Free Diablo 3 open beta this weekend.

You know how Blizzard is. Expansion sets may take many years thanks to their philosophy: never release unfinished products.

 

Agreed. What a ridiculous way to develop a product.

@KernalPanic
Exactly. The game is not going to properly train people on how to play or manage resources. Instead, players will mash their 2 main attack buttons from level 1-100 while everything is handed to them.

And as mentioned:

- Gear: Don't need to manage it because you can beat it naked.
- God Mode: Basically get unlimited potions and health globes.
- CC: Who cares? Mash attack buttons, CC is a waste of time.
- Pulling: Pull as many mobs as you want, you'll never risk death.
- Boss: Tank and spank them all. Zerg it!
- Stats (auto-pick): Good thing I don't have to use my brain to make tough decisions.
- Keybindings: Too confusing for me. Keep them all locked at default.

It's basically an arcade mash-up game with no thought. You zerg everything with unlimited health with no fear of ever dying. Feels like playing on cheats.

I'm still debating on purchasing this - it really kills me inside that the game turned out the way it is since I love the Diablo series.

 

you just described D2 from 1.09 and onward.

 

Wait what? Diablo 2 DIDN'T train anyone how to manage resources. Where the hell are people coming up with this stuff? Did you even play Diablo 2 in the recent years?
Exactly what resources would you manage in D2? Full rejuvs did their job for PvE. Brainless as hell.

 

People please you've played a beta in normal mode, the final game will be much more difficult in higher difficulties. Be assured, you will die...

 

I like how people judge the entire game, and how you will never need to CC, based on essentially the tutorial difficulty up to level 13. REAL DRAMA QUEENS.

 

You guys who are telling "HEY STOP BEING DRAMA QUEENS" are the ones misunderstanding the argument altogether.

Simplification of mechanics =! decrease in game difficulty, and vise versa.

An incredibly complex and convoluted game could easily be made easy to beat by ramping down monster HP/damage and ramping up player HP/damage. In this case it could well be the opposite.

But the thing that most D2 fans are struggling with is the simplification of mechanics, which has nothing to do with how easily you can die in-game.

 

Okay so just to make sure I get this right. You are referring to:

No more picking your stats. Fair enough.
No more skill trees. (I actually don't mind this and kind of like it).
Unable to use all skills on your 1234 binding bar. Also a valid complaint I agree with.

Am I missing anything?

The lack of skill trees is not a big deal though imo. It makes you spend less time trying to make an entirely new character if you want to do something else with the class. In D2 if you wanted to go from fire to cold sorc, you have to remake the entire character all over again. Here it's pretty easy and saves you the trouble of remaking an entire character and lets you focus on gear farming more. It basically gives you access to several builds in one. Nephalem Valor also encourages you to stick with what you've got until you make a new game.

However the above complaints I don't see making the game any harder aside from the third one which doesn't give you access to all skills on the fly. If there was a stats system the game would just evolve to finding the best stat build possible like in D2 and that would be that.

What is your definition of difficulty really? For me the end game PvE is no longer braindead as it was in D2, thus making the game more difficult than D2.


Also to the people who say the beta is too easy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzhoGX_7uFY&feature=related

And this is also a long but great read on D2 vs D3 I came across http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3811455085. I particularly liked the section about stats and how they have changed. Apparently end game gems can give you boosts of up to +58 to a particular stat! Holy...

IF you have 10 gem slots that's a potential 580 points you can dump into 1 stat or diversify.

 

Lets put it this way — how much buttons do you honestly hope to press in pve? I was kiting skeleton king on my dh when i was doing it first time, else i would die. Thats difficult enough for a level 10 normal mode hack n slash game in my book.

I mean sure it could be more difficult but you dont expect to press 30 buttons in pve while every single mob requires a tactic like its hardmode raid boss in wow, right?

As for simplification of mechanics... i am really puzzled. I was playing d2 and i cant recall myself even kiting or pressing more then 3-4 buttons. How is D3 simplified? There are way more skills as far as i can see now.

 

I remember kiting many bosses and elties in d2 with my sorc, also in patch 1.10 they introduce immunities which made my frozen orc specced sorc useless, which in turn made the game much harder.

To me D3 is simplified for 2 main reasons, you cant distribute the stats (like in wow) and from what i have seen in beta there are no skill trees like like in d2. In d3 the skills seem so dull and felt that there is no real choice.

I also felt that the Beta was easy, i never died with my monk and rarely used potions, but you have to keep in mind that there 4 difficulties now (afaik) normal,nightmare,hell and inferno.

 

Can't complain about the beta being easy as any good game has a difficulty ramp and that was only the first dungeon. It's sure to get harder.

Games suck if they hit you up front with a difficulty wall rather than having a nice ramp.

 

Again, not talking about artificial difficulty, won't talk about it.

As for relevant discussion, yes the two main simplifications are on stats and skill customization. Stats could have easily been revamped to work better in D3, earlier renditions of D3 even had great stats systems, and about 1/3 way down the development cycle bam, they deemed it imperfect and scrapped the whole thing altogether.

Ditto with skills.

The impact is not immediate, but you have to think in the long run, what is the deepest motivation for playing Diablo II the 5000th time, that makes it so different from every other game? It's because of its exquisite ability to make you feel like you build a comprehensive character from ground up, with the trinity of stats, skills, and items. Everything is permanent, and there is a "buildup" of power progression as your stats slowly build, and your core skills gradually increase in skill levels, as well as burst increases in power from new and better gear.

Sure it gets tedious at times, but by streamlining and ultimately removing pretty much two from this trinity of solidified customisations, you lose something important. It'll be easier, gameplay will feel more action-y and you will need to plan less, but ultimately the feeling of character bond in D2 will not be there in D3.

IMHO that is what makes the difference between an immortalized game and 'just' a great game.

Edit: oh as for the skill runes system, it's wonderful and honestly is my favorite thing out of D3, but alas the only thing it does is increase the raw size of the skill pools, nothing more. The character permanence / building issue I lay out above is not at all absolved by this or a thousand other superficial attempts at increasing variations of particular things.


Edit 2: the discussions at this blog post
http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/bashiok-and-the-customizable-story#comments
Partially touches upon my point; you could see both sides of the argument and frankly that should be like that. Again my opinion is my opinion and I stand by that particular side of things, among many others.

Missing my point still. Artificial difficulty has nothing to do with the discussion here. The issue is over-simplification/streamlining of game mechanics impacting the permanence and sense of character-building.

 

I saw the video above and sorc killing stuff with a sword on inferno seems like enough customization and variety.

I dont get how you are trying to connect customization with difficulty. Customization is the ability to kill in various ways and difficulty represents the ability to kill in at least one way.

Are you trying to say there wont be enough viable builds? (random guess)

 

If you dont enjoy planning out every detail of your character, calculating the stats and skills in order to make something that feels truly like your own invention instead of having it all handed to you then you will never understand what we are missing when they decided to remove manual stat allocation and skill trees.
Just becouse you dont enjoy or undestand something doesnt mean its stupid and useless to the rest of us.
Thank god theyre making the enhanced edition of Baldurs Gate, cant wait for that to release.

 

There's still some planning on what skill build to choose... it took over three hours for my housemate and I to decide a build for our Demon hunter and Monks while playing hardcore. Theory crafting that its going to be really hard.

 

Ill never understand the hoopla about removing stat allocation and skills trees from D3. They were the most artificial form of customization in any game (and this is from someone who was still playing D2 a month ago). Watch the Jay Wilson interview on the topic, he explains their views on the systems very well, and he's bang on. Stat allocation was completely cookie cutter. If you varied from the mode, you were actively gimping your character. Skills trees were exceptionally limited and offered nowhere near the choice you get in D3 (not to mention were also extremely cookie cutter).

If you are missing a sense of permanence and connection to your character, play hardcore. That'll sort out your issues pretty quickly.

 

It's hopeless, there's a HUGE divergence of opinion toward the matter here and everywhere else toward the issue with D3. And no one is or will be willing to change camp. I think we can all see it.

Ah well.

 

If people didn't know, you can still "customize" stats. The only thing has changed is the way to do it. Stats now come from items and gem slots and you can add up to +58 to a stat from a single gem. Also every single stat is actually useful now. In D2 everything was either mass dumped into vitality, or partially into dexterity (because it added block %, melee chance to hit %). In D3 barbs get a 1% damage boost for every point in strength. Dexterity adds a dodge rate. Vitality is the same. Intelligence adds damage reduction. So you no longer have only 2 useful stats. At the D2 endgame, you weren't doing it right if you put a single point into strength or energy (unless you were an ES sorc).

 

That's not better.

I hope you've played Diablo 2. In Diablo 2 you get just as much stat customization from items / charms / quest rewards. It's just that it also has manual stat assignment on top of that.

Granted it was not balanced as you said, but this loops back to the original discussion, in that why the heck did Blizzard NOT improve upon that stat system, instead of just removing it, especially since they've worked out how to make each stat work?

Again, what's done is done.

 

I think the change of "creating game"/"joining game"to "force to follow quest" have more impact on the game play compare to character customization ~~

Anyways, I don't care what is removed and changed, I just want a fun game. Make time Hurry up and release the damn game already LOL.

 

I don't know if anyone played Titan Quest but Diablo 3 feels identical to it (e.g. portals, shrines, even the way dropped items fall), however I never played Diablo 2 so maybe Titan Quest was a clone itself.

 

lol i just missed this

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

You do realize that Titan Quest is a clone of the diablo series?

 

alot of games are errm clones of some other games.i do like diablo still

 

whats the cheapest place to buy d3?
My battle.net is showing me a price in my local currency, approximately $82
EIGHTY TWO? wow

 

TitanQuest arguably has better graphics than Diablo 3, LOL.

 

You missed mine... which was that the very same place in D2 had these choices and thus taught you to play the game.

You may not be observant enough to figure out that you do not need to even bother with any of the game mechanics from 1-13 in D3, but many people have and are also upset with it.

D2 wasn't difficult by any stretch of the imagination.
Why would you make it even easier?

Btw, the hammerdin was just everybody else copying a build someone made and experimented with. There will be no need for such "builds" in D3.

Indeed, everyone will level 1 of each class to max and have no point in ever levelling another toon again.

For those of us who prefered to blaze trails instead of following, this joy is lost. Every max-level toon will only vary by equipment, and eventually this will go away too.

In D2, even when you found the perfect build(s) there were always theme builds that weren't quite so optimal, but were fun. No more meleemancers or melee-sorcs.

PvP in D2 was pitiful and skillless. (tying shoes is harder than PvP in D2) It was a matter of X build using Y broken mechanic with Z items. Most of it was 1-hit or 100->0 stunlock. (in the case of similar toons, first stun wins) This is one place they could massively improve it... but due to the system they have put in place will become pay to win.

FYI, the D3 forums are FULL of people who agree that D3 has lowered its standards.

Thank heavens for a whole closed thread and repeated closed threads of supposed "drama queens" with enough know-how to realize a problem when they see it and try to get it corrected.

I can see D4 as a movie-game where you click once (clicking twice is too hard) and watch a movie of your combo-class barbarian-wizard-monk(choosing a class is too hard) kicking the crap out of everything in one punch(more than that is longer than their attention spans) and then spounting a fountain of all the best gear (collecting gear is too hard and takes too long) flashing "YOU WIN" in large letters (to make sure they feel good about it).

If D3 stays how it is, I will not be interested in another Blizzard product.

 

I don't get what you're trying to say? Did you just want a rehash of Diablo 2? I mean hey Diablo 2 still exists, you can keep going and play that all you want. Also how is Diablo 3 easier? It has been stated time and time again that PvE is significantly harder and takes a lot of co ordination in co-op.
I just see all these complaints because people don't want anything new or different it seems. Diablo 3 has many needed improvements over D2. PvP was very skill varied based on class. Hammerdins were brainless as hell, charge around and hammer. However try playing a wind druid or a ww assassin. You had to manage recasting abilities as well as catching up to opponents to kill them. This was no easy feat on ww sins. They relied on stunlock to keep you in place and first off it wasn't even that easy catching someone with it. If you got hit by it then it's your own fault. Skill was definitely a factor in D2 based on which class you were playing.

Who says you can't make builds in D3? Builds are now just more gear focused rather than artificially skill and stat point focused. Everyone has the same character and access to all skills, it's just the gear that sets you apart.

Also define "Blaze trails". You could go experiment with classes all you want but there were only a handful of optimal builds. Go ahead and make your glacial spike sorc and see how far that gets you when you fight monsters immune to everything.

You should really read this: Character Customization Explained - Updated!! - Forums - Diablo III where he compares all the differences between Diablo 2 and Diablo 3 before just blatantly putting out a verdict. I had my qualms too when I heard about the lack of Diablo 2 esque features but reading about why these decisions were made and actually thinking of how Diablo 2 was at the endgame, it made sense for a lot of these features (except the real money AH).

Honestly it just seems all these complaints are just "Why is Diablo 3 =! Diablo 2? I was expecting an exact copy and paste just with new graphics!"


This is really kind of like the transition from Marvel vs. Capcom 2 -> 3. In the old game there were only like 6 tournament viable characters out of 56. There was an overhaul of the mechanics and removed several imbalances the old game had, and made almost all characters tournament viable. People still complained calling the game crap etc. In the end people will complain about anything and everything despite the new system being better overall.

 

I've played enough MMO's and RPG's to understand that options and choice != options and choice. As soon as the nerd factory release the "cookie cutter" builds, those who take their gaming serious have all of their choice removed. Removing skill point distribution is an improvement in my view. The only purpose skill points served was making the uninformed easily identifiable. Some people prefer playing the game, and then there are those who massively enjoy crunching numbers on skill and talent builds and min/max situations. Sure it ruins the fun for the latter, but these people aren't really playing the game anyway.

I am a bit fearful when Blizzard says they plan on giving options and customization through the gear, because as any WoW veteran will tell you, there is no such thing as choice in gear! You either have the best in slot, or you don't. I remember my time playing EQ; you almost never saw people with identical gear. Blizzard, keep your promise and give us options and customization through items! Make them very unique, and very equal!

 

Yes items were the heart of Diablo 2. IIRC there were only a handful of perfectly rolled rares and crafts in Diablo 2, which were mass duped and then became commonplace. I wasn't even sure which of those were actually legit drops and which were hacked items. With duping out of the question in Diablo 3, all these godly rare items will not be mass distributed. I think in D3 rares and crafts function similar to D2. Random rolls with large value ranges in terms of stats and you have a pretty low chance of getting perfect stats on everything. Runewords don't exist yet and I'm not sure about uniques. However I know more items will come post launch and with expansions. Yay loot!

 

You mean: Yay grind! ?

or spend some hard cash

 

Just wanted to say I read through that link. What a great series of posts. Also I also thought of the whole MvC2 MvC3 fiasco. It was just a bunch of nostalgia blinded gamers who couldn't accept any form of change. But if you look now, MvC3 is possibly the most hyped and most watched fighting game in the US. D3 will be the same way. People will cry and moan but in the end, it will be a great game with a strong community backing it.

When D4 comes out someday, the cycle of nostalgic whiners will probably come out again because it wasn't a copy and paste of D3 with new graphics.

 

Gear in D3 will be very different from WoW. There are best-in-slot items because the stats are static. Everything is random in D3.

Even crafting will be random and fresh. There's no info on legendary recipies yet, but the lv60 rares on the d3 website show that the items will have a base DPS or Armor + 4 random properties. If you get lucky, those items will be godly.

I just really don't understand where you are coming from with this. Are you actually basing your conclusions on the first 7 to 8 levels of the game? The equivalent of Blood Raven in D2? Beta isn't the full actI, just keep that in mind. Even the leaked areas back in march which was the next few zones after the skeleton king showed a huge spike in difficulty with many different enemy variants, champion/rare attributes, etc.

I'll admit that in the early stages of Beta, it was too easy, but then they SIGNIFICANTLY increased both the damage and health of monsters, removed overpowered crafting recipies that gave rediculous damage and health, and now the diffuculty for the d3 equivalent of "Blood Moor, Cold Plains and Burial Grounds" feels just right. Heck even at level 13 which significantly out-levels the content of the beta, with 4 players in the game a pack of champions and/or rare monsters is quite challenging and fun.


And there WILL be choices. the fact that there are over 1 TRILLION skill combinations, is the mathematical proof, but also think about it in a strategic way. Heard of that Nephalem Valor Buff? The +MF for all party members as you kill champion/rare mob packs and continues to stack for an unknown amount of MF, but resets if anyone Respecs. I can see people joining a 4 player game, seeing which classes are there and discussing with each other what skills would be beneficial for their specific game. Get a Witch Doctor to grab Big Bad Voodoo, Get a monk to Grab their healing spell, get a Demon Hunter to get some nice traps for snares, etc. There will be a great deal of discussion for optimal builds for all combinations of classes, acts, etc. It will not only boost the customization of the game but will also enhance the community as a whole to work together, own some monsters and get some PHAT LEWTS

 

"In D3, you learn only that you are unkillable and don't even need potions, equipment, or frankly anything but click=win."

Wut? Diablo 2 wasn't click = win? And you were even more "unkillable" in Diablo 2 than in Diablo 3. I'm so confused as to how you are even coming up with this stuff. It's like you did almost no research into the game and how hard it actually is.

 

Diablo 3 is now dead to me unless Blizzard takes away "Internet Connection is required" crap.

 

I played the sorceress 1-13 with two skills and not even bothering to upgrade her equipment. She finished the beta nakid with her newbie wand.
I did this to test difficulty on the squishiest toon I could find. No deaths, no potions, no need for any mechanic at all save "use magic missile when out of arcane power".

I played through as a barb spamming one skill (cleave) I did upgrade his weapon from the newbie one, but stopped bothering after level 5 or so. I never retreated... I never did anything but click on the mob, I never used any other skill save to play with new ones as I got them. I never used a potion or had to retreat. I never even came close to dying.

While D2 wasn't difficult at all, you at least had to use different skills and not upgrading equipment made things very difficult.
The two examples above are FAR easier than D2 ever was.

Either you people are absolutely horrible play testers, or you think tying your shoes is hard. When the tactics "charge forward spamming one skill" are valid in every case, the game is too easy.

Did you guys even play the beta, or are you just blindly posting?

 

Going to have to agree with this.

It's mind-numbingly easy to the point that I was watching television, eating with my left hand, thinking of school/shopping/work, etc. Everything BUT the game was on my mind because of how simple it was.

If I were to load up any other game I have installed, I would be immediately immersed into the gameplay. I wouldn't eat, I wouldn't watch TV and I wouldn't sit there with random thoughts - I would only have the game on my mind.

For someone to even consider this game being difficult at all is beyond me.

Blizzard is doing to D3 what they've done with WoW. BC is the best most fair example - you used to have to earn your gear and it would take a decent amount of time to achieve a full set of good gear. Now, I can log in and get nearly the best gear in the game in under a week. Might as well just fill up my virtual mailbox full of gear as a "thank you" for logging in. Blizzard knows that this attracts the masses so they've decided to make D3 super-easy in order to achieve high sales and retain the masses. This way they'll not only get the 59.99$, but massive profits % cuts from the real money auction house due to the higher player population.

 

Exactly this was my feel last weekend with the hour or two spent on the demo.

 

I Guarantee that I can beat up to blood raven with a sorc, using no upgraded items and only two skills as you mentioned. Lets say Firebolt and Frost armor for example.

Yes, I have played the beta numerous times since I was invited in January. I also have the mindset that while playing it, that it is THE FIRST FEW ZONES AND LEVELS OF THE GAME, so difficulty, no matter how easy, has nothing to do with how the rest of Normal will play/feel like let alone the whole game including the 4th difficulty level, inferno. And you wont be able to spam full-rejuv potions like you do in d2 for unlimited life, or quick tp instantly to run away from your death.

We take things for granted in this day in age of full access to the whole development process, bigger betas, etc. When I was playing the Diablo 2 beta it was also super easy. Granted you could only be a barbarian.

I agree that the content in the beta is easy, but I'm just saying don't judge the whole game by the first few zones and the first 8 levels of the game.

 

I am going to have to agree with Ktulu. One simply can't base an argument around this demo that doesn't even contain the first act. Just part of it. When it releases then we should judge how hard or easy it is. We are getting upset at something that hasn't even released yet.

 

Holy crap are you joking? Okay let me go play some RPGs like Fallout or Skyrim on the easiest difficulty and call them mind numbingly easy and boring as hell. Profound logic right there. Hey guess what, I found the Diablo 3 beta stupidly easy as well. Tell you what. There's a Diablo 2 ladder reset happening soon, in like a week or so. Why don't you guys go play that because it gives you a chance to start fresh with everyone else. Come back and tell me how hard it is when you play through half of act 1 of normal please. Thanks.

 

Shina, have you ever played D2?
Most of us who have played have done this so many times we lost count.

If you haven't there is no need to worry about ladder... play a single player game on normal an level 1-13. Pick a sorceress or barbarian as those two are directly translated to D3. Don't cheat, just play the game as intended.

Play levels 1-13 in D2 and compare them to 1-13 in D3.

Honestly, you don't find D3 even easier than D2?

A D2 sorceress must manage mana, and if you are a fire sorc, even 1-13 you will face immune mobs. Trying to forge through with only the newbie staff isn't easy and really isn't very practical. If you add in no potions, no tactics and just running up to everything and clicking you will likely die mutiple times.

A D2 Barb is plenty easy, but you cannot spam an aoe skill without worrying about mana in early levels! You CAN fight without worrying about skills, but it is usually fastest to use skills. Now try just charging ahead without using potions... I bet you don't die... but you DO have to run or use a potion from time to time.

Note, assuming someone who has played D2 before, they start with knowledge of D2 that really none of us has with D3.

The only way you could possibly believe D3 isn't insultingly easier than D2 is if you never played D2 or never played D2 without cheating.

 

Seriously do levels 1-13 even matter? I could level that in an hour or two in D2. You're basically arguing as if you will be stuck playing from level 1-13 the entire game. Okay so maybe D3 has an easier level 1-13 than D2. So what? Have you tried any of the other difficulties in D3? I haven't, and neither has anyone else who has played the beta just like you and me. Have you tried hell difficulty on a high level character in D2? I have. It's a complete and utter joke difficulty wise.

What you are saying is akin to reading the first chapter of a book and calling it crap, or watching the first 10 minutes of a movie and saying its terrible or boring. Do you want to try to even play the rest of the game before calling judgement? I can't believe you are more concerned about how hard the first 12 levels are going to be rather than the later difficulties. Makes no sense whatsoever.

Here let me lay it out in foolproof terms for you. Fill in the blank. If a game has difficulties easy normal hard and hardest. I am playing on the easy difficulty. Therefore I would expect the game to be ____?

 

Guys guys guys come on! The "normal" difficulty is ALWAYS to catch up the story! after that I don't think it will be as easy as you think .

Can't wait! One of the main reasons for getting a new laptop is Diablo 3! .

 

I think I'll be going to Barb as a first class and then most likely Monk. Man I want to see Call to Ancients in action so badly. I wonder how strong it is. Seeing as they give you a passive skill to reduce the CD by 30 seconds and the rune to increase the duration by 5 seconds you get a 50 second cooldown skill. Also apparently a lot of D2 uniques are making a return. Yay.

 

Well I just decided to pre-order! Anyone know if I can use a Retail key to get the digital download?


Had to buy the retail version from Amazon because they didn't have the digital download and I had a gift card + 25% off any purchase.

 

Yay! Let's play together! I'll be making a monk for softcore and hardcore. Hardcore for enjoying the story with my housemate and softcore for rushing through to experience the difficulties so that I can be prepared in hardcore.

 

Did someone play it using an eGpu ? I'd like to play it using [email protected] & i5

 

Playing Skyrim on master difficulty with a 4x difficulty mod is boring and too easy. What's your point?

 

For sure! I will probably make a Wizard or a Witch Doctor. Ya I am looking forward to Inferno mode. I will msg you my name when I get it.