GTX 285M vs. ATI 5870 mobile

Vantage 4870 crossfire qx9300 at 2.93ghz

 

Primary reason i do it is simply because i cant take a desktop with me

and i love being able to make peoples Jaw drop with a laptop that can max crysis with 2 x aa

 

We don't have to argue when there's benchmarks to prove that theory....so far I still havent seen any benchmarks to prove this theory right. As it still stands

4870xfire>285gtxsli>280sli>5870.

Unless I'm mistaken and there's been somebody who's recently outdone 4870's?

 

it was right the first time...

 

what you mean the 285 sli beat the 4870 crossfire???

pman i'll go up against you.

someone with an r2 and a 920m would be better....

 

i should be getting mine next week donald and your on

 

can't wait.

you sold your np9850???

 

I this challenge going to be on Pay Per View?

 

yup

new machine expected wednesday/thursday

specs in sig

P.s confirmed i got a special bios

 

oh i am sure the blood will be flying on nbr

 

Now now, play nice

Btw, I'd put my money on Pman's vote being about correct as well

Depends on whether you're benching or not. We know the GTX285 and 4870 are both about 10% stronger in games from information (although the GTX285 doesnt fair so well at benches) when compared to the GTX280. The clocks on the cards dont entirely explain why, but the 285 does seem to perform slightly better from the in game results I've seen than its tweaked clocks would suggest.

This would suggest the current hierarchy is as such until new cards from Nvidia, or a 5870m crossfire model hits the market:

GTX285 SLI/4870XFire>GTX280MSLI>4850XFire>5870M>GTX285m/4870m>GTX280m>4850m

Now the above is at stock. Heavily clocked setups may throw the balance, we already know heavily overclocked 5870s start to toe near the edge of the GTX280m SLI and 4850 Xfire setups.
Heavily overclocked it could go either way. The ATI cards also have benefits, like Pman I would have liked a crossfire setup, but its just not happening right now, and Im not willing to go back to AW anytime soon until they take a serious look at thier customer relations.

 

i would have loved to get 5870's in SLI

unfortunatley they are just not available. They are unlikley to be available for some time either. There is even questions as to if they will be available on MXM3 when they do come out

heavily clocked systems seem to swing one way to the other 4870's and 285's

guess dondah and i will showdown

 

If you are going to do benchmarking you'll have to beat Mandrake's numbers on the XF 4870. Over 20,000 on 3DMark06 and over 14,000 on Vantage.

Both Moo, and Mandrake scored over 10,000 on GPU for Vantage on a single HD5870.

Mandrake broke 17,000 on 3DMark06 on a single HD5870/920XM G73 also.

HD5870 can sustain clocks over 920 on Core and 1250 on Memory.

 

a 285 won't beat a 5870. And overclocking is worse. It is the same as the 80 whiich I had and when it came to overclocking, you cann easily find out the max on the core/shader/memory...

but vs the 4870 and the 285 stock is a different story. I saw justin got 10_600 on the gpu stock no tweaks with the 285 sli. I know with my 280m sli the highest I got stocked/tweaked was 10_555 so I believe it will be interesting.

 

This will be fun but no doubt , GTX285M sucks compared to 5870 but does GTX285M SLI suck compared to 4870 crossfire? Can't wait for this epic battle... and ppl remmeber to play good

 

me and dondah been there and done this before

this will be round 2

looks like we might have to make a 285 vs 4870 thread :smile:

GPU score i seen from a mate of mine with dual 285's scored 10900, whats your stock gpu score dondah?

 

well aware of drakes scores, he and i have history

285 wont beat a 5870 one on one simple as that. But more interested on the 4870 vs 285 in dual setups as they are currently the market leaders for performance. Doesnt matter how strong the 5870 is, unless they have it in Xfire will always be second best

 

Yeah the old M17x r1 vs a revised Clevo is not so interesting....Mandrake got about 22k in 3dmark06, and 142xx in Vantage with the R2, I'll dig them up sometime. The fight against the M17x R2 is gonna be alot more interesting game benches wise.

 

well it doesnt matter that much really

the i7 vs qx9300 doesnt make that much difference against each other in games

 

Not true at all....if your showdown is about benching then it will make a difference. Also not accounting the factor of a superior motherboard that the M17x R2's and the 8100 have as compared to their old model counterparts.

It's not really a fair competition unless you do the R2 vs the 8100.....The R1 fully specced out vs the R2 fully specced out gets beaten pretty handidly in ALL benches, whether 3dmark or in game by the R2.

 

Umm Moo scored over 10,000 for GPU score on a single HD5870.

And I scored 8,500 on GPU on settings I use when I game daily. I'm not impressed with the dual 285s considering how much they cost.

 

not at stock he didnt



from his own review you can see the card is heavily clocking up

when my 280's were clocked up i got over 12k

 

No kidding. The point was it's not that impressive if a single card can be overclocked to almost the same score as dual 285s...
- It's proving that as others have said before, SLI and XF do not provide the extra power you would expect. It's not worth it as you can just wait until next gen GPU and buy that instead of wasting it now on dual.

 

also we dont know how much the 285's will get when they are clocked up as i dont know of any dedicated benchers who beat the death out of it

edit: still 20% difference and costwise in the uk its not that more expensive for the larger screen, extra hdd bay, extra gpu etc

 

That isn't a fair comparison to make because everyone knows prices in UK are really messed up. Only rivaled by Australia. So while everything may be insanely pricey in UK and it's worth it to you, everywhere else, the dual system costs almost twice as you would pay for single.

Since this forum isn't dedicated to the UK making such comparisons in a thread like this makes no sense.

And I'm abstaining from this thread as it's no longer a discussion of HD5870 vs GTX285 and that question has already been answered. Now it's just brawl fest between two insanely pricey dual GPU systems.

Pman have fun.

 

I guess I should start 'training' for the competition.

 

Battlefield Bad Company 2 - ATI 5870 vs nVidia 285

Shows the 5870 performing much better than the 285, while the 5850 is more on par with the 285.

*edit* sorry I forgot, I believe these are desktop cards and not the mobile versions..

 

There's really no comparison IMO, just look at the amount of people sending back their Sagers for a GPU swap to 5870 should tell you how badly 285M is doing now, and clevo/sager is the only brand with laptops with single card 285M (wait a minute, I think it's also the only brand with SLI 285M as well), so that should account for quite a large amount of 285M owner population.

 

This thread is absolutely hilarious and entertaining. Nvidia fanboys are resorting to comparing 2 GPU's vs a single GPU? Time for a dose of reality, 5870 utterly destroys Nvidia's current lineup when you do a fair apple for-apple single GPU comparison. And the fact that you can get it in a notebook for $1429 (what I paid) it is just absolutely embarassing and brings to question someone's intelligence when they snag a 285m machine at this point.

 

But that comparison isn't apples-to-apples, though. You're comparing two different brands with different build qualities.

 

5870>285m

end of story
its also cheaper
whats the point of discussing this unless you're a stubborn nvidia fanboy?

 

>Pman You are so far off topic it's silly.


GTX 285M vs. ATI 5870 mobile (single)

ATI Eyefinity advanced multiple-display technology 3-6 displays on one card (Actual number of attachable monitors will vary by notebook model.)

nView Multi-Display Technology 2 displays on one card

ATI 5870 low energy consumption ~ 60W (unconfirmed)

Nvidia 285M ~ 75W

ATI Stream technology vs Nvidia CUDA Technology ? any experiences ?


Full HD decoding : ATI 5870 - 2 streams - Nvidia 285M - 1 stream at a time.

ATI 5870 - HD Audio over HDMI - Nvidia 285M no audio

ATI 5870 - cheaper

Nvidia - more reliable drivers so far (from what I've heard)

Do correct me if Im wrong.

 

Sounds about right.

 

Yep there is no doubt the 5870m is the stronger card 1:1, the problem comes in where in certain areas, the UK being one of them, a dual card machine isn't THAT much more expensive than a single card setup, because of how inflated machine costs can be (you're basically talking the extra cost of the card between chassis). Now the UK is one such place, but AU, several parts of Europe, and several other places worldwide also suffer in comparison to the US, it's not just the UK which has OTT prices, and its a bit of a generalisation to say actually no, its just the UK, everywhere else has a more even spread of machine costs, and the single GPU machine is always much cheaper. Not really the case, it'd be more accurate to say that...actually it's just much cheaper in the US, so therefore US based single GPU comparisons are unfair and should be discounted because this forum doesnt just serve the Americas .
Dual gpu vs single GPU is somewhat offtopic, but its fairly easy to see where the discussion has come from, as this forum doesnt just serve the US, and by all rights, dual GTX285 will be faster than a 5870 single card for at least popular games, or those you make a decent profile for, and many dedicated gamers buying these machines, at least outside the US, will probably consider the jump to the larger more capable machines, becuase unlike the US, the price differential is no where near as high.

Just a shame we're not seeing 5870m crossfire machines, or this whole argument would be null and the GPU tables'd be undisputed.

The above comparison on features is about right though, although actual power consumption may be slightly different to the rated, I dont think anyones actually compared directly with the same machine and both cards

 

Actual power consumption is actually about 50W.

And ONLY ATi is providing monthly mobile driver updates.

Video encoding, Nvidia still wins with 16 ref for x264, and ATi is only 4 ref @ 1080p (BluRay standard only).

ATi Mobiles are capable of EyeFinity, Asus did not do it, but would not be surprised if Clevo can do it with DVI/HDMI outputs.

 

really? cheapest sli machine is 2k, single card machines are all under 1.5k.
500 pounds is alot of money for a 8800gt.

 

Last I checked they were available a bit less than that, what can I say, prices have fluctuated a lot with the dollar recently so it does vary. (I know towards the end of the M980NU's life it was actually about £250-300 difference for example, and the RAM I was considering buying was about £50 cheaper about a month ago.)
MXM parts are not cheap at all, so I tend to consider about £300 as price of card, and its often not just the card you're paying for, its often better cooling, larger screen and more HDD bays, so again a little price discrepency to discover this can usually be tolerated.

Prices difference in America is wider as far as I know, for example they can buy the raw chassis much easier than we can in the UK.

 

9 Pages later, no one will ever know and the fanboys still rages on.

 

I think thats already been answered, SEVERAL times. The 5870m is the fastest *single* mobile card on the market right now.

The debate has now turned to what is *THE* fastest mobile setup, which as there is no 5870m crossfire machine out right now, falls somewhere between the GTX285 SLI and 4870m Xfire.

 

http://www.kobaltcomputers.co.uk/acatalog/g890.html
http://www.kobaltcomputers.co.uk/acatalog/g870.html
over 500pounds difference for a slightly bigger screen, and two 285m vs single 5870.

 

ii still think the 4870 cf is faster then the 285 sli stocked...

 

Yes it is now, but not always, and part of the larger difference right now is because of higher ordering costs, and the simple fact the GTX285 is more expensive than the 5870. If you compare GTX285 to GTX285 its actually slightly smaller, plus again you get slightly larger screen, and more HDD bays. You're basically paying £100-150 for the larger screen and additional drive capacity and £300 for the card.
If you could get dual 5870s the G890 would now doubt be about £100 cheaper overall for a start.

 

I would agree, this thread essentially has turned into what's the point of even buying Nvidia anymore...and the common answer to that it seems is if you buy SLI setups, yet even there I expect the 4870's to be faster considering...

285's are just upclocked hand picked 280's, and we've already seen the results of owners of the M17x who had extremely high overclockable 280 cards, and even at their best could not top the 4870's.

There's really nothing to assume about these 285's will beat the 4870's even more so considering the limited OC'ing ability of the 8100...

IMO ATI wins in both single and dual cards

 

Aye, Nvidia are really losing out in the value market. You know they're losing out when the GTX285 costs more than the 5870 which is most certainly a faster, better card overall *for gaming...if you need CUDA not so much *

Personally I wouldnt buy a Dell again after being at the recieving end of EU "support", so my mind was made for me, and I'll wait til the next round of GPUs.

Still I look forward to seeing the overclockers get hold of the GTX285, just to see what they CAN do.

 

I like how people in this thread speak on my behalf as an M17x owner.

With all due respect, generally M17x owners do get a better edge with 4870s, but that doesn't mean that some of them aren't having exceptional experience. So in that spirit, please, do not speak on my behalf, as I too am an M17x owner. Thank you! You guys can't account for my experiences or views.

Cheers.

 

I'm not sure where in this thread people "were speaking for your experiences"? The only areas of the M17x being cited in this thread is its benchmarks, which is beyond the scope of heresay and moreso just hard evidence..... I dont think anyone is trying to generalize the M17x or generalize the G73H experiences people have had here, we're just talking benchmarks and which cards are faster.

 

Actually, your post did come across as such, but perhaps I am wrong.

Anyway, I am actually very happy and quite impressed with my Crysis benchmarks, and more importantly, in-game performance. But that is just me, enjoying the cards at stock settings. I have no interest in splitting hair over differences of 18-to-20 in truly intensive scenarios where GPU power becomes paramount. Menial differences in performance bore me; synthetics bore me even further. Which is why I am interested in only the new 5870s in Xfire solution as a true step forward in terms of performance. Nvidia are clearly falling behind, but battles between 4870s and G92 over the most feeble of performance gains and differences are also redundant. The horse is long dead in the ground. But like I said - that's just me. . . I in no way represent the rest of the M17x commune, or any single individual within that commune.

No offence to anyone either. It is quite a true statement that 5870s are in another league now and the 285m GTX is a very fast card but still older tech and barely a fraction faster than the 280m GTX.

 

Question: why are they developing all this "ATI Stream technology" and "Nvidia CUDA" when there is OpenCL ?? I don't get it.

 

IIRC ATI Stream runs on top of OpenCL (it's a slightly easier way to access it, think a development framework), now I could be [very] wrong with this as I dont tend to pay that much attention to GPGPU!
Nvidia are still developing CUDA because OpenCL is much newer, doesn't have much support YET and CUDA has already caught on in some markets, making them money.
Once programmes have taken up OpenCL, they will likely adopt it, but Nvidia are traditionally a fan of closed/controlled standards, and whilst they maintain a feature lead, they will not drop it.

 

thanx. Yes there seams to have been plans to merge them at some point but it's hard to tell where we are now.

http://www.geeks3d.com/20081212/nvidia-cuda-and-opencl-roadmaps-cuda-ptx-bytecode/