Let's figure out how to make a DIY eGPU (previously DIY ViDock)

wow. when i first looked i thought it was a rip. ok cpu and bad card. But its good large drive, large ram capacity, esata and bluray ><. still 3 months warranty?

Hey Nando. Could you tell me your settings for RE5 when doing the tests. The xps1330 got a much lower score which i assumed they had max settings compared to yours

 

Re PCI-E 2.0 in RS780M or M780G chipsets:

AMD's 7 Series chipsets use SB7XX southbridges that all connect to northbridges at PCI-E 1.0 even though northbridges themselves are doing PCI-E 2.0.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-nvidia-chipset,1972-3.html
Same goes for Intel's 4 Series chips.

AMD's 8 Series chips are going to be using SB8XX southbridges that are PCI-E 2.0 capable but they aren't on sale until april/may next year.
Same goes for Intel's 5 Series chips except they are available to buy right now. (i had a post about this a few pages back)

ExpressPort 2.0 implies PCI-E 2.0 connection from southbridge.
ExpressCard 2.0 implies the above as well as a USB 3.0 port.

Re x2 mode with ICH6/7/8/9/10:

These southbridges are essentially the same in terms of PCI-E configuration:
- They all provide 6 PCI-E 1.0 ports.
- 1-4 can be arranged to do x4 - need to set registers according to datasheet
- 1-2 can be arranged to do x2 - need to set registers according to datasheet
- Port 6 is taken by ethernet(not in ICH6 or ICH7)

This gives you 5 ports to play with.
A laptop with "Optional WWAN" would generally have 3 ports available for end user - ExpressCard port, mPCI-e for Wi-Fi, mPCI-E for WWAN.
Some laptops have 3 mPCI-e slots (Wi-Fi, WWAN, UWB) plus 1 ExpressCard port = 4 ports for end user.
The more ports you have to play with - the more chance you have that 2 of these ports are "Port 0" and "Port 1".

In any case it is very easy to confirm without installing any extra tools:
1. Go to Device Manager
2. View -> Devices by Connection
3. Look for a few entries labeled "Intel(R) ...... PCI Express Root Port - ...X"
3a. You can see what's connected to a particular port by expanding these entries (only the ones that expand)

- If you have 2 of these entries with X=0 and X=1 - you're in luck.
- No luck in any other case...

 

good analysis toshiki.

my mpcie ports are 1,2,4,6. 1 is Wifi which is not aproblem. I don't think having different port orders matters for x2 right?

What is this thing you say, x4? we can only connect two times x1 ports using PE4H. X4 = two times pcie 2.0?

 

Good to hear. Do you have 2 mPCI-E Slots? Is port 6 - ethernet?

You would think that port order doesn't matter but southbridge datasheets say that you can only combine port 1 and port 2 to get x2 (not 3 or 4). Even then you'd have to actually set the registers correctly to enable it.
Same goes for x4 - only ports 1 to 4(not 5 or 6).
In your case x2 is possible, but not x4 and it is PCI-E 1.0.

 

yeah 6 is eth, 1 is wifi.
x4 is equiv to 8x pcie or only 4x pcie? in which for us regular mpcie 1.0 we need to connect FOUR TIMES Mpcie!?
since we're 'hacking' sorta here. what is the original reason for being allowed to combine two ports by the chipset designers?

you asked if i had 2 mpcie ports. Doesn't matter right? just 1 mpcie and 1 expressport is good right?

cheers

 

1. Unless you have a 5 Series Intel chip or 8 Series AMD chip - it is equivalent of x4 PCI-E 1.0
2. One scenario where x4 is possible is if you have 3 mPCI-E slots, 1 ExpressCard slot and all of them are Port 1 - Port 4 (not one of them is Port 5).
A different scenario is when you have 2 mPCI-E slots, 1 ExpressCard slot, an official docking station/port replicator with 1 ExpressCard slot or a desktop PCI-E x1 slot and all of these ports are Port 1 - Port 4 (not one is Port 5).

Some leg room for supposedly evolving and more bandwidth hungry external devices. Otherwise, god only knows.

Your WiFi is Port 1. If your ExpressPort is Port 4 - you can't use it for x2 - hence, you'd need to use your second mPCI-E slot(i assume you have 2 mPCI-E slots).
To check - plug something into your ExpressPort and check Device Manager (View -> Devices by connection).

 

I saw something interesting on my motherboard a while ago.
I just realised it's another miniPCIe port.

My tecra A9 has one of them, and my tecra M9 has 2 of them.

Here is what they look like:

 

wow that's rather impossible to set up

Lol yeah i guess

I will check if i have pcie soon. unfortunately i got no expresscards. ofcorse i was thinking of only getting pe4l for now anyway. p34h is really expensive atm and not 100% sure it'll work. If x2 is possible was thinking of doing wat nando said via soldering, however the chip looks rather small and difficult to actually solder. I haven't used since in school..

huh but what are you going to plug into that!?

 

It could be possible just to solder a graphics card straight to the points.

I don't want to try it with my tecra A9.
But when I get my M9 working, I might try it.

 

that's true. I think u mean mpcie card right? I found the same thing in my missus laptop just now.

and yay i do have 2x mpcie slots as shown here. Don't know what that changes though. didn't see hwtools create 3 slot pe4 card.

 

Those are miniPCIe card pins, and you can skip the PE4 and solder the graphics card directly to the pins.

 

Can you grab two everest screenshots like this, one with wifi card in mPCIe slot1 and one with mPCIe card in slot2? That will tell us what port number is which. I say that because it seems Intel wifi sets up a additional virtual port for communications making it not so easy to identify what is what.

Also, if your second mPCIe slot is a WWAN slot, there is high probability it just uses the USB pins, making it not a real mPCIe slot.

What a great find!! If it's the right port number then perhaps x2 mode is possible.

 

not sure if it has been posted, PE4H BACK IN STOCK, just placed my order...figure I might as well get the PE4H...

 

Should this make me happy or sad?

Device Manager:


Everest:

 

Hey Nando here is what Everest says for me::
Everest Image

Please take note that the North Bridge is selected not South.

Dammit, apparently I took too long to order... SOLD OUT

 

If anyone is made of money, I saw this on slickdeals. Pretty good if you are building a new desktop and want to also use the DIY Vidock (ironic I know) but you could use an old PSU for the DIY and the new one in your desktop, really good savings... Click Me

 

Radeon 5870 tested on 2.0 pci-e x1 x4 x8 and x16 which i think are the same as pci-e 1.0 x2 x8 x16 x32 http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_5870_PCI-Express_Scaling

 

Now HWTools shipping is $22!

thanks alot! that helps

we now know that we cannot use 3Dmark to benchmark the external cards. because it only puts it slightly lower at x1 vs. x16 which is obviosly not true looking at the fps

 

a lot of ports you got there, all in order too. i think you should be happy

damnit lucky you. you got PCIe 2.0! that's only ~20% degrade i think

woah. what kind of graphics card and how!? you're talking about regular laptop graphics card?

Will do. it's odd that i'm missing port #5. maybe #5 is my virtual one or my expresscard? here

good find. Running at x1 sucks.. hope PE4H comes at a practical price soon

 

Prices have gone up quite a bit. Is it because $US is softer versus other currencies. The discontinued PE2L was only US$35 with US$18 shipping. Only difference b/w it and the PE4L is it didn't have the USB connector.

We have had some contradictory statements about if those ports are PCI-E 2.0 or not. Only real definite is to test and see how you go. Everest's output is otherwise quite convincing to suggest your mPCIe wifi slot could be used in x1 2.0 mode, which would put a massive smile on your dial as seen by the HD5870 pci-e scaling . If you can afford the whole PE4H x2 kit, then why not? Could swing the dial in favor of AMD chipsets for DIY ViDock application.

The HD5870 pci-e scaling benchmarks presented are x1 2.0. That is the same performance as x2 1.0 you'd get on your system if connected the PE4H+EC2C+PM3N with port1+port2 in x2 mode on your ICH8M I/O chipset. The HD5870's x1 2.0 3dmark06 of 21911 is outstanding.

 

Oh that's true. however i'm mostly comparing the degrade in performance x1 in 1.0 or 2.0 vs x16 in that same pcie standard. as you can see it was 50% less fps (as you all speculated ages ago )
I believe x4 mode in their tests is equivalent to us using PE4H+EC2C+PM3N? in which there is only 20% degrade versus maximum lane performance?
If so then it would be highly worth the effort for near desktop performance

 

Re Confusion about PCI-E 1.0 or 2.0:

1. If Everest gives you PCI-E Root Ports coming out of NorthBridge - all of them would be PCI-E 2.0 regardless of your chipset.
If there are more Root Ports coming out of SouthBridge - they are all PCI-E 1.0 unless your chipset is 5 Series Intel or 8 Series AMD.

2. If Everest gives you PCI-E Root Ports coming out of SouthBridge - you have PCI-E 1.0 unless your chipset is 5 Series Intel or 8 Series AMD.

Correction on my Device Manager lookup comment:

Device Manager lists Root Ports as ...0 ...2 ...4 ...6 ...8 ... so if you have both ...0 and ...2 - you're in for x2 be it 1.0 or 2.0 (only applicable for SouthBridge Root Ports) - that is if you have physical access to them.

nerdyfred07,
Just plug your WiFi into the second mPCI-E slot and see what Root Port gets occupied and use everest to see if it's coming from NorthBridge or SouthBridge.
If it's Port 4 - then your ExpressCard is Port 2 so your x2 is going to work with mPCI-E Port 1 and ExpressCard Port 2 only
If it's Port 2 - then your x2 is going to work with mPCI-E Port 1 and mPCI-E Port 2 only

 

Oh, but if it's port 2 then couldn't i do mPCIe port 1 and exprescard port 4? like nando's dv2000 port layout?

 

nerdyfred07,

As per ICH6/7/8/9/10 datasheet (you have ICH8) - only Port 1 and Port 2 can be configured to do x2.
I don't remember dv2000 being run at x2 and as far as datasheets are concerned - it is not possible.

 

oh man i'm such a noob. nando has it and is trying but yeah he never got it to work. This diy vidock stuff has so much things to consider and know about. I keep forgetting one thing as i learn another ><

anyway nando trying to get it to work now as we speak, doing x2.

there's no problem with doing pe4L with 2 mpcie slots right? regardless of port number, if attempting x1 1.0 then expressport can be used on any port # right?

 

More Re Confusion about PCI-E 1.0 or 2.0:

1. Intel Chips - more than likely PCI-E 1.0 coming out of SouthBridge, unless you have a 5 or 3400 Series Chipset, in which case it is PCI-E 2.0.

2. AMD Chips - chances are there are some Root Ports coming out of NorthBridge - all PCI-E 2.0.
No info on Root Ports coming from SouthBridge.
No info so far on how to set them up to do x2.

3. Nvidia Chips - need to get more info - no info so far.

nerdyfred07,

hp dv2000 shouldn't be able to do x2
hp 2510 should be able to do x2

 

A desktop card.

Basically the points I show in the picture are where a miniPCIe card slot would usually be soldered to.

The PE4 is just an adapter, it really does nothing.

You should be able to skip the PE4 and solder straight to the motherboard.

 

oh yeah i understand that, but how can you fit a massive desktop card into that. i mean i'm definitely missing something here. Please share

 

I was just saying that some notebooks may have extra miniPCIe ports that can be used to get a 2x connection.

 

just checked. this is what i got. port 4
so i can/should get x2 1.0 using port 1 and 2.

However after going to switch it back i noticed the wifi card was rather Hotter than it was originally. even the screws seemed hot. I think the culprit was this

so not sure the longevity of this solution on my wifi card.

oh im thinking you meant this

sorry never thought of doing it that way. Interesting solution for only 1x !!! THOUGH.

wish i understood better what you meant by the cables etc. Would have to see it to do ><

 

Your BenQ S41 has mPCIe=port1, mPCIe=port4. We don't know what port number your expresscard slot is. However, since you have a port2 enabled by default by the bios, it is likely the expresscard slot. If so, you can link port1+port2 to get a x2 mode using the PE4H-EC2C+PM3N+PCIEM-100. Just make sure your bios has any expresscard port options, if any, enabled to confirm that all the relevant ports are switched on. For absolute confirmation, install a test expresscard (did you want this AU$20 short expresscard e-sata card?) and see if it comes up under port2.

 

Hi. I know it's been a while since i updated my problem but here we go:

No response from PE4L what so ever in any way (tried 4 laptops now with 4670).
My main laptop is a Sony vaio vgn-fw21e.

I wrote HWTOOLS about the problem after i troubleshooted in this thread.

they wrote:

Code:

PE4L designed for x1 PCIe add on card. Insert X4, X8, X16 can’t be detected and no power.

So please insure assembly well and  don’t use X4, X8, X16 card.

If you have any question, please let me know.

and:

Code:

Why don’t  you try it by insert X1 card.

NO power before insert X1 card, so the LED can’t be lighted.

I then found an old x1 sound card which i tried to plug in but still no response. Wrote back to hwtools that I was starting to get pretty sure that the PE4L was the one giving me problems and now they haven't replied for a few days.

I bought a multimeter for another project if that can help me conclude something?

what should I do?

 

ooo, not bad, wouldn't mind adding esata for future use. there wouldn't be any other way to practically add a esata port so might be worth it. here. although i did just buy a optical caddy for a hdd

cheers

 

Check if PE4L is getting 3.3V - if so, then just the LEDs are stuffed. From PE4L schematic.



1/ Ensure JP4 jumper is closed.
2/ Put your +ve probe in the closed JP4 jumper so it's touching the metal
3/ Put your -ve probe on one of the two middle GND points on your 4-pin molex power supply connector.
4 / Connected PE4L-EC2C to system and connect cable to PE4L. Ensure nothing is in the pci-e slot.
5/ Power up your system.
6/ See what voltage reading the multimeter provides.

If don't get 3.3V on your multimeter, then need to trace back the 3.3V via the mini HDMI cable. Unless you can confirm the expresscard works, it could even be your notebook.

Can probe pin 17 or pin 18 coming from the HDMI cable out of the EC2C (from expresscard port), but be *very careful* to not short anything. Those pins are very small. If you do get 3.3V then the LEDs are faulty and can just continue testing the PE4L, suggest using PCI Config IMG/RAR file in the DIY ViDock - My experiences so far. Running 'atiflash -ai' in DOS will tell you if a ATI card is seen on the PCI-e bus.

I' be quite surprised if there was some sort of manufacturing defect by hwtools. I have 2xPE4L's. DV2000 using PE4L+EC2C. 2510P using PE4L+PM3N. Neither has had any problem whatsoever. The PE4H works too though I prefer the PE4L's smaller footprint for the time being until I have a system capable of using PE4H in x2 mode. So 3 out of 3 is pretty good quality statistics.

 

How'd you go with your attempt of soldering your own mpcie to graphics card?

ps: if we use a PSU to power a graphics card that requires external 4pin molex. Do we still need to power the PE4* unit with a floppy cable?

edit: my results for RE5 variable benchmark. here and fixed.

 

The FedEx guy could've played football with it and mayb now some tracks do not have contact

What will happen if you short TP1?

 

ICH7M I/O equipped DV2000 has port1=expressport, port4=mPCIe port. Connecting them both to the PE4H's lane1 and lane2 respectively does not work. ICH7M datasheet only says it can do x1 or x4. Final possibility that I've justed tested is:

- Using PM3N - solder IDE cable b/w it and lane4 on the HD4670
- Force x4 mode in DOS prior to OS loading
- enable port1-port4, disable all ports except port1 (x4 port), try various permutations.

The idea was to try x4 mode, with only lane1 and lane4 connected. The response -> NOT working. Numerous software settings tried but to no avail. Looks like need port1 and port2 for ICH8M or newer x2 link speed.

Confirmed. DV2000 can't do x2 link mode. 2510P has 1 wifi-mPCIe, 1 WWAN-mPCIe and no expresscard port. The WWAN is a mystery.. it appears to be USB only though HP may have whitelisted that as well.. HP tell me the WWAN port is not electrically connected even though my probing it suggests otherwise. I'm investigating more to see if perhaps if can be somehow enabled.

My understanding is the the graphics cards split their power requirements

- pci-e slot: up to 75W
- extra power via 75W/150W 6/8-pin pci-e power connectors

Since PE4* provides the pci-e slot's up-to-75W it would need to get power either via the DC jack or the molex connector. A HD4670 just needs 75W.

 

What happens after setting correct values from pages 282-283 of ICH8 datasheet?
Not sure if USB would still work in x2 mode.

 

Has anyone decided to use a 9600gt card? it's much better than the 4670 for around the same price. wouldn't getting the most you can get be the best for diy vidock?

 

It seems ATI cards work better with the restricted bandwidth.

So the 4670 could actually do better than a 9600gt in our setup.

I'm not sure if it was tested though, maybe if someone has a desktop with the 9600gt they could do a test for us?

 

Tomshardware did a test in 2007 with different pci-e speeds, nvidia sucked at x1 and i assume it's the same with all their generations of cards. I guess that's why there are no 8xxx+ GeForce AGP cards XD (at least i couldn't find any)
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pci-express-scaling-analysis,1572.html

and this looked like ATI's diy vidock http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=7995

 

lol true. I guess they chose the 4670 for a specific reason. however for the agp remark, i think they stopped making because didn't want to target that market anymore. All the agp cards aren't even powerful. all old cards sold now.

Have heard of those ati and asus ideas for external graphics. They're taking much toolong and now the market has been stolen. Anyway they don't need it.

 

Has anyone been able to chainload the pcitool to load Leopard/Snow Leopard?

 

agp 4670 is just a little bit worse than 4670 pci-e http://www.viperlair.com/reviews/hi...hdmi-1gb-128bit-ddr3-agp/left-4-dead-dx9.html

 

Hey guys dont have enough time to read through this whole 80 pages of stuff. Can you tell me if you guys actually made your vidock. Thanks

 

Yes, can be done. See here for confirmation. Though Leopard may be smarter in reassigning PCI Bridge window resources. Linux does it for me, WinXP/Win7 need the pcitool+chainloading workaround.

 

yeah always has been. I used to own a 7300GT agp. not as good as the pcie and more expensive!
Glad atleast atistill makes AGP however i'm super glad i moved away from AGP. so worth it!

 

Thats really not bad at all considering the card has to use a PCIE-AGP bridge which will slow performance a slight amount.

 

Wait, there are PCIe to AGP converters?

 

not much has been happening on this topic lately lol.

anyway for whoever who has a PE4, does the internal laptop graphics(integrated or dedicated) turn off or are we able to turn it off while using the external?