*Official* NBR Desktop Overclocker's Lounge [laptop owners welcome, too]

Have you guys seen how cheap It is to move to 12th Gen platform?

I saw a 12700K for $380, and a 12600KF for
$255 both open box on eBay. While 11900K is still pulling $480 used with bids.

Someone help me understand.

Is Windows 11 and DDR5 the cause of this?

I mean, I understand that 11th Gen is still competitive with 12th Gen in gaming. But the available stock and prices for 12th Gen seem pretty impressive.


Is it me or is this launch just not receiving
the attention it was supposed to? It’s almost like people just don’t care about upgrading. If I didn’t care about motherboards and bios as much, I’d probably be all over this platform.

 

I think it's a combination of factors. 12th gen is actually very cheap for the performance, especially when compared to what AMD was offering with their price jack once they had some leadership performance. Especially if you just grab a decent $200 board and reuse your old fast DDR4.

Then there is general lack of GPU availability which is leading to a lack of interest in PC gaming in my opinion. If they don't fix this soon, we could quickly see the huge boom in PC market reverse again. Nobody wants to be paying $1000+ for a mid range GPU forever. These crazy prices are also leading to people deciding to hang onto their GPUs/hardware for longer than usual. There are sales right now on eBay for $800+ for a freaking GTX 1080 Ti. That is crazy and driving people away. You can't exactly build a new rig today for much less than a few thousand dollars if you want anything decent. Its honestly making PC and the whole PC market a lot less interesting and fun.

https://www.provantage.com/intel-bx8071512700kf~7ITEP7RR.htm

If you don't need an iGPU the 12700KF for $386 is a crazy good deal.

 

I think @Talon is correct. There are probably some other factors contributing to it as well, but the poor availability and absolutely absurd pricing of graphics cards is going to have a very chilling effect. If you don't already own a desirable GPU to install in a new build, and you're not willing to volunteer yourself to become a rape victim in order to get one, there is almost no incentive to purchase a new CPU and motherboard.

If you consider how extremely messed up the economy has become in less than a year, with runaway inflation, food and energy prices spiraling out of control and poised to get even worse, I think a lot of people are being abnormally cautious about spending money on luxury items. With the draconian taxation that is guaranteed to coincide with a lunatic socialist agenda, people should be more worried about having the ability to provide themselves and their loved ones with basic necessities of life. There isn't much contest when you are faced with choosing gaming versus groceries.

 

Nice daily driver CPU and memory overclock on ambient temps.

 

Well I just got my Scythe Mugen 5 LGA 1700 mounting bracket. Looks like Saturday I'll be able to see how the 12700k does in the server.

 

Waiting on my AC LF II 420 brackets shipping from....germany.

 

Since many already mentioned. I have a few more points to add only on the CPU side of things.

AMD's AM4 socket is the main reason. Intel has been pulling the legs and arms of people for a decade now with LGA115x Socket EOL since Skylake 6th gen. When AMD launched Zen in 2017 Intel Haswell/Broadwell E became insanely cheap. Then once the AM4 was out, people had a lot of reasons not to move to that platform but with the increasing of Cores they got traction. With Zen+ they penetrated more, and of their X370 disaster X470 was a massive lift.

So many purchased that, once the Zen 2 launched Intel's 8th gen was beaten at SMT workloads on all sides (that's been the case since then until ADL), and they had to compete with 9th gen. Remember we have 2 CPUs per socket changes from Intel all this time while AM4 users simply kept replacing their CPUs when needed on top they launched X570 chipset in 2019 (Intels 9th gen era, Z390 EOL) since the rival platform was dead end, many opted for X570 and B550. So the market penetration was high, with Zen 3 it closed off Intel at Amazon, top 10 CPUs, 9 of them were AMD processors and Intel had just a single cpu in that.

AMD X370 Zen launch, Zen+ support vs Intel Z170/Z270 6th and 7th gen
AMD X470 Zen, Zen+, Zen 2 yet to be released vs Intel Z370/Z90 8th and 9th gen
AMD X570/B550 Zen+, Zen 2, Zen 3 vs Intel Z490/Z590 10th and 11th gen

AMD has 3 chipsets for basically 4 generations processors (upcoming 5th) while Intel had 6 chipsets for 6 CPUs with each EOLing by end of Tock refresh.

So Zen 3D on X470, X570, B550 vs ADL LGA1700 12th and 13th gen. So no one is going to ditch their current platform for the new DDR5 and expensive boards for a new Processor. Esp imagine folks from 8th gen era which is Zen+ X470, Ryzen 2000 series processors and they can get Zen 3D in 2021. Same for 8th gen and 9th gen Intel owners for gaming, the performance boost is not massive.

So the overall DIY marketshare was captured if you see that socket life, with Zen 3D refresh secured on AM4 and the ADL only able to beat the 2020 Zen 3 processors is not a big deal for me personally, single digit gains in gaming on avg of titles (most of the DIY is around gaming only). And Intel selling more small E cores on i9 vs i7 is even a big joke personally.

Then the DDR5 comes in the picture, many want the Top End boards - Hero range but all of them are DDR5 so they have to wait for benches, the benches out and DDR4 vs DDR5 is much less now people opt for mid range boards with DDR4 and i5 processors for gaming which will be the most of the userbase rest of them simply waiting for DDR5 kits. I think many will definitely think about longevity of the platform too. Rumors indicated Intel would support 3 processors this time but we didn't get any official note from Intel PR so unless the people who are gaming on 1080P resolution the ADL makes even less sense. Plus as a regular user (which most of the DIY is) they would not dabble in the start of DDR5 era and the whole AIO mounting brackets necessity as some of them won't even work properly.

Also Intel launched only high end boards a.k.a Z series and upto i5 only K SKUs since they want higher margins because AMD cannot ship the Zen 3D processors in 2021 as they are busy with Milan-X silicon bins, since Sapphire Rapids Xeon is also on the way, AMD wanted to push for maximum output of EPYC sales than mainstream AM4 (not needed since Intel sabotaged LGA1200 so all sales are AMD only) and Threadripper (wasting bins on HEDT where there's no competition is also worthless).

Side note -
Z690 is a massive upgrade for I/O so I think many folks are interested in that more than the CPU itself. But still Intel did one big mistake there, why make the PCIe5.0x16 lanes ? There's even more bifurcation shenanigans if you check the Z690 mobo options esp on ASUS Hyper M.2 card and DIMM.2 and PCIex4 slots (On EVGA Z690 Dark it's insane that they cut out x4 slot completely). Why not just give the damn DMI at PCIe5.0x8 Intel ? Current DMI of Z690 is 4.0x8, it's an upgrade from Z590 11th gen 3.0x8 but once all the NVMe drives are put in RAID the DMI will cap itself, so even in 2021 the DMI is limited on Mainstream. They are saving it for HEDT, makes sense as a business.

Also just for comparison vs 10900K in gaming.

 

Do y'all even lift? 25Ghz LOL

https://www.3dmark.com/fs/25836741

 

Nice setup. I love the CPU, and I love the Titan V as well!!


I almost bought a Titan V I researched them so much. I wanted to put a waterblock on one and overclock it to death.

 

Thanks I have two Titan V, two 3090, one 3070 and one 2080Ti.

I wish I can NVLink the Titan V, they are my favorite cards. Unfortunately only the Titan V CEO edition can and I have never found one yet.

Right now I'm running 10980XE + 3070. https://www.3dmark.com/fs/26587549. <WOW this one is 32Ghz! lol what is going on

Other GPUs are in my EVGA SR-2 rig with dual Xeons.

Spoiler

It's unfortunate I can't use mGPU in a benchmark with them all. Would be an interesting gpu score.

I was thinking of trading my brother my 3070 for his 2080Ti and buying an nvlink bridge to benchmark now that my CPU runs without throttling.

 

Very nice rig you have there.

3090 Kingpin too? Very nice.Those AIO hoses are just barely long enough lol.

 

I have 6 GPUs hooked up now to that rig and I am using riser cables to get them just outside the case. 4 GPUs sandwhiched was getting way too hot. 3090 KINGPIN & XC3 Hybrid.

Idk why I haven't bought an NVLink bridge for the 3090s yet lol

 

I wouldn’t mind another 3090 KP my self. But I didn’t have the best experience with my 2080Ti’s in SLI. They were so power hungry. I had them soldered and stacked shunts, and the bios flashed for higher power.

Running them with no OC would cause power shut downs at around 2,055Mhz boost each card.


They performed amazing though when it did work. It just took effort to make it work for each game.

 

Gotta say the GP76 has some power under the hood, after a shunt mod of course

 

Yeah shunt modding is required for almost any GPU.

The only reason my 3090 isn’t shunt modded is because it is a Kingpin. (First time in my
Life where I don’t need to solder my GPU lol)

One thing I recommend though, is never use liquid metal for it. I recommend soldering it instead. You’ll have a permanent long term mod. LM on shunts can change power % from day to day.

 

Tell all your friends and enemies as well.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...ter-block-evga-p3-1200w-psu-amd-5950x.837178/

 

So I'm doing some additional tuning right now on the 10900K in my laptop.

How does one find the best cores on the CPU? I'd like to dive into per core overclocking using Intel XTU.

 

I need some fast DDR5......

AMD'S Best vs Intel's/Nvidia's Best....coming soon.

 

Awesome. It will be great to see your results. Looking forward to it, Brother @Rage Set

That is a really great deal for everything that is included.

 

Yeah, I want to see the results as well. It would have been a bit more fair if I had the Z690 Dark as well but who knows when that is coming.

EDIT: Hopefully I can manage to get some of the better DDR5 kits 6400 to 6600.

@pathfindercod That is a deal and had I seen it before I went with the latest in Intel, I might have jumped. I do miss my 3090 KP card.

 

you can always send it back

 

Well, removing the M.2 NVMe SSDs wasn't working for Windows 7 on Z590. The only way I could get it to function properly was to disable the M.2 ports in the BIOS. After doing that my code 10 problems on PCI Express Root Ports #9 and #21 are gone. So, those are, in fact, the PCIe ports that directly relate to the M.2 slots and that explains why the NVMe drives are invisible to Windows 7.

Spoiler: Windows 7 Workarounds

The Redmond Mafia control freaks are going over the top in their effort to control what operating system consumers are allowed to use.

Kiss my wrinkled old man butt, Micro$lop.

Spoiler: Comparison of Bloat

All operating systems have been optimized with non-essential services disabled. Benchmark scores on Windows 10/11 Pro versions would be measurably worse than the examples shown in this comparison due to the ludicrous Windows UWP malware payload carried that is not present on LTSC versions of Windows 10 and Windows 7.
Windows 7 - 29 Processes @ idle - no applications running

Windows 10 LTSC 2019 - 94 Processes @ idle - no applications running

Windows 10 LTSC 2021 - 102 Processes @ idle - no applications running

Windows 10 Pro 20H2 - 112 Processes @ idle - no applications running

Windows 11 Pro for Workstations - 102 Processes @ idle - no applications running

Spoiler: Benchmark Screenshots

 

Was screwing around in the Rangers' BIOS, and I somehow managed to hit 102.35 as the BCLK, but then I got too greedy and went for 102.40, and it froze. I haven't been able to get anything above 102.00 since.

Was it just luck or could it have correlated with something I did? The only thing I did was increase the CPU voltage from -0.25mv from +0.25mv as running SuperPi32M would cause this thing to crash at around the 2 minute mark.

 

Increasing BCLK increases core clock, and doing that usually does require more voltage. So, give it more than 0.025V (25mV) and you might even get to 103 BCLK.

 

So it seems 5.4 GHz all core is the limit for my 10900K. I can't seem to push any higher no matter what voltage increase I apply. I think one of the cores is holding me back.

I tried the per-core overclocking option in Intel XTU, but it doesn't seem to do anything. Apparently Intel's Turbo Boost 3.0 is supposed to clock my favored cores higher, but I don't see that happening at all. Am I doing something wrong?

 

Well installing the 12700k in the server was uneventful (in a good way), just reinstalling all my apps/managing shares and such then I may play around with it a little bit. Did try some transcoding and it seems super responsive...

 

No, you're not doing anything wrong and that seems about right to me. Maybe even better than normal in a laptop.

You will generally be limited to 5.3-5.4GHz on a system using air or modest water cooling, and then with thermal throttling and overheating under heavy CPU loads. Chilled water will get you to 5.5GHz or so if it is a good silicon sample. Beyond 5.4-5.5GHz is where you start needing sub-zero cooling and 1.600V+ and I am not sure the VRM can handle that much. I suspect even 1.500V is probably putting a lot of stress on the X170's VRM. It doesn't have a ton of phases to work with due to limited space.

 

5.4 is pretty high and it depends on what levels of stability you're looking for at 5.4 and higher.

Usually you can post only higher than (boot to the desktop and validate)
you can run basic tasks higher than (desktop tasks, surfing, etc...)
you can run many games higher than (Lesser than BFV for example)
you can run lighter benchmarks higher than (CPU-Z level)
you can run heavier benchmarks higher than (CB23, CB20)
you can achieve true 100% stability (P95, Realbench stress, CB23 loops, CB20 loops, Aida64, Chess, etc..)

It depends on what you want to do and where your system gives up the ghost and is it worth the extra heat and pull to get it especially on a laptop.

My work area is cleaned up and laptops and everything put away as we start to clean and prepare to host for Thanksgiving but I still have plans to tweak it higher but CPU and mem because...well because because.

What clocks can you use to sustain a 10-20 minute CB23 loop with no thermal or power throttling? Single runs?
What level of stability do you have at 5.4 all clocks?

 

Thanks for this feedback. So essentially I'm already at the limit of the architecture itself. I suppose my expectations were too high. I really wanted to obtain 5.5 GHz.

Oh well. At least I got really close to my goal. In any case, this is still a massive upgrade over what I had before. The 10900K is worlds different in performance compared to either the 4930MX in my Alien or the 7700K in my desktop. But ya know, as an enthusiast, you just have to push things as far as they can go because it's fun to do so.

I haven't tried CB23, but with CB15, I can sustain 5.1 GHz all core indefinitely without any thermal throttling (with a 90mv undervolt). I can sustain 5.2 GHz with an 80mv undervolt for 3/4ths of an entire run before it starts thermal throttling, but I need to vent all the heat from the heatsink for about a minute before I can do that again. Anything higher is not something I can sustain in benchmarks.

In basic tasks and lightly threaded games, I can sustain 5.4 GHz indefinitely without any thermal throttling. To keep this speed stable, I have to apply a 25mv overvolt. In heavily threaded games that can effectively use more than 4 cores, the maximum speed I can sustain indefinitely without thermal throttling is 5.2 GHz.

I'm still happy with this result. 5.4 GHz offers me about a 25% increase in single core performance over my 7700K (since I can't overclock it, silly me for getting an H270M motherboard), so that gives me my 144 fps even in older games with crappy workload distribution. I was just hoping to reach for that 5.5 GHz, cause as I said earlier, as an enthusiast, you just have to push things as far as they can go because it's fun to do so.

Plus, I want to crank up my minecraft render distance as far as possible.

 

Considering you are using air cooling and a laptop, even maintaining 5.1GHz in Cinebench and 5.4GHz in "normal" tasks with 10 cores and 20 threads, that is a huge accomplishment that is very rare. All but unheard of in laptops and not common on an air-cooled desktop. If you were to tell me that you were not happy with those results, I would be suggesting that you seek professional counseling.

 

I never gave up trying to take this gold
https://hwbot.org/submission/485982...080p_core_i3_3120m_5.904_fps?recalculate=true


Improved also the HWBOT x265 - 4k results.
https://hwbot.org/submission/4859818_papusan_hwbot_x265_benchmark___4k_core_i3_3120m_1.395_fps

What more to say. All will have more. More and more

 

It is important to also remember that 32GB of dual rank memory with looser timings almost always outperforms 16GB of single rank memory with tighter timings. To get similar performance to the dual rank 32GB kit running 4000 CL16 you have to overclock the 16GB single rank kit to 4600 CL18.

An excellent benchmark that proves this is 3DMark 11 physics and combined tests. These tests in 3DMark 11 really shine and severely run the memory through the wringer. If your memory overclock cannot pass TM5 testing you'll get memory management BSOD failures with 3DMark 11. (You can fake it with newer GPU-focused benchmarks like 3DMark Port Royal and Fire Strike, but not 3DMark 11.)

I have to run a 16GB single rank memory kit at 4600 CL18 to match the performance (results) of a 32GB dual rank kit running at 4000 CL16. Even if I run the single rank 16GB kit at 4000 CL15 it loses every time to the 32GB dual rank kit.

Spoiler: Screenshots

32GB Dual Rank Samsung B-Die at 4000 CL16
16GB Single Rank Samsung B-Die at 4000 CL15
16GB Single Rank Samsung B-Die at 4600 CL18

 

This was interesting... Too bad the 11900K doesn't come apart that easy with so many SMDs getting in the way.

 

I might be returning the 12900K and Asus Z690 Extreme mobo. Apparently DDR5 is going to have very limited supply until January/February according to my reps.

 

Currently I haven't seen any real advantages to DDR5 when compared to a decent set of DDR4. I'm probably going to throw another 12700k in my desktop and reuse my ram. It'll be fun to get back into ram overclocking on Intel since my experience with AMD was pretty lackluster...

 

This is my 3090 Kingpin and my little 8 core 11900K. Making full use of the 2560x1440P 165HZ.

This is Battlefield 2042, so many say this game runs terribly, or it’s just unplayable. I am happy to report it runs very very very good!!!

DLSS= OFF, with Ultra graphics enabled at 2560x1440P.


While 5.4Ghz isn’t truly stable on an 11900K. It is easily 100% stable for gaming, which is primarily what my system is used for outside of work. And this 11900K is right at home here, pushing the life out of an overclocked 3090 Kingpin. It is really impressive what an 8 core cpu at 5.4 can do in this title.






I made this simple video to show that Battlefield 2042 is alive and well, and it doesn’t immediately need major updates or optimization, that almost every single person on the internet would lead you to believe. BF2042 doubled the player count to (128 players on a map) so it pushes the usual 12-15 threads like the prior Battlefield series, only now very heavily and constantly hammering. So many people saying it’s just pure unplayable. (Some saying it’s unplayable on even powerful high end PC hardware apparently)


I bought the game and it’s great so far though. Absolutely butter smooth, and very very fun. I figured some people may be a little leery before spending the $60 bucks on it. So as long as your PC is up to snuff you should be ok.

 

I finally got around to stuffing a fat 360 crossflow rad in the work computer and a second D5 pump. Working inside of a case is such a pain in the butt. Now that it's done I am fine with it. The extra junk just barely fits.

 

That looks great. I am considering running one of those filters you have. I was running Silver kill coil in my current water loop, and I didn’t realize that nickel reacted with silver. My optimus cold plate is nickel, which was why the cold plate was clogged upon inspection a few weeks ago. It literally looked as if something was burning it . My cold plate was turning black. I unclogged it, and scraped it clean again with a tiny needle. But I figured I’d just get a new one. Now I want a filter though. These cold plates are so restrictive to the point where it is pretty much a requirement. I’m still running the old cold plate, and it works great. And I did remove the solder coil. But, that’s actually what the dark matter in my 3090 Kingpin is. It’s tiny specs of burnt nickel coating coming off my Optimus cold plate.

 

Here is my new nickel cold plate. Also, I recommend removing the O-Ring it works so much better!!

Anyways, these fins are very very small!

 

Sounds about right. I left mine at pure stock with single core boosting since that is what WoW likes and with the tuning and clean up and UV it runs much quieter when gaming and basically makes no noise doing anything else that isn't intensive. Key thing is it is 100% rock solid. I hooked it up to my 4k display the other night while my desktop was in pieces and gamed for a few days straight for hours on end no problems at all. Just crisp, clean game play.

Just like my P870TM with the Prema magic, I will eventually get in there and find its true Vcore from 4.9->5.2+ and adjust that and the LL to get it running cool as possible even though it is already running cooler and better than my P870TM with the 9900ks at the same clock speeds. I may get a custom nickel BartX to shave off a few more degrees. I still need to get in there and run some max fan benchmarks and see where it caps out thermally.

I still have my eye on a KM if (or when?) Prema is released or if Prema enables 11th gen support on the SM.

Compared to your 7700k and especially 4930mx you must be like a kid in a candy store.

 

Thanks. I really like those filters. I have two of them on the bigger system with the MO-RA 360 and it is interesting how much trash they accumulate in the beginning. After cleaning them a couple of times there is not much left to catch in the filters. It was about every 30-60 days in the beginning, now it seems like about once every 4 to 6 months is adequate. I have a silver kill coil in one of the filters and I was seeing the same thing with the fins in the cold plate turning black. I guess I will remove it. Now that I am using automotive antifreeze I probably don't even need the silver kill coil.

How are you keeping it sealed? Is the machined fit so tight and perfect that is does not leak? The idea sounds kind of scary to me. What benefit have you seen from removing the o-ring? I'd feel compelled to watch it like a hawk to such an extent that the amount of worry I would have about a leak developing in time that it might diminish my pleasure in owning it.

 

Oh you betcha! I primarily used my Alien before I got my Desktop Killer, so the performance uplift is absolutely massive! The single core performance of my 10900K is about a 47% increase over the single core performance of my 4930MX according to my CB15 single core scores (Comet Lake CPU @5.4 GHz with score of 233 vs Haswell CPU @4.1 GHz with score of 159). It definitely feels that way as the 10900K had a massive positive impact in my everyday workloads and in games. The system feels so snappy! Multicore performance is even greater of an uplift for my productivity workloads. The 10900K is super effin' fast!!!!

This was an amazing upgrade since I skip so many generations before I get a new CPU. A CPU typically lasts me the entire useful lifetime of the machine (about 7-10 years for me). It's only GPUs that I upgrade often, which is why I really value upgradeability. I don't need to double spend on parts I effectively already have.

The RTX 2080 Super in this thing is also a massive upgrade over my GTX 1060 in my Alien. I now get my 144 fps in every game I play. This laptop is awesome and I love it!

The only thing about this laptop that wasn't awesome was the price, but in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't really matter. Happiness in life is what matters. I can't be super frugal all the time, or else I'll never be able to enjoy awesome things.

Also, turns out I don't need an overvolt at all for achieving 5.4 GHz all core on my 10900K. I was just trying to push the cache too high. I still can't get 5.5 GHz even on a single core though. Overclocking my favored cores higher than the others using per core overclocking doesn't seem to do anything either.

 

All really good comments and observations. Yes, 10900K is a killer CPU and you have a killer laptop.

It seems you have an above average silicon sample, too. I do believe the 5.5GHz overclock might be more than the motherboard can handle effectively. But, there are also lots of water cooled desktops that run a 10900K that can't handle even 5.4GHz. So, that should not be a point of discouragement.

 

That makes sense. I did notice that if the CPU core voltage ever went over 1.5v (which my 5.5 GHz overclock seemed to require), the system would immediately freeze, then I'd get a BSOD. I'm guessing that the firmware has a hard cap on the CPU voltage, and it won't let that exceed 1.5v.

How high can one typically push the cache on the 10900K? It seems my limit is 4.7 GHz. I know core frequency matters much more, I'm just used to being able to run the core and cache at the same speed. Having them run at different speeds looks weird to me.

 

I generally run my cache 3 or 4 bins less than the core for benching (54x core, 50x cache). For normal everyday use, 4 or 5 bins lower (53x core, 48x cache).

Since core and cache voltage are linked, the voltage you are setting might be adequate for the CPU core, but too low for the cache to go higher than 47x.

 

The waterblock has two o-rings. The outer o-ring to seal the cold plate to the waterblock. And it has an inner o-ring for the inlet outlet. However, this inner o-ring reduces flow even further. Optimus said it’s ok to run with or without it. I remember another guy who ran without it, there is another 2C-3C to be gained on the really hot max temps after removing the o-ring.


This is a photo when I first took the block apart to clean it. You can see where the center o-ring resides at. I noticed an improvement in temps once I removed it.

You can Google and find a little more in-depth testing on it as well.








You can also see where the silver kill coil is stripping the nickel off of the cold plate.

 

With the slower SO-DIMMs we have in laptops you won't benefit much in performance from highest possible cashe ratio.

Also if you look on the bot for different Cpu's you won't see many bump up the Cashe near Core clock speed to squeeze out last drop. A too hard task, both for the chips and the cooling.

@Rage Set Here's DDR5 status.

"If you plan to upgrade to Alder Lake, you currently have two options. One is to just wait this DDR5 shortage out. Alternatively, you can opt for a Z690 motherboard with DDR4 memory slots. The bad news is that motherboard brands are currently only offering DDR4 support on the lower tier models"

Scalpers Flip DDR5 RAM on eBay for Up to $2,500

 

Yeah got to love them stinking scalpers. The thing more disturbing about that to me is the idea that there will be idiots dumb enough to pay that much for their DDR5 memory modules.

 

Yeah, that fits what I was told about Jan/Feb being a bit better for supply. I am not going to sit on the motherboard for that long. It is going back to Newegg but I've decided to keep the CPU. I wouldn't mind the Z690 Dark even though I need/require 10G LAN on all of my mobos.

 

EVGA CLC Intel LGA1700 Retention Kit aviable now
https://eu.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=M022-10-000178