Let's figure out how to convert internal MXM connector an external PCI-E x16 box

You could attach 2 cables to the mxm connector and the gpu connector that would go outside of the laptop. You'd need like 1/2 inch of free space to position your mxm gpu a bit further from the mxm slot. Then cut a hole in the side of your laptop and put 2 hdmi ports(or whatever) there. Then when you connect those 2 ports with a cable, you'll be using your internal gpu. Otherwise you connect your external gpu with a cable to port 1, which is an extension of the mxm slot.

 

Really? Can you give me a link? I only now there was once such a solution for MXM 2.1 cards, but never heard about 3.0.
Buying MXM cards isn't as hard as it used to be, there are some vendors that whip worldwide, but it's expensive and most of the times there are only the high-end cards available.

 

Hi guys very interesting project you have going on.

I'd very much like to help in development of this device.



couldnt we just convert the pcei pins to a female connector jam a 6970 gfx into that and the mxm pins to a male connector slot it into the laptop mobo? im guessing all those other fancy components on the board is to utilize video out etc or i maybe wrong.

Dont flame me, but atleast this board gives us a slight idea of which pins should be designated from pcie to mxm? right?

so it maybe just a matter of making up a male to male mxm connector and female to female pcie converter?

 

Vibroke is that picture something that is available now?

That is exactly what I'm looking for!! I want to use multiple MXM cards in desktops to improve efficiency. Can you post a link of where to purchase that?

 

In case anyone is interested here is a link to the company:

׿ÐǿƵç - Éù¿¨|ת½Ó¿¨|ת»»Æ÷ - Mini PCI/PCIE/MXM

Looks like they even have a dual MXM to single PCI adapter:

¹«Ë¾²úÆ· - ±Ê¼Ç±¾ÏÔ¿¨ÄÚÖÃMXMתPCI-EÍâÖÃÊä³öת½Ó¿¨ - PCIEתMXM

 

I don't understand. doesn't MXM card cost much much more than desktop equivalent? unless you are limited to a single PCIex16 slot in your motherboard I don't see the reason you wanna do sth like that. IMO I think purchasing a dual chip graphics card like GTX590 is a better option compared to dual/multi MXM cards.

 

I followed up the link and found they have an eGPU casing as well:
¹«Ë¾²úÆ· - PCIeÍâÑÓ½Ó¿Ú¹¦ÄÜ¿¨Á¬½ÓºÐ - ViDock Pro 3

it has 72w power supply, a temperature controled fan, and has two versions of box to choose, one supports up to 180mm card length and the other supports up to 312mm card length.

very interesting, not sure if they adopt PE4L/H or developed their own solution. should be much cheaper than PE4L/H I suppose.

 

You mean the PE4L/PE4H is a lot cheaper than the ViDock? ViDock3 starts at $215 delivered worldwide. PE4L starts at $77 delivered workwide.

 

I mean the product from that link shall be cheaper than PE4L/H as I've seen how cheap these stuff from china can be when sold locally. When it is rebranded and sold by a US reseller the price usually doubles or triples for the least.

 

Yes that product is available i think i found the initial link on alibaba.com cant find it now =/

Apologies for the late reply i was having issues getting a 5870m into my alienware m15x.. then i ran into more issues long story short im back with my 260gtx

And look they have an option to change to english language >.>

http://www.pcidv.com/en/

Check this out the guys from the DIY Vidock would love this Dual USB 3.0 to PCI-E converter so 2 x 5Gbps links = 10Gps or as tested USB 3.0 maxed out at 3Gbps oppose to the claimed 5Gbps?

http://www.pcidv.com/en/class.asp?lx=desktop&anid=67&nid=594

 

The "SuperSpeed" bus provides a fourth transfer mode at 5.0 Gbit/s. The raw throughput is 4 Gbit/s, and the specification considers it reasonable to achieve 3.2 Gbit/s (0.4 GB/s or 400 MB/s), or more.

no way usb3.0 is going to solve the bottleneck. not even 2x. sure it can improve (a bit) but nothing more. Thunderbolt doesn't work too. the bottleneck is just huge. we really need a pci-e connector.
we need a real solution.

PCI Express 2.0 (x16 link) 64 Gbit/s 8 GB/s

PCI Express 1.0 (x16 link) 32 Gbit/s 4 GB/s

USB Super Speed (USB 3.0) 5 Gbit/s 625 MB/s
2x USB Super Speed (USB 3.0) 10 Gbit/s 1250 MB/s
Thunderbolt 10 Gbit/s x 2 1.25 GB/s x 2

 

Ok guys... either this is amazingly awesome news or me being a complete electronics noob... either way here it is:

http://www.qseven-standard.org/fileadmin/spec/Qseven-Spec_1.20.pdf

QSeven works in MXM rigt?... and the link above describes the pinout.... specifically this:




(more detail in the first link to the .pdf file)

So if we've gotten the pinout, we've solved what we need to be able to manufacture/adapt this special MXM to PCIe connector right?

Or what am I missing?

 

Nothing, just that no one is willing to do it ...

 

I am willing to participate... I just kinda like either need to do some research (extensive by the way) to know how to wire the things together, knowing what pin in MXM goes to which one in PCIe so it works properly

or

get help from someone who already knows that...

As far as I've seen, this has been accomplished at least a couple of times right?? I mean ONLY interconnecting MXM-PCIe pins from the adapters I've seen so far. regardless of the functionality of the devices accomplished, we only need that... and after that we get to the technical problems right?
Like knowing the voltages fed to each pin and everything? And other things I don't know yet?

About feeding the card with power... we can mind about that later right?

 

Theoretically yes.

Actually i think the vBIOS knows what voltage to use for each pin and it should be compatible with the PCI-e ones. Fundamentally they are not THAT different as MXM is a modified PCI-e interface.

 

That's what I guessed... so... then that's like... all?
With the pinout of both intefaces available the only thing left is to create a cable that would link them?

I have another question for you guys. Specifiaclly for those of you who knoe about ViDock...

If I bought two ViDock 4's (the top of the line right? ) and strip one of the power adapter, would I be able to use both to get an enhanced ViDock that supports dual 6-pin PCIe so I can run a better card? (for example a GTX 570)... is that possible?

 

The top of the line VD4+ has a 75W+150W adapter. WE've just seen an example here of the VD4+ power fuse blowing as it can't deliver the > 225W a GTX570 needs.

If your modding a VD then why not go a DIY eGPU to begin with? It would cost a lot less and give you a lot more flexibility on how you want to power it.

 

OK, but what if I modded two of those so I could deliver twice as much power to the graphics card?? Is it possible? Like two power bricks for each 6-pin PCIe? I know that would mean having a total of 4 power bricks but I really need things that way instead of a DIY. I LOVE making things myself and I know it is WAY cheaper than the not-so-good ViDOck but you want to know the reason?? Here it goes:
I travel a lot, and that includes Mexico, and the lawmakers here have imposed the following:
Travel with a laptop? OK
Desktop? Then:
Documents,
plus inspection,
plus delay,
plus possible hold of the product, (plus maybe they will open/steal from it and thus MORE hassle)
plus taxes... (take into account I already paid for those in the US)
And I HATE that... I don't know what must be on their minds, maybe they believe everyone loves laptops or that desktops are no longer personal computers... well it beats me, and I'll never know why, but that's the stupid way it is, so I'm only left with two options...
Either I buy a laptop I don't really want(by the way expensive) or...
Try to solve things by at least finding a way to connect desktop graphics card to the laptop, a way that doesn't involve using a standard desktop PSU (you don't want to know the story when I brought a PSU in my luggage) and just use decent normal-looking power bricks...

By the way I'm left with no option but to use MXM, my laptop doesn't have an express card slot and I would like to keep WiFi connectivity... but maybe I could use a USB adapter... is there any other way to connect it?? AFAIK it's only Express Card or mPCIe right? wich by the way limits bandwidth to what? x1?? Isn't there any other way??

Maybe I'll end up using a DIY eGPU connecting at least my GTX 580... or maybe purchase a GTX 590, I mean as long as the desktop PSU can supply enough power it can be done right? Any advice on what GPU to use? I guess GTX 590 would be foolish as bandwidth would cap performance right? I'm guessing GTX 580 is the best one can use with mPCIe?? Am I right?

 

Ok, returning to topic...

If there's someone out there with whose expertise would allow to figure the pin-to-pin connection (MXM to PCIe) I would really appreciate it if they could post it in here.

And if I succeed in doing a functional adapter I would return the favor by making another functional model for the one who provided the info... for free of course...

 

I know this is old as hell but...

I could try an do it... either by making a pcb myself or sending it to prototyping companies...
(I just realized the QSeven pinout isn't anywhere near as amazing as I thought it was... it's the old MXM, so here I am again, with the limiting factor being MXM pinout)
Does anyone know where can I find the pinouts for MXM that is NOT a torrent??
I would appreciate it if anyone could point me to it. And to this contributor I would also provide a free sample of my successfully made adaptor (if I ever achieve such a thing, and I do believe I will)
Thanks!

 

You can try and do it for the old MXM 2.1 like the one I have. I am willing to test your card.

 

Mmm... I wold like that, but then I have the RAM problem... If I want to do it with MXM 2.1 I won't be able to fit the laptop with anything more than 4GB of ram and I really need the maximum of 16 SB notebooks provide. Or am I mistaken? Can anyone point out to a Sandy Bridge Laptop that supports 16GB of RAM AMD implements MXM 2.1??

Is it really THAT hard to get the pinout for 3.0? Hasn't there been a leak anywhere or what?

 

Why just 4 GB? I don't get it.

Mine can take 8 GB.

 

You're right... there are many capable of taking the 8GB of RAM... but I need 16... there's a certain ASUS that supports 12, being a Sandy Bridge notebook.
By the way what laptop do you currently have?

 

The one in my sign and i am not planning to change it until Ivy Bridge arrives.

 

I also would be very happy to test your mxm 2.1 connector grossemesser!

 

Great! I'll keep you posted!
And I'm eager to prototype... but as long as I don't have the documents this is going to be veeeeeeeeeeery hard.
I got my hands on the PCI SIG documents someone posted before, but not a word on MXM...
Does anyone have any idea on how to... reverse-engineer (or something) MXM? So we can figure out the pinout?

I can't believe there hasn't been a leak or anything like that.

 

Do you think that will happen anytime soon?

 

Using your I/O chipset datasheet, eg: ICH9M, or a schematic of your notebook or another which uses MXM, do a continuity DMM test from the I/O chip pin to the MXM pin to map out what the pins are. This is made more difficult by the I/O chip being BGA mounted so would need to remove the BGA chip to do it.

Suggest seek out schematics from places like http://www.laptopdesktopschematic.com/ and hope they've labelled the MXM connector for you.

 

Wow, thank you nando4!
Ok, I was guessing a multimeter would come into play sooner or later. But I don't completely get it...
What do you mean with input/output pin? I'm guessing the GPU itself? It's the only thing I can think of that's Ball Grid Array mounted... sorry for the noobness but I hope you guys are patient and kinda like "guide" me or as you are doing, giving me advice.

BTW, how are BGA chips held in place? Most certainly they will be soldered right? Does it involve reflowing and reballing? because I've never done that before... is it difficult? It really doesn't matter, cause I'll do it anyway.

I'll seek for the schematics.

 

great... laptopdesktopschematic.com charges for the plans... now where else can I find them for free?

 

I'll try too to make the map of pin from PCI X16 & MXM 2.1
Here : Free - Envoyez vos documents
(clic on "télécharger ce fichier")
That's all i found (technical docs for MXM products & pinouts)
There's still work to do, but that could help you in research.

With it, there's also doc for clevo M570Tu (service manual, technical component,etc.)
PS : You can take a look here : MXM Upgrade Home Page

I hope it will be useful! If Anybody else is motivated, just send your brain at work! xD

 

any luck so far guys....fyi-i joined just for this and egpu

 

no luck. I've contacted dozens of companies to make such a device. they all refused. my guess? only notebook manufacturers can do such a thing because of the mxm specs.
I tried and after some months I finally had some results. but then they were asking me to order at least 10000 notebooks... That's kind of... expensive... lol

anyway with the current thunderbolt, usb 3.0 and pci-e 2.0 we might see good implementations of next generation hwtools converters. since bandwidth would only be crippled by about 15% (assuming 2x usb3.0) using current generation graphic cards (it will get worse in the future)

 

I was googling around for this very information and found this thread. I think this has great DIY potential for those with MXM video cards.

I dont want to use a vidock or pE4H and get nerfed performance when it "may" be possible to take advantage of full or partial 16x pci-e using the mxm slot. Is it possible to petition hwtools to take this into consideration? Im sure there is money to be made here!

 

Already tried. No answer.
well there's no need to be so radical. most graphic cards just lose about 5% of performance when using pci-e 2.0 4x that's 16 Gbit/s. Tunderbolt has 20Gbit/s and usb3.0 5Gbit/s. mxm could provide PCI Express 2.0 x16 64 Gbit/s.
The problem is not all notebooks use mxm and just a very few uses 2 mxm slots. That's why it's not appealing to make such a product.
With mini pci-e products they can sell hundreds because despite the crippled performance people don't have another alternative and almost every notebook has a mini pci-e slot.
Also 2 graphic card notebooks are huge and we have the problem of portability. Of course they could be used in a single slot notebook if it has an igp.
I just hope the next generation products to come with thunderbolt or that it can be used with multiple usb3.0 to improve scalability. there isn't much to expect.

 

The new Vidock should come with a Thunderbolt slot, but pcie x16 2.0 have 16GB/s transmission rate and Thunderbolt only 1,2GB/s
pcie x16 3.0 have 32GB/s transmission rate.
so how should it be possible to get a card like 6990 work with full performance with a thunderbolt slot or
with usb 3.0 which is slower as thunderbolt?

So is there any converter for an MXM to PCI or PCIe?

or is it possible to solder one?

or is it just impossible?

 

Performance are not transform by PCI-express as you can see here :
Bande passante, mesures théoriques - Influence du PCI Express sur les GPU - HardWare.fr
(translate : Google Traduction)
and in FPS what it represents here : Crysis Warhead, FarCry 2, Metro 2033 - Influence du PCI Express sur les GPU - HardWare.fr
translate : Translate _perf)

so for tips, X16 1.0 = X8 2.0 = X4 3.0 for speed rate
The problem of expresscard is that it's X1 only so too slow...
A X1 3.0 begins to be better but that's not enough & notebook with that would be expensive...
So we've to work more!!

 

hey is it possible to order or have made an MXM 2.1 to MXM 2.1 ribbon cable. i think it will have to be shielded and only so long or may distort the signal? I have crazy crack head idea to stuff some bigger MXM III gfx cards in my tiny acre 5920G and upgrade the cooling for the whole laptop.

 

no. mxm cables don't have to be shielded.
Actually on most notebooks there's no need for a cable. it's all made by the motherboard. the only notebook I known that has a cable connecting 2 mxm cards is the alienware M17 and the cable was to connect 2 ati cards. with nvidia cards the cable wasn't needed. there was no connector on the cards.
I like your idea very much.

 

MSI has a full height PCI-E x16 card with two MxM 3.0 module for SLI. It seem to have some exernal components to support the MxM modules to make it work. If we can find out what components are required, making your own PCI-E x16 card to accommodate MxM is a possibility.

 

actually it is for custom project idea. as far as i know type 2.1 HE will work with regular 2.1 slot, like in my acer 5920G how ever no way, even if hell froze over would one of those behemoths fit in there even with lubrication.

so my idea is to make ribbon cable thats lets me remove the card from the stock location but, still have it connected to the MXM 2.1 slot. this way i can make my own frame that screws to the bottom of the laptop where the cover usually goes mount the mxm 2.1 or HE card with my own custom heat sink and additional case fans to cool the card and the rest f the laptop.

if i can make it work in 1-1/2 inch depth i should golden i propped up my laptop to see if it would be uncomfortable and it seemed no different that normal.

how ever this is a long term idea. i'm saving up for a 4670 2.1 card atm.

 

any one? i'm probably gonna do a some goggling for a while, gonna try to find some place that makes custom ribbon cables.

 

Nice project...

But a question about the MXM pin layout of the Qseven controller, if you look at the PCI express connector they are totally different on the schematics. So i think you need the pin lay out from your MXM graphic card.

I have posted a link below from a company, who can make the PCB. But you need a company number. It will cost 200 euros. You will need 3 connectors

1. ATX connector (power) or DIY connector) pin layout known.
2. The bottom of the print MXM connectorn ( 230 pins ) ( the company can make this )
3. The PCI express slot (PCI-e x16) and pin layout known.

So, you need the right I/O pins of the card you own. Or the schematics of the mainboard. After that you can wire everything to the right pins.

LeiterplattenSMD-Schablonen Discount Kurze Lieferzeit Qualitaet --> price --> calculate

( Its a german site you can choose english )

 

Nice project...

But a question about the MXM pin layout of the Qseven controller, if you look at the PCI express connector they are totally different on the schematics. So i think you need the pin lay out from your MXM graphic card.

I have posted a link below from a company, who can make the PCB. But you need a company number. It will cost 200 euros. You will need 3 connectors

1. ATX connector (power) or DIY connector) pin layout known.
2. The bottom of the print MXM connectorn ( 230 pins ) ( the company can make this )
3. The PCI express slot (PCI-e x16) and pin layout known.

So, you need the right I/O pins of the card you own. Or the schematics of the mainboard. After that you can wire everything to the right pins.

LeiterplattenSMD-Schablonen Discount Kurze Lieferzeit Qualitaet --> price --> calculate

( Its a german site you can choose english )

 

that's a GREAT idea! I'm going to contact them. Just imagine a bottleneck free egpu <3 it would be the ultimate machine. 200€ it's high but considering the other options it is quite good.

 

This is unrelated to this thread, but I think this may be the best place to ask (if it hasn't already been asked), but is it possible to make an MXM 2.1 to MXM 3.0 adapter?

 

The MXM 3.0 standard doesn't require backwards compatibility to 2.x, so even if it might work in some cases (provided you have a working adapter) there's no guarantee that it'll work.

 

I been periodically following this topic in the forum for quite a while; so the issue at hand is to make an MXM GPU/connector to work on a PCI-E GPU/slot. This would probably be a very costly project, the specifications on the connector and its pinout (especially for 3.0) are not published anywhere, and only those affiliated with MXM SIG (corporate e-mail) can access such information. Therefore, the best option is to do some reverse engineering, unless the connector is 2.x (would be easier) and earlier.

One cannot simply just match pinout to pinout. There needs to be quite a lot of electrical engineering involved for MXM to PCI-E or PCI-E to MXM. One promising and possible method to understand a 3.0 connector is to examine the MSI-GS45-M ( http://us.msi.com/product/ipc/IM-GS45-M.html); The integrated chipset and CPU are by Intel, they publish whitepapers online, and include chip pinouts. The MXM slot on this board allow ones to map out the essential connections/pins, which include the PCI-E lanes, power rails, and trans MXM-GPU display lines. (Look at text below this picture)

ONLY 1 PLACE ON INTERNET SELLS THIS MOTHERBOARD: http://www.orbitmicro.com/global/ms-9871--im-gs45-m--p-16424.html?ref=base


1) The PCI-E data/lanes are rather straight forward, the PCI-E bus has lanes and ports; in fact it is possible to run multiple GPU's on a single MXM connector, just split them physically and equally among the GPUs (1 GPU = x16 lanes, 2 GPU = x8 & 8x, etc - analagous to the MSI SLI boards and Asus Trinity). (Info on PCI-E specifications are easy to access online to understand what signals are essential)

2) MXM slot carries display signals, those can be externalized as well, but I am not sure if they need any post-processing before being output to a display connector; might need to examine MSI-GS45-M for that.

3) The last major component is the power supply circuit or VRM (voltage regulator module). Such a circuit is never present on a MXM board, or else it would run too hot and be far too dificult to cool, but it is present on motherboard/laptops that have MXM connectors. With out doubt people in this forum have seen the MSI SLI board, the AMD propriatoary MXM-PCI-E boards, and the Asus Trinity. One will notice a number of components on the right end of the circuit board (front side) consisting of mosfets, tiny resistors, capacitors, condensors, etc. This is the VRM circuit, which maintains constant and accurate powerflow at the right phase, specific voltage, and current to the specific GPU. Perhaps the easiest way to bypass the VRM is to use an EVGA EPower board with some soldering skills; don't even think of using the power provided on a MXM slot to power an external PCI-E GPU, because it would certainly burnout the VRM in laptop/motherboard.

4) Other possible obstacles along the way may include motherboard manufacturer security and compatibility with GPU.

5) Length of circuit/wiring to make MXM externalized to PCI-E; the longer it is, the higher the latency. (might not be much of an issue)

6) PCI-E 3.0 has just been released, it is possible that a new MXM connector/module could be out soon. The lifepsan for each MXM version is estimated to be 3 to 5 years.

 

Tried flashing an MXM 3.0 vbios onto my MXM 2.1 4870, no image in screen (wont even display through HDMI).

So I'm giving up on getting an MXM 3.0 card into an MXM 2.1 slot.