Geforce 8700M GT vs. Geforce 7950 GTX + New games

Yeah I know mate I recommend that you also read hhttp://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=136138

"Notice the XFX 8600 GT actually performs very close to the 7950 GT in 3DMark06. (just like what we're seeing with the mobile cards)

But then look at the game benchmarks. In FEAR at 1600x1200 (the blue lines), the 7950 GT (AKA, Go 7950 GTX) averages 42 FPS vs. the XFX 8600 GT (AKA, 8700M GT) at 25. Or look at Prey. Again at 1600x1200 (the blue line), the 7950 GT gets 50.1, vs. the overclocked 8600 GT's 29.8.

Of course, this isn't a perfect comparison - you probably won't see those exact framerates, for example, the desktop has a Core 2 X6800, and 1600x1200 isn't a typical laptop resolution (but it is close to 1680x1050). But this just gives an idea of how these two cores with similar clock speeds perform relative to each other.

It doesn't look good for the 8700M GT."

I know the 8700 looks good on paper, however I'm not sure whether that is also the case when it comes to the game performance. At least that's not what this test says.

I'll stick to the 7950 which has already proved itself

 

Heres a post with 7950GTX Laptops in the UK

Since they're all the same price I'd suggest the Alienware because of the ability to order it with XP pro, with a 7950GTX you won't be needing Vista

 

You can get any of the Rock 770s with a 7950 GTX you just pay £100 extra for the it. I'm just wondering if it's worth it compared to the 8700m GT 512.

 

If you want to play games at 1680×1050 or 1920x1200 you should get the 7950 since it still is the most powerfull notebookcard. I personally don't think the 8700 will be able to play games at the nativ resolution of the m570ru, just look at the sager benchs...

 

I did hear though that the 3DMark program or whatever doesn't utilise the 8-series cards well or something along thoughs lines and benchmarks don't mean in-game performance, so I guess a little waiting is in order.

 

Even with that card you can't play all games at 1680*1050 or higher!

A game like dirt is playable with 30 fps when i use the resolution of 1280*768, 2xAA and medium/high settings. Also i think you can't play oblivion smooth @1680*1050 or higher...

 

IF that's the case what's the 'best' res for a 17" witha 8700m GT or a 7950 GTX in more recent games you'd say? On my last build (gave it up so I could concentrate on work) I had a X800 XL and played at 1024 x 768 on 'most' games (F.E.A.R. include) and they were 'playable'. As I want to buy a Rock Xtreme 770 I rather have a system that I wouldn't have to 'add/change' much in a few years time (3-4) as I'll be a uni student.

EDIT: Oh yeah and most of the settings I used were high or near high (didn't use AA much as I didn't see much of a difference).

 

Actually its the opposite, the 8 series drivers are optimised for 3DMark06 and tend to score high compared to the 7xxx

WSXGA would be the best combo of servicelength and eye candy, although with WXG the 8700 could turn on the pretty DX10 effects, like streetlamps casting shadows simultaneously with the moon on soldiers (New CoH expansion screenshots)

 

I foound this after searching on the net..

"NVIDIA has launched the latest mobile graphics processor targeting mobile enthusiast segments – the GeForce 8700M GT. The new GeForce 8700M GT is the latest addition to NVIDIA’s GeForce 8M lineup and joins the previously released GeForce 8600M and 8400M model lineup.

The new GeForce 8700M GT replaces the existing GeForce Go 7950 GTX as the top dog of NVIDIA’s notebook lineup. NVIDIA claims 3DMark05 scores of 10,371 with the GeForce 8700M GT on default settings. A comparable GeForce Go 7950 GTX scores 9,395 in 3DMark05. The GeForce 8700M GT is also 27-34% faster than the GeForce Go 7950 GTX in Half Life 2: Lost Coast and Far Cry."

What does everyone think....?

 

Yet they din mention how the 8700 loses to the 7950GTX in higher resolution and more AA.. They should try 3dmark06....

 

So would you say it would be better to get the 7950 first then upgrade when a better DX10 card comes out?

 

It all depends whether if u will change ur notebook in a few years time. If ur changing in 2 years time, i personally think that it is better to stick with the 7950GTX for now. The only thing that would change my statement is that Nvidia brings out the REAL 8800M in the next few months. 8700M GT just doesn't cut it.

 

Well rock have told me that I can ugrade the video card, but they haven't specified what I can upgrade too. Guess I'll know more when more cards are relased by Nvidia, thanks for the advice

 

Rock said that , cool I'll just pray for a 8800m then .

 

My 8600M GT can run anything I throw at it on max (Oblivion for instance) with 40+ FPS I fail to see how he wont be able to use max settings considering dx9 games are not gonna go better then Oblivion makes sense to go for dx10

 

What resolution?

 

My system runs every game on the highest resolution and settings no problem, so I would say without a doubt my system is a GAMING LAPTOP. But it does burn my legs

 

you better not be serious, if you are... then you better be using a notebook cooler/stand.

do I have to give you a lecture on taking care of your gaming notebook ?!?

 

That and if it burns your legs I hope you've already have your share of children.

 

Can anyone confirm that if I were to buy the Clevo M570RU or Rock extreme 770 with a 7950GTX that I could at least upgrade it to a 8700M in the future? I am not familiar with notebook internals - desktop cases are what I have experience with; on that note, I was under the impression that GPUs are notebooks were soldered onto the motherboard, but is this not the case? Or is it just these two laptops? Are there any similiarly configured laptops that have upgradable graphics cards? Sorry for all the questions, I'm just in the market for a gaming laptop sooner rather than later.

 

There is no way to confirm this at the moment . . . I don't see why you won't be able to upgrade but it seems like a waste of money in my opinion. The 8700M-GT's only advantage is it's native DirectX 10.

In my opinion DirectX 10 is not that important right now. DirectX 9 is going to be around for a long, long time.

 

Thats already been confirmed. Go to Sager/Clevo sub forum.

Sager already announced that the M570RU can have either 8700M GT or 7950GTX.

As for the 8800M, it is scheduled to make an appearance in Winter.

The Clevo gaming notebooks are now using a standardized MXM videocard, so future upgrades are definitely expected.

 

Er...no it doesn't not at playable frame rates. Try NWN2. With everything maxed I get about 11FPS at 1900x1200. Bump it down and you can get playable 30FPS.

 

Go 8700m:

1. It's more powerful than the 7950 according to the very producer of the card, Nvidia.

http://www.tech2.com/india/news/gra...a-launches-geforce-8700m-gt-mobile-gpu/7042/0

"The GeForce 8700M GT will be the top chip in NVIDIA’s Mobile stable replacing the existing GeForce Go 7950 GTX. NVIDIA claims 3DMark05 scores of 10,371 with the GeForce 8700M GT on default settings. In comparison the GeForce Go 7950 GTX scores 9,395 in 3DMark05. The GeForce 8700M GT is also 27-34% faster than the GeForce Go 7950 GTX in Half Life 2: Lost Coast and Far Cry."

2. Of couse, the 8700m is DX10 and therefore gives you future playability. New technology takes time to come into the mainstreatm, which is why there aren't many DX10 games out now. 2 or 3 years from now, it'll be quite common. And in 4 years, it'll be standard once more PC owners have adopted the technology necessary (Vista/DX 10 graphics cards).

If you need to buy now, there is no reason to chose the lower model card. None at all according to Nvidia's statistics.

 

claims are not up to par in the numerous tests thus far.

the main drawback of the 8700M GT is it's 128-bit memory interface.... if it hade 256-bit, then it would have become the clear victor.

No high-end videocard to date has been 128-bit.... especially in the recent years since the Nvidia 6800 and ATI X800 series.

 

yes, and AMD said its k10 cpus were X% better than the intel stuff an umpteenth time too

sure, DX10 might be common 2 or 3 years from now, but probably 99% of games will still be dx9 compatible

4 years later and the 8700 will be junk compared to the stuff needed to run new games



if you buy computers/electronics, you buy for the NOW

not the LATER/FUTURE


technology DEPRECIATES

stamps APPRECIATES


if you want to invest in the future, go buy stamps or something

if you want a good comp, then buy what is good now, because you'll have to buy another later either way

If you need to buy now, there is no reason to chose the lower model card. None at all according to Nvidia's statistics.[/QUOTE]

 

I will give it a try.

 

CRF, that system is crazy...haha. That's great. I was checkout out PC Microworks too and they got some solid systems there.


"yes, and AMD said its k10 cpus were X% better than the intel stuff an umpteenth time too"

Yes but I wasn't talking about rival competition here. I'm talking about Nvidia comparing two of their own products that they developed. Unlike across companies, there is no need for misleading information to sell their products over that of another company.


Why so fast to dismiss the claims of Nvidia that the 8700m is their top performing card? It is DX10. It is an 8 series card. You might be a 7950 owner, I don't know. It's now becoming outdated. And if the 8700m isn't outdating the 7950 as the top card, the 8800m will do it withou question. And that's only weeks/months away.

 

Hi guys, I'd also just like to ask a few opinions on these two cards - I'm going to university in september, and am getting a notebook, and as I am seriously into gaming, I have decided to get an Alienware. Right now, they only offer 7950 GTX cards, but apparently, they are offering an upgrade route to the 8M cards in the future. I was just wondering what people think the best option would be for me? I was planning to get two 7950 GTX 512s in sli to give 1Gb graphics memory, but then I wondered if I should try and wait for DX 10 cards. But, from what I've heard here, they don't seem to be much better. Alienware say that they will be able to offer DX10 cards in sli as well. Should I wait for such cards, or are the 7950 GTXs better right now? And does anyone have any idea how much it would cost to upgrade to 8M cards at all? I can't seem to find prices on the cards themselves anywhere.

Thanks in advance for any help anyone can offer.

 

Two 512Mb cards will not give you 1Gb of VRAM, the memory needs to be the same.

We are so fast to dismiss nVidia's claims because they are lieing. In the desktop equivalents (7950GT and 8600(GT or GS?)) (They have the exact same cores as the 7950GTX and the 8700M GT) The 7950GT and the 8600 are close in 3DMark but the 8600 can't keep up in the real world and it struggles with DX9c, it doesn't stand a chance in DX10, so if you buy 8700M GT based on wanting to play at DX10, then thats a foolish decision.

 

8 series is competing against the 7 series

nvidia has to say that dx10 is all wonderful and blah blah blah so they can move the 8 series stuff.

nvidia has a MOTIVE to make you think dx10 = lots better than dx9 because everyone already HAS a dx9 card. they want you to buy a new dx10 card

because its not their top performing card in real life, only in synthetic benchmarks. the 8700m is just a OCed 8600gt, it will scale terribly with AA and resolution compared to the proven 7950.

8800 will probably take the crown, but by how much, no one knows.

 

Agreed - for DX9 gaming, the 7950GTX is still king. Unless you play 3DMarks all day that is.

 

Reading all the posts I am thinking of going for the Alienware 7950 GTX Sli. It should cut the mustard in everything released now and for the next few months and hopefully do pretty well with Crysis. Main qualm is with Vista. I am sure I read somewhere that the drivers aren't there to run Sli in Vista. Is that right? On the Alienware UK site it allows you to customise and select the Sli configuration and choose Vista. Also I know many games perform slower under Vista - despite that am I right in assuming the sli setup even under vista is pretty damn fast? My current desktop has an old ATI Radeon 9800XT 256 meg card - how much faster would Sli 7950Gtx be over that - twice as fast? Several times quicker?

Cheers

 

The thing to realize about the "supposedly new" Alienware 9750 (re-branded Uniwill) is...:
- its old technology (Napa platform)... so too little too late?
- only DX9... which might not matter too much if you dont care about the DX10 eye-candy
- its got no chance for upgrades (old socket Core 2 Duo's & non-MXM videocards)... all of the new high-end DX10 cards are coming on in MXM format... finally.

I would recommend to get a notebook with future upgradeablility:
- Clevo M570RU
- Clevo D900C
- Asus C90S

 

Santa rosa still uses merom processor... The socket has changed however.

 

Hah...alright you two, but most people seem to believe that 8 series cards will handle DX10 games better than they handle DX9 games, correct?

 

Yeah,if microsoft ever releases WDDM 2...

Dx10's main purpose was to increase performance not visuals...

 

I'm not sure about that. I read Anandtechs DX10 report and the results were even worse...

 

this is correct


dx10 cards should in theory perform better than their counterparts in dx9 due to more efficient API

current dx10 games on dx10 cards take a large performance hit relative to dx10 cards playing the dx9 games probably because developers have to make the game compatible for both dx9 and 10 or that they're starting to get used to dx10 programming

most games like CoH just has dx10 hacked on which evidently runs poorly in dx10

 

That makes sense...they added DX10 as a patch for that game if I remember right?


Back to the cards though. I'm a bit put off by the insistence that Nvidia is lying about the benchmarks. I mean between you and Nvidia, you've never so much as seen an 8700m (or probably even a 8600m), so for you to say that the 8700m can't compete with the 7950 seems....a stretch of what you might know.

Right now, we have Nvidia's statistics there, with pure % improvements in the 3 specific games listed. The numbers are there....you can ignore them if you want.

 

The Alienware is a rebranded Arima, with MXM3 cards, Alienware has confirmed they're testing DX10 cards, the Alienware 9750 is cheaper than the Clevo M570RU (sold by Rock and Evesham) and the Clevo D900C is not available in the UK

The Source engine favours ATi so its not special theres an improvement in Source games - Source might favour the 8700 over the 7950.

You want numbers? Here are numbers:

7950GTX:
575/1400MHz Core setup: 8:24:24:16 Fillrate:13800MegaTexels Bandwidth:44.8Gb/s GDDR3 256bit

8700M GT (aka 8600Ultra)
625/1250/1600 Core setup: 32:16:8 Fillrate10000MegaTexels (This means the 7950 can shade more faster) Bandwidth:25.6Gb/s(This means that the 7950GTX can handle twice as many textures) GDDR3 128bit

Those are the numbers, 'nuff said

*EDIT*
There is a d900C in the UK now, but 400UKP ($812) More expensive than the Alienware, imo not worth it for the Desktop Processor and an extra 4-5lbs of weight. It also doesn't offer any 7200RPM HDD:

The DPC Frankenstein (name suits the Clevo lol):
http://www.dpctech.net/notebooks/frankenstein/frankenstein_intel_page.php

This is what an SLi config costs:
Frankenstein Display 17.1 inch. TFT WUXGA+ (1920x1200)
Intel® Core 2 Duo E6600 2.40GHz
1GB DDR2 PC2-5300 a 800MHz - 1x1024 SO-DIMM
Hard Disk S-Ata, 160Gb, 5400 Rpm
Dual NVIDIA GeForce Go 7950GTX with 512MB of DDR3 memory SLI MODE
MICROSOFT Windows VISTA Ultimate

GBP 2.430,78 ($5000)

This is what an Alienware SLi config costs:
17" WideUXGA 1920 x 1200 LCD with Clearview Technology
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor T7600 2.33GHz
Dual 512MB NVidia® GeForce™ Go 7950 GTX - SLI Enabled
2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SO-DIMM at 667MHz - 2 x 1024MB
160GB 5400 RPM SATA

£2,093.85 ($4000)

lose the overfriced 2.33GHz proc and get a more reasonable 2.0GHz and you end up with:
£1,796.58 ($3600)



All prices include UK VAT

 

Hmm... well, that's certainly not the case in the US, at least.

Configuring with the same specs:
-17" WUXGA
-Core 2 Duo T7300
-2GB RAM
-Single Go 7950 GTX
-200 GB 7200 RPM hard drvie
-CD/DVD Burner
-Intel Wireless-N
-Vista Home Premium

The Alienware comes out to $3109, and the Sager NP5790 (AKA, Clevo M570RU) as configured on XoticPC comes out to $2519.

------------------------------------------------

Tech companies fudge their benchmark numbers all the time to put themselves in the best light possible. They cherry pick which benchmarks are run (the ones that they do the best at), and tweak the settings to perform the best on whatever big new thing they're trying to sell. For example, perhaps those benchmarks were run at 1024x768 with no AA. In that case, maybe the 8700M GT really is that much faster, but once you start cranking up the resolution and AA, the lack of memory bandwidth chokes it.

Another example of tech companies putting themselves in the best light possible: AMD says it's new quad-core Barcelona CPU will be 40% faster in floating point performance than Intel's Clovertown. I'm sure this is true for one particular benchmark - but it is very unlikely that this is true across the board for all applications or anything.

Nvidia's job is to sell you video cards, not objectively report benchmarks. That's why we have tech review sites.

See my post here for a good way to "preview" the performance of the 8700M GT vs. the Go 7950 GTX.

 

EDIT: you're rights its a Arima... I was thinking of the M57xx series.

 

I feel its Best to wait till q4 2007 or even 2008
To buy a gaming laptop cos things r changing so fast all are getting confused wht to buy
Me too & Price is not a problem Take$5000 but if my comp is getting old in 3 moths THATS CRAZY & new stuff is out

 

uh, technology never slows down

by q4 2007 or 2008, there's going to be more stuff out maybe nvidia 9 series

etc...

if you really don't want your comp getting "old" in 3 monthes, buy a moderate laptop and get a gaming desktop

 

Why can't NVIDIA just get the damn 8800 MOBILE CARD OUT ALREADY!

 

why should it?

ATI has nothing to compete against nvidia yet so its more profitable for nvidia to make you buy the 8600gt and then make you buy the 8700 and then the 8800

its always about profit

 

So then what will be a good card 8800 / 8800gs / 8800gt / 8800 gtx ? or ......
For a Laptop

 

no 8800 card is out for laptop yet

 

Yeah which is pissing me off ARGHH I wish this dell at least came with an 8700GT guess I'll stick with the 8600GT. Laptops aren't upgradeable right?