ATI 5000HD details leak -UPDATED

Damn if this 128 bit bus is true, it'll be quite a disappointment. Even if it bests the 280M it probably won't by much due to its crippled bus. nVidia's GTS 360M is lackluster thus far as well so the only hope at this point is a 256 bit bus GDDR5 die shrunk G92c.

 

It's not like the GPU is strong enough to benefit from more bandwidth. 75GB/s is plenty enough for those cards. Remember, GDDR5.

 

If they added more cores it would be. Maybe they'll surprise us all with a die shrunk GT200..one can always dream.

 

It doesn't float that each performance group would use the same number of stream processors, and that there would be such a wide gap between them....especially seeing that at 800 SP the 5850 and 5870 would see no gain over the 4850 and 4870 (also use 800SP). Clocks alone would not be enough to separate the cards' performance.

The only way those predicted SP counts would work is if they were the starting count for the range and the number increased with every card in the range.

i.e. 80/160/240 SP for the 5400s; 400/480/560 for the 56/5700s; 800/880/960 for the 5800s.

 

Looking at the chart in front of me, it seems maybe 15%+ better than 280M at 1920x1200.

It is very unlikely there will ever be 256bit graphics parts in normal laptops again. The power density of the new parts is too high such that the larger sized chip needed to be able to implement a 256bit bus would require far too many shaders and thus power than a notebook could provide.

As have said previously is best to look towards total memory bandwidth rather than bus widths for a performance measure.

 

The 5800s are based off Broadway the desktop verson of which is Juniper from which the max config in the chip is 800 shaders. The 400 shader part below has got 80 more shaders compared to the last generation and also supports GDDR5 so there shoudnt be the gap there was between the 4670 and 4850 parts last time.

Both the 5870 and 5850 now use GDDR5 which can have quite highly varied clocks to exaggerate the performance delta. Note also with TSMC 40nm process has good power savings for same performance level over 65nm(70% less) but only gives you 30% more performance at the same power level.....meaning as you move clocks upward power usage ramps quite dramatically.

 

ASUS G73JH-A1
http://www.xoticpc.com/asus-g73jha1-order-p-2731.html?wconfigure=yes

 

That is one nasty laptop!

 

Come. To. Daddy.

Too bad it defaults with the worst i7 though.

If Broadway is based on the desktop 5700. they're just as guilty as Nvidia in my eyes.

 

Here is the source: http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/list_messages/1385125

Look half way down the post under the "Mobility Radeon 5000 Section" heading...is Dutch but hopefully you can work out what it says ok.

 

i didnt keep track of the topic, i'd appreciate if someone could tell me if there were any news about dell using 5xxx cards?

 

Maybe it loses something in translation but keywords in that linked source article make it sound like they're not sure either.

 

57XX series is very powerful product. Don't expect desktop level performance from mobile card. I'm pretty sure 58XX series is too hot for the notebooks.

I don't thing ATI is guilty as nVIDIA because they always have new product not the re branded crap.

 

But before HD5 Mobility series, the only difference between their notebook and desktop cards were the clock speeds. Now, they're totally different products, which have nothing in common with their corresponding desktop models. The cards are OK, but they should have lower numbers, and mobile 5800 series shouldn't even exist, as their mobile counterparts are pretty much the desktop 5700's.

 

The desktop 5000 series cards use different stream processor counts between each model. Juniper Pro (5750) for example uses 720SP while Juniper XT (5770) has 800SP. For Cypress the difference is larger between the 1440 for the 5850 and the 1600 for the 5870. It is not just the clocks producing the the difference in performance between the two cards.

You're also dealing with notebook parts which are downclocked making the real value difference between the clock rates smaller than in the desktop versions.

Example: The desktop HD5750's SP are clocked at 700Mhz and the desktop HD5770's SP are clocked at 850Mhz...a difference of 150Mhz. Downclock both by 30% (approximately the downclock on the mobile 4870 from the desktop 4870) and the difference between the two cards clocks drops to 70Mhz.

If the mobile version of those Juniper based cards are both using the same 800SPs, memory bus, and GDDR type a difference of 70Mhz would produce a negligible gain in real performance. Maybe 2-3 FPS in most games.


Now I'm not saying that the mobile cards won't be based on lower tier GPUs than their desktop counterparts but there's something obviously wrong with producing an LP, Pro, and XT version in each performance group, giving the 5650 more SP than it's previous gen part and then leaving the top of the line Enthusiast cards with the same number of SP that the 4850 & 4870 had.

 

If the Mobility 5870 is using the same 800SP as the Mobility 4870 then I'll back you on that statement. More than 800SP and I might have to disagree. ;þ

 

if the card is the 4870 rebranded, then they won't be like nvidia unless they do the same iteration 2 more times after that

 

I'm just saying, if we're going to call out Nvidia for renaming desktop GPUs when they transition to the mobile scene, then ATi should receive the same scrutiny when the 5770(?) is being called the Mobility 5870.

It's not as egregious as what Nvidia's done in the past with the G92, but it disappoints me because we aren't looking at much of a performance jump from what we currently have available.

 

Its funny that when the 4870 mobility was released, everybody was going wahh wahh, it doesnt have GDDR5...and that is despite the fact that it (and the 4850) were amazing cards, so close to the desktop versions that it was almost hitherto unheard of in the high-end.

I don't think it really matters what the high-end 5000 series will be. People will find something to complain about. The fact is that it is impossible to pack a high-end desktop card into a laptop, compromises have to be made; deal with it.

Personally, I will wait for actual performance results (and price/availability) before jumping to conclusions.

 

That is pretty sick, and for only $1600. Looks like Alienware and Sager have some competition.

 

Looks like I will finally be back to ATI

BYE BYE M17x

 

well..one main difference between gpus is...you can take a desktop gpu chip (the chip only!) and put it right on a mobile pcb...you can't do that with nvidia. so in reality...it is the same "chip", but has been toned down by not feeding it the power it needs to really run at desktop speeds...
example...when the 4870's first came out..half the people (including myself) thought they sucked...but if you look at them now...they are kicking butt! and when more power was fed to them...they just kept going up. so who is to say...that under the right circumstances that 2 4870's couldn't rivial one desktop 4850 or 4870? (since that's how it works...2 mobiles to one desktop (same class) gpu)(speculations of course)

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the 4850 xt in Xfire is scoreing higher in vantage then the desktop 5850

 

The desktop 5770 is not a 4870 rebranded, even though they have the same specs. It's a 5870 cut in half, really.

 

a 4870 can't do dx11...that should have really said it all.... (speculations of course)

 

What would the 5730 laptop card be compareable to.
Seeing it on pre-orders now.

 

Safest guess would be it falls between the GTS 250M and the GTX 260M.

 

Something tells me we'll be somewhat disappointed with the Mobility 58xx series. Because nVidia is still rebadging 300M series parts (at least with the GTS 360M) and worse, not making the move to DX11, ATi would probably save their big guns for when nVidia becomes more competitive in the discrete notebook segment. In this case, the big guns would mean what they have been pretty much doing with deriving their mobile GPUs from their desktop counterparts. If the trend continued with the new 58xx series, that would make a mobility 5870 faster than a desktop GTX 285. So I don't think ATi would overkill the competition with such cards.

However, if I'm wrong (which I hope) I would welcome such cards with open arms

 

i'm talking about how nvidia took the mobile 8800 and just die shrunk it and re-branded it for the next two iterations.

 

ATI already has plans to release their new Hecatoncheires architecture in late 2010 and are looking to take advantage of Global Foundries 32nm or 28nm fab by 2011. The way it's looking the 5000 series will be short lived so there's really no point in pulling their punches or holding anything in reserve for when Nvidia wakes up.

 

I dunno, doesn't the Asus X77 look too thin to house that kind of power?



I mean, that is a slim machine.

I'm still in the boat that the chip will be a lower end part.

 

Mobility HD5650 has already been benchmarked to be just below the GTS 250M GDDR3...so you got to assume the card with the next higher model number is going to run faster.


Also when has ASUS been overly concerned about their machines running too hot.

 

That's only Vantage score, in games it's usually faster than 250M.

 

Yes. They said 3DMark score is low but it's much faster than GF250M .

People need to read it till end to know about that. (Conclusion Part)

 

Same notebook mentioned in Fudzila

I just wanted to ask, will this 5870 be the fastest mobile card from ATI at the moment?

 

It had damn well better be. Though I'm not expecting a huge leap over the Mobility 4870.

 

if it does have 1600 cores like the desktop 5870 , then it would be a great leap... it looks like this mobile 5870 is more like a desktop 5700 series...

 

If it is confirmed to have just 800 cores, 128-bit and GDDR5, my main concern will be where it's core and memory are clocked.

I guess I'll be disappointed either way. I was really hoping to finally see a stock mobile cards reach the performance of the desktop 4870, but the tech that strong just isn't ready to make the transition.

It appears that we've currently experiencing a performance ceiling, which is somewhere between the 9800 GT and 4850.

 

I think 700MHz for top SKU, memory round 1000Mhz.

On more mainstream notebooks, memory is probably limited by availablity of low voltage(1.35V) parts, saw hynix had some 800Mhz at that voltage on 50nm and have promised higher clocks next year when the smaller processes become available.

They are getting closer, new memory helps alot. I would guess could get to that level with a moderate overclock. If you look at what they did, the 3 mobile parts and thier respective desktop counterparts are getting closer together.

From here:

From memory desktop 4850 was around P6000 and 4870 around P7500 at stock.

 

Not quite.

 

no real category for 1366x768..so why would they even consider that an accomplishment?

 

Such a ugly cover up on the gpu score to

 

that's why i didn't even mention that part. that's like two undercover strikes right there.
wrong res and a gpu cover up.
asus has plenty of world class benchers on their team...you would think they would run it all on the up and up....
going to be another 3 or 4 months trying to get the real true scores up out of this machine....

 

its still under NDA john they cant reveal that yet

 

then that explains the 1366x768 resolution as well...

 

i wouldn't be surprised if ATI gives them the finger for showing that ...

 

Yeah sorry did overestimate forgot how good the 4870 was, 5870 mobile would need a severe overclock to get anywhere near 4870 desktop performance.

Going at it again: the 5870 mobile at 800shaders/700Mhz/1000Mhz should be very close in performance to the 5750 desktop part at 720shaders/700Mhz/1150Mhz memory

From here:
http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-5750-review-crossfirex/21
looks around desktop GTS250 in vantage performance, the 4870 desktop coming in round 15% more.

 

As I recall, a number of users were expecting around 5750 performance. To be honest, in my opinion, anyone expecting desktop 4870 performance was setting themselves up for a letdown.

 

i guess it's just unrealistic to shrink the 5870 all the way down to fit a 75watt envelope. try taking away the 6pin and 8 pin connectors for the desktop version.