Let's figure out how to make a DIY eGPU (previously DIY ViDock)

See PE4H experience to help with purchasing decision: PE4L or PE4H?

 

I'm still a bit confused by the 1x limitation. So the 1x is limiting the HD 4670 from working at full performance correct? So the 1x connection is the bottleneck, not the HD4670. Then why bother with the HD4670? Why not het like a 3000 series that matches the bottleneck of the 1x connection? Also why are some people using HD 4870s? Isn't that just a waste of money, considering the bottleneck is the 1x connection? Or am I not getting something?

 

See PCI-E Scaling Analysis for an idea of performance HD3850-256mb versus HD4870-1GB at x16 2.0, x2 1.0 and x1 1.0 speeds.

At x1 1.0 you're seeing over 50% performance loss versus a x16 2.0 desktop system link. x1 2.0 (expressport 2.0 with PM55 chipset) or if can get a x2 1.0 link working only sees 20% performance loss. Far better. A HD4670 performs similarly to a HD3850 but with less power consumption.

From this analysis we can conclude that anything more than a HD4670 will only give minor performance improvements with a x1 1.0 link. A faster card like a HD4870 will have better performance at higher resolutions. Not sure if 5xxx series has made any improvements to minimise pci-e bandwidth requirements. If so, then perhaps the HD4670 equivalent in that series is worth a look.

Hoping we can get some more performance figures as people report their PE4L/PE4H experiences.

 

Maybe that 3850 was limited by its 256MB in Crysis?

 

Oh ok.....thanks.

 

Says sold out for me

 

You have to refresh the page.

 

I've noticed that some people suggested the SATA transfer bandwidth as a medium, but apparently by nando (and others) it's not possible, and this is why I'm confused: Why? I understand that SATA doesn't have any PCI lane or equivalent, but why not just convert the signal? I don't know if there's any converters/adapters available for this, but why not try searching for one?

Here's the idea: Use SATA with a converter (or eSATA, take a pick) for transfer and USB for identifying and installing the cards drivers. I'm sure I'm wrong and frankly I'm not that acquainted with the mechanics about SATA, only possess the knowledge on how to use it in common day use

 

If I add it to card it say's sold out, not on the main page, sorry.

 

sata wont work, its completely different. pci-e is general purpose, sata is storage only..

 

I believe this is due to the underlying mechanics of each of the ports. Sata and esata is probably only a transfer medium and does not have the other required signals in order to completely emulate its images to a screen.

Have to remember all these devices have in common is use of a ICH or pciX channel or whatever. Some1 correct me! I know nothing..

 

PE4H adds to cart , not sold out...

i don't have enough funds to play around with this just yet, but i'll definitely be looking into this(snagging it if hwtools drops it's price)... not sure whether i'll pay more for 2x though the performance increase's good

$25 300+W PSU + $60 ATI 4670 + adapter($73 cheapest, $103 for expandability, $133 for full 2x) ... $155-$218.... i could build a gaming desktop for $300

 

Could you show this. I'm a bit confused as to why you not used a regular PSU to power it. If you did this to make things more portable then you can disregard this Question.

I saw your pciexpress layout on your dv2000. Is there anything you could conclude from mine? You said ICH8 is a requirement for 2x mode is it not?

 

Well sure SATA is for storage only, just like a hammer is for nails. But you can use a pipe both for transport water as well a hammer. But my point being, even if the purpose is different - is it also technically impossible?

SATA only being a transfer medium, but letting a specific driver search, decode and recognizing the graphic cards signals (the PCI-E ones) - it's still impossible? My laptop is an "Asus G50V" with PM45+ICH9M but in time it'll give in eventually and that's when i'll have to use an external solution, and a friend of mine already has a need for such/one. And when considering a converter from PCI-E to SATA signals, i was thinking with the principle of "Parallell to USB" conversion (as you know, the parallell has alot of pins/signals) - I've used a converter of such to an old printer and the driver(s) recognized it immediately.

But hey, I'm just thinking out loud here so if it's really impossible, then we can ignore this

Edit:

An image of my chipset's layout (it's identical to PM45):



Datasheet: http://www.intel.com/Assets/PDF/datasheet/316972.pdf

Edit 2:

By the way, my friend's laptop is an "Sony Vaio SZ PCG-6W2N" from what he told me but i fail to find any specifications in it (it's been purchased in Japan, he's studying there) and wonder if someone can help me find any info about ExpressCard? He took pictures of it at the sides but the closest thing i could determine is "PC Card"/CardBus -

His laptop being an 13" only, does pack alot of "punches" - with the graphic card as an exception. T9500, 4GB DDR2, Vista (atm) and have already convinced him using Win7 if/when using an "vidock" solution - that's why I'm bringing this up. It was purchased somewhere last year so I assume it has expresscard, but to be on the safe side.

 

cardbus is not the same as an express card slot. It won't work.
You should check if the notebook had a miniPCIe card slot.

Usually under the keyboard or on the bottom of the notebook.
You may have to take it apart to find the port. It usually has the wifi adapter in it.

 

Hmm, this is what I get

 

Obviously it wouldn't with CardBus, but that's only my conclusion from what i THINK is CardBus - not that it'd be but I'm open for a new set pair of eyes for measuring. And yes, I've considered miniPCIe port.

But as for my last post...

 

Nando, could you also do a benchmark @ 1920x1080?

Tell him to measure it first, if it's 34mm then it's probably express. if 54mm he should look inside with a flashlight at the connector; if it's like 34mm wide then it's express

 

Added as Performance Scaling with resolution section in DIY ViDock - My experiences so far

PCI CONFIG. Apply DIYVDOCK.TXT instructions using RAR or IMG file to create a USB or floppy bootable image. In this package is a very useful tool called pt.exe (peritool) that can do some scouting on your configuration details.

Once done, bootup and run x2-conf.bat. Note the RCBA address, and edit the file with *your* RCBA details. Re-run. If it works without halting the system, reboot the system, uncomment out the line ":: ctty > x2conf.out", run again, save and post the output of x2conf.out. If a line halts the system, reboot and 'edit x2-conf.bat', remove the offending line and re-run.

Dell M1330 port layout - From another user. It seems hwtools have a GTX260 running in x2 mode with this

 

You are suggesting encoding the signal to work through SATA then decode the signal into something the video card can understand. Assuming you wanted to use SATA to increase performance, this is not possible.
Is it theoretically possible to communicate to a video card through SATA? Perhaps, at the cost of run-time performance and a hell of a lot of needless coding, reverse engineering and hacking.

 

halfway building my own now, sorted out all the wiring, next up is making all the tiny solder joints on that half mil tracks :/

 

Wait, what if there are multiple PCIe ports on the chipset? Then would it be possible to have 8/16x speeds?

 

if the laptop/mobo has ports out, then yeah...(some laptops have a dock which has vga out, ethernet, usb... probably a PCIe x1 connector somewhere... what's left would be to find out how to adapt which wire to where....)....

if you want to trace out the mobo and see if you can solder with a microscope, then yeah...

most laptops have standard ports: expresscard, mPCIe, USB, eSATA, VGA/HDMI/displayport, firewire, ethernet, PCMCIA/PC card... only the expresscard and mPCIe (so far) have working solutions...

you most likely won't find an unused x8/x16 trace on the mobo since manufactures won't design an output and NOT use it...

 

I'm willing to take the risk and try this out on my Dell M4400, but I have one question: to have any chance of getting an x2 connection, is soldering (something) required? Or can I just buy the PE4H, EC2C, PM3N, cables, video card, and PSU, and just hook them all up?

 

No soldering required if you're happy to buy all the bits. This is assuming that your expressport and mPCIe port are port1 and port2, with no whitelisting (I do believe Dell don't do that). Based on hwtool's results, it would appear the M1330 *might* be x2 capable, so another Dell unit would be a great candidate to try it on.

 

Excellent! Thanks for the quick reply. I'll order the parts and give it a shot. I'll report back when I have some results.

 

Here's some interesting info: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2/98801

Edit:

Also, http://www.astro-systems.com/IA-Series/ia_series_page1.html and http://www.systemation-inc.com/manuals/ADP-103Manual.pdf

 

Can a volunteer with a desktop system perform some testing?

Can anyone with a Intel-chipset based desktop graphics using pcie-slot-big.gif as a reference, do the following:

1/ Mask all pins except lane1-lane4. That being:

lane1: EXP_A_TXP_0/ EXP_A_TXN_0/ EXP_A_RXP_0/EXP_A_RXN_0
lane2: EXP_A_TXP_1/ EXP_A_TXN_1/ EXP_A_RXP_1/EXP_A_RXN_1
lane3: EXP_A_TXP_2/ EXP_A_TXN_2/ EXP_A_RXP_2/EXP_A_RXN_2
lane4: EXP_A_TXP_3/ EXP_A_TXN_3/ EXP_A_RXP_3/EXP_A_RXN_3

2/ Individually mask out intermediate 2 lanes and test with the remaining two lanes. That is: lane1+lane3, lane1+lane4, lane2+lane3, lane2+lane4.

The idea is to identify what 2 lane setups work correctly. We know that ICH8M/ICH9M support port1+port2 for x2 mode and port1-port4 as x4 mode. The x4 mode is interesting because if such a test does work, then it would mean that if PE4H had 4 lane connectors, then matching the connector to the port would allow x2 mode outside of using only port1 and port2. Example: the DV2000 has port1=expressport and port4=mPCIe port. PE4H has only lane1 and lane2 connectors. So in the DV2000's case, given it supports x4 mode, could it work as a x4 link, missing the 2 intermediate lanes, ie: lane1+lane4?

 

It seems theneighborrkid's earlier report is still the case, i.e., the PE4H is sold out. You can add it to your cart, but if you actually try to checkout it will tell you the item is sold out. I hope it isn't long before it's back in stock.

 

I was wondering if anyone has tried this with an AMD platform? I have a an HP dv71267cl and wanted to know if this is a viable option for the rs780m chipset vs. the ich8m/ich9m chipset. Another interest is how this would interact with the Hybrid Graphics ability of the chipset when coupled with an ATI card.

System Specs:
CPU:: zm-86 (I replaced the rm-74 the first night I had the laptop)
Memory:: 4 GB DDR2
Graphics:: ATI Radeon Mobility HD 3200

If its feasible I will order the PE4H with EC2C and PM3N this Friday.

Does anyone know where I can find the Datasheet for RS780M?

 

According to this, they should be available Friday.

 

Some good news, if I'm reading this correctly. Wikipedia RS780M says it's the same as a M780G chipset.

EDIT/CORRECTION: RS780M has a x1 1.0 pci-e link. See here.

Found some AMD RS780 chipset datasheets that might help you along.

 

Mahalo for the quick response!!

Me being me, I also would like to setup the PM3N. Will this give me x2 2.0? I am willing to try. I will also gladly share my results.

Again Thank You for the fast response!

 

I was looking at that, and am thinking that I will probably go with the PE4H+EC2C and a 4870 2GB its only $205. I would be really bummed if I bought the additional parts and it didn't work. I will see if I can get the Datasheet for the AMD chipset (I used to work at the Best Buy Laptop Service Center and still have a few friends there).

Mahalo!

Oh! Nando4 WILL the PE4H's be available tomorrow? And if possible at what time (preferably GMT -8 PST )

 

why the hell would you want a 2 gb card..
most laptops have a 4 gb limit.. *total* memory.. so that would limit you to 2 gb normal ram *and* you wouldnt even use the 2 gb on the card because the link is too slow..

 

My max is 8GB. which I can get for just under $200 total (and yes thats 2 4GB sticks).

 

The 2GB is accessed via a 256MB PCI-E bridge window. 32-bit OS just needs to fit the window in the < 4GB space.

 

Also currently running Vista Home Premium 64-Bit (meh I have some W7 RTM Keys I got from a clients ActionPak, just havn't installed it yet). Looking through the Datasheets now (Thanks for the find).

 

there's a msi 4670 1GB on newegg $69.99 - 30 rebate =$39.99 if you're into rebates http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127440

you might need 2GB VRAM only if you're running crazy resolutions on multiple monitors

 

So let me get this straight, for a really long time... we have had access to expressport 2.0? Which notebooks, HP dv3z, tx2z, dv5z, dv6z, what else is there? Anything thin and light?

 

Expressport 2.0 isn't even out yet, its slated for release in notebooks in 2010.

 

Just noticed hwtools have increased the shipping cost by an extra US$4-US$10. So the prices now are:

What parts do I need?

x1 link mode^1		x2 link mode
US$55 PE4L-EC2C or PE4L-PM3N US$22 shipping US$77 total	US$85 PE4H-EC2C or PE4H-PM3N US$22 shipping US$107 total	US$85 PE4H-EC2C or PE4H-PM3N US$20 PM3N US$30 PCIEMM-100 US$28 shipping US$163 total

^1 buying the PE4H means can acquire parts later to try the x2 link. Some of the newer AMD chipsets have pci expresscard 2.0 support already. See next point.

You can save some money by buying the a PCIEMM-100 elsewhere. Eg: US$8 mini hdmi to mini hdmi cable. Could even buy the $10 PCIEMM-30 (30cm) but that might be a bit cramped. So cost can vary from $77 to $163. The potential to double the performance has double the cost.

PCI CONFIG scripts update in DIY ViDock - My experiences so far:

- can blank out the notebooks LCD completely (turn off backlight) if running XP. Saves power.
- can completely disable and hide the integrated graphics. This may give some more FSB overclocking headroom.
- included link to relevant datasheet so can look up and see what it's doing.
- 2510P's mPCIe whitelisting has also been overcome.

So if you have a 2510P or DV2000, have a completely sorted solution for x1 1.0 external desktop graphics. Other ppl can use these scripts as examples if encounter error 12: cannot allocate enough resources in XP/Win7.

 

So 2.0 is for the mini PCI-E not expressport ?

 

what is this x2 1.0. I understand x16 and x1, but when you say x2 1.0 what does this mean. regular desktop boards have pci x x16, x8 and x1 i believe. and i've been thinking x16 2.0 is the newer standard from x16.

lame for shipping to go up again..

can anyone get x2 1.0 instead of x1 1.0 with pe4L instead of x16 2.0 using PE4H?

 

x1 = 1 lane
x2 = 2 lanes
x16 = 16 lanes
1.0 = pci-express 1.0 (2.5Gbps per lane)
2.0 = pci-exprsss 2.0 (5.0Gbps per lane)

Any recent desktop system runs x16 2.0, ie: 80Gbps pci-e total bandwidth.

 

Rahul is correct regarding the fact that true Expresscard(XPC) 2.0 is not out yet. Standard XPC utilizes the USB 2.0 standard in conjuction with a single lane on the PCIe bus. XPC 2.0 will utilize the PCIe bus (since its 10X faster I'm assuming it will use more lanes) and USB 3.0.

I believe what Nando4 is getting at is that the PCIe bus on my MB is PCIe 2.0. Is it true Expresscard 2.0....no, BUT it still has twice the bandwidth of standard PCIe.

 

Yes.. I am curious what's happening on your system since the chipset is advertised " pci-express 2.0" . Even the configuration registers allow you to change it fro 2.5Gbps to 5Gbps mode. Since an expresscard is just a repackaged mPCIe slot with less pins, I'm wondering if you have in a sense an expresscard 2.0 compatible system already?? I guess you'd need to plug it in and run gpu-z to find out if it says x1 1.0 or x1 2.0.

 

Ah i see. Sorry don't pay attention enoguh. I was gonna say PE4L is limited to x1 1.0. but since you have pcie 2.0 its x1 2.0. Or same thing as x2 1.0. since lanes and pcie versions are just double eachother

 

FYI I only paid $700 for that laptop, its a refurb from Tigerdirect. I spent another $200 for the zm-86, so $900 total.

HP DV71267cl

Highlights::

Blu-Ray
Standard Sized HDMI out
2 eSATA HDD Bays
8GB max RAM
17" WXGA+ Widescreen (1440 x 900)
Near Full-Sized Keyboard and Full 10-Key

And apparently the M780G Chipset