*Official* NBR Desktop Overclocker's Lounge [laptop owners welcome, too]

A bit of an odd question, but are any of you guys aware of any good/decent 3d printable delid tools?

 

In the Intel Chipset drivers I received from canonkong and in the Intel Chipset drivers you found (in quote above) there are not any "TigerPoint" INF files. There are Comet Lake and TigerLake, but no TigerPoint. They do not exist. And, those you linked are for a Gigabyte Z590 board. I downloaded them and installed them using the "have disk" method. They all worked for Windows 7 without modding. No issues with using them. They did not change anything with PCI Express Root Ports #9 and #21 having code 10. I have double-checked the hardware IDs in Windows 10 and 11 using the EVGA-provided motherboard drivers and the hardware IDs are all correct. So, maybe there is some sort of misinformation on the web regarding TigerPoint vs TigerLake, or maybe they are the same thing at the end of the day.

Side note: I tried disabling PE2 using the DIP switches and that did not change anything. I also disabled the PCIe 4.0 M.2 slot #1 in the BIOS and it did not change anything.

I have seen them on eBay, but I am not sure if they are any good. I can't imagine a plastic delid tool working well. It doesn't seem like plastic would be strong enough.

 

So I noticed that I have lost the "Set Up G-Sync" option in the Nvidia Control Panel after installing my new panel into my laptop.

Was the X170 shipped with 2 different versions of the 144 Hz screen, one with G-Sync and one without? It's not a big deal if I lost G-Sync since I prefer a locked 144 fps anyway.

 

Windows 10 & Intel Core i9-12900K Alder Lake Performance Review - E Cores Causing Any Trouble? techpowerup.com | today

What's probably the most important takeaway from this article is that Windows 10 works very well with Alder Lake, despite the lack of support for hybrid architectures or Thread Director. In the vast majority of cases you'll barely notice any difference between Windows 10 and Windows 11, so it comes back to "can you live with the Windows 11 start menu/all changes?" Nope.

See also Pudget Systems conclution... http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/windows-11.836230/page-84#post-11126986

"To summarize it, however, in most cases we saw virtually no difference between Windows 11 and Windows 10. In fact, the two applications where there was a drop in performance with Windows 11 was actually with the brand new Intel CPUs"

 

The Alphacool VPP755.V3 is identical to a normal D5. Same length, same width. It’s Alphacool’s own in house design of the D5.

However, the VPP755V3 has more head pressure. There was some failure on the early models of these pumps though. Especially the V1/V2 models. However, the V3 fixed all of this. Unfortunately some retailers were still shipping the V1/V2 models. (This was years ago) so it’s only V3’s available for sale now.

I have let this one run all night and all day at 100% (4500-4600RPM) just to confirm reliability. And so far so good!

This VPP755v3 is also quieter than my ekwb D5. It’s a very very nice little pump. Especially for under $40 bucks with the top and all.

It’s quiet, and pumps like a beast.

 

Unfortunately, G-Stink on laptops is managed in a very draconian, Nazi-like manner. If the panel is an identical part number and the EDID is different, that is going to break G-Stink. As you already mentioned, it is better to have a high refresh rate. Unless you are consistently running games higher than 144 FPS it is pretty much an irrelevant gimmick.

 

Had they tested with Windows 10 LTSC, they would have discovered an even bigger gap in performance between Windows 10 and Windows 11 in the CPU bound titles with the efficiency cores disabled.

When I first installed Windows 10 LTSC, I immediately noticed my performance in Hitman (2016) was significantly higher. It led to about a 20% increase in framerate for me in CPU bound titles over Windows 10 Home Edition. That blew my mind at the time, and I didn't think that could be right, but it was.

I'm staying on Windows 10 LTSC as long as I can.

Strangely enough, I can no longer find the youtube videos I've seen in the past that highlight the major performance differences. I can only find ones that show minor differences now, and on low end hardware. Hmm... . I'm not sure why that is. Anyways, any of you can reproduce the same results I got on mid-range or high-end hardware.

 

I run Windows 10 LTSC. It works great! My numbers are so far beyond what reviews and game performance reviews would demonstrate, they would think I’m running next generation GPU lol. But it’s just heavy overclocks on Windows 10 LTSC.

 

Yeah I figured. Loosing G-Sync doesn't really matter to me since it doesn't do anything if your framerate is already the same as the monitor's refresh rate, which in my case I run everything at a locked 120 fps or locked 144 fps.

I was under the impression that since my laptop has the Premamod BIOS, everything would just work. I assumed there wouldn't be whitelists for anything.

Thanks for answering my question. The shenanigans I've had to put up with over the years owning high performance laptops has slowly been pushing me back towards desktops. Even though G-Sync doesn't matter to me, disabling a function because the hardware isn't exactly correct, even if it will work with the slightly different hardware, is just plain wrong. You shouldn't have to buy a specific part to get a specific function working, because you can bet the one vendor that sells that exact part will overcharge for it.

Desktops don't have any of these stupid issues. Everything just works when you plug a part in. It's like assembling an extremely expensive set of legos.

 

That depends. Which generation of hardware do you need the tools for?

 

PremaMod firmware doesn't change the hardware and hashes that have to be perfect in order for the licensing to be present. If anything upsets the apple cart, then it's broken. G-Stink on laptops is absolutely a joke how restrictive things are. In fact, there is nothing he can do to make it work on a system that doesn't have all of the stars aligned.

 

With some tweaking, I was able to get the power draw on my 10900K extremely low when idle or under very light loads.



2 watt idle power consumption on a 10900K!!!! This is freaking amazing! That's on the same level as mobile CPUs while idle! Power consumption under light loads with these settings is 3-5 watts.

So I can in fact have my cake and eat it too. These settings (now my power saver profile I'll be using while on battery power) will yield amazing battery life for my DTR, and I already have my performance profile that sees the CPU boost to 275 watts at 5.3 GHz across all 10 cores. Now I have my power saver and performance profiles.

Tinkering around with your hardware is fun.

 

You have to pay premium for Nvidia G-stink panels. The only difference vs the laptop panel is that you can use the desktop screen with your next gen HW. The greed have no limits. You shouldn't have to pay extra for this type tech. You have already paid more than enough for the graphics card.

 

Gotta hand it to Micro Center, I took that board back and they gave me a new board for the same discounted price as the used board ($50 off). No fuss at all. Oh and I also found out they offer a first responders discount which is nice of them.

 

Hopefully another company will enter the DTR market. The framework laptop company could make larger models (17.3/18.4/21.5? ) in the future with a form factor larger than MXM ( multi die gpus will require larger PCBs ? )

 

I wonder what he expected from Dell's high end gaming desktop. A more normal cooler? He could just tilt the desktop a bit and put something useful under the chassis and the cooler will come on level horizontal. But it won't help on the cooling, HaHa


Is the fan suppose to be like this? My pre build pc just came and the fan is like this.

I really hope he don't want to try liquid metal to make the cooling better. Alu and Lm are bitter enemies. Copper as you know is more expensive material and the thermal engineers got a no go from the shareholders to make it better.

 

That's unfortunate, the device installs but still Code 10. I only took Tiger Point name from AIDA64 screens that many posted on the Z490/Z590 platform here and OCN that's how I was mentioning that Tiger Point is Z590 (Z490 is Comet Point on Aida64) and the Tiger Lake was the mobile 11th gen CPU lineup name not sure what is their chipset name as I'm unaware of the Aida64 on that BGA junk.., yeah there's some mixed up information. Also since you mentioned even the VT-d Intel Virtualization Direct I/O DMA option is also disabled in the BIOS along with other Virtualization options, still unable to understand the error.

Also a big bad news...I saw the message at Win-raid, Fernando put up a notice saying the website will shut down in the future, by the end of this year. I'm completely heart broken...I read your Kingpin Z490 BIOS unlock post and that generous person Lost_N_BIOS modified the BIOS, he is MIA almost a year... Now the site is putting up a notice. Really sad. I do not know what to even think...

This website not only helped me with learning a lot about the Windows drivers, Windows 7 installs and a big help I got here's my story - I was having USB issues when I was using all my 4x USB ports, in which one of them has solder contact issue it runs at 2.0 speed (needs a replacement probably), but it's for Keyboard, Mouse, DAC and one port for DualShock 4 controller / Xbox Controller for RPCS3 emulation and some Japanese PC games like Nioh, Devil May Cry, Bayonetta since Japs do not port their games for KBM properly. The rest of the 3x3.0 ports were having issues when there were lot of I/O activity since I plugged 3x docks with WD Red NAS drives. I tried to do everything by removing all drivers, completely wiping out chipset drivers, restore points, changed the USAP USB3.0 docks that I use with Jmicron to buying docks with ASM controllers, and all USB3.0 cable tricks for months I had this issue..., and only one thing fixed. USB 3.0 modified drivers from Fernando, I wanted to post how they helped me and now I see this message.

Why does everything I like is going down. I don't see a message from the mod, Plato yet.. Hopefully there's some donation option pooling that could save the site. Really sad. Canonkong and his work, all those people who gathered around for sharing their solutions, drivers modified ones and all that information and invaluable knowledge, poof vanished

 

EK sold this at one point. Could be an alternative to liquid metal?
https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-tim-indigo-xtreme-intel-1155-1156
https://www.enerdynesolutions.com/prod_indigo.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field's_metal
What about this mixture? Only bismuth, tin, indium ( melts at 62C ).

 

See this. You need a very good fit. And its harder to work with http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...oenix-2-is-here.794530/page-735#post-10393985

Not as easy as you think. Lm for cooling is science. See the video in my older post... Use of more metal with higher thermal conductivity doesn't necessarily mean it will perform better http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...e-and-discussion.835993/page-30#post-11100665

 

Yes, I saw that about 2:30 AM before I went to bed and my heart sank. The post that Fernando mentioned apparently was not posted yet when I saw the pop-up notification. We are all in the same boat, brother. Everything awesome and good is either going away completely or being replaced by trash options that absolutely suck. I am thankful for the countless times and ways I have benefitted by the content at win-raid forum. Everything is going to become more difficult, maybe even some things impossible, without their collective technical expertise.

I got that Indigo Extreme thing to work fantastic on the 8700K desktop build shown in post #1 of this thread. It did an amazing job when everything was perfect. But, in the end it is WAY TOO expensive to use on a system that is constantly tinkered with because it is a one-shot deal. You can't gather it up, re-spread it and reuse it like you can liquid metal or thermal paste. It was a waste of time and money trying to making it work on a laptop.

 

Wow I just looked this up and found the thread on reddit. Seems like both AW & Clevo might not be releasing Alder Lake Desktop CPU + High Performance Laptop GPU in a true DTR form.

I was already afraid of this when I saw Area-51m R2 no longer being update with RTX 3000 series but Clevo as well and pretty much confirmed? RIP

The most interesting thing here is, the standard mxm 3.0b form factor may be alive. I will be trying to upgrade my M18xR2 further with A4000 (RTX 3060-3070 hopefully) and this is all thanks to a standard set yearssssss ago. It is rumored to be released Q1 2022.

We aren't done upgrading these older machines: http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...0b-alive-thread.795048/page-325#post-11128624 this is just the beginning as more of these fairy tale industrial GPUs come to consumer hands.

I hope we get some better news next year but this is a sad day indeed.

Was it mentioned why Clevo is no longer going for alder lake + 3000 super refresh? AW hasn't said anything yet but if Clevo isn't refreshing X170 then I don't see them releasing an R3.

-----------------

On a random sidenote since this is a desktop thread. My custom Aurora R4 running 10980XE is now no longer throttling! I was using the original AW 120mm AIO cooler. Just bought a Noctua NH-D15S and it hits 70c peak. Now to OC soon and benchmark. =)

 

If I had to take a wild guess, too many silly gamerboyz buying castrated BGA turdbooks that cost less and not enough performance notebook enthusiasts buying expensive high-end systems that aren't disposable trash.

And, that ^^^^^^ might also have something to do with it. They can't make enough money when they sell good products that can be upgraded and repaired. If they sell something that actually is good, they won't sell another good product to that person for a long time. It's probably a better fit for their cash-generating process to sell a new piece of trash to the same person every year or two.

---

Well, I finally found a useful purpose for my Amazon Kindle Fire tablet that I otherwise never use. I was going to throw it away, but I hadn't yet.

 

BTW I see you're on Z590 + 10900KF @Mr. Fox

Didn't you have a X299 system before? What made you switch? I'm on X299 + 10980XE right now and while Z690 + 12900K looks interesting I decided to wait for Saphire Rapids X (HEDT next year) at the earliest so changes platforms.

 

Basically boredom. Short of tearing my setup apart and benching on liquid nitrogen I had done everything that I could do with it and there were no more benchmarks left to conquer. By changing hardware I could at least gather a few extra points on HWBOT.

Based on my recent experiences, I am not certain what level of engagement I am going to have with new tech and I do not expect things will improve. I do not like the direction that things are headed overall, so I may end up pulling the plug. Time will tell.

Everything is such an extremely poor value right now it's not even funny. Yesterday I helped one of my sons build a new entry-level gaming system. I gave him my Neo Qube case, a Corsair AIO, an NVMe SSD, a bunch of 120mm fans, some RGB strips, my Logitech Carbon keyboard, mouse, etc. We purchased an Asus Prime Z590-P and i5-10600K, a 2TB HDD for storage, 16GB of Corsair Vengeance Pro RGB 3200 RAM, an EVGA BQ 700W PSU and a TUF GTX 1650 OC, but it still cost him $1,100 for those very mediocre components. It looks pretty sweet and it will do what he wants it to do, but it cost about double what I would consider it to be worth not even counting the $300-$400 worth of parts I gave him for free.

 

How was the performance vs liquid metal on a desktop? About the same?

 

Yes, it was basically the same as liquid metal. It was excellent. When I took off the water block a few months later, most of it peeled off in a sheet of metal, but some fragments were welded to the IHS that were difficult to remove. I ended up using a razer blade to scrape them off. What was kind of cool was the lazer writing from the IHS was visible on the sheet that peeled off. It reminded me of when I was a kid and played with Silly Putty and newspaper comic strips.

 

Win-Raid Forum future announcement

 

Thank you. I was waiting since yesterday, I cannot contain my immense sadness. I only discovered it recently, I heard the site mentioned by Papusan and you a while back but I never did get a chance to look at them. Upon joining the website in my quest to make a PC with Windows 7 on latest hardware I learned a lot and I'm shocked to see how much of Computer History is presented there and so many things, which are impossible to find anywhere else only site which comes close is MDL and I barely even checked the website.. it has only been a huge process of understanding the Desktops parts and whole CPU designs and everything slowly starting out but this broke my heart. I left my message too, in hoping there's a chance to make up by donations from the passionate people like us. The loss is like burning a library. Really sad...

 

My guess is that problems caused by the coronavirus pandemic means that people are buying less items that aren't essential for life, therefore significantly reducing the profitability of high end laptops for all vendors, especially halo products. I expect Clevo to introduce a new desktop CPU powered DTR once the pandemic is over.

I'm happy to see you've been able to take your M18xR2 so far. That has gotta be one of the best laptops ever for longevity. I wanted to keep upgrading my Ranger, but ultimately it wouldn't be worth it since its CPU is starting to become a bottleneck for high framerates in some of the newer titles I play, and I expect that bottleneck to become worse and extend into more titles in the coming years. That's why I pulled the plug and got my X170SM-G. The 10900K in it is a whole different universe of performance compared to the 4930MX in my Ranger.

I'm pretty sure my next build will be a portable desktop unless laptop GPUs reach performance parity with their desktop counterparts again like we had with Pascal and Turing. I really value portability and am not willing to compromise for it. It's perfectly possible to have your cake and eat it too when it comes to computers. The only limits are your own knowledge and ingenuity.

 

I've been dialing in the timings on my X170SM-G, having fun seeing the system not boot, having to swap back in the old modules as even a cmos/nvram clear won't clear it, swap back in Corsair 3800 sticks...rinse/repeat I'm content right now with these. I'll end up playing around with it down the road in pockets to tighten them up here and there and explore >3200 testing.



Spent the last few hours playing WoW on Ultra 10 everything max RT off with these settings and fps and lows definitely went up in trouble spots especially my test spot in the Bastion rear hall with the QM where it is very taxing. before memory tweaks, it would dip down from max 144fps panel to ~128fps. Now it stays locked in at 144fps. This same spot would bring my 3090 even OC'd to its knees and fps would drop to ~38fps Ultra 10 4k RT enabled.

For a brief second I thought I could downgrade to maybe a 2070 or even 2060 and pocket the difference but Outdoor raids and spots in Ardenweald would dip to ~100fps @ 1080p with Ultra settings so 2080 Super is my new baseline performance metric as we have so many vacation plans laid out over the next 12-16 months I'll definitely want something powerful on the road.

Everything maxed out, GPU tops out at 65c (67.5c in Timespy) and CPU at 83c (85c Timespy) so that is much better than before especially CPU. Fans are right at that point gaming where they are stuck between low/medium and medium/low high but never max which I only hear during boot up for the fan cleaning cycle.

I'm going to pick up another dirt cheap 256gb nvme the same as the one on there and just create a Raid 0 512gb drive and call it for storage needs atm.

It is running heads and tails better since pulling it out of the box.

 

Looks like you're making really good progress.

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I cannot do this (so far) with 32GB of dual rank, but I'm going to see if I can force the issue. The RAM and cache are in sync at 4600.

 

The 4930MX just doesn't OC as nice as the 3920XM. It runs hot and uses more power.

I mean my 3920XM even at 4.7Ghz gets destroyed by my 9900K even at stock in my Area-51m R1 but I don't really play many games and even if I do it's normally not high refresh rate.

I have multiple 3090s, Titan V, and other GPUs in desktops that I never even game with. It's more for fun.

The M18xR2 is an excellent example of a flagship made right but also the advantages of standards such as MXM 3.0b, Mini PCIe, 4 actual RAM Slots, etc.

We tried finding a modified CPU packaged for the pga socket but I believe it didn't work out.

For me I will try and source more of these GPUs and push these laptops further.

Even the 18 has been shown to have quite potential. Thanks to the MXM NVMe adapter, it also sports a power connector for GPUs that require more power so we are no longer limited to single MXM slot power. Although I am having some trouble getting mine provide full power at the moment.

 

I saw the Dark Z590 and memory scores and forgot your 11900k went to the great silicon heavens and went, "Whoa, those are some nice Gear 2 latency scores!" Then I saw the 10900KF and remembered.

Once the financial burn stops stinging you might end up picking up another 11900k to play with perhaps?

 

Man 12th gen runs hot and heavy scaling even with e-cores disabled but many of the numbers popping up are right in line with 11th gen 11900k's. I expected a much better decrease moving from 14nm to 10nm.

 

Anyone looking for a EVGA x570 Dsrk and a 5950x? I have both new in box going to list for $1350 shipped for both

 

Part of me really wants to. I am curious if that would fix my W7 PCI Express Root Port code 10 and no M.2 access. But, I haven't found any meaningful benchmarks that has scores higher with 11900K. It is difficult for me not to view it as a downgrade. I know that I would want to delid it and run bare die, too. In some ways the Z590 Dark also seems like a downgrade from the Z490 Dark. It is unfortunate that 11900K wasn't a 10 Core CPU but it already runs so hot with only 8 (not sure why) that I can't imagine how it would manage 2 more cores without catching on fire.

 

If Intel offered 10nm 11th gen desktop chips as a nice good bye for people with socket 1200 it could be a nice running chips and something worthy to own years forwards. But all love went to the BGA cancer to try stop AMD from grabbing even more market shares in notebooks Jokebooks. 10 cores 11th gen chips on 10nm would probably steal all the thunder from 12th gen. Can't do that as you know. The E-cores wouldn't be enough to make 12th gen shine over 11th gen.

 

That is very true. In the same way that many people that have 10900K don't care about 11900K, if 11900K were a 10-core replacement for 10900K then many people would not care about 12th Gen.

 

Well, Linux works well even though I am still having goofy things with Windows 7 happening. Maybe I will see how well Windows 7 works running in VirtualBox.

 

Wait a second. I just realized @Mr. Fox has 10900k in sig and went back and saw the unfortunate death of the 11900k. Sorry to see that. I was dealing with family stuff and wasn't on much last week. Damn man, sorry.

 

A little lookup / correction on Alder Lake borncity.de

For everyone with a Ryzen 5xxx or an Intel 10xxx, Alder Lake is more of a sidegrade than an upgrade. Alder Lake could be good for everything below that, for gamers with a Ryzen 3xxx or Intel 9xxx series only to a limited extent (unless every frame really counts), but is clearly recommended for applications.

And 11th gen is even a worse sidegrade.

Add in Win 11 into this upgrade mix and it will be worse than ever....

This “fix” is now part of an upcoming imminent update to Windows 11 that arrived for Beta and Release Preview users late on Friday, and the developer of EdgeDeflector isn’t happy with Microsoft’s changes. “These aren’t the actions of an attentive company that cares about its product anymore,” says Daniel Aleksandersen, developer of EdgeDeflector, in a critical blog post last week. “Microsoft isn’t a good steward of the Windows operating system. They’re prioritizing ads, bundleware, and service subscriptions over their users’ productivity.”

Microsoft blocks EdgeDeflector to force Windows 11 users into Edge thewerge.com

 

So are we looking to have PC's updating themselves again?

 

The corrupt brain trust would certainly like that. I don't think that I would ever be down with that.

 

This is my setup, running just a 5.3Ghz all cores and 3880Mhz Gear 1 CL14. It performs like it’s much faster memory though.


37.5NS latency with over 62GBPS bandwidth. This setting outperforms even DDR4 5,066Mhz with 40NS latency.

 

https://www.overclock.net/cdn-cgi/i...rclock.net/attachments/screen561-jpg.2532457/

Not mine yet but DDR5 is getting fast quick. Waiting on Newegg to get those sweet Sammie Trident Z5 in stock. They listed them but not in stock yet.

 

While the numbers look nice. It’s low frequency gear 1, that has it with Z690/12900K performance.

I saw a review of a 12900K running 8% faster frame rates with 3700CL16 Gear 1 over DDR5 5800.


It has interested me in Gear 1 performance for both platforms. Z590/Z690


Even Cinebench R15 numbers seem to perform better with Gear 1 on my platform. It’s all kinda confusing really lol.


If I had a Z690 I’d probably be after some really good gear 1 just for the numbers in games. And just use DDR4 at maybe 4000+ CL13/CL14

 

Nice. It makes sense that you are seeing those read/write/copy speeds because it is quad channel, not dual channel. Compared to HEDT quad channel speeds, it is bit slower (but slightly better latench) than I saw on my X299 system. But, it is still very respectable for a consumer-level system that is not HEDT. It's nice that quad channel is coming to consumer-level CPUs. If you divide by two, it is actually slower on a per-channel basis. So, while it is crazy fast, it isn't scaling well yet. That may improve in time as firmware and DDR5 is refined.

Here is what I was seeing with the memory running at a modest 4200MHz on X299...

https://hwbot.org/submission/4285877_mr._fox_aida64___memoryread(alpha)_ddr4_sdram_132324_mbs

 

I loved my x299 dark and 7980xe especially with my memory kit. That was such a tough CPU.

 

https://www.techpowerup.com/289010/...re-i9-12900k-set-new-3dmark-port-royal-record

 

That is really messed up no matter how you look at it.

The self-centered wickedness of the Redmond Reprobates closely resembles the iniquity of the Cupertino Clown Posse. They are like the Gestapo and Stasi of the tech industry. There is nothing good or desirable to be found in the dystopian black hole future that their filthy trash products offer unless you're a brain dead zombie that loves the idea of a digital apocalypse.