*Official* NBR Desktop Overclocker's Lounge [laptop owners welcome, too]

I really couldnt have said any of it better! +Rep when I can, since I give it to you on a regular basis

Also when building an 18 core desktop, c-states or power saving is usually the last thing on your mind.

 

With c-states enabled, same BIOS settings are about 205-210W at idle, about 215W with the Chrome browser open as I reply to this message... about 275-280W streaming a YouTube video.

 

That is very interesting information. I would love to see more about it.

 

Ha, ok! (C-states enabled will still let you see that static fixed clock speed that you like, as long as you use the Windows High Performance Plan, just parts of CPU go to sleep & voltage lowers)

 

That's cool (hadn't seen your message before my reply above), so you're shaving off about 100W of pure CPU power under the minimal usage of web browsing by using C-states. Might help maintain 5.1Ghz in the summer months, but during gaming you'll be using the CPU more, so you're unlikely to get 100W of CPU power savings when gaming, maybe you'll get 50W power saving as a rough guess - whether that translates into 5.1 Ghz being doable during Summer I don't know. Ha, and you'd have to overcome some of your hate of power savings options before even thinking about testing that!

 

Not sure if more Mhz is what is needed to "...beat the clevo p870tm once and for all..."
This is a P870DM3 (2016 model) at 5Ghz:

https://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/18982338/fs/18965496#

 

They go buy gpu scores only for some reason.

 

How come you achieved a sizable lead in CPU Physics when your multiplier is at 50x while iunlock's is 52x?
How will Clevo's fare against A51M with crippled BIOS?

 

Your last sentence answers that question. Firmware that works right ( @Prema) versus firmware that does not (Dell/Alienware). But, Azor or his sidekick Umar would have you believe that it works "as intended" LOL. The question is, intended by whom?

All laptops suck without a Redeemer to deliver them from firmware hell.

 

I answered my own question! Hahaa.. But I was waiting for some raw benching numbers from Prema.
I vowed never to buy a gaming crippletop again and get only refurb or new business grade laptops and desktop for gaming or productivity.

 

I keep telling everyone in the Area-51m thread that the CPU needs VR Current limit increased. They don't realize their scores are lower than usual.

This is why I haven't done much over 5Ghz. After 5Ghz it just hits VR Current limit (for me at least, maybe better binned CPUs will go higher).

My P870DM3 beats my Area-51m easily in overall and GPU score

https://www.3dmark.com/fs/13488894

 

EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti KINGPIN Out Techpowerup.com | April 8, 2019

 

Youve got to be kidding with that price!!! Almost $2000 for a freaken video card? Thanks, but no thanks.

 

Sadly, it seems you have to pay an extra for an RTX card that actually runs right and has enough voltage to behave like an enthusiast product. Everyone chatters about power limit, but the talking heads don't realize that higher power limits can't do jack for a GPU castrated with a wuss-boy panty-waist voltage limit of 1.093V. That makes about as much sense as believing that having a larger fuel tank will improve your gas mileage and increase horsepower.

 

Can't find anything higher than those two:

https://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/18936854/fs/18695235

 

Can't you have two for Sli with Turing? Only $4000

 

I'm buying one...just one. Getting the GPU block is going to be extremely difficult though.

EDIT: These are supposed to be a limited run.

 

I half expected you to buy one, maybe I can be your bastard hardware child.

 

Right. Mine is the highest at the moment. Haven't really put it back to the test after I beat Rocktaze a while back.

Edit:

I'm trying to get me one of those Kingpins as well.

 

Let me know. They allow me to buy two.

EDIT: Actually, you are likely part of the "EVGA Associate Club" as well since you have K|NGP|Ns.


Andddddd sold out....hahaha

 

I totally slept on paying attention. Now I have to sit back and watch like a hawk!

@Rage Set Did you buy two?

 

I'm sure some will turn up on eBay in a few weeks with a significant markup

 

No, I hesitated buying even one when I saw your post. Waited 15 minutes and proceeded to go through the transaction, got a nice little message it was sold out. I am hoping they release the Hydro Copper version, as that is the one I really want.

 

No doubt, but wouldn't make any sense to buy one off eBay until the EOL. While these cards are going to be limited, it's not like EVGA isn't going to make a few batches.

 

Ah, so I see.

Yes, the copper version would be nice to have if it should come out.

 

Yes it will be and if it is like the 1080 TI K|NGP|N version, they are only making one batch.

 

That's true. It's not all about the MHz, rather efficiency and the A51M lacks in that department with physics, however, I'm working on trying to make the best of what it can do so we shall see...

I'm not sure how that can be true when the entire score and links are posted showing all of the different scores with overall, graphics, physics and combined.

They? - It's a bit contradicting when you emphasize "they," as if you don't emphasize the graphics score? -- lol

Your reply below " Right. Mine is the highest at the moment. Haven't really put it back to the test after I beat Rocktaze a while back."...

To be fair, it's always about you, mine, I beat, mine is, I, I, I etc...

Perhaps you're not seeing the simple fact that 30771 - 30737 = only 34. That's not remotely close to a victory to celebrate over given the circumstances of the two systems being compared here.

That's nothing to sneeze at and I'm sure everyone in here realizes all the factors of the A51M vs the more privileged P870TM. Simple facts. The overall score isn't far as well and still climbing...

The A51M is still young...there is still more in this system.

It's clear what system is the underdog here... that is what makes it that much more fun and enjoyable to see how far it can go.

This is all suppose to be for fun... why so serious?

That's because the clevo is a lot more efficient in the cpu department as expected with it being unlocked. Real world difference, both running at 50x for gaming etc? Zero.... for benching? It depends, but higher doesn't always mean better as you see from the chart. - Also, temperature has a lot to do with how efficient the cpu can run and I suspect that the run you're seeing in that chart was under a nice chilled environment.

Right now this A51M are in the 27K's for physics, but I'm hoping to get it into the mid to upper 27K's ... we shall see...

Amen to that. I think it's insanity to lock people out of something that they have purchased... It's no different than putting a peg under the gas petal of a sports car... I just don't get it. -- It would be great to someday see some Prema magic on this system, but I'm aware of the limitations that may keep that wish a glamorous hope. )

Yea haha all good. The truth is that one can get their gaming fix in from even a lower end gaming laptop if they truly need the portability. Otherwise, building a nice desktop for a lot less is the way to go and to get a beater laptop for web/email tasks...

That's true and we'll see if that ever happens. Hopefully. The increases in physics by turning up the clocks isn't going to yield 1:1 of that of a desktop or the clevo p870tm, but it does help some in this particular case in its current state.

Nice score.

Absolutely and spot on... I've always wondered the same thing in why a lot of people put so much emphasis on the power limits in the other forums when they can't even get past the stock voltage to run efficiently. -- I've seen more talk about their gpu's crashing and being unstable when trying to over volt, vs anything that brought about positive returns...

It's pretty impressive to see dtr's pulling these kind of numbers. I'll get back to testing the A51M as soon as I finish up some stuff on my desktop. There's more in this thing I know it...

Doh I missed it too... They are limited for sure... High highly anticipated world wide...

Almost have to have lightening fingers, because right when I pressed order it timed out and sure enough.. sold out... Oh well...

I hope that they are releasing these in increments... fingers crossed...

.

 

The "normal" K|NGP|N 2080 TI will likely get a couple more batches, no doubt on that. However, EVGA makes the Hydro Copper version a very limited edition. For example, they literally only made about a few dozen of the K|NGP|N Hydro Copper 1080 TI's and only a handful of the blocks standalone. Like John and yourself, I will be keeping watch. These are going to be the 2080 TI's to own this generation.

EDIT: I have already informed my clients that both of my EVGA 2080 TI's are up for sale for cheap. They'll be sold shortly.

 

Ah yes the Hydro Copper... Ideally that is what I'd like as well (I'm running the Hydro Copper 2080Ti's at the moment), but I'd be happy just to land the current one if it comes available again.

Do you have a link to your 2080Ti's?

 

That's right, you need more voltage for more clocks! What's the max allowable voltage of the Kingpin card then? 1.25V? (I only say that because MSI Afterburner curve shows 'all' NVidia GPUs going up to 1.25V on the x-axis, even if it can't be used.)

 

Wow that KINGPIN costs almost as much as a RTX Titan LOL. Kinda wanna play with one in the Graphics AMP with my A51m.

Oh there's definitely more in the system left. I just can't have as much time playing with it atm because of school. I'm also waiting to do some thermal girzzly carbonaut on mine to help temps. Then I'll be able to bench higher. Right now Dell's stock paste is horrible , hitting 100C without an undervolt. -100mV undervolt stays in the 80s.

EVGA will probably have updated Precision to support higher voltages for this card if they did push it further.

 

I hadn't heard of carbonaut, I thought it was a typo or you were being funny or something! But I found this when I googled it:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/thermal-grizzly-carbonaut.827098/
Liquid metal is better though no?

EDIT: yeah, it's up against mid range thermal compounds supposedly according to the makers, so it's not as good liquid metal assuming the surfaces mate well.
https://www.thermal-grizzly.com/en/products/299-carbonaut-en

 

Yea it's pricey for sure. Expensive hobby haha... and yea that would be neat to throw one in an amp, but ideally this card is made for the Nürburgring.

I'm so glad they went with Samsung memory...expected no less, but just really glad there's no micron... I wish our 2080Ti's had Samsung and not micron...

As for the stock paste yea it's very mediocre for sure. I haven't LM'ed mine yet since I'm swapping in/out CPU's, but I surely will before I publish the in depth review.

Hope you carve some time to get to your system! I've been busy as well juggling between the desktop, A51M and test bench... only if there was more time in a day.

 

Saw this on twitter @Johnksss @Mr. Fox @Rage Set @Robbo99999 @iunlock

That voltage doe

Laptop heatsinks have bad fitment or balancing issues. Carbonaut won't perform as well as LM, but if it can fix that HS issue, it'll actually technically do better than LM since LM requires good HS fitment.

It's kinda weird. Performance is less than LM. But in a laptop HS environment, it has the potential to perform better.

That's why I want to test it. It should perform better than stock regardless, and no need to reapply, it can be used over and over.

 

Wow, ok, it's operating at 1.405V there! That should be more than enough for anyone overclocking on water.

Yep, I see what you mean about the poor fitment and it's effects re carbonaut - if you test it let us know how it goes.

 

i might be interpreting that image in a wrong way, but isnt that the memory voltage? with the gpu core voltage at a meager 833 mV?

Sent from my Xiaomi Mi Max 2 (Oxygen) using Tapatalk

 

Yeah, you're right I think! Well that image doesn't show us anything then about what the max core voltage is.

 

QUOTE="iunlock, post: 10893667, member: 666116"]
I'm not sure how that can be true when the entire score and links are posted showing all of the different scores with overall, graphics, physics and combined.
Yes, but that was not what you were talking about. It was mine, i, me GPU score beating an unlocked Clevo. Not your overall score. Which is the only score that matters.

They? - It's a bit contradicting when you emphasize "they," as if you don't emphasize the graphics score? -- lol

That's what i'm getting at. I should not have even had to bring up a gpu score since it's the over all score that wins. And I did not start that.

Your reply below " Right. Mine is the highest at the moment. Haven't really put it back to the test after I beat Rocktaze a while back."...

Again. I did not start this and though I would play along. Normally I don't even write stuff when I post benchmarks. Just the "correct" screen shots and that's it.

To be fair, it's always about you, mine, I beat, mine is, I, I, I etc...
Yeah, no. if that were the case I would have a bunch of benchmark records and first listed in my sig. I do not. it's not that serious.

Perhaps you're not seeing the simple fact that 30771 - 30737 = only 34. That's not remotely close to a victory to celebrate over given the circumstances of the two systems being compared here.
No, it's quite the opposite. Remember, a Clevo Is 150W and playing catch up. not the other way around.

That's nothing to sneeze at and I'm sure everyone in here realizes all the factors of the A51M vs the more privileged P870TM. Simple facts. The overall score isn't far as well and still climbing...
How can we forget. it's posted 10 times a day. No matter how you stack it up, it hasn't won yet. That's what I'm getting at. Until that happens. It's not the fastest. It was given it's "prop's for the condition it's in", but I refuses to keep harping on it in every thread. Everyone knows this. I'm just not part of the I feel sorry because you don't have full control group. You seem to forget. Clevos come locked. just like Alienware does. That goes for all alienwares before it. We unlocked the earlier versions which made them the kings they were.

The A51M is still young...there is still more in this system.

I personally never said anything against it, but yet you guys keep going on and on about how it's locked down this and that. Well it's not that locked down. if it were XTU and TS would be locked out completely. And those programs are what help the A51M excel past what Dell imposed.

It's clear what system is the underdog here... that is what makes it that much more fun and enjoyable to see how far it can go.

Why do we need to keep bringing this up (underdog)? Everyone surely know exactly where it sits? Let your benchmarks do the talking.

This is all suppose to be for fun... why so serious?

.[/QUOTE

Yes, it's suppose to be fun, but all the fun underdog talk every other post make it seem like it's more personal than fun.
I already told you if I had one, I would be trying my damndest to beat my Clevo. Pulling out all stops to do so. Just like we did when we owned previous Alienwares. That should have said allot, but yet it didn't. You keep trying to classify me in this I hate Alienware class with is pretty silly. I do not hate them as stated many time over. I just do not have one to fully put through the motions and to see what else can be done outside normal channels....

 

You should definitely come to India and run A51M at 50x and end result will be... A51M will be on death-bed and breathing its last because ambients temp are at low 50C's . You will see magical 105C cpu and gpu temps at 50x. Dell even advertised 5GHz 24x7 on all cores in India's website when it finds hard to perform at 45x w/o thermal throttling.

 

Yeah, wow, 50 degC! I really don't know how laptops or even performance desktops can be designed to cope with that - it's almost like hardware would need some kind of "certified for India" stamp on it to say it can function properly in those conditions! It's a 30 degC handicap - what would have been a cool 60 degC becomes probably 90 degC & over (in addition due to greater power consumption as silicon heats up which makes the temperatures even worse)!

 

Dell documents/spec sheet says max is 30C and beyond that is out of warranty spec. You can ask @msri15603 who got 7820HK and 1080 MQ for 6k and dell didn't even bother to give a quick turnaround replacement and I think he has disabled stock multipliers and switched to 38x on all cores to stop thermal throttling.
Back in 2015/2016, when I got my AW Jokebook 15" Indian version has max HQ locked CPU and 980M as standard on all models and HK was absent because of our high ambient temps. Now, all they need is money and advertise 6GHz or even 10GHz and slap $10-30k MRP and that gets sold like hotcakes and barely perform better than yesterday AWs.

 

I couldn't even maintain those multipliers for more than a week since my paste dried out anyway! I was stuck with 35x low 90C on CPU and 75C on gpu under full load

 

You're running at 6700HQ clocks? I think the heatsink and pads are the issue.

 

Wow so BLUE. -- First off thanks for replying and keeping it civil. I just wanted to point out a few things to make things clear.

Mentioning the current state of the A51M is a reality, not an opinion. It is also mentioned as a reminder to those who have doubted the system before it was even released. --- It is also mentioned because clearly it seems to be forgotten based on the replies that try to ignore the facts, while catering to shining light on a "not so much of a victory," of the p870tm scores compared to what the A51M is achieving currently.

The remark about the clevo having 150w goes both ways. In one way it comes to show that even with a lower power limit, that it can achieve respectable performance. On the other hand it contradicts the fact that some are flashing the AW 200w vbios to achieve greater performance than what their clevo is currently able to do... So in that regard, the power limit really is irrelevant to prove anything.

As far as another set of reality, I can bet you all the chips that if you were to display both systems and took a toll that the majority would choose the A51M even at its current state for more than several reasons... The difference in the benchmarks brings ZERO difference to the end user and that is a fact. In that regard with all things considered and with the performance the A51M has shown so far, in ratio, YES it has already beat the clevo p870tm and I can bet you (friendly bet) that if you offered both systems to 100 people who actually game, content create and heck even moderately bench, that more than 95%+ would choose the A51M.

So is the A51M a better system overall? IMO hands down yes. Is the clevo p870tm the best system for you? In your opinion maybe hands down yes too... either way, it boils down to ones preference. I'm just pretty sure that the majority would prefer the A51M in a heart beat, while realizing that it is literally on par with the clevo p870tm.

Let the benchmarks do the talking? I think it already has. To be fair, I think you're forgetting that the A51M has brought a lot of surprises that a lot us didn't expect and it seems that this reality is being attacked due to denial.

Nothing is personal here, rather I was the one starting to see a trend of you making mention of me, me, me, my, my, my, I beat this, I beat that, and trying to make it seem like a few points means everything, when it does not. etc.... and started to wonder if in fact you were taking all of this personal? -- I was asking myself, if that was the case...why? For what? Gosh I hope not and if you are, I apologize for whatever may have triggered that.

Just know that there are zero intentions here other than to share with the community of enthusiasts, that's all. --- Yes this is all for fun and for the love of the sport... some people just don't seem to get that and think that gaining some points that mean nothing in the real world is everything? That doesn't prove anything.

As I've mentioned before, anyone can bench and upload to a site. It's not that hard. Really. Points are points and if you bench enough with varies hardware, it'll all start to add up just purely based on a numbers game. As much as we appreciate and enjoy benching, it doesn't mean everything. What is respected is the dedication of the driver putting the time into it, not the badge of honor he or she places upon themselves to be recognized for.

Overall, it's important to remain humble and absent of the arrogance, because that yields no profit what so ever. I hope that I've clarified things enough to where there is no more confusion. I'm not classifying you as anything so just thinking that is in fact pretty silly, because it's not true.

I've said this once and I'll say it again... As an enthusiast I do what I do because I love this sport and enjoy this stuff very much, all the while I stay in my lane. Nothing more, nothing less unless I specify the reasoning or intent. Ex. Simply proving that a piece of hardware can do what it said that it can not do. That's called fun.

.

 

That's called "Law of Common Sense," my friend. Of course with an ambient of 50C's ANY hardware would be gasping for air... I know what it's like to live in hot places, trust me... worst yet, humid hot places.

Any system in that harsh environment would suffer... (Place your favorite system name here:__________________) = Sorry it will suffer. 50C is nuts...

I vaguely remember the amendments that Dell made, that was pretty crazy.

If you don't have AC in the room that you're gaming etc... and if the ambient is 50C's you're pretty much out of luck, no matter how good of a cooling you have on your hardware.

 

No AC. I just put my wet clothes on the clothesline and it gets dried and my room temps get reduced by 10C. Either way, a win-win situation. In the future, I'll have to transform to my human primal form with just leaves as clothes.

 

I am now on the 17 r5 at 4ghz check the owner's lounge for my latest post, I have posted all info there

 

Oh wow that's tough. Props to you mate for enduring that and making the best of it.

 

My dad's room has AC though we turn it ON during night time only. Usually it takes a small spike in power usage to trip out all electricity in the area because none of them use high end equipment on daily basis, so I've my ways for optimal power usage that can get around the power-cuts. Haha...

 

Somewhat outdated. Dell's new specs. Temperature range 0°C to 40°C (32°F to 104°F) for Area-51m and 0°C to 35°C (32°F to 95°F) for the BGA models.

I expect a lots of teens still want that Alienware Scull Flashing lights as you know is tempting for some. And probably some that still hope Alienware deliver same quality as in the old days. Not all is sun and shiny https://www.reddit.com/r/Alienware/comments/ayl9aq/disappointment_with_customer_care_and_quality/

Quality or a better overall system as you know is much more than a metal chassis and blinking lights I know beacause I have both systems. And I know very well whitch of the systems needed repair. Not one but several times. Oh'well.