Gtx 660m

Big problem here is that this is a desktop comparison where cards are top of the line products,power hungry, are HUGE, with HUGE cooling systems. It just doesn't translate into the LAPTOP market where midrange desktop cards are power optimized and shrunk down into a small laptop form factor with limited power and cooling ability, especially with laptops getting thinner, smaller and lighter.

Id love to see improvements like of that which you have shown for the laptop sector, but it ain't happening. If it does, I'll be the first to eat my words, but its not going to happen this spring/summer.

 

I see what you mean but why shouldn`t we see similar performance differences with a mobile version of VLIW vs a mobile version of GCN?
The transistors and everything are all shrunk down to 28nm, giving AMD a bigger thermal envelope to increase performance while staying at the same TDP and power consumption as previous generation. That is exactly what AMD have done with 7970. 7970 use 10W more than 6970 under load, when idling it use 20W less than 6970, 7970 is 10 degree celsius cooler than 6970 under full load. The TDP of 6970 is 250W. The TDP of 7970 is 210W

To summarize: GCN is cooler than VLIW, it is 46% faster than VLIW, it use marginally more power. Why shouldn`t this difference be transferable to notebooks?

But yeah, we have to wait and see. I got $3000 waiting right here for my next purchase

 

How do you GCN is cooler than VLIW4? You're making an apples to oranges comparison.. All you can say that GCN at 28nm is faster and cooler than VLIW4 at 40nm, not that GCN as an architecture is faster or cooler than VLIW4.

Presumably AMD will release VLIW4 mobile GPUs to crossfire with Trinity but we have no idea what node it will be on. So it's a little soon to make comparisons.

edit: just read the last page and saw that that was not your point. Yeah, GCN/VLIW4 at 28nm will almost certainly be a big jump in term of performance. Even if the 7xxxm GPUs have similar performance to the 6xxxm GPUs, they will have significantly more overclocking headroom which in itself will be a big boost.

 

I am smelling alienware there I am also hiding some for 680m

 

Yes agreed. My bad. I shouldn`t have said GCN vs VLIW, but 28nm GCN vs 40nm VLIW like you say. But still valid comparison anyway since that is what we are going to see from AMD with the 7700M/7800M/7900M series. Well, if they don`t follow Nvidia with the rebadging

Not impossible
I was gonna buy the M17x R3 with Sandy 1 year ago but said screw it and waited for next gen GPUs with Ivy instead. My poor keyboard on this laptop is singing its last song lol.
I assume you are going for R4? You are satisfied with your 580M since you are thinking about buying 680M?

 

I am in the same boat as Cloudfire. I have my money burning a hole in my pocket and its one of those wait and see things. After seeing some of the 3D screens recently, i think i am most inclined to go with an M17X-3D.. Now, im just trying to feel it out if i can wait for the R4.. or if its worth.. I hate being so blind without enough info about the next generation product.. even some real, firm release dates would help me greatly.

 

Firm release dates are coming during CeBIT, which starts on the 6th.

 

oh no, I am crazily happy with 580m, marvelous thing, but greed is a dangerous thing my friend

 

You would think that the performance increase will carry over 100% to the mobile laptop field, but it never seems to. Honestly if the new high end cards that are replacing the 6990m's and 580m's etc in the laptops do gain a solid 50% averaged out across most apps, that would be great. But with the trend of notebooks getting smaller/thinner with battery life and power consumption being a key factor I have heavy doubts. I look at it this way, if the new top of the line Mobile GPU's give 50% performance increase on average while staying in the same power envelope or consuming even less power I would be very impressed. I think though real world performance though is going to be in the 10-30% range. If thats the case, not really worth the wait, or worth upgrading for unless your laptop features an MXM slot where you can just swap out the video card(And sell off the old one).

 

With all of the Buzz that all Ivy Bridge Processors are officially pushed back to June at the earliest.. kinda makes all of this talk a bit more depressing. All of the refresh machines that we have been seeing with new GPUs were counting on the Ivy Bridge platform too.. So where does that leave the new GPU launches?

 

Very true, also because there are rumours that nvidia has trouble releasing their kepler line in q2 Also if the benchmarks are true for the 670m, the whole 600 mobile series is in a really bad light

Now the waiting isnt fun anymore

 

These GPUs are not being designed for notebooks which follow that trend, so you should not expect the cards to be focused on anything except better performance per watt.

The performance increase is all going to come down to which desktop cards they pick to represent the 7900Ms.

6900M was desktop 6800, and the GCN 7800 is supposed to be 50-60% faster than the 6800 line.

 

dude, honestly, if you offer a mobile GPU which can +40fps BF3 (previously you guys were saying 660m was going to do that before all this 670m 18k 3dmark6 talk), who the hell on the planet will keep on investing in desktops? = just desktop nuts, you will lose the casual desktop builder (~1k bucks) and that just ain't right..

 

I know what ya mean.. but the Sub 1K desktop market has the most robust selection of performance parts in living memory right now. For $1K you can build a KILLER game PC that do wonders.

To get close to that on a Laptop, you are still talking a $2,500+ Investment. With Ivy Bridge and the new GPUs, it lowered that price to about $1800.. but still.. double the price.

 

only if gtx 680m does wonders while gtx 660m is a mid range desktop GPU (660m you can get in a 1k laptop)

 

TBP is correct. Until high-end gaming notebooks cost one-third of what they do now (meaning $800 instead of $2400), they will not compete with desktops.

 

guys, read the above post, an asus g series laptop is 1k, and it involves 560m, if 660m is that revolutionary, then an average laptop WILL compete with a highend desktop, that's the point (unless we will see some new engine beating FB2 real soon, highly doubt it)

 

I think the money lies in the mid-end to low-end market and not in the high end Market..

I think that in our case we are too focused on the high end cards, when its all about the entry level to mid level notebooks.. If notebooks become affordable at about 1k and feature a GPU with sufficient power (atleast 555m) then they will compete with desktop sales.. I think most pc users are casual gamers anyways For me the displays are an important aspect which 90 percent of the time are cheap and crappy TN panels

In my opinion the problem isnt only the price, but also the cooling.. GPU generations become more advanced and become alot faster, but the cooling solutions dont change at all.. 28nm means less distance between the transistors, so developers up the transistors amount, even though they run at less voltage they still create lots of heat..

 

So, how much better will a 660m be compared to a 560m? Will the 660m reach 570m performance?

 

I can build a complete desktop with an Intel i5-2500K and 6950 or GTX 560 Ti 448 for ~$800.

Sorry but notebooks have a very long way to go.

Plus we now know that the 660M is most likely not anything revolutionary, or even Kepler, so the argument has lost its legs.

Judging by the 670M leak, you should lower your expectations greatly.

 

I think AMD has the most headway in the next generation with GCN to actually fill the price/performance gap.. but its still 100% more for a laptop with equiv performance for a PC.

For 2K, you can build either a 6990M Laptop with a 2.2gz i7 and 256gb SSD, OR a Desktop with a 3.6gh i7, with a 7970 and 256gb SSD..

The Desktop is roughly 2x the graphics performance for the dollar.

 

Well I got my 18" Clevo P180hm with a pair of 6970m's for $1400. And they are on par with a desktop 6950 in performance. A 2gig version of that card right there alone is $275-300 roughly, add in a desktop CPU on par with the 2670qm, mb, 8gigs of ram,case, ps, screen, keyboard possibly too etc, your looking around the same cost roughly I believe.

I used to enjoy making performance gaming rigs years back, but they just don't hold the appeal now that they used to in my household.

 

How did you get it for $1500?? Jeeze!

How do you like it?

 

It is most likely a rebadge: Marginally faster GPU than 560M.
We have to wait to see what the Kepler GPUs will be called.

 

Here are the specs of 670M and 675M. We are still on 40nm. 5W increase of TDP with 670M





Google translate

 

Eurocom is selling the P180HM on Ebay for $1675 or "make an offer"......They took my offer of $1400 shipped. They still have 3-4 units left. Here is the link: CLEVO P180HM; 18.4" FHD GT; CrossFireX 2 x HD6970M; i7-2670QM; 300W AC Adapter | eBay

If you check out the sellers feedback you will see where I paid $1400 about 8 down from the most recent feedback recieved.

Its a fantastic laptop and gives true desktop muscle in the graphics dept. I added 12gigs of crucial ram for $40, a Samsung 830 SSD for the primary HD and a Seagate Momentus XT 750gig hybrid drive for storage of photos,music and videos. It absolutely screams. Been very happy with it.

Few weeks later bought the m18x with a pair of 6990m's and a 2820qm cpu,8gigs of RAM(Which I added an extra 8 gigs)750gig 7200rpm HD(Later added the 830 128gig SSD),6300 wifi card for $1950 shipped off ebay as well and got it with Dell's 2 year in home warranty. So I scored some nice deals I feel.

 

ntrain, what are your temps like on the p180...cpu and gpus?

According to this, there is no difference between the 580m and 675m? Am i reading this right? What am I missing here? Performance should be identical based on those numbers...and that would be most disappointing

 

is there any proof or indication that the source is reliable and the pictures are real?? this could be simply photoshopped

did they have any reliable leaks before or that user? the pictures show that he is good at using photoshop

it makes absolutely no sense for nvidia to rebrand fermi this could seriously cost them

 

Yeah 675M and 580M are identical. This could mean that if 680M too is a Fermi, we get a small boost from 580M. If that is of any comfort..

I don`t know if the TDP info is accurate though. I fear that it is. The GPU-Z from 675M are not photoshopped. It is from the same people who gave us the 670M benchmarks. So yeah, 580M = 675M

 

Nothing to see here, moving on
You can flash a new bios on the GTX 570M to get higher voltage and OC to the level of GTX580M already.

 

Man, what a fail.

I feel really bad for the people who were waiting for the next gen to buy a computer, the 675m is literally just a rebranded 580m, not a single difference that I can see.

Perhaps there will be a 680m, but it will be much later in the year, and they won't have any reason to make it more than 20-30% faster max, which will still be incredibly underwhelming.

This makes it official though, if you need a computer buy it today, absolutely no point in waiting.

 

And they're still 40nm.... holy crap that's shameless.

Unless they're dirt cheap I'm completely done with Nvidia.

AMD, please save us with your glorious 7000M series.

 

Nvidia must be pretty confident that AMD's new stuff is not that amazing, if they choose to basically just do a rebadge this generation.

 

Epic true.

 

Ntrain those were some sexy deals that you landed, I'd replicate some of your maneuvers, but 12 pound behemoths are outa my league.

For those of us planning to upgrade in the coming month or two and are greatly annoyed by this despicable Nvidia rebranding, it gets worse. The rumors of Ivy Bridge getting delayed have resurfaced Intel Exec Says Ivy Bridge Mobile Now Expected in June | News & Opinion | PCMag.com , and now even quad core chips are purported to be pushed back till June.. The most up to date news articles Intel Ivy Bridge Processors Delayed, but Don't Panic | PCWorld , suggests that the delay may only be a "couple weeks" , but nearly everyone agrees that a delay is inevitable...

 

Or Keplar yields are really *that* bad. They aren't even releasing the high end Keplar card first, they're doing midrange.

 

How can you all be so sure?

There is only one weird asian source, I can only believe this when there are real benchmarks out

 

Using the latest Furmark(1.9.2 or something like that), my GPU temps ALWAYS remain below 80c. Mid to high 70's basically. Be aware I repasted with Artic Silver 5 and use the Notepal U3 laptop cooler(but WITHOUT the fans).

 

Noooooooo!!!

 

With the clock changes the fillrate and Gflops is wrong.

 

Haha, yeah I hear ya. But for me, these laptops stay in the house and are normally situated in one of 2 rooms. I dont travel with them. I needed something with the power graphically of an upper midrange performance desktop that was still "home mobile" with the kids n all(Depending on what room they are playing in)and capable of playing a half dozen games on the higher settings. For me these made the most sense. I really wanted to score a pair of m18x's, but I couldnt pass up on the deal on Ebay for the P180HM(Which allowed me to grab the SSD and hybrid HD), just wish it had the backlit keyboard that the m18x has.

 

Brilliant observation.

 

You`re right Meaker, there is a typo. The pixel fillrate of the 670M is 14400. Have no idea what the GFlops is

 

Same percentage difference.

I guess someone drew that up themselves based on the screenshots and forgot to change them. It's obviously not an official NV slide.

 

Are there any significant differences going from a GTX 4XXm to a comparable GTX 6XXm ? [size, bus, memory, etc..?]

 

Well if they are re-using 5 series chips which are just silicon revisions of 4 series then in those cases not so much...

On the highend the 570m was a nice step up from the 470m and the 580m was a huge leap over the 480m obviously.

We may see some improvements in the mid range GPUs, looks like the uber high end is going to be the latest and greatest.

However I am surprised at Nvidia as per core they make more on mobile GPUs than desktop GPUs so if supply were limited I would sell notebook ones first.

Also we have not seen the 7870 series from AMD yet that will make the 7970M series. The 7770M series will be a small yet appreciated improvement especially in power consumption over the 58xx series at the moment that competes against the 560M.

So if I get this right Nvidia thinks that the 555m situation was far too simple.

We will have:

Nvidia
Up to 630M: Rebrands of up the 550m
635M: Rebrand of the 555m with all that entails.
640M to 660M: New gen chip?
670M to 675M: 570m and 580M rebrand
680M: New gen chip.

AMD
Up to 76xx: Whistler cores
7770M: Not sure, maybe crippled 7770 desktop with DDR3?
7850/7870M: 7750/7770 desktop chips, maybe not 7750 just downclocked 7770.
7970: 7870 desktop chip.

At least with AMD once you get to 78xx at least you will know you are getting high end cores.

 

If someone has a 485M, and the 675M turns out to match the above specs; they'll basically get a slightly more efficient card.

 

Awww Meaker you almost gave me hope that this was just a giant hoax and we would be seeing shiny Mobile Kepler chips in the next month :"(

Yeh I don't travel alot and largely use my laptops at home, so for my next system I was contemplating upgrading from a 15" to a 17" even though it means going from about 6 pounds to close to 9 pounds (Msi Gt7xx or Alienware m17x are prime candidates). I'm a bit hesitant to make the "upgrade" since I've been content with 15", but most people seem to suggest larger screen sizes for media/gaming enjoyment, especially if mobility isn't a concern, so i may go big. I'm worried though that the 50% increase in weight will be uncomfortable while on my lap/bed, but I may take the risk nonetheless

 

Heh I used to run the mobile graphics chart for this forum (6-7 years ago!!!) so I am picky about the right specs =)

 

Not confusing at all