ATI 5000HD details leak -UPDATED

there is just not enough room, volts and watts on the board at present time...those vregs seem to need there own set of heat sinks as it is. since they seem to get far hotter than the gpu it self..in the dt version..they can get as high as 150c. pretty much melting any laptop plastic bottom or major major major stuttering and slow downs

 

If you're interested with my NBLB2 review and the mobile HD5 lineup specs, have a look at http://translate.google.com/transla...i_mobility_radeon_hd5000?page=0,0&sl=pl&tl=en
Cheers

 

Thanks bagienny.
I also have made a question about battery life saving charging tool here: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=448846

Anything you can say about that please do in that thread.

 

http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,...roduced-DirectX-11-from-AMD-for-laptops/News/

 

One interesting and disturbing thing is that HD5650 available so far has core clock of 600MHz while AMD charts state that core clocks for 56xx/57xx are up to 650MHz.
How to they intend to squeeze 4 cards in to 50MHz gap? I understand GDDR5 will make a difference but still...
I mean- we supposedly have 5650, 5730, 5750 and 5770 (according to notebookcheck) - where would be any significant performance difference? Remember that 4650 was 550MHz while 4670 was 675MHz
And keep in mind that Compal KHLB2 that was first to introduce HD 4650 had higher than default GPU core clock of 600MHz (instead of 550MHz) so I wouldn't be surprised if it was also the case with NBLB2.
Nothing is clear for now.

 

I like to see this kind of headlines

ATI Mobility HD 5870 is quite fast

 

It might be that GPU-Z read the clocks incorrectly. Second posibility is:
5650 - 600 MHz core, 800 Mhz mem GDDR3
5730 - 650 MHz core, ??? MHz mem GDDR3
5750 - 650 MHz core, 1200 (?) MHz GDDR5

 

I agree, however there is still no place for 5770- although it's not confirmed that it even exists. But still 5730 would be marginally faster than 5650. The gap between 4650 and 4670 was 125MHz while here it would be only 50MHz- even faster memory wouldn't make much difference.
My guess is that default core freq for 5650 is 550MHz and Compal just slightly overclocked it. That would be unfortunate though- other notebooks would not only be slower because of the card but also because of the CPU- as I don't expect to see HD5650 paired with Core i7 very often.

 

what may be the case here as well....
that some of these correspond to embedded and others are user replaceable...
this might account for some of the confusion...(speculation of course)

 

There will be no 5770.

 

I guess it wouldn't make sense but notebookcheck refers to some slides that in turn refer to HD5757 that is supposedly 5770 (probably AMD slides).
Still too cramped in that department- 5650 will probably go mainly with DDR3 like in that Compal. 5730 with mainly GDDR3 and 5750 with GDDR5.
I'm gonna have to buy one of those anyway- can't wait much longer...

EDIT: 5770 found- http://www.amd.com/us/products/notebook/graphics/ati-mobility-hd-5700/Pages/hd-5770-specs.aspx

 

I was wondering... what is the 3D Mark Vantage score for GTX280M ? The 5870 score i P7000 ish but is it higher than the GTX280M score? if it is higher than 280M , its won a supporter in the form of me!

 

I found a score of 6118 @ 1280x1024, and it was clocked at 660/1690/1025.

We still don't know what the 5870 scores at the standard resolution, but I expect it to be higher.

EDIT: This thread has a ton of GTX 280M benchmarks.

 

That's kinda interesting (from AMD site):
HD5650: core - 450-650MHz, mem - 800MHz GDDR3, TDP - 15-19W
HD5730: core - 650MHz, mem - 800MHz GDDR3, TDP - 26W
HD5750: core - 550MHz, mem - 800MHz GDDR5, TDP - 25W
HD5770: core - 650MHz, mem - 800MHz GDDR5, TDP - 30W

Another good news is that maximum TDP for HD5870 will be 50W. That's about 25-30W less than the GTX 260-280M.

 

That just disappointed me more.

 

OK, fixed HD5000 specs on wikipedia, enjoy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_AMD_graphics_processing_units#Mobility_Radeon_Series

I don't know what could be so disappointing in their energy efficiency.

 

The fact that it means they had room with the power to use a GPU with more than 800 SP and a 256-bit bus.

 

But that could also mean that in the future there's a chance for something like Mobility HD5950/70 with 256b bus and 1600SP's.

 

That doesn't make things better. It means they'd be milking the tech by trickling out performance bumps instead of doing the right thing from the start.

 

gonna have to agree...that is ridiculous..(hope to be wrong of course)
max 50 watts now just what the hell are you gonna do with that?

i really do hope that is a mistake or the fact that the computer it's in does not use a 220 watt power adapter. and they have a higher end version as well.
75watts over clocked 85 to 90 watts
256 bit
gddr5

all i can say at this time is...wow!

 

So should I wait to get a new laptop, then?

 

me, i would wait for the first people to get theirs first...i know the waiting is hard, but better to be safe than sorry....

 

50 watts is good. That means we can see these in 15" laptops.

 

If you already have even a midrange GPU (9600, 8600, 4650, etc..), I'd wait until Nvidia shows us what the GTX class is all about, which, according to a guy at the CES Nvidia booth, will be around March.

Let's speculate.

One Clevo reseller already has it listed for the W860CU.

 

Seriously? You're okay with the Mob. 5870 having lower specs than it could have had just so you can say you've got the highest model number in your 15" laptop?


Because me...I'd rather have the Mob. 5870 be a better GPU and just let the 50W GPU with 800SP and the 128-bit bus get a lower model number.

 

From the Anandtech article yesterday:

The high end part they have got is less than 5% of sales....the other 2 lower parts have to cover 85% of the market between them.

Are you saying there needs to be yet another part above the 5% one?....that would sell over 1% of market at best....

It's a pity the reporter didnt go and ask nvidia about their sales proportions...he would find out its pretty much the same on the other side as well, maybe their current high end a little better but is still less than 10% of the market. That's why nvidia mid last year introduced 3 new parts below the G92 chip but did not bother replacing anything at GTX260/280 wattage level, not worth the effort, nowhere near enough sales.

If it is any consolation cause of the higher and higher percentage of notebook sales the desktop and notebook markets are slowly merging, the desktop cards are coming down in power used and the performance compared to notebooks is now equalizing.

The extreme high end graphics ie GTX275/GTX285/5870/Fermi et al are headed off towards HPC or something else, they desperately need more sales now that cannot as easily be subsidized anymore by the mainstream cards

 

make a good high end card to majorly help you sell all your lower end ones.
word gets around town that your on top..all your lowers sell that much better.

they dont need to sell more highed cards...jsut enough to get the rest of the world going with their product...(speculation of course) you know..nda and all that sort of stuff...rotflmao@nda

might be cool for you, but for some of us coming from dual gpu laptops...that's a strait slap in the face.(unless the 5870 was slated to really run in a ballpark of the 5770 (without over clocking to get there) and topping dual 4870's..then it would be a worth while trade off to go single gpu....but then...that's why we we're hoping they let the chip run far closer to specs with the extra head room.....but.....we shall see....we are still only speculating till one gets in the hands of a standard or enthusiast user.

 

I only question the business sense of the naming scheme.

ATI should have stuck to its guns. No one would have an issue if they had named it the 5770. Hell, I'd be impressed. It could've been marketed as a success, with the 5770 being ready to go mobile so soon, and the industry would be optimistic about whats coming next. Nvidia would be scared.

By going with the 5870 moniker, they've "waived the flag" on this generation, as far as the killing the prospect of releasing any more enthusiast chips. It's also letting Nvidia know exactly how much $$$ to spend on catching up.

 

The "halo effect", that's great and all but it looks like the bottom 99% of users paying for the top 1% of users. Can you see this might make the 99% of people a little upset?

Previously it worked ok cause the current top end card ended up recycled in the mainstream where it could continue to be sold. But now they design differently more modular each card in the lineup is done virtually simultaneously thus no point subsidizing the high end development.

Er If you are using dual 4870s what is the problem with substituting dual 5870s instead? more performance and less power used surely.

 

Yeah the 5770 is a little confusing, the 256bit 5 series part was never coming though, it uses more power than the previous 4870 part and that was already at the power limits. In the fine print there was a much worse renaming though in the 5165(old 4670 overclocked) and 5145(old 4550 overclocked) parts.

AMD appears to have a refresh around mid year(at least of Cypress desktop part) possibly 2 other chips as well though i dont anything else about them yet.

Nvidia Fermi based GF100 chip is around GT200 size and wont come in mobile form or likely in a form with TDP less than 200W it is HPC, professional and desktop only no mobile at all. The 4 other chips in the same generation are not coming till mid year at least likely longer if things dont go perfectly.

 

Oh my, why even keep the 4670 around? And those names are ridiculous. 5165 sounds like an IGP.

edit: I read somewhere that the 5145 is 4330 based.

300M will only be G200 based anyway, so I've completely put Fermi out of my mind.

 

I've got a bet on mobile fermi not hitting til at the very least some time after august (and even then is optimistic) so the later the better for me =P

 

i see you havent been around highend gaming laptops and how it works...else you would already know that answer...lol
you will not be upgrading to any 5800/5700 anythings for like 6 months to a year once they do finally come out. and that's a very big if....they want to sell you one..let alone two. your asking for allot there!!
and i dont have dual 4870's...don't even have a gaming laptop at the moment. ditched my last one and am watching how they unfold for 2010.

a mobile fermi?
i don't think a desktop fermi for sale will hit till like june/july.(speculation of course)

 

Old parts should be 20-30% cheaper than replacements. I think the 5165 and the 5600/5700 series are pin compatible....the OEMs can make 2 versions easily one for performance and one for value. Same for the 5400 and the 5145 supposed to be easily to substitute between the two parts.

The 4550, 4330 and now 5145 are all the same chip underneath(64bit 80shader part on 55nm). AMD told some people yesterday the 51xx parts were "overclocked" compared to older parts but i dont know exact clocks yet.

For notebooks i think that is a safe assumption till mid year.

 

The problem with this logic is that the high-end mobile GPUs and gaming laptops weren't usually strongly advertised or readily available. Pretty much your only options would be a Clevo or an Alienware or maybe a Toshiba, and the ones with the goods wouldn't be found in a store unless it was a specialty store. A couple years ago, I actually had some idiot sales rep at an electronics store tell me that you couldn't get a laptop with a dedicated GPU.

Now Asus has come into the laptop market kicking, and teamed up with BestBuy to deliver laptops with the GTX260m. As much as I despise BestBuy, I have to appreciate what they've done for the high-end GPUs. Those laptops sold like hotcakes. The first shipment of G72Gx-RX09 was sold out a week after they first left the warehouses. Clearly there's a market for high-end GPUs, it just needs a reputable manufacturer to start using the high-end cards, advertise them, and sell them at stores.

As for your market percentages, how many laptops sold with the HD4850? Compared to the GTX260m? Maybe high-end GPUs are only 5% of the market, but nVidia got the lion's share of that 5%.

I think there's a pretty big disconnect between laptop manufacturers and what the consumers demand, and the manufacturers paid for it dearly when they let Asus burst in and eat up the market.

 

No what I'm saying is that the gain in each performance category could have been higher than what was offered.

The ~5% buying the high-end cards are still buying the high-end cards but they'd be getting a card that doesn't sacrifice performance for battery life the consumers in this category don't generally care for when buying a DTR.

The ~15% buying mid-range cards are still buying mid-range cards in the notebook sizes they want but now for the same and/or less power they'd get performance that approached the previous generation's high-end.

The ~70% buying the low end...yada yada. Or if you really want to this is where you would separate the parts to give buyers either the option to sacrifice performance for battery life or to increase performance for the same power draw as the previous generations card. You separate the parts here because this is the largest market share and it's also the share of the discrete cards that's the cheapest to produce.


As for the last ~10% I guess they're buying IGPs...and if so the second smallest market share is getting the most attention from AMD with all the Fusion APU work.



What I'm saying is this:

could've been moving along a lot less slowly.

 

Which reseller?

 

It's Santech.

They show the 5870 and GTS 360M.

 

That will be nice but will someone plz put a 5870 mobile in a D900F plz... with core i9... LOL...

But seriously , ATI should have put more shaders in 5870 mobile... they could have put 500 more easily and it would have the same TDP as FX3800M and own anything NVDIA has....sighh.... what a lost opportunity...

 

I'm guessing Clevo will show up to CeBIT with GTX 300M parts.

 

Design a different chip? Would of made it cost a heck of a lot more.

This way they can introduce 4800 series class performance into cheaper and smaller machines.

 

Remember that 58xx Mobility is based on 57xx desktop. AMD messed thing and it is hard to follow. There will be 2 4000HD rebrands too.

 

Wonderful. But now what do the larger machines designed with the power and cooling envelope to house more powerful cards get?

They get wasted potential is what they get.


If they went and named the 800 SP 128-bit card with 700Mhz & 1000Mhz clocks the Mob. HD5770 instead of the Mob. 5870 would it have decreased it's performance or stopped it from being put in a smaller cheaper notebook?

If they then went and instead made a Mob. HD5870 with more than 800SP and a 256-bit bus would that have decreased the performance of that 800SP/128-bit card or stopped it from being put in a smaller cheaper notebook?


You say it's more expensive for ATI to design a new chip and that's true, but do you really think that ATI is going to pass on that savings to you or are they going to make a larger profit by charging you for a higher Enthusiast level model number on what should've amounted to a mid-range, Performance level card?

 

Well, if they can manage it, and are big enough, there is always CFX to be done.

And lets remember the x2 is missing. I am wishing the 5970HD Mobility is based on the 5870HD desktop, and should be enough, or even better a 5950

 

might as well call them cards just what they are...5700 series....
could be trying to bank off the 5800's success though...(speculations of course)

 

There are already notebooks that can handle crossfire of two more power hungry and hotter cards though.

The AW M17x can run two 75W cards in Crossfire or SLI....that's equal to the wattage of three Mob. 5870s.


So unless they start making triple Crossfire notebooks enthusiast gamers got ditched.


P.S. -Welcome back Serg.

 

Who knows, either that, or you get only dual CFX with 58x0HD Mobility and save loads of energy and heat, result would be a battery-life friendlier laptop or smaller. Time will tell, but, honestly, if I was in the market for a dual GPU laptop, I'd get the "less" 58x0HD Mobility (which outperforms or equals the NVIDIA solution but consumes 33% less) over the others.

P.S.: Merci.

 

benchers need "consume more"...less means lower over clocks and less performance.....

 

Again battery life is not something most gamers who go for an Enthusiast level GPU in a desktop replacement notebook are overly concerned about.

 

It looks like ATI wanted to use the 32nm bulk process, but TSMC cancelled that.

They are likely going to pass some of that on, makes the notebook cheaper and you more likely to buy it over an nvidia based one. Lets face it ATIs reach into the high end is pretty bad as it is.

To get to market this quickly your idea would have them getting fully fledged 5870 cores and then hacking them all down, very inefficiant. They are VERY power hungry chips, I doubt a laptop could cool them, even the larger ones.

I think 2x 5870 mobile is going to do very well, the 5750 and 5770 scale VERY well in crossfire, I doubt a 256bit bus would even make enough of a difference without adding more shaders anyway.