Both run around 36C in games. I have a whole gram
of the stuff on my gpu lol. TU102 is pretty big haha.

I have also reused KPx thermal paste with no degradation in performance. “re-using I mean” Like reseating blocks, confirming proper contact with die to block. I have scraped the fresh back up and re-applied it without a impact on temperatures. You can only do this like once or twice.

 

I've been having these weird, random/sporadic issues with my HX1200 PSU where every once in awhile the system won't power on or the system will try to post (everything lights up dimly), never make it, power down and try again 5-10 times in a row. For the most part, it works ok when it gets up and running but some quick research shows my particular HX1200 is under the Corsair recall program:

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/corsair-issues-hx1200-hx1200i-psu-recall

This would explain a lot about just odd little system start up issues and inconsistencies I spent a serious amount of time trying to isolate. It wasn't till I finally installed the PSU on my brother's currently stress testing 5600x system and was able to duplicate the inability to start up/cycle issues I realized the PSU was the culprit. My unit is in the faulty 2030-2041 run.

I do know it was with the Corsair my previous EVGA FTW Z390 suddenly started having power up issues, that odd cycling power up issue and eventually it was dying with uncontrollable CPU fans and the lower M.2 slot died which EVGA replaced under the RMA program. I've had a few power up issues with the RMA'd board and one instance of that power cycling problem.

 

Let us know how the recall goes. Are they sending you a replacement? A misbehaving PSU can cause all sorts of weirdness.

 

Sounds similar to an issue that Seasonic had with a specific line recently.

Overall, it seems like quality on ALL electronics have been headed down. Now, we were having an economy crash BEFORE covid (don't believe me, look up Repo Market in September of 2019, Blackrock's plan for the coming recession in Aug. of 2019, discussion of yield inversions starting Dec. 6, 2018 and throughout 2019, along with the research showing yield inversions signal a recession within 22 months, originally published in the 80s and proven correct in every event since publication (predicted all but like 2 events), or economist Roe's work on arguing that short-termism doesn't exist wherein he discusses the low interest rates from Obama and stock buybacks and mentions, in passing, that if a large influx of cash would happen (see Trump's tax cuts) cutting off the need for loans, while simultaneously boosting stock prices, you would wind up seeing a vicious circle of rising interest rates, which when added to the trade war with China causing rising prices and interrupting supply chains (which also likely took its toll on product quality, along with moving manufacturing, training new staff, looser quality assurance at new plants than the old ones, etc.) increased costs of goods, thereby looking like inflation when combined with the high level indicator of stock prices, justifying the Fed to raise rates, which they did 4x in 2018 against Trump's requests (almost like Trump knew it would throw a wet blanket on the market, while I doubt he understood that it would result in a yield inversion of T-bills resulting in a recession and collapse of debt markets) which led to the cascade of our economy collapsing, whereas covid just accelerated it with shutdowns making it way worse and so people blame the virus instead of the banks, Obama for the ultra low interest rates which facilitated stock buybacks and debt over equity financing for corporations, along with Trump wanting to juice the market without knowing the ramification in that moment in time while fighting a trade war, and the Fed Chair Powell which is a dip that decided to raise interest rates, in part as a weapon on IMF debt negotiations in south america (think it was Argentina specifically) using the dollar as a sword, which ultimately led to the economic crisis; now pushing billionaires plans for global domination with the Great Reset; Build Back Better; innovation zones ( https://apnews.com/article/legislat...vada-economy-2fa79128a7bf41073c1e9102e8a0e5f0 ) - see https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/how-life-could-change-2030/ (original title: Welcome To 2030: I Own Nothing, Have No Privacy And Life Has Never Been Better https://www.forbes.com/sites/worlde...ifferently-well-live-in-2030/?sh=160776f61735 ) showing Dems and neolibs selling us out to corporate interests and billionaires, but I digress).

So, this seems like a long time building and this will likely not go away anytime soon on what seems like a degradation in quality of hardware.

 

They're supposed to offer advanced replacement which I will use so I have no downtime as my last spare EVGA PSU went into my brother's 5600x. They handled my DDR4 SODIMM 3600 RMA pretty well (exchanged for the 3800 sticks in my sig), so I'm expecting a decent experience
especially since it is a recall.

 

I have had a couple of experiences with Corsair Support and both were decent.

 

I had an exchange of my corsair k95 keyboard. Their customer service was excellent. I had a couple keys double typing after a firmware update. They swapped it out and it has worked flawless since.

 

I'm still waiting on my replacement. They act like they no longer have the board.

 

Grrrrr. That's got to be super frustrating.

 

I would be if I didn't have another comparable system to tinker with, that's for sure!

Although I may get with you later about testing Linux as I was never a Linux guy and have not used it in a very long time.

 

Based off tracking, my board arrived at their repair deport last Friday. No update, not one even stating they received the board. I'll give them to the end of the week before I inquire...because COVID-19. Luckily for me, I do have my 6950X, 7960x and 9900k combos.

The 6950X reminded me how difficult overclocking can be. One degree off and the system freezes. Hahaha.

 

It's alive! AL I VE! MUAHAHA!

So gigabyte board (z490) and 10700KF are good. I'll be reassembling that system shortly.

Once the paste comes in (30g of KPx), I'll repaste all the machines and graphics cards. Debating on lapping the CPUs. Probably will at least lap the 1950x. No warranties. Might lap the IHS on the 10700kf. Haven't decided yet. But would probably fix the one core running hotter than the others.

Edit:

BTW, the Tom's Hardware 85 TIM roundup from 2017 was done by none other than Igor Wallossek of Igor's lab before the JUST BUY IT Raytracing thing that caused him to quit, in part.
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/thermal-paste-comparison,5108.html

https://www.igorslab.de/en/waermeleitpasten-chart-2/


Also, for those that like MX-4, there is an Arctic MX-5 coming around mid-March. So there may be a replacement coming for it that could do really well, especially considering how many have reformulated and then tacked "extreme" onto their products in the past 2 years. Granted, those new formulations generally have been good, but come on marketing departments!

Anyways, here is the article mentioning it.
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/arctic-mx5-paste-spotted

 

Finished my brother's 5600x with the 30" display I'll be giving him to go with it in a few weeks (sans KB/M) built to his frugal microATX specifications and low key look:



My wife finally took full ownership of my DG-77 with a little change up requested by her. I'll be changing up her mouse colors next time to match.



Mine is still a work in progress as I wait for a 3.0 splitter, more extensions, WD 1TB RGB PCIe and two sets of fans. it it still stripped down to the frame still:

 

Sounds like my experience when I pulled out the 4930K setup. i was thinking I was on the 10900K setup and kept on crashing at first. Then of course it hit me..... I needed to be around 4.5 not 5.1. on AIO water block.

 

Looks like we talked them up as I just got tracking info today. Say's it will be here next week.

 

How long did it take from the day your mobo arrived to their service depot for them to acknowledge your mobo was received? I find it odd that it will be almost five business days tomorrow, with no package acknowledgement. I honestly do not care if they have my mobo for a month or so, just that it is in their hands.

 

6 days going by my records.

Hi. Your package was delivered Tue, 02/02/2021 at 9:07am.
Delivered to 121 RIVER RIDGE CIR, Jeffersonville, IN 47130
Received by *****

• 1
• RMA No.USPCM*****
• Serial NumberL7M0KCKK*******
• Product[Motherboard] ROG MAXIMUS XII EXTREME
• Receive Date 2021/02/08
• Complete Date 2021/02/17
• Repair Status Thanks for your inquiry! Repair process has completed and your product has been shipped back to you.
• Forwarder FedEx Home Delivery
• Tracking No.78381*******
• MemoOriginal S/N: L7M0KCKK*******

Estimated delivery date:
Tuesday, February 23, 2021 by end of day. (But it hasn't actually been shipped yet. Only that a label was created.)

Creation date:
Wednesday, February 17, 2021
9:16 AM

 

Well you know it's serious when Corsair not only authorizes the RMA but also includes a prepaid UPS label for return.....

 

I went the way of the Fox. Brother @Mr. Fox that is.

After that BS on the last rma I just basically talked trash everywhere Asus asked me for my feedback. And what I thought of there service. Then this instance happen and I fully took the time to completely look over the entire board. Sent high res pictures and told them I do not want to hear any nonsense about water.

They paid for Fedex to ship back to them.

Corsair and G.skills I just drop off locally.

 

Sitting here, thinking that a good portion of people in this thread are going through a RMA process. What are the chances of that? hahahaha.

 

Not only in this forum/threads It seems no brand is a safe buy nowadays, LOOL


Fireworks in the PC and purchase warning: Gigabyte's current P750GM power supplies affected by total losses igorslab.de

Various threads on Reddit and LinusTechTipps have also taken up the topic in the meantime and there is an alarming trend of more than 100 affected users, which concerns damage or failures alone.

 

Slightly off topic

Im looking at expanding my Precision 7810 that I received for free some time ago. I was mistaken in thinking that it uses e5-2600 v4 series CPU's which are still quite expensive for me, luckily I verified this is not the case and mine uses v3.

So I have perusing ebay

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-Intel...Core-LGA2011-3-Processors-GRAD-A/133654497979 14-core 3.2 turbo iirc

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Micron-128...-Registered-ECC-Memory-PC4-17000/254851932987

Im looking to simulate in virtual scenario an actual enterprise workplace and also SCCM to some other desktops I have. Various 9020 SFF and Tiny PC's

Wish me luck lol

 

Good luck, bro!

 

That must be such a nice luxury....nice.

 

In reality, yes! Wish is was like that for EVGA, since they are just as close.

 

So, I cannot get it much tighter than this with these specific DIMMs. One note, if you cannot get the write to read delay to go down by setting tWTR_L and tWTR_S, use tWRRD_sg and tWRRD_dg. Lowering those lowers it on the IMC side for the ram timings.

I tried to get the board to train with lower RTL and IO-L. With Gigabyte, the only way to force it to use your settings in the BIOS is to, after setting it in BIOS, turn off the power entirely. When you turn it back on, it will try to train the ram. I could never get it to train with the tighter RTL and IO-L, but that is for anyone else running a Gigabyte board.

I couldn't get CL15 and CWL12 to fully train stable. Maybe if I left the write to read delay looser, or the tRFC. But the performance is not drastically difference. Still have more testing, but Karhu and HCI Memtest stable is pretty stable. Just have some more to go. Remember (more for lurkers reading or those less familiar with the process of testing memory), you must test not only that the memory is stable, but that the memory WITH the cache included in stressing is stable. So, for the programs that allow you to include the cache (although testing with cache and passing is prima facie it is good), you should run it both with and without the cache.

 

What happens if you raise the tREFI?

 

tREFI can help, generally, but has a diminishing returns on how it helps with performance. tREFIx9 should be maxed out if possible. It is the window in which however many tREFI occur. For tREFI, people often max it out, and it can seem stable, but it is harder to test if it is actually stable. One suggestion for testing tREFI because it is the refresh interval is to get a large file and put it into memory (like by creating a drive) and hold it there for a period of time long enough that errors can accrue due to information loss from not refreshing soon enough causing data errors. You then do a checksum of some type to compare the hash of the original file and the later file.

This will not usually effect general files or use in memory, so most recommend to take whatever the auto sets, up it by 5,000 at a time until you see no increase in performance, then stop.

The refresh interval is when the charge in the cells is refreshed. If the cells lose their charge before the content of the cell is copied, you can lose the information or wind up with corruption. You will usually see this problem from other timings before you see it from setting the tREFI, but there is always that chance. If you don't get a performance lift by increasing the amount of time before it refreshes the cells, then no reason to have it higher than it needs to be. If you have the refresh interval too low, then the memory has to copy the information out to refresh the cells more often than is necessary, thereby lowering the performance. So higher is better, until you see no more gains, then stop to prevent data corruption.