ATi Mobility HD 6000 series Roadmap

lol not the 2012 nonsence..

Totally agree .... this thread is making me laugh again.. a ferni bashing thread finally

 

6870 GPU-Z:

 

Lol, not Asus fanboys again

BTW, I don't care about the mayan calendar.
But there are reasons to believe that if something big is to happen, -
it might coincide with the most intense solar maximum for the past 100 years. Already there's a strong influence on our minds - countless cults and sects (Nvidia/AMD fanboys, Asus believers , etc)

 

lol stop it.. but i'm like 90% not believing 2012 nonsence but 10% believing it... can't decide lol.

 

Leaked benchmark results for Desktop 6850 and 6870 from Guru3d:

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/9111/91145461.gif

Taking 80% of the performance from the 6850 (and more optimistically, the 6870) should fall in line as to what to expect for the mobile variants. It's kinda weird seeing a 5870 being faster than a 6870 for the most part, but it's just naming...amirite?

 

Yeah it's just naming, 6970 will be the 5870 successor, at around 300 watts at full load, still less than a GTX 480 Wonder for dual GPU units, they will name them 6970 X2?

But the boost in performance seems to b real, Nvidia reduced prices on the GTX 460 and GTX 470 even further as that's the only way they can compete with these new additions. But looks like the 6870 power and heat should be still better than GTX 470 and on par with GTX 460 or better.

IMO it seems the biggest addition is adding 32 ROPs to the HD5770 successor. If the mobile get 32 ROP also, be amazing, but sadly I suspect it will be just 16 again, but never know! 32 ROP upgrade and 256 bit GDDR5 upgrade should make anyone waiting for mobile HD6xxx ecstatic for sure.

 

Yup, just naming.

See it this way. the HD5850 is a 1440 SP unit, being defeated by a 1120 SP unit.

A 1600 SP variant of the HD6000 series would easily defeat the HD5870. And they seem to be aiming for around 30% improvement, and efficiency rather than overwhelming power. Who knows? Maybe they just created enough HD6000 variants to simply 1up the current fermi, perhaps feeling confident they don't need to release anything groundbreaking until threatened.

Saving the big guns for another GPU gen? Who knows.

I hope the mobile HD6870m ends up 80% of the dekstop variant. Such power would be massive haha. But I doubt we will end up with such card

And yeah, 32 ROP for the Mobile radeoun would be awesome.

 

AMD?s Radeon 6870 & 6850: Renewing Competition in the Mid-Range Market - AnandTech :: Your Source for Hardware Analysis and News

 

Was it mentioned why they went from 57xx to 68xx? It has similar performance and power consumption as the HD 5850 and GTX 460. And with price cuts should be around the same price as the other two (there have been crazy GTX 460 deals). Will stick with the GTX 460 on the desktop side for now, we'll see how the notebook parts compare. Not to say that it isn't impressive that AMD has increased their efficiency to get their new 57xx series (68xx) to match their 58xx series but in the end, to the consumer, the benefits aren't that noticeable.

 

Looks like we're getting a down-clocked 6850... which wouldn't be bad at all.

 

Gosh I really want to pull the trigger for a G73JW right now but all of these reviews coming out for the new AMD cards is wanting me to hold off until the new mobility cards come out, ugh waiting sucks

 

I love TechPowerUp reviews, by far the best.

Anyway, looks like the 6800 series is not going to be such a large performance jump. Take a look at these TDP charts: HIS Radeon HD 6850 1 GB Review - Page 29/32 | techPowerUp

Looks like the 6850 is about 10% more power efficient than the 5770. Thus I would expect a 15% performance increase over the M5870 at the same price point. This should be enough to give the 480M and 470M a run for its money.

 

Just went through some reviews at Tom's Hardware. I don't like how their benchmarks give sometimes weird results to say the least and they don't feel like commenting it. But the 6870 looks great, but has no overclocking potential, while 6850 is a bit disappointing by comparison (on par or even slower than a stock GTX 460 ?) but has a sweet price point and a nice OC potential. I think nvidia can finally do more than keep up with that with a fully enabled GF104 (with minor tweaks maybe).

edit : tom's hardware results for the 6850 are misleading it seems. Other reviews show it systematically beating the gtx 460 by a good margin, flirting with the 5850.

So, it seems you can get a card almost on par with the old 5870 for 210€ nowadays. Pretty neat for an arch on the same node that was supposed to bring "minor improvements"

 

Anandtech, generally, has some of the best reviews around... As for the benchmarks the vast majority of them look very good, 5770 to 6870 is a pretty big jump. What I'm wondering about now is the more mainstream cards (M6650?)

 

QFT

anand & co. also understand the architecture better than 99.99% of other review sites, not that most gamers care, but true geeks do

 

I'll take a look at anand's review to get a definite opinion then.

@gdansk like the quote in your sign !

 

Could someone quick tell me what desktop chip the newest bestest mobile chip will be based off of?
If that info is out yet...

I didn't get the whole new confusing naming schemes thing but will it be the 6770 or 6750 like before?

Also will the desktop card be coming out sooner than the mobile chip its based off then?

 

Because AMD priced based on performance and selling a HD6750 at $180 or a HD6770 at $240 would have upset people while selling a HD6580 and HD6870 at those prices is attractive.



AFK while I read reviews. ;þ

 

The 67xx series will be a renamed 57xx series if it's released at all, and the 68xx series is the successor to the 57xx series. So, the top-end Mobility 6000 chips will likely be based on the 6850.

 

Juniper will continue to sell until Turks and Caicos are launched but the jury is still out on whether or not HD5700 will get rebranded as HD6700. Anand mentions in their review that Juniper will continue to sell "as-is".


Though that does segue into our next round of speculation: what are the specs of Seymour(Caicos) and Whistler(Turks)?

The special trick with those GPU is one can't forget to consider Fusion or even Sandy Bridge's IGP which both will up the low end a bit.


How big can a Whislter get before a possible Hybrid Crossfire(what's Gemini??) combo with Llano's rumored 400-480 SPU, starts encroaching on a single 960 SPU Blackcomb machine? Though that might be a selling point to manufacturers to go with a Llano+Blackcomb Gemini combo instead of Sandy Bridge+Blackcomb.

 

The 6xxx series is a lower-power-needed version of the 5xxx series. The 5870 is slightly better than the 6870, but the 6870 has the size and power consumption of the 5770.

The 6850 and 6870 have less Shader units than the 5850 and 5870...

 

That's not exactly true. The 6800 series is the successor to the 5700 series, not the 5800 series. The power consumption and size should, therefore, be compared to the 5700 series. Taking that into consideration, it can't really be considered a "lower-power-needed version."

 

Good news about these new 6800 cards is that they scale better than the 5800 series. There have been a couple of benchmarks where 6870 in CF was faster than 5870s in CF, even though a single 6870 is slower than a single 5870. Guys @ Xtremesystems got 95% CF scaling in Vantage and Far Cry 2 for examples.

 

Yup, I was reading all reviews available and the new 6000 series seem like a great revamp of their tech. Lower prices, better performance, lower power consumption, more features.

Not every gen of cards gets the 100% performance increase threatment, so right now it is about enhancing and setting the stones for the real upgrade next gen.

Now I want to see what the 6900 can do.

 

that's interesting if they are perfecting thier cfx technologie

 

so the questions in mind is can us alienware R2 users get them in our notebook and bump up the performance another notch?

 

That... is amazing. O.O And it means that the 5970 is already obsolete (in a sense). Hopefully the 6850 can beat CF 5850's. That would mean a lot for the mobile market.

 

Here's a compiled list of results, complements of Dudler @ SemiAccurate.
SemiAccurate Forums - View Single Post - AMD's 6800 brings lots of goodies to the table

Average of 94.5% for the 6850 and 96.35% for the 6870.

I'm not sure what they did with this series, but it seems to be working. At this rate, Crossfired Caymans will be a beast.

 

wow te mobility cfx setup will be monsters sadly until i can have 3.2k shader in a laptop i'm not upgrading ...that or window 8 and dx12

 

The current and last two generations from ATI and nVidia have been very good (90+%) dual GPU scaling for several games and benchmarks. It's triple and above scaling that still needs a little work.

 

That's probably 2 full die-shrinks ahead so you're in for a long wait

 

4850 cfx play all game maxed and with my cpu upgrade comming i have some headroom

and with my curent setup i actualy have 1.6k shaders so it might be only 1 die shrink ahead

 

wrong. gtx 480 has a 250w tdp and 6970 will be a 300w tdp card as that is the maximum.

 

With the new series focusing on efficiency and such, does that mean we will start seeing higher end cards in the 13 - 14 inch line of notebooks?

 

With every generation of new notebooks, performance always will increase. But does that mean we'll see higher end GPUs in the same screen size, nope, you'll just see the newer mainstream GPUs.

 

They could do that now...all AMD would have to do is rename the HD5650 to HD5870 and then not offer any GPUs with higher performance.

You'd be cool with that?

 

Is that 250W rating for the whole card or just the GPU?

 

prolly just the gpu like amd cause how can they tell the tdp of a card they are not building

 

There was some difference in the way Nvidia and AMD determine their TDP, but I forgot exactly what it was.

 

AMD usually doesn't include the GDDR5 memory chips in the TDP calculations.

 

Ew. That means that the power consumption of the 6970 (or whatever) is going to make the GTX 480 look power efficient. If that's the case, then they've failed and might as well make a 500W GPU with more than double the performance of the 480...

 

No, the GPU is still limited to 300W (though that change if AMD decides to change the current power connectors). Besides, GDDR5 doesn't consume that much power.

 

The power consumption numbers given for the desktop cards are for Max Board Power and are used to determine how many power connectors the boards need to run. The numbers are for the reference cards and include everything including the VRAM.

Even if you look at the spec sheets on AMD.com, for desktops the power specs talked about are Idle Power and Max Board Power while for notebooks it's just TDP.

The HD6970 GPU's power consumption will be well under 300W since two of them will be used for the HD6990.

 

I should have added a *


* = I only know this to be true for their mobile chips.

 

What card is going to compete against the 470m? The 6900s seem to be in a different class and the 6800s are weaker than the 5800s.

I read somewhere, but I'm not sure.... Sandy Bridge will incorporate an IGP and the 400 series has the capability to run alongside a Sandy Bridge processor. Wouldn't that mean that you could run a laptop with a 470m with optimus? Cause that would mean epic performance and battery life..

I'm not hard on the facts here so please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Not only could you, you already can. i5 laptops have an IGP already, so Nvidia 400s are already using Optimus.

 

The 5870m is a derivative of the desktop 5770, and most likely the fastest mobile GPU will be based on the 6870 or 6850. Therefore it should crush the 5870m and easily compete with the 470m.

 

Yeah, that's a good point. I can't say that it's not a bit confusing, though.

Wait, actually that's not confusing. It's just inconsistent.

 

Personally I think the largest gain in 3D Gaming performance is completely in the hands of game developers now. It's their choice in how they want the technology available implemented and whether to continue to make games coded horrible (New Vegas incredible example, great game, story, but coding is terrible, framerate dropping abysmally for no apparent reason at times), and the new features also.
- What I mean is that AMD and Nvidia can continue to push the limits of their innovation and new technology, it won't do much unless PC Gaming Developers actually start doing their part also. It seems they just rely on PC Gamers to continuously upgrade to combat their poor optimizations and terrible coding.

Tessellation are in their court also. AMD has proven that Nvidia's current method of tessellation they have been paying developer's to use is 75% wasteful and unless you use a wire frame, you can't actually see what is going on.

And their method bottlenecks the GPU itself, this is for both Nvidia and AMD, it's so weird that Nvidia would cripple their own product just to spite AMD.
- Nvidia's method decreases rasterisation effiency less than 10%. Rasterisation is the conversion of vertex into raster image, or a pixel, convert geometry into a 2D image viewable on your screen. I am not expert, so this is just the basics. The ratio of triangles to pixels is abysmal.
- Nvidia's method also increases OVERSHADING. Meaning the number of times a pixel shading is processed, increases by 8 TIMES. Means images are being processed 8 times more than it should be. At least that is my understanding. The shader cores are also being wasted.
- Nvidia's method also messes up shadowing and AA as their method is processed at 1 pixel, and believe shadowing, AA are based on pixel quads, 2x2, not 1x1.

And would seem this is not something that can't be fixed at the hardware level, it's all in the hands of developers.

AMD Radeon HD 6870 & HD 6850 Review - Page 4

 

just looking at those results for the 6870 crossfire I expect some amazing results from the 6990
ASUS Radeon HD 6870 CrossFire Review - Page 13/25 | techPowerUp