Let's figure out how to convert internal MXM connector an external PCI-E x16 box

i c. It seem i was confusing myself before this. Thanks for clearing this up. I think i see you point now. So what you suggest is using the external pcie cabling instead. I guess without those spec from pcisig it is going to be hard. Well lets hope someones find and post those spec for us

 

so as you can see here:
http://www.acesconn.com/nw/p2b.aspx?pro_family=sqxd5@aar0few4MXM&&pro_type=sqxd5@aar0few4Card Conn
that there are at least 27 types of mxm slots...

so let's try to do something here... I ask to anyone to post links to resources that we may use in this project.

http://www.mxm-sig.org/main.cfm?action=suppliers
http://www.tripod-tech.com/english/main2-4-5.asp

This is not much... but it's something. some mxm 3.0 specs:
http://www.mxm-upgrade.com/MXM_Connector_Specsheet.bmp

it may be possible using a docking station interface. for example this one from Dell:
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/...ku=310-1651&~lt=popup&~ck=ManRelated#Overview
even has 2pci slots. anyway just another idea.

expresscard 1.0 to quad crossfire/SLI: http://www.cooldrives.com/exca3topcexe.html

many pci-e expansion options:
http://www.hacker-technology.com/32935/index.html

pci-e 16x to pci-e 16x raiser cable:
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/2...1_PCI_E_slot_adapter_with_flexible_cable.html

ATI XGP cable connector (it's made by JAE electronics and it's pci-e 8x, it has a special connector. Also note that AMD XGP only works with mobile graphic cards and not desktop ones, at least for now):
http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7862&Itemid=1

more about ATI XGP:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/mobile...ance_with_External_Graphics_Accelerators.html

PCI-e expantion cable form lucidlogix: http://www.lucidlogix.com/product-adventure2000.html


the precious...


source and a few schematics...
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1047007/pci-sig-approves-external-cabling-spec

 

Hi all,

I've found this thread just today, it's very interesting and challenging and I'd like to contribute to it.

Unfortunatelly, the MXM spec links provided by toshiki in his first post are not working, can somebody repost them? It's very important.

__-_-_-__ is right, if there are incompatibilities between 1.1, 1.3, 2.0, 2.1 and 3.0 standards, we need to design different versions for each of them.
As far as I know, the differences between types (I, II, etc) are related to power and cooling requirements, size and other stuff. This would not matter for the project, because all we need is getting the PCIe signals to a discrete grapics card. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I'd like to bring a note related to passing the DVI data back from the graphics card to the laptop's LCD display.

What we've got is a fixed resolution display, and the discrete graphics card's resolution varies in a wide range from boot to the desktop screen.
So we need more than a pair of de-serialization / serialization chips, a scaler solution is required to match the card's output to the laptop's resolution.

Solutions:
1. find a chip that does this, and configure it for the laptop's screen, such as ADE3800 from ST

2. use a DVI to LVDS converter board such as those used in LCD monitors.

Either way, it's not an easy feat to implement, but still doable.

Can anyone provide links to the MXM specs again?
Thank you!

 

ceteras,

You're correct in saying that the differences in MXM standards do not matter in most cases. The key is to only use PCI-E lane, clock and control wires, which have the same location on the slot regardless of the MXM version.
The only thing that would matter is the physical connector difference between MXM 2.X and MXM 3.X.

LVDS doesn't need to be set to a particular laptop LCD as laptop's motherboard does that. It converts MXM standard 24 bit dual channel full hd capable LVDS output to the one needed by the particular LCD panel.

Updated links:
http://stashbox.org/679919/MXM_Electro_Spec.pdf
http://stashbox.org/679923/MXM_Software_Spec.pdf

 

Hi toshiki,

Thank you for the files and for the clarification.
I'll get back after I read the docs.

 

The best design for this project would something similar to a laptop cooler, only it will be a little thicker. See here.

It allows shorter cables and comfortable gaming.

I made a sketch of how I see it done (see attachment).

So, these are my recommendations:
1. for the MXM module, a pcb is needed to fit in the MXM slot. This will route the PCIE signals to a connector on it. If possible, the connector should reach out through one of the the removable covers underneath the laptop.

2. on that connector, a twisted-pairs cable is needed (similar to SCSI 160 cable)

3. you need a box of the same width/lenght as the laptop, and enough height to fit the adapter horizontally.

4. in this box, another PCB should house the PCIe connector riser, power supply for the graphics adapter and SiI861 or similar LVDS chip.

5. on this box you can place a connector that matches the one described at (1.), or you can use the twisted-pair cable. If a matching connector can be setup, you would have a sort of "docking station" for your laptop's graphics.

6. the box would be powered by the laptop's brick, and then it will power the laptop. care should be taken considering the power requirements of the whole setup, it might need a higher-rated brick.




That's what it should look like. But first someone has to make some tests, to make sure it would technically be possible.

Unfortunately, my laptops has no MXM module, so I can't start the experiments. I'll try to get a laptop mainboard from a friend who has a laptops repair shop.

My approach to testing would be to use a defective MXM module.
Strip it out of all components on it and clean it thoroughly.
Then wire all needed PCIe signals to a PCIe connector taken fom a defective mainboard.
Use a small cheap video adapter, this would also simplify the power requirements aspects.
See if it works on an external display.

That would be the first step. The next big step is getting LVDS signals back to the MXM module. This can be done using some cheap LCD monitor with DVI inputs. They all have a board inside that provides LVDS signals to the monitors TFT panel.
So, I'd counnect the display's electronics to the LVDS inputs on the MXM module, expecting to see the results on the laptop's display.

I expect this to be a little trickier than it seems. I've had a lot to deal with LVDS and TFT panels and I know why.

 

ceteras,

SiI861 only supports resolutions up to 1400x1050 - no good here.
You want to get a cheap Full HD LCD monitor and gut it.
In any case, the exact type of MXM's standard LVDS output should be understood before making any purchases. All I can say is that it is 24 bit, Dual Channel and capable of Full HD or possibly higher.
The pinout for MXM's LVDS is known from the specs so you want to possibly get in contact with someone like www.earthlcd.com to make sure the conversion board is going to do the right thing.

As far as the PCI-E side is concenrned - a capable laptop tech should take care of that. This extender from ebay should save a lot of time. I have a suspicion that it is only wired at x8, which doesn't matter anyway.
Just be careful with the power wires within MXM slot. I would initially use a video card with external power connector and power it up from desktop PSU. That way all the power sources are kept separate and uncomplicated.

One of the members here got in contact with the place that makes the extender:
Apparently, they sell by the box only.

 

Here are two newer DVI Receivers:
http://www.siliconimage.com/products/product.aspx?pid=50
http://www.siliconimage.com/products/product.aspx?pid=11

I would be careful with that eBay cable seller, he is trying to get the transaction off eBay with a small discount. Most of the price is hidden in the shipping and if the cable is defective you may loose the inflated shipping charge.

 

Here are a couple of interesting pictures of MSI Geminium Go - SLI MXM to desktop PCI-E x16 conversion board:

http://stashbox.org/684750/go-scan-front.jpg (0.8 MB)
http://stashbox.org/684752/go-scan-back.jpg (0.8 MB)

This gives an idea of what's involved in making an adapter.
Each MXM card is wired at x8 and joined in SLI.
One side of the card is dedicated to power. The other side deals with external video signal output in a variety of formats including LVDS(long narrow hole in the card) with only one MXM slot is being used for it.

The part that is interesting is in the middle where straight-through tracks connect desktop PCI-E lanes to MXM's lanes - no resistors/capacitors/conversion chips on the way. SLI adds complexity in wiring clock and control wires which does not exist in our case.

 

Kontron's LCD controller boards seem to be the most popular ones with LVDS connnectors.
CRTtoLCD-7 is good up to WUXGA and
CRTtoLCD-6 is good up to UXGA.

Approximate pricing for these boards can be found here:
http://www.wdlsystems.com/modperl/view_services.cgi?r=list_aisle.plate&aisle_id=900

Kontron's manuals state that it is possible to add support for "invalid" display resolution modes(i.e. WXGA, which is not supported by default) using a so called "Kontron Configuration WorkBench" tool(reprogram eeprom via COM port).

 

I just ordered some parts from www.wdlsystems.com these days myself

A few more links that may be useful:
http://www.hkinventory.com/ -- for inventory search
http://www.xytera.com/ -- component distributor
http://www.pacificgeek.com -- clearance components inventory/distribution

 

On the following product list there you can find the HWTools planned MXM to PCI-Express convertor/adapter, named MX1:
http://www.redtron.com/PDF/RD_list.pdf

 

mmarchid,

MX1 was one of the first things I had to filter out - it converts the other way around - we need the opposite.

Edit: I talked with HWTools about making "MX2", to which Gerry said that there might be BIOS issues and he didn't want to risk. It sounded as though he was busy with other things...

 

Though I dunno much about it... there's an asus trinity prototype. it works with 3 mxm ati 3850. but I was unable to find good pics..
http://hothardware.com/News/Asus_Trinity_TriGPU_Graphics_Prototype_Benched/

there's also these mxm expation boards (several brands)
http://www.acesuppliers.com/Supplie...-Extension-Module_Product_Showroom_47747.html

what a fool... if they could make one they would win so much money... oh well.. I wish I had money to invest in this business. I wouldn't look back.

 

There are ton of pictures with ASUS HD 3850 Trinity. There is also a scaled down version ASUS Splendid MA3850M but as much as I looked for any of them they are not in any inventory.The only trace of ASUS Splendid I found was on a NZ auction site where a girl sold it after winning it at a lottery.

I have already bought this adapter but I still need some parts to see if it works. It will get very expensive though.

 

I known there are tons of pictures. I just didn't found a good one with the whole pcb both sides without mxm cards.

anyway I don't see how this can help... because we need the opposite... ok some soldering and such... but I don't understand much of electronics.

imo this is a very hard thing for a single person to achieve even with the whole knowledge.
So I think the best way to solve this is to ask HWTools to make one. They sure have all the components, the known-how and technology. Maybe a petition or something like that?
I'm sure that BIOS problems will only happen in some models. So they would always sell lot's of adapters... it would be very profitable for them.
They are missing an opportunity to make tons of money.
I think if they understand this they will make one.

 

Perhaps this is slightly off-topic, but to me, this shows that it's doable:

http://extreme.pcgameshardware.de/a...-mobility-radeon-hd4000-89sba_ceatec01_11.jpg
http://extreme.pcgameshardware.de/a...-mobility-radeon-hd4000-78abs_ceatec01_10.jpg

In the pictures, you'll se a laptop development motherboard, with a MXM to PCIe adapter.
They plug an PCIe to MXM adapter in it's PCIe slot, I think they can't plug the MXM module directly onto the dev motherboard due to thermal and power requirements.

 

Another interesting image: http://www.pcidv.cn/upfile/usb2pcie.jpg

It says usb2pcie, but those cables are not USB, they are PCIe cables.

 

If 8x would be enough, this device could reduce the amount of necessary work:
DNPCIe_CBL Upstream

http://www.dinigroup.com/product/data/DNPCIe_CBL/images/dnpcie_cbl_upstream.jpg

You have a PCIe connector, ATX connector for power, and two connectors for PCIe 4x cables.

All you need now is a MXM shaped module with connectors for PCIe cables.

 

The big advantages of this project is that we have full performace of desktop video cards and able to use laptop's lcd. It's somewhat mobilty unlike the DIY vidock you gotta stick with external monitors and bandwidth limit performace.
I hope someone can point out the list of parts to try out and where to buy, seem like we lack of a mxm shaped module with connectors for PCIe cable.
probably i put $150 for parts to try my own and don't care if ending up for nothing.

 

This would be great for using with an HP Touchsmart 300z. They are MXM 3.0 equipped but US models are not customizable via the HP website nor retailed with dedicated graphics (their are foreign versions with dedicated though!) which is stupid as hell. This is a great way of circumvention assuming you don't care about a possibly ugly as hell set up.

 

This might help getting someone interrested?

 

Yay m17x with 2 8x mxm slots and a intergrated 9400m


Now bring on the real 5970's

and just wanna saw good luck and thanks for anyone helping

 

Hi guys I am interested in helping particularly in developing product creation and marketing and product demand.

Just how much would all these bits cost?
Has it been tested and proven to work like the DIY Vidock?

I really like the images g60 force - As an external product design could we consider the external design of a tough drive. These are highly durable mobile hard drives that can survive a fall of 2 metres. What is nice here is the silicon touch. I have one of these are they feel good and look good.


http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/3144/00014653.jpg

For deeper inquiries look @

http://www.freecom.com/ecproduct_detail.asp?ID=3051&CatID=8020&sCatID=1146187&ssCatID=1146191

The overall sales idea of what is needed would be to get something the durability, dimensions and looks of a tough drive but instead of the existing external memory solutions provided by tough drive of up to 500gb:
Sell external video card solutions
Sell external cpu solutions
Sell external memory solutions

Later one could combine these for a mutli-purpose external solution for IT upgrades. For now though testing - experiments and the raw materials and costs need to be quoted.

 

Is there any further news on this project!? I like the pic above g60force, if the final product is like that I would buy right away

 

So wait... would it be possible to desolder the MXM 2.1 slot and solder in its place a MXM 3.0 ? Are the motherboard connectors the same ?

Here are some pictures of my MXM 2.1 port and it doesn't look like it is possible. The MXM connectors of the video card go straight into the motherboard and judging from the looks of it, a different motherboard is needed in order to accommodate for MXM 3.0. If someone would be kind enough to post some pictures with the soldering of an MXM 3.0 port, that would be great.

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/1946/dsc00086ap.jpg

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/1324/dsc00085o.jpg

 

Thanks to g60force for cooperation in producing the prototype render.
First page updated.
Stay tuned for more news in coming months.

Eye0fHoruS,
Your idea of the case is a replica of what ATI/AMD is doing with XGP - they only allow mobile cards in tiny boxes.

Blacky,
As per MXM 2.X specs and MXM 3.0 tech brief the difference in connector widths can be clearly seen - ~62mm for MXM 2.X and 70 odd for MXM 3.0.
It is certainly possible to make an adapter, for which a MXM 3.0 pinout is needed as well as some skills, equipment and parts.
You could start with trying to get a hold of a pinout - lots of people would appreciate it.

 

I will be looking into it.

 

Anyone try it out

 

So guys I've read the majority of the posts and while I'll admit that this is a noble effort...

What are you going to do for cabling? You can't just strip out IDE cable to connect PCI-E! the cable must be em shielded from everything and more importantly: The length of each wire track must be the same to within the micrometer. If the cable flexes and the lengths change then the card may crash or reboot.

The cable technology is perhaps the biggest reason we don't have this technology now (in my opinion).

Does anyone have a solution for the cable issue?

 

How many pins does the MXM 3.0 have?

You might also find this thread interesting :
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?p=5558079

Remember that the MXM 3.0 is a direct descendent of the MXM 2.1 HE.

Also MXM 2.1 pinouts are here: http://stashbox.org/679919/MXM_Electro_Spec.pdf

Does anyone have a link to MXM 3.0 pinouts?

 

Any news? ... We cannot lose track of this wonderfull idea..

And since Nvidia is fekkin' up by rebranding thousand more *ahum* 3xx series, we really can't be buying new laptops cuz the prices compared to performance is sh*t

*bump*

 

Bored at school so I thought that I would have a crack at it.
I'm not an expert so apologies if my idea makes no sense or is ridiculous.

1. you do what nando4 says in the above quote (desktop gpu now plugs into mxm slot)
2. build/buy something like this, this or maybe this?

so now you have your input through the mxm and your output through the desktop gpu DVI to the LCD LVDS
What do you guys think?

I was also wondering if you could use a laptop with switchable graphics to simplify the process ( Nvidia Optimus comes to mind?)

 

http://www.andovercg.com/datasheets/molex-74546-0813.pdf

external pci-e cables etc
imho we just need to solder the mxm pins to the cable pins and it will work flawless. If just my soldering skills were better...

 

I have a suggestion of how we can get the cables of an mxm module external.

What kind of port is already present in a laptop that has lots of pins?

They nearly all have either dvi or hdmi or displayport.

Im sure the mxm graphics card has pinouts from the MXM module to the video out socket?

Change the pinouts!

Instead of having the MXM card pinout a DVI signal to the DVI port, have it pump out PCIE lanes to the DVI port.

Then, use a standard dvi cable to connect it to the external box.

Of course, this solution is only useful for external displays and not the LVDS display, but really, little steps are most important.

To get something like this actually viable, we would need to make it usable with minimal modification to the chassis of a notebook.

So, we got a blank mxm module that runs the internal PCIE lanes to the DVI port on the laptop, and all we have to do is wire a pcie connector to the DVI Cable.

Easy! (ish)

-Ash

EDIT:

I realise a DVI connector has a lot less pins than a PCIEx16 connection, but it should be fine for a 4x 2.0 connection if we double up a few of the grounds.

-Ash

 

Has there been any movement on this project?

 

I have to put my words in here. The idea is simply great. First of all, most of us don't want several computers, just one to be exact. One we can do all things on. Internet, mail, wordprocessing, work, gaming. Therefor we want portability too. And that is something that the laptop industri don't like to research in, why? Because if we can we don't need to buy a new laptop and that is not what they want, so as long as possible they will do whatever in their power to keep this tech out of the market.

I clearly see it's potential since it will give us portability as well as good gaming device when we are at home (or we can bring it along if needed) but we have the option and we can even buy a new graphics card if the old gets too slow... I would buy one asap

 

you should check this thread out then http://forum.notebookreview.com/gam...7667-lets-figure-out-how-make-diy-vidock.html

 

Hmm I know that thread, but that diy dock has no near the potential. I mean the bench so far does not seem good and from what I could read this guy had a different approach

 

well the first thing you guys should try is to connect mxm to 1x pci-e

 

[deleted - not relevant]

 

Hey,

No news about this project? The begining was good;so wha'ts up?

 

I known the thread is rather old.
Now we all known the future isn't bright for this to happen.
PCI Express 2.0 (x4 link) 16 Gbit/s 2 GB/s
Thunderbolt 10 Gbit/s x 2 1.25 GB/s x 2
ExpressCard 2.0 PCI Express mode 5,000 Mbit/s 625 MB/s
USB Super Speed (USB 3.0) 5 Gbit/s 625 MB/s
External PCI Express x16 32 Gbit/s 4 GB/s

so we came to the conclusion the only way is to convert mxm to pci-e.
problem was we didn't had access to the specifications. pci-sig required a $3000 year fee to access the documentation. I made some "requests" regarding if anyone could... get access to some...
I think I was heard because I just found out this:
PCI.Express.Specifications (download torrent) - TPB
including the piece we most needed:
PCI_Express_External_Cabling_Rev1.0_updated.pdf
I'll be studying this documents to see what I can do.

 

Sounds excellent!! Glad someone on the forums is still as interested in mxm upgrades as myself

I am happy to do any testing etc if it helps. Although my knowledge of hardware beyond the basics is quite limited

 

the problem: even if I could grab some components (which is already not an easy task), I couldn't solder all the micro ultra thin and sensitive components. It would require someone with great soldering skills and/or some sort of a specialized soldering iron. the kind that costs several thousands of dollars.
so this approach is a no go. I have to try something else. The good news is that the device we want CAN BE MADE. the technology is already here for several years and we even have all the specifications, regarding pci-e and mxm. the only difficulty? built the first one.

 

This idea is definitely not impossible but it definitely cannot be easily standardized unlike the DIY VIDOCK.. err eGPU now which uses easily accessible x1 and expressports.

Problems:
1) Have to totally rip open the laptop - big hassle.
2) MXM standard is kept under wraps, MXM has so many different versions.
3) Each laptop manufacture use different MXMs versions or not even MXM for dedicated graphics as they solder the GPU directly to the MOBO
4) LVDS - big time hassle.
5) Most laptops don't even have dedicated graphics

If I were to try I'd probably use a series of CAT6A cable which can provide 10Gb/s @ 500MHZ.

But then again the PCIe x16 is 164pin and CAT6A is 8 pin per cable...

So 164 / 8pin = 20 CAT6a cables ...

~$10 (for 30cm cable) * 20 cables = $200 .. ouch

I can now see why this thread was abandoned..

With express port 2.0 eGPU will get much better

BTR

 

I disagree. LVDS might be a big time hassle but a huge deal worth it. What's the point on gaming on an external monitor if you don't have to. Of course with optimus it is already possible to do this anyways with vidock. Just a shame there is nothing for ati users yet.

 

Would be very interested in MXM 3.0 to PCI-E adapters as running Mobility series cards in desktops would significantly reduce overall power consumption.

 

forgive my ignorance as i may be missing something and asking a stupid question but wouldn't a an MXM adepter require you to take out your mobile GPU and in essence defeat the point in have a laptop in the first place. As you would have to re-apply thermal paste every time you wanted to move your laptop or is the idea that you will carry around the external GPU everywhere you go

 

you already have on the market this kind of solutions. you can today buy a mxm to pci-e card (not pci-e to mxm, that's what we need). problem is, you can't buy mxm cards, at least it's not very easy.

yes because you would have to use the same interface. that's the problem, you need a faster interface, in this case,mxm. but there are notebooks with 2 graphic cards ie 2mxm slots, you could easily make an adapter for 1 slot. anyway, if you need this kind of gpu power on a notebook you certainly won't bother having less portability, since desktop replacement notebooks aren't exactly known for their great battery life. what we need is flexibility, having a notebook that can have the power of a desktop without compromising portability, you can't have both at the same time. ie, there aren't many notebooks, if any, that the battery lasts more then 1hour playing crysis at high settings. Also this kind of solution would make us able of achieving way better performance at a fraction of a cost and also solves the huge problem of upgradability.