ATi Mobility HD 6000 series Roadmap

Yep, but for mobile, means nothing. What we now from 6850/6870 is what we expect for mobile. More than likely a little slower than 6850 I think. 15% better than the HD5870M. Problem for mobile is that it's still 40nm and the power/heat issues are still present. That's why IMO the HD7xxx if that is what the next gen will be called the what to wait for. If you have HD4xxx then I think the HD6xxx would be an awesome upgrade, but for those who have HD5870M then wait for the next gen.

 

you're right maybe we could have some surprises with the expensive dual gpu laptops or maybe the optimus technology for AMD we already have an improved crossfire

 

nah even for 4850 it's not that much of an upgrade like 40% if it's 15% faster then 5870m

 

haha it starts to be quite a lot
how much do you need 400% improvement?

 

Based on the fact that he's waiting for double the number of shaders he has now, he's looking for a 200% improvement.

Would 15% even be enough to beat the 480M? If not, then what's the point?

 

Well, the HD6870(desktop) did a bit of reordering, clocked itself 5% higher, and managed to get within 7% of the desktop HD5870 - almost spitting range - despite having 480 fewer shaders (30% less!!), and a much smaller die size, to boot.

The possibilities for a faster HD6000m under the high thermal envelope set by Fermi has already been blatently spelt out infront of us - HD6800 is not a simple doubling of shaders, unlike the HD5800 series. Lots of potential for the mobile parts exist, already

 

the little overclock room for the 6870 and the higher thermal requirement looks to me the 6870 has been pushed to the limit for whatever reasons (probably to close the gap with the 5870 as you said or more probably to fight back the more efficient than expected 460)
confirmed by the fact that the 6870 is less performance per watt efficient than the 6850
HIS Radeon HD 6870 1 GB Review - Page 30/33 | techPowerUp

for mobile matter we should rather look at the 6850 than the 6870

 

15% is a way conservative estimate. Let's look through these benches, comparing the 5770 to the 6850:


MW2 = 23%
Metro 2033 = 50%
Dirt 2 = 27%
Crysis Warhead = 27%
BC2= 26%
3Dmark Vantage GPU = 31%

That's an average of 30.6%.

Assuming the two chips are downclocked by the same ratios, it's fair to expect that to hold true with Mobility 5870 vs Mobility 6870. No less than 25%.

Then factor in the overclocking potential. The Mobility 6870 will be reaching for the desktop 5850. The Mob 5870 is reaching for... the 5770.

 

It is exciting, they just need to get off their butt and get them out for xmas!

 

You may disagree with me, but no I do not think 25%. I think maybe 10-15% only, possible 25%. It's fine that AMD made such great improvements for desktop, laptops are different. HD6xxx I don't expect to be any different than HD5xxx was for laptops. The HD5xxx on desktop made huge strides in performance over the HD4xxx. But for laptops, while the improvements were worthy and admirable, but not nearly the same extent as it was for desktop.

AMD for their single GPU flagship mobile will still be able to be used in a system using a 150 watt PSU or less. And the temps will still be within reason for a good 15" and 17" system, and still be available for use by cost/performance machines. I don't see any of this changing from what HD5870M success has been.

Also the HD6850 isn't as good as HD5850.

The HD5870M isn't as good as a desktop HD5770, but I do think the HD6xxx mobile will exceed the HD5770. But nowhere close to HD5850.

 

a bit off topic, but does anyone know have any info on the 470m? I cannot find any info on it and am very curious as to how it matches up against the 6xxx.

 

I still wouldn't rule out Barts XT as Blackcomb...in fact I feel it's got a pretty good chance.

 

It's supposed to be a 192-bit 1.5GB GDDR5 part with 288 shaders clocked at 535 core/1100 shader/2500 memory (4x). No info on HD 6xxxM parts yet though.

 

An interesting blurb out of Neliz yesterday on the Beyond3DForums.

So it seems the reason mobile cards didn't see the jump that desktop cards did last January was because we didn't get the real Mob. HD5870 GPU.

For those that don't know neliz has often been a source for leaks and rumors this GPU generation and the last.

 

Even then I'm a bit skeptical. Seems more likely originally maybe the HD5870M was supposed to be 850/1200 instead ATi only managed 700/1000. Pushing the mobile past 800/1125 becomes generally pretty unstable, there are few out there that can, but none really for steady gaming...

 

Probably was way to hard to bin all those chips for that. 40nm capacity was stretched to the limit for the HD5000 desktop GPU, to begin with. Power gating probably did the rest.

 

AMD doesn't assign different family codenames to derivatives of the same GPU unless it's a dual GPU config or it's been tweaked and respun like the HD4890. A simple overclock of Broadway would have received an XT/PRO/LT type suffix.

Lexington XT (the only version ever heard about in rumors) was almost certainly a different GPU than Broadway...but how it differed we can only guess at.

 

So its safe to assume considering the 5800m series was announced in January and released a couple months after, it would be the same with the new 6800m series? I'm starting to look for a new laptop now, and if its only a few months away, I might as well wait it out.

 

What's your logic though? The Mobility 4870 was based from the 4800, which the 5770 was never meant to outperform.

The Mobility 6800 is based from a chip which dominates the 5770.

Very doubtful that it's less than a 20% advantage.

That's an extremely safe assumption.

 

I sure hope they can put a "Whistler" based card in a 13.3" notebook

 

That is very interesting, sounds like the Lexington chip just wasn't efficient enough to be implemented in laptops.
According to the Techpowerup HD 6850 review, the Barts chip is ~10% more efficient than Juniper at high resolutions (what most high-end laptop screens have). So it's safe to say that Blackcomb will be based on Barts.

So far we haven't heard anything of the other mobile chips, codenamed Whistler and Seymour according to Nordic Hardware. What will those be based on?
Not everyone is interested in a high-end chip that will find its way into Clevo and Asus heavyweights..

 

Well regarding the upper middle range graphics I just hope they don't end like the 56xx / 57xx series, that is crippled with low bandwidth because AMD is too cheap to equip them with GDDR5 memory. If they hear my request they should offer very decent performance.

 

Yeah but the low bin versions. With XFX and some other companies now introducing Premium Graphics, hand selecting only the best capable of their 1000 ghz overclock, means the next best are just standard now. For mobile will likely be lower bin, with lower clock and overclockability not a guarantee.

And this includes the HD6850. The XFX HD6850 black edition is pretty much guaranteed a 225 overclock on the core with lifetime warranty. If XFX is doing this, there is little doubt Saphire, MSI, Asus and others will be doing the same. BTW Asus also gets first pick on AMD chips, meaning Asus has access first. So with Asus and XFX now hand picking the best for their Premier lineup of graphics, makes me think mobile versions will not be of the highest quality.

 

not sure what you are talking about cause the alienware version is often clocked at 900/1200 not trouble

 

Gaming and benchmarking are two different things. People benchmarking on G73 can achieve those clocks also. I haven't found a single post in Alienware forum indicating anyone gaming with those settings.

Show me someone who can run the HD5870M stable with 900/1200 overclock on Furmark for over an hour.

 

well if it survive the benchmark withouth overheating or shutting down it generally should be stable for gaming (not talking about folks who use a freezer to oc thier i7 further)

 

No way. My temps on Vantage with 850/1200 OC is around 72C and that isn't representative of the temps I get in games which are around 77C. And I would never game at 850/1200 on my system.

So sorry no, running Vantage says NOTHING at all about stability. Furmark while it is not the same as gaming conditions, but it is evidence of system stability at those settings.

And I know Mandrake who regularly pushes his system to the limit of 900/1200 overclock on his GPU has stated he would never recommend using those as default or for gaming. Benchmarking only. Also a handful of benchmarkers are not a lot of Alienware users.
- For 900/1200 I know Mandrake has a portable A/C unit and I know 5150Joker had done significant modding to his system and the Alienware fans are set to max. None of these are normal conditions for an Alienware M17x R2.
- For MOO to achieve his 10,000 score on a single GPU he placed his unit in the freezer.

 

well i personally don,t own a serie 5 card so i'm not sure about how hard it is on the system with a such card but on my 48XX serie card vantage is harder then any game and tends to crash or overheat quite a bit much more then any game does

also 72 or 77 for an ati card is of no consern honestly if these are your temps you could game all day long on it no trouble unless you had to bump voltage up

 

Forgot to say, the 77C are of when I use 800/1125 in gaming, so my temps while gaming at lower clock are a lot higher than benchmarking at higher clock.

Also seeing many Alienware HD5870M users with Furmark running around 80-84C with stock clock settings.

And read a post of a M15X user who had 900/1200 did physical modding to his cooing system with an AC unit blowing directly on his unit. Cutting up and customizing the heatsink itself along with retention clip mod.

 

The higher availability of HD6580 cards in predominantly non-reference offerings, in combination with excellent overclocking trials suggest that HD6870 is more a Barts pushed near it's limit than HD6850 is low-bin or faulty parts. If we were back in the RV740 runs of 40nm then what you're saying might've been the case, but on the 3rd generation of 40nm, depending on just the yields of bad chips alone will not support an entire SKU.

For their first run of the HD6800 series AMD has assigned a smaller portion of the Barts chips to HD6870 while the bulk of the "tens of thousands" of GPUs seemingly went into making HD6850s to sell against the more competitive GTX 460.

 

Interesting, but the AIBP's hand selecting the best from the bin for even the HD6850 is gonna put some strain on mobile supply IMO.

This seems to be kind of a new thing as I haven't seen previous Saphire and competitors offering something that XFX Black does, which such a guarantee. And I just don't see Saphire, Asus, MSI, 3D Club and others sitting back letting XFX take the market on premium overclockable market. I just don't see high end laptop gaming to be that profitable still even though laptop sales continue to grow.

 

yup but fur mark is even more demanding then every thing i can,t even run it on my system at stock without overheating in helll

yup alienware with 5870 need the retention clip mod since the clip was originaly designed for the 4870 and dell missed that when deploying thier new gen

but wow that an impressive and motivated modding lucky the m17x does not require such thing and sad the m17 does not allow for it

 

I would love to try higher memory clocks but I really do become unstable. With 1.05v profile, even 900/1030 clocks might get jumpy every hour or so of gaming but not crash. Then again i'm using a 120w PSU so I need to change that to up the voltage and get much higher clocks.

I currently game at 880/1030, though I have also gamed at 900/1030. My max temps when gaming at such clocks is around 72C, and furmark for 30mins around 83C stable since the first 3 minutes.

If only I could push the memory to 1100....

 

http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/a458/miahsoul/crysis9001125.png

Just played crysis for an hour at 720p, all settings high, some times i messed around an changed it to very high though. Clocks are at 900/1125. Temps seem well within the safe range. Most stock G73JHs won't run this cool. Slight artifacting seen, but barely noticable. I only noticed one instance where I saw artifacting, but it was on a tiny piece of rock and did not notice any other signs of artifacting.

@ Above, I'm guessing you could get much high memory clocks if you'd just go to 1.15v or 1.1v. I suggest you try it out.

 

crysis tend to artifact by it self no over clock needed

 

Yeah, I've noticed it before when I was running it stock. I thought my GPU was effed up or something. xP

900/1200 crashes too easily, though I have done a 875/1200 vantage run before.

I'm gonna game at this 900ish OC in hopes that I can get a 6xxx replacement.

 

This thread is like a drug to me, it's the sole reason I visit the forum daily, and franctly, I'm not getting enough of it lately lol.

An attempt to summarize, please do correct me:

Next AMD mobile gpu top of the line will be called 6970, I would expect that naming since it'd be the same than top single core desktop.

It'll be based on the desktop 6850, since it is arround 5% less powerful than the 5850, would we be safe to assume the 6970m will lose another 5% to be 10% away from the 5850?

We're getting the desktops 5970/90 in November, and will probably get the mobiles in January, already HITTING RETAIL.

First laptops with it could be Alienware and Asus on January. Any other company, Clevo (I read they always take ages), msi?

Related to last question... will they cost the same than they cost now with the 5870m? Meaning the Asus 1200-1600 dollars; and the Alienware 1800-2xxx.

First laptops with a crossfire woul be??? (any input?) Am I safe to suppose it'd be Alienware again? Date?

Since 6000 is more energy efficient... I suppose it could consume less watts than the 5870m.

Well, that's all I can think of now, hopefully I'll get all of you experts talking about it again hhhahahah, cause I do admit I can't live without knowing more about the 6000's mobile. And yes, I know there are not any more news, but lets speculate!!!

 

The 6850 does consume more power than the 5770 so I think power requirements might be a tad higher. Should not be silly though.

 

- Probably Mobility 6970
- Probably 6850 based
- Retail in January is quite optimistic
- Probably Asus -> Clevo -> Dell -> MSI
- Probably a bit more expensive than the Mob 5870
- Crossfire in late Q1/early Q2 is the usual routine
- It will absolutely not consume no less wattage than the Mob 5870

 

asus will likely be first for single card but with a bugged solution and a rushed vbios

dell first for cfx solution how well it will work remain a mistery for now but as seen from previous alienware it will likely be the most solid version (after a patch or 2 and talking for the cards them self not the whole setup)

for the rest i'm with Kevin_jack2.0

and of course it won't consume less then mob 5870 as this card was under the max consumsion of even the mxm 3.0 standar



and i'm also wondering what desktop 6970 will look like

 

The high-end mobile cards will be more powerful than the current generation. Mobility 58x0 is based on the desktop 5770. This time, the top mobile cards will likely be based on the 6850 or 6870, both of which are more powerful than the 5770.

 

is there any rumor on what the 69XX will look like

 

Right now there are two schools regarding the Cayman chips : those who think it'll be rougly 1,5*Barts, so wider bus, more SPs, ROPs etc, and those who believe it'll be a different architecture using new 4D shaders (at one point the rumor that Barts would use these too was widely spread). If those 4D shaders were outperforming the old 5D I wonder why they wouldn't integrate them in Barts already.

 

For desktop? There's plenty but other than the possible 4D arch and what it would mean for the next gen on 28nm it's got nothing to do with notebooks so I see no reason for posting those rumors here. I haven't been following it all much lately but if I come across Turks or Caicos info I'll be sure to post it here since those might see mobile form.

Because it's unproven arch and it's easier to test and work out all the bugs on a bigger die than a smaller one. See also: Fermi GF100.

 

isn't bart adrealy a 4d arch?


ya for desktop i' having a hard time finding these rumor the mobility version is not comming until chrismas so i wanna spend my timelooking at other exiting thing and i,m thinking about building a desktop

 

Barts turned out to be 5D.

Here's two good places to start looking for Cayman/Antilles info:

3D Architectures & Chips - Beyond3D Forum

GPUs - SemiAccurate Forums

 

Neah, I'll just wait for you to post whatever new information comes up. It is more convenient.

 

tha's a good start but so far there are no crusty detail in sight

 

Rebranding rumors look like they were true.

ATI Catalyst? PC VENDOR ID (1002) LIST

Code:

ATI Radeon HD 6230 Evergreen 68F9

ATI Radeon HD 6250 Evergreen 68F9

ATI Radeon HD 6290 Evergreen 68F9

ATI Radeon HD 6390 Evergreen 68DA

ATI Radeon HD 6510 Evergreen 68D9

ATI Radeon HD 6750 Evergreen 68BE

The first few models for the low end I expected since they should match up with Fusion IGPS but the HD6570 is a stupid move that AMD has no good reason for.

Code:

ATI Radeon HD 5400 Series Evergreen 68F9

ATI Radeon HD 5500 Series Evergreen 68DA

ATI Radeon HD 5500 Series Evergreen 68D9

ATI Radeon HD 5700 Series Evergreen 68BE

 

If it's true then what are they going to do with Turks / Caicos ? Are these going to be part of the 28nm successor actually ?

That and Cayman being a different arch would make some sense... in the end Northern Islands / 6000 series would be a a refresh or a rebadge of evergreen before the real deal (28nm southern islands), with only the high-end introducing the main elements of the next big architecture change as a way to assess its efficiency.