AMD, where art thou?

Maybe so, but the game still runs like aids today. Like, Crysis 3 runs better than Crysis 1 on my system. And it looks MUCH better too, even though I know Crysis 1 is far more open world.

Also, I didn't know CDPR did Crysis 1? O_O

 

My mistake. Developer was crytek, not CDPR

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

 

Crysis 1 is actually pushing a lot of draw calls and being an old game it's dual-core CPU optimized. GPUs have gotten sufficiently fast enough since 2007 that the the GPU is usually not the main bottleneck in Crysis anymore like it was say from 2007-2009.

It's like saying why does Morrowind/Oblivion run worse than Skyrim, or why does Witcher 1 run worse than Witcher 2, on modern hardware. Sometimes it's just the software limitations of old APIs and game engines.

 

There's still no beating FSX when it comes to being CPU limited. I think someone once said to max out everything in that game (including traffic density, the big killer), you'd need a CPU capable of 10GHz single threaded rofl.

 

Look on the bright side - you only need a single or a dual core CPU for FSX .

 

Goddamnit Intel, where's my Pentium 5

 

I think I found it!


Lol, at 8GHz I think that machine need moar RAMz.

 

Download moar RAMz

 

Thanks, will come in handy for Star Wars Battlefront

 

Uhmmm, that's DDR3, Pentium 5 requires DDR5...

 

_______________________________________

Great question, but the answer I think lies within the financial component here with regards to how much investment capital, financing, and courage they have to go all out in pursuit of this endeavor. AMD is hemorrhaging money, and is on very shaky ground.
I think that the have resigned themselves towards finding their niche in the console market and low-grade cheapy laptops that they can push on HP to sell on QVC and Home Shopping Network, while leaving the heavy duty Enthusiast gaming market to Nvidia and Intel.
The best and most cost-effective solution for AMD is to seek a merger with Samsung to stay alive and be viable.

 

Sweet, I just got me a hundred gigabytes of RAM.

I'm not counting them out until we see their 14 nm, HBM2 GPUs, and their 14 nm Zen CPUs next year. There's no question their financial position is not great, and that Carrizo is stopgap, but there's reason to believe next year's launches could be legitimately compelling. And while they may be up a creek without a paddle if they aren't, so far indications have been they have enough reserves to make it to those launches and awhile past them without imploding 3dfx-style first.

And it sort of makes sense why they wouldn't invest a whole lot in a response now. HBM1 in a laptop would be great - but it's next years launches that will really make or break them, so it's there that they should focus. No sense investing a ton in an end-of-the-line 28nm GPU - the desktop Furies have already shown that HBM can work, and that there's reason to believe in it for next year. If they can pull off mobile HBM before next year without sacrificing the quality of next year's, all the better, but I'd rather have them do a 14 nm HBM2 mobile GPU right than a 28 nm HBM1 mobile GPU this year and a less-than-great HBM2 one next year.

 

4

Concur here. While individual profit margins are there in the high-end notebook GPU market, volume is not, so they're going to focus on the low-end notebook and desktop market. They're stuck now with a relatively power-hungry/hot top-end desktop chip that cannot be adapted to a mobile GPU, and introducing a cut-down chip e.g. Fury Pro Junior doesn't seem like the it would be competitive at all. And unfortunately the math doesn't add up for them to be able to survive long enough to get a mobile 14nm HBM2 out (although I sincerely hop this happens)

I'm willing to bet they're going to ride Pitcairn and Tonga into the sunset

 

*quickly checks trademark availability*

 

Just unsolder those (G)DDR5 chips from your 970. I mean one of the 8 chips is going to waste anyway so why not.

 

Because you killed Kenny you bastard!

 

But...I am Kenny...

 

Man, I don't know why more people don't buy AMD when their cards do stuff like this...

 

Probably because at those speeds its TDP is also 1.21 jiggawatts

 

please, AMD's working on efficiency right? Who needs HBM which can barely overclock? Look at DEM GIGABYTES

 

Arctic Islands reportedly 2x performance per watt - is that going to be enough to compete with Pascal?

http://wccftech.com/amd-next-genera...s-double-performance-watt-current-generation/

 

performance per watt is deceiving

 

Over fiji? Sure. That's great. If you could sell me a Fury X that requires under 150W on average... imagine what you could shove into a MXM card. Then imagine what a 250W-300W card will perform like.

Over Hawaii? No.

I keep saying it though: AMD needs an *ENTIRELY* new line of cards. No Hawaii, no Fiji, no Pitcairn, no Tonga. None. Scrap it all. Take the tech you need, incorporate it into your Arctic Islands, then just move on.

We have no midrange cards and no cards that can be shoved into a mobile sector from team Red.

 

In recent news they are letting out people, top tier figures leave and yet another quarter down. I don't know about you, but for me this sounds like a massive lack of money. Do tell how one is going to make a new architecture without funds?

I said it before and I'll say it again - Fury was their life vest, it's all down from now on. If (almost) no one was convinced that Fury is a good buy, how would the next gen be any different? People would find yet another excuses to not buy it.

 

_____________________________________________________

The 7970m was a bad card for the most part, as many like myself saw it die within a year of use, and then seek a replacement for it.
It was even delayed for several months due to production problems creating bad cards. Even when GF pumped out the replacement cards, they were still crap, as a great many cards died soon after, like mine did.
That is not even including the bad and slow driver support, and Enduro, which wasn't working for anyone for about a year after launch.

 

Why would anyone (in his right mind) pay more money for less performance and VRAM?

AMD has enough money in the bank to keep bleeding for a few more quarters, but if Zen flops the company is done for.

 

_________________________________________________

As I have said many times here, the ONLY way AMD survives to 2017 is if they seek a merger with Samsung. They need Billions in capital to remain afloat, and without someone coming in and providing that for them, they are going to be DOA within 24 months, barring a complete miracle.
They had best hope that Fury/Zen is going to be the straw that stirs the drink.
We desperately NEED AMD to not just survive but THRIVE. It's good for competition, it's good for business, and it's good for the consumer.

 

They seem to have been in a decline for a long time. Their gross margin has been in the mid-20s while Nvidia and Intel are both around 60%.

Reportedly, AMD will do the processor and graphics unit for Nintendo's next console, and there is another rumor they are manufacturing a custom processor for Apple: http://www.bitsandchips.it/52-english-news/6183-apple-could-use-custom-x86-soc-made-by-amd

 

Those would be good wins if they can get a decent margin from them.

 

Exaggerating a bit? I know that overclocking is not something to be overlooked, and actually I'm one of these who say "Who's running stock", but there are people, with money, that do run stock and NEVER overclock. Paying more is not exactly correct, the price is the same. As for the performance, again - (more or less) tie. VRAM - for a single GPU solution, I don't see it as such a problem. So, if the user is not going to overclock it and would run single, is it really that bad GPU? "Yeah, but futureproofing, you know 8Gigs and all." Which is the future technology, the that is going to be used by all? For which technology games are going to be optimized?

You have access to their bank account?

No, no, no, HELL NO. I'd rather see great company bankrupt, than been bought or even merge with gnusmas (or Microshaft for that matter) and become POS. No, thank you. I shiver when I think about it. Also, I read that Lisa Su is not looking into mergers, so we're safe here.

That's what I was talking about, don't know how the above user decided that they can keep bleeding money, considering they have never had them by the warehouses, like grIntel and nGreedia do.

I don't know how much money they make from the PC market now (I would guess none, that's including the investments involved), but even with small margins they would do better. That's my guess, but someone with their bank account access can shed more light on the matter.

 

How is AMD going to merge with anyone when the only reason that Intel lets them produce processors in the first place is because they mutually benefit from each other's tech? AMD licenses x86 from Intel and Intel licenses AMD64 after their IA64 was a total failure. Any mergers that give AMD a chance to compete with Intel would surely cause Intel to revoke their right to use Intel x86 tech and ARM cannot compete with x86, PowerPC is dead... Intel won the x86 battle and every computer sold with an Intel or AMD chip is shipped with that cross-licensing... It would be a huge issue for Intel if AMD got access to Samsung's foundry... There's no way they would let that happen.

As for Fury? My prediction is they will do a direct die shrink and further optimize GCN. AMD painted themselves extremely well for DX12 and with Microsoft's literal virus-style system invasion with Windows 10, AMD just needs to add two features and shrink Fury and they have a full blown DX12 card that cost them nothing but the die shrink itself as it's almost certain that they have already been tweaking Fiji XT for the features that they're missing and getting the tape outs ready to spin. NVidia is playing catch up with DX12 while DX12 was basically handed to AMD since it integrates Mantle tech that AMD has supported for years.

 

Spoiler: I started typing this at 6:30am, took a break for breakfast (dinner, I don't sleep, come at me) and then continued typing and it's 7:41am and I am now finished. Click at own risk

Due to monopoly and anti-trust laws, intel is not allowed to revoke that licensing no matter what AMD does. In fact, if AMD died right this second, they would HAVE to be bailed out, like how Microsoft bailed Apple out back in 1994. AMD would have to create something in the same power class working with Samsung to be allowed to compete.

I'm keeping my original points about GCN in place here. I recommend AMD a lot more these days, yes, but it's more because nVidrosoft screwed up maxwell BAD and AMD is actually trying. If the 970 was a flat out 224-bit, 3.5GB vRAM card without any controversy, for example, I'd probably be telling people to buy that left and right instead of R9 390s. But I digress... there's things about GCN that when GCN was launched weren't a problem but has since become a problem that AMD has not even addressed with Fiji.

- GCN is hot and power hungry. Even if Fiji has improved significantly, it's still at best closer to Kepler in power drain. Maxwell's voltage adjustments are crap and unstable, but even forcing to a constant has them draw mostly less power than GCN will. Even @n=1 forcing his 970s to a constant high-ish voltage with OCs getting 224W power draw under load doesn't mean jack when the similarly powered R9 390 draws more power at stock and generates more heat. We need AMD to improve solidly on this (though the leaks about power efficiency improvements show that Arctic Islands are on the right track). Heat for the most part will follow lower TDP too. Architecture is architecture, but there is no way on the planet a card drawing 250W is going to run cooler than a card drawing 150W.
- GCN and tessellation do not mix. We don't need it to be as good as Maxwell does it, but even Kepler was a lot better than GCN (hence why I said problems only showed up after GCN's launch).
- GCN is not a great overclocker. This in itself doesn't mean too much for a card. Most users statistically will never overclock. But overclocking is still a big thing, and quite a few people look to do it after having their cards for a couple years to stretch the time before buying a new one. Kepler did it better and Maxwell is basically at the point where every card can easily expect a +300MHz boost, and I'm counting laptops in this too. It doesn't make sense if a +120MHz is causing a card to shut down like my friend's R9 290 was doing. I am not joking when I say he spent DAYS trying to overclock that thing as far as it could possibly go and remain stable in Unigine Heaven because he was annoyed that my laptop was beating his desktop. And at the very least, he's better of an overclocker than I am, so it isn't really user error in that case.
- GCN has no currently available midranged cards. This is a very new problem. You might think that I'm wrong by looking at their lineup, but in nVidrosoft's terms, what AMD has basically done is make a lineup like "Titan X --> 980Ti --> Titan Black --> Titan --> GTX 760". Since the card in the 760 slot (aka the R9 380) is essentially an entry-level midranged card, the next jump is to last-gen's top-end cards. Along with the power, size and heat that come with it. nVidrosoft have their own tier problems which I rip them to shreds about often enough, but AMD suffers from similar issues too and I can't give them a free pass about it.
- GCN has no suitable card for the mobile market anymore due to the above point. Anything they could make is too hot, too power hungry. Coolers on a desktop can fix that, but laptops can't do the same, and power bricks have not advanced in ages. It's not hard to match a GTX 980M to a R9 390 or beat it.

Arctic Islands *NEEDS* to address all of these issues. It's not a suggestion, it's a requirement. And AMD needs to fix their drivers. Properly. There's a stigma attached to them that is taking its sweet time going away, but right now it's more that nVidrosoft simply passed AMD on the way down, rather than AMD climbed up. Cards cannot launch with Crossfire frametime issues. Crossfire needs to start working in Windowed modes. People can't be having random crashes in games for no reason (which HAS been happening to a few people). CCC needs to not use Raptr for its VCE recording function. CCC needs a way to force a GPU to hold its max clockspeeds. My same friend with the R9 290 has ENDLESSLY made noise about how his Payday 1 game and some other older games run like absolute ass on his system, because they're so weak his card keeps downclocking to save power and it stutters when it needs to clock up for a heavier scene. Frametimes need to not be a thing unless a game REALLY just is that badly optimized.

The way I see it, nVidrosoft can feel free to run themselves into the gutter as much as they want. But at the end of the day, if AMD and nVidrosoft offer basically the same thing for the same price, nVidrosoft is more known and has a history of "good" where AMD has a history of "trouble". The people here and on /r/pcmr and on LTT and on OCN all combined are not even a drop in the bucket compared to how many people actually buy cards and play. Almost every single person I've met on twitch and through twitter (related to twitch people in some way, usually) don't go on forums. Don't look around and ask what's best. Don't even consider building their own systems and will gladly get CyberpowerPC or iBuyPower or OriginPC to do it. And they're going for nVidrosoft. Almost every last one of them simply "knows" that nVidrosoft is less worry. And while this year has proven that they ARE just as much or more worry, let's be honest... they could clean up their act in exactly two weeks starting RIGHT NOW, release a driver with only core updates for games and technology added from 347.88's base, add SLI-toggling for laptops and cancel GFE-only driver updates. They COULD. They're not going to, but the fact is they COULD. It's not hard for them. Not at all. They can reverse every single inch of bad karma going on with them right here. But AMD can't do the same. They can't just plop down and say "okay, November's catalyst beta driver is going to fix all the crashes people are getting. We know what we added that's causing them and we're gonna remove it and add new code to do the same thing. We've got our game profiles and stuff ready. We're gonna start releasing multi-GPU profiles whenever a big title comes out. No more Raptr for recording either because Raptr conflicts with things on enough peoples' systems that it should be optional. Let's do it guys! Ei! Ei! Ou!". It won't work, they need to do way too much to get that in place.

When they've gotten themselves to a point where most of these tech forums and laptop users are seeing AMD all over, then the general public starts to hear word of mouth. "What did you get?" "I got the R9 480X it runs EVERYTHING on max and it's only like $250 you should get it!" "Really? I dunno... I prefer nVidia" "Nah I've got no problems with this man. trust me, this thing is the tits!". Then AMD'll build back market share. That's really the problem here. AMD cannot afford to be slack. They have to be on their better-than-best while charging less and both BGAtel and nVidrosoft have the ability to be lackadaisical. "Who cares if our new CPUs get beat by our last gen that sold maybe 25 CPUs because we delayed it so long? Nobody has a choice, we don't make the old standard anymore! And nobody cares about high performance laptops either, they all just say to get a desktop!" - BGAtel. "Man we keep living on vacation while those five interns keep using that ManuelG account on our forums promising all sorts of stuff. Sora does half his work for him, I'm so glad we told those mods never to ban that fanboy! Look at them 970s go, man. I'm so glad we don't have to write a driver to lock out that crippling vRAM design because of marketing, but I never expected we could lie about the specs on our page and nobody's sued us yet! Ahh, life is good!" *sips pina colada out of coconut while "working" on a beach in hawaii* "It's so ironic too, here I am chillin in Hawaii, the island named after those AMD cards that they thought would save them from us." - nVidrosoft. "Look at all those people using Windows 10! I sure am glad we got those gamers to upgrade, they're a problematic lot. Locking DX12 to this OS for no reason was genius!" - Micro$haft. And Micro$haft doesn't even have anything to do with this arguement! But they're still evil bastardly cow-goats!

 

That's what I'm saying for a few years now - nGreedosoft has to REAAAALLY screw-up for people to even consider AMD. Then again they'll ask to be cheaper too, while having better performance.

In defense to GCN - you usually overclock to compensate for the lower performance, but GCN goes well at higher res, so less need for compensation. Of course not really a solution, if you want to see a high percentage increase in clocks, but just to show the other side of the coin.

I highly doubt that Arctic Islands is going to clear all checkpoints, hence I said - why the next gen would be any different. It would still miss a thing or two, people would whine to the hell and back and yet another low sales for what is supposed to be savior. Yeah, pretty bright future. On the other side nGreedosoft would still do whatever they like as it is apparent week after week after week after week.

People buy nGreedosoft and grInBGAtel just because they heard it from a friend, who has a nephew, who's friend is into games, and his uncle built him a PC and said this is the parts you want, or something like that, i.e. - Word of mouth. This is going for DECADES!!! People still think that AMD CPUs would catch fire! Good luck beating that. I really don't know how this damage can be undone. Also have you ever tried, just for the experiment, to go out and "buy" a new laptop. Trust me, they'll pull you off from the AMD offerings the second you ask for advice. And I've tried this in a couple of countries... It's tragic. What? Modern day AMDs can't run a browser with a single tab, which runs Dumbook and Spyke running on background. I seriously doubt it, yet no one would say, yep that would be fine for you. Instead, they try to sell you grInBGAtel, which is almost twice as expensive, and could be a bit faster, but would it matter?

Problem fixing requires money and people. I'll pull a wild guess and say that AMD is really short on money and do I need to repeat myself on people?

People recommending AMD? Even with most of the 2015 behind us, full of green goo, I still can't see how that is going to be a thing.

That was one of the reasons stated in the material I red - basically it's complicated (if a merge occurs).

AMD didn't dropped Mantle and support DX12 for no reason Although I would've loved Mantle to continue its existence, because W7 + low-CPU-overhead, that's why. I hate W10, even though I wasted a W7 activation to get that free license. I'm on an older machine, so spare me Would use it for games only, and not all of them.

 

Sounds like a whole lot of excuses.

Oh it overclocks much worse, but it doesn't matter.

Oh it's 10% slower for the same price, but it doesn't matter.

Oh it's got 1/3 less VRAM, but it doesn't matter.

Oh it doesn't have HDMI 2.0 or DP 1.3, but it doesn't matter.

Oh it requires a free 120mm rad mount, but it doesn't matter.

 

Not that I disagree but damn octiceps I've never seen you harp this hard on AMD before

While I regret clicking the spoiler button, this ultimately turned out to be a good read. A+ 10/10 would read again.

 

Maybe I'm sick of their incompetence. And of people making excuses for them or blaming the consumer for AMD's own failures.

This is still as relevant as it was 3 years ago.

 

Yeah. I've spent a lot of time being hard as Dark Souls on NG+++++++ with a level 1 character on AMD. And they've deserved every single iota of it.

I've spent a great deal of time praising nVidrosoft. And they've deserved every single iota of it.

Now, I spend a great deal of time bashing nVidrosoft because they've proven themselves worse than anyone could have thought, and they deserve it.

I still bash AMD, but there is little chance or reason to. nVidrosoft is so terrible in comparison with its lineup that AMD is looking like a saint. It doesn't mean they need to rest on their laurels. It is what it is.

But for the love of meowmix, I wish they'd just pull themselves together. Both of them.

 

The one thing I don't get in the slightest is why AMD's drivers are so bad.

The Fury X should obliterate the Titan X, period. On paper it is the better GPU. It's absolutely mind-boggling how they're able to create a GPU that can do 8.6 teraflops (!!), yet can't design decent drivers for their products.

 

Well there's the famous AMD DX11 CPU overhead, which is why AMD GPUs are typically better at higher resolutions where you become more GPU bound. If you look through any review, you'll see the performance delta vs nVidia cards shrink as you go from 1080p to 1440p to 4K. At 4K is where AMD cards really shine since they achieve parity or even pull ahead of nVidia's cards in most cases. This is also why AMD so heavily promotes 4K (and DX12, but that's another story entirely).

As for Fiji (Fury X) specifically, the popular opinion is that it's limited by ROP throughput, since it has 45% more shaders compared to Hawaii (290X) yet has the same ROP count at 64. You'll find dissenting opinions and currently there's no one concrete answer, and most of it is far too technical and just flies right over my head.

 

Well, the primitive DX12 benchmarks that we've seen so far do seem to indicate that AMD cards will really shine with the new API, but I doubt that AMD would skimp on drivers right now just to put the extra work into developing for DX12. Wouldn't completely rule it out though.

As for the ROP argument...eh, I don't think that's a huge factor, and certainly not enough to account for the 5-10% performance disparity. Especially since it has more TMUs and shading units.

EDIT: I should mention, I too am not one for the specific technicalities of GPUs. Just a disclaimer.

 

Ofc they do. That's the point of low-level APIs--to reduce CPU overhead. Nvidia put in the work back with 337.50 to make their DX11 driver basically as efficient as Mantle. That's why Nvidia sees less gains going from DX11 to DX12, because their DX11 driver was already well ahead of AMD's. But AMD has to wait until DX12/Vulkan to see the true potential of their GPUs because their DX11 drivers are inefficient and consume way more CPU time.

 

What you do when you have a problem? You solve it. How? Now that's the tricky part. You either throw people and/or money at it and you fix the current problem, OR you come with a completely different solution. Granted it also costs money and people, but then you take into account how it's going to be in the long run. So here we have a terrible DX11 driver (what AMD's drivers are), and what they did - Mantle. They had a HUGE overhead and decided to remove it altogether. Now this is part of DX12 and Vulcan. Oh, and this is called innovation - something better than the existing solutions and that everyone can benefit of.

As for these expensive GPUs - of course people are happily buying 970s like there's no tomorrow (and not only (a much more expensive ex-flagship comes to mind), but who cares, right), but OH NOES, God forbid to buy anything but perfect AMD, or AMD altogether for that matter.

People who love to bash, obviously haven't done anything by themselves in their life, but rather go and buy a readily available solution, and then just get the newer version the next year. When you built something you realize how much it actually takes to just come with the idea! THEN come the money throwing. THEN comes the building. THEN comes EVEN MORE money throwing... And so on and so on. You can see how quickly your calculations can change. In the middle of the project you can come up with a better idea, or even scrap the whole project and start from a scratch. These are things that you have to experience in order to just have a guessing point how things work on a larger scale... It's NOT for narrow minded though.

 

I don't care at all about HBAM not being overclocked because it's good enough already and most people don't overclock.
I don't care about "only" 4GB of memory because 4GB is already more than you need and GTX 970 somehow lives with their 3.5GB of RAM where after optimizations almost no game stutters on them.

I am awaiting for AMD MXM cards with HBM for a looong time already. let's hope that nvidia won't be first with their HBM2 on MXM.

 

Mark my words, they will be. If they change the design and let AMD put an HBM chip in MXM-B format (because IT WILL FIT), this not only would steal their thunder, but would make them laughable. Why? Look at the monstrosities that "desktop" 980 PCBs are. It would be rather embarrassing to match the performance of a bigger GPU. I said it before - you can fit an HBM chip AND the widely advertised "up to 6 power phases" in MXM-B form factor.

 

FIFY.

 

There you go again, making excuses for why AMD can't get its sh*t together to fix its DX11 driver. Nvidia did, and is also working on DX12 and Vulkan. Is Nvidia's driver team really that much more talented than AMD's? Probably. Look at the sorry state of AMD's OpenGL driver for years dating back as long as I remember. Heck I still remember when GeForce FX was getting obliterated in DX9 games but still held its own in Doom 3 and even beat comparable Radeons because of the superiority of Nvidia's OpenGL driver.

AMD's abandonment of its DX11 user base is a cop-out, not innovation. Just like them never fixing CrossFire frame pacing in DX9 is a cop-out. DX11 is the majority of the install base and will remain for years to come as long as M$ keeps giving people reasons not to upgrade to W10. Not to mention, AMD's own DX11-class 5000 and 6000 series don't even support DX12, while Fermi does, so all those owners of older AMD cards will be stuck with their inefficient DX11 driver. So Nvidia is the default choice for me and similar-minded people who plan to ride out W7 until 2020. Because Nvidia's DX11 driver is efficient enough that DX12 won't be a huge performance improvement on a balanced hardware config (neither CPU nor GPU overpowers the other), and I can simply turn up the eye candy if needed to increase GPU boundedness.

 

And there you go again as well. I didn't said it's a perfect solution, but it is a solution done with the least amount of resources - both money and man power. OK older GPUs are left behind, I'll leave it at that since you'll jump on me once again. Do you know how many employees each company has? It's a minute job to check for both companies and don't forget that this number includes AMD's processors team and that 500 of them were recently released. I guess that should answer all of your questions about drivers, drivers fixing, older devices driver support, research, development and general man power on tap. I'd pull a wild one and say that nGreedia has almost twice as much people focused on the same thing (GPUs and software support). I support AMD, because at least for now, they haven't forgot about people and most of their tech is towards people (every big company was once founded by a few and risen to the highest, or where it is, by a few and then some more, and can be bring "on its place" in case it loses its mind by a few as well) Of course, not everything is perfect, but here comes the thing I said about projects and doing something by yourself - you'll see that rarely anything turns out the way you wanted it, or costing the money you were expecting it to, or "the best" case - both - its not what you wanted and it costs a small fortune. So I do understand that things can get ugly and hope that they'll be fixed, You can do only that much with the given amount of resources. On the other side, the Green Goblin, seems that forgot his roots. Why I hate him/them so much lately - intentional intervention (lack of better word). I hope that I don't have to elaborate and you are not so blind, but GREED is written all over it. I do understand though, everyone lacks money - some for bread, some for TV, some for house, some for airplane... "our" guy seems to lack money for a planet, or two.

I don't plan on giving up on W7 either and would play most of the games on it. I have a W10 just in case that my old CPU shows its age AND W10 can actually provide a performance boost. I do count on more Vulcan titles though.

 

Instead of giving practical reasons why one should buy AMD or Nvidia, you're expounding on all this background moral/ethical nonsense that nobody actually thinks about when they're out GPU shopping. Nobody gives a crap about any of that. Consumers are inherenty self-serving. They buy whatever is within their budget with the best performance and features, or at least I hope they do. Buying inferior products because they have an AMD logo on them, urging others to do the same, and discrediting those who don't share the same twisted view--isn't that the definition of hypocrisy and fanboyism? If anything, your extreme emotional attachment to AMD and visceral hatred for Nvidia turns people off. Perhaps think about taking a more moderate and logical stance, then more people might actually listen to you and support your views. And besides, is consumer electronics worth foaming at the mouth and getting so worked up over? This is not about who you're voting for President, or your gun stance, or your views on racial profiling and police brutality.

 

Well now. You came by and said that AMD is incompetent. I took some time to explain to you why they actually aren't. Now you obviously don't like my explanation and try to derail yet again. Sorry, but the incompetent here seems obvious to me at least. Your persistence also could be qualified as fanboism. You are first to call someone like that (and already called me, but it was deleted), in order to avoid you being called - the attack is the best defense. I can make you a short list of what I hate most in nGreedia, and what actually tipped my scales, but it wont (seem to) matter in the end. Have a nice life.