How will Ampere scale on laptops?

i was told 165 watts from a representative at failienware (expression taking from @etern4l today lol). The guy told me he would sent me by email tomorrow all the specs (we will see) and i will post it. Still this result 12100 is notthing spectacular for this new gen RTX30xx. My stock score 11234 and little overclock 12208.
If i was to shop for a laptop right now i would go for the 3070 and 140watts TGP.

 

It looks better for comparing benchmark numbers. Particularly in the GPU part, where the CPU isn't under load, you can achieve higher scores. In real-world gaming, especially in FHD, the CPU is under higher load, so you can't use the 15w dynamic boost because your power budget isn't high enough, or you can't cool the power anyway.

 

If i understant correctly you are saying that this Dynamic boost will artificially boost results in GPU synthétic benchmark but it will not do much in real gaming situation where the CPU is always under load, Is that correct?
Edit: that would explain why this guy «Geremoy» had poor results with his 3080 on cyberpunk 2077 in terms of FPS but he had good results in benchmark like firestrike and TimeSpy.

 

It may depend on the game and the resolution. That's why we need in depth reviews, by independent enthusiasts not zero day promotional reviews by professional YouTubers flashing one or two shiny sponsored charts.

Edit: yeah, exactly.

 

Bob had explained this in the video with the MSI GS66 Stealth for example ( video from minute 2:44).

Many notebooks have a FHD display. On FHD resolution you have more fps, more fps equals in more load on the CPU. Your power-budget might not enough to use the extra 15w dynamic boost. In benchmarks that only use the GPU (like Firestrike --> GPU-part), you always have a better graphics-score than in real use. This probably affects more thin & light notebooks

what etern4l said is correct. It also depends on the game, resolution, etc., but from a marketing perspective you have better graphics-scores (in these kind of benchmarks) because you can always use the full PL of the GPU.

 

Nice one. Bob says no thermal boost above 40W CPU power, so a good UV will def help, but there will still be games that get there and cut GPU power. I guess it's unlikely that the threshold will be adjustable.

 

NVIDIA’s Dynamic Boost is a very very disgusting tech. Amd as well use similar. Cheaper for the OEMs than make a proper cooling that can handle max load on both Cpu and GPU at the same time... Nvidia's contribution to thin and slimy https://www.anandtech.com/show/15692/nvidia-details-dynamic-boost-tech-and-advanced-optimus

"Borrowing some of the thermal budget from a lightly-loaded CPU and instead spending it on the GPU".

Would you be happy having shared cooling between Cpu and Gpu in your homebuilt desktop with help from Nvidia’s Dynamic boost?

NVIDIA’s Dynamic Boost saw the light so the notebook manufacturers can make their gamingbooks even thinner. This will also gain Nvidia.... More of their most expensive chips can be used.

 

(deleted)

Edit: OK, I forgot some Max-Q laptops had only 80W TGP, so they might benefit from the boost...

 

Here is an example of what specs should look like:

https://www.xmg.gg/en/xmg-pro-17-e21

Graphics
Intel UHD Graphics 630 | integrated
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Max-Q | 8 GB GDDR6 | 90 W TGP (+ 15 W Dynamic Boost) | dedicated
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Max-Q | 16 GB GDDR6 | 90 W TGP (+ 15 W Dynamic Boost) | dedicated

Internal Display connection: NVIDIA Optimus
Internal G-SYNC display connection: direct or via NVIDIA Optimus (MUX switch)
HDMI, Mini DisplayPort, DP via USB-C connection: direct
Up to 3 external displays addressable
VR Ready

Any questions? I'm good.

 

UV helps, of course. Unfortunately, not everyone has the possibility to undervolt. I can only speak for AW now. All new devices from AW are still with Intel chips. We all know how "great" the BIOS from Dell is. Good luck with UV on the new notebooks from AW.

 

https://videocardz.com/newz/there-are-28-variants-of-geforce-rtx-30-laptop-gpus

I give up!!

 

You’ll probably have to pay for the more expensive unlocked BGA to have a chance for undervolting. Yeah, Dell in their bright mind thinks that the Plundervolt security flaw only affects the locked SKUs

 

The biggest joke for me was the picture from Normimb with the Dell chat. 165w for the m17 r4 with RTX 3080. How does Dell plan to cool 200w+ in this chassis? 165w GPU + 40-65w CPU(8/16) in gaming are easily possible, but without undervolting, a thermal paste which performs worse than old toothpaste, inverted mobo and so on, is this absolutely unrealistic, even with LM. For benchmarks where CPU or GPU is tested alone, this is certainly great. Great scores for marketing again and fortunately, the combined test in firestrike goes only 20 seconds.

Already the AW17 R3 wasn't able to cool less power and that with a 6-core CPU.


The first picture from Normimb was also very funny with 80w TGP for the new m15 and m17 R4. Of course, this isn't right either, but it's more realistic than 165w + CPU power.

 

nVidia holds all the cards, they could just fix this by forcing all the manufacturers to be transparent about the TGP of their implementation. My guess is some would cry foul for not being able to trick uninformed customers that info confusing customers with info that would confuse them.

I mean I wouldn't mind buying one that used less power if that's what I was after to get a quieter or cooler laptop, but not being transparent is the issue. Now it's almost like you have to create a spreadsheet of laptop model numbers with GPU and GPU TGP, and can you even trust it not to change for the SAME MODEL if it's not being exposed. Well.. i guess good luck to whatever company does that among the enthusiasts, but the general public that just wants a gaming laptop and thinks bigger numbers are better will never know.

 

There are 28 variants of GeForce RTX 30 Laptop GPUs
Published: 26th Jan 2021, 21:20 GMT

ComputerBase managed to find a list of all Max-Q and Max-P variants of RTX 30 graphics cards.

 

Oh, so nVidia did at least "suggest" it, and there's a very easy way to determine it once you get the laptop in the case the vendor tells you something that isn't true before buying. I guess that's something even though the entire ecosystem is confusing for anyone that would care about this. I get the feeling that's an edge case though and most people will not care and perhaps other features of the laptop will take precedence.

Now we just need someone to create a spreadsheet of laptops and add in confirmed max TGP.. but that doesn't tell the whole story, how good is the cooling?

 

There you got it right "Design will beat performance/functionality".

 

Great find!

 

I mean I'm just being realistic.. but if I had to choose between something designed well vs a plastic-y brick and the one that looked nice was 10W less but, I'd take that one. As long as the dbA of the cooling was relatively similar under load.. I've grown to completely despise loud laptop cooling.

 

Nvidia and the OEMs offered this the last years. Max-Q and Max-P. Max-Q is now transformed into a feature.

Nvidia blames manufacturers for the buck

 

I'm dealing with this 15W CPU laptop.. but.. I tell you.. it plays cyberpunk 95% fine while being essentially inaudible.

 

I don't agree with Nvidia's naming scheme but the Dynamic Boost is helpful IMO. I think it is simply impossible for a laptop to cool a real desktop 3080 gpu... unless it is as fat as a brick. I think dynamic boost is a good compromise especially when you are gaming. I undervolt my 9750h, turn turbo boost off, and lock the cpu at 80% max utilization which is around 2.0ghz, and lock the fps to 60 iin rivatuner... and game just fine. Laptop stays very cool and quiet. If I need more CPU for video editing or certain games, etc, then I'll turn up the juice. So to me the Dynamic boost is a nice feature to have especially if you have the option to turn it off or on.

 

Then there ain't many choices. Keep what you have and are happy with or go for desktops. No laptop with maxed out Ampere (200w) will be quiet. Another option is go for one of the notebooks with a Max-Q in specs (if you find one, LOOL)

The problem is that there ain't any Amp mobile with real 3080 desktop gpu. How difficult is it to make proper cooling for the hardware showed up within Nvidia's guidelines for 3000 series cards? (60-200W)? Do you really need Dynamic Boost for etc a 115w 3080 graphics card? I don't think so. At least not at the cost of the suffering part (crippled Cpu performance to provide good enough cooling for the graphics card).

Streaming has become more popular. Same also if you using the Cpu for more tasks in the background while you gaming. More cores is added the last years for exactly this type tasks/user behaviour/usage. Cripple the Cpu to provide enough cooling for the Gpu is just plain stupid.

 

Thank you, Very informative and the video you linked is great too.

 

It's not stupid for most people, I would imagine at 1440p you're probably GPU limited with these things and you don't need 100% of the CPU power. Even my crappy 15W CPU isn't 100% utilized in most games, though that's changing now that 4c is on the brink of collapse with AAA stuff releasing right now. Any serious streamer is just going to be using a desktop.

I will say it *IS* stupid if you want a laptop that can crank both at the same time.. but that's a behemoth laptop which are probably low volume for extreme enthusiasts. I would imagine those will still exist at the boutique builders.

Here's one with a desktop CPU.. I would imagine it's using the highest TGP 3080 here with decently massive cooling..
https://www.hidevolution.com/evoc-h...z-i5-10600k-i7-10700k-i9-10900k-rtx-3080.html

Only 8.4lb.. that's way more than I would ever buy.. it's a brick.. but hey it's not 10-12lb like I've seen before.. hah

 

Thats Disgusting

How easy or hard a gpu is to cool has nothing to do with the actual gpu itself but rather the power limits they impose on it. A 130w GA102 chip will run no hotter than a 130w GA104 chip. In fact, it might even run cooler as the heat will be spread out over a larger surface area.

 

Nvidia just promoted that 30% of their graphics go into Mobile gaming. And it will increase further. Be you sure... Many will use their Cpu for many other things in the background while gaming.

And from reviews... 1080 will still be here for gaming on notebooks. In fact prefered for Ampere Mobile.

See also 4 cores is dead for gaming. The new added 5.0GHz on new arch won't help.
Tiger Lake-H35 is too weak for RTX 3070

 

I dunno.. I played Cyberpunk 2077 at decent FPS 40-60 on a 4c 15W w 2070 egpu. It showed it's shortcomings more than any other game I've ever played (this might actually be the fault of CP2077 needing more optimization)... I guess define what it means to be playable? To be fair I finished the game and uninstalled it before the 1.1 patch came out.

 

Ryzen laptops are on their way in anyways with higher ipc and better efficiency. No need for power hungry Intel cpus anymore.

 

I can't wait for review after review of these, I'm just bracing myself for every single one to have loud fans... :/

 

Good breakdown on the silliness from Linus.

 

The big question if they perform as those in this link https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-geforce-rtx-30-laptop-gpus-tested-in-3dmark-time-spy

See also http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...scale-on-laptops.834039/page-57#post-11073348

 

Hopefully. And news about mobile RX6000 gpus btw?

 

You're kidding? Did you look on the results? Ryzen 5800H is a brand new 8 core chips. Struggling around 9400-9500 in TS physics is a bad sign.

Nothing about RX6000 as I know of.

 

Knowing AMD they'll show up in eight months with RX 6000 Mobile, and be shocked no one waited for them.

 

Yeah i didn't look at the link as I expected it to be good.

That is terrible, same score as 4800h cpus. 5800h should be around 11000-12000 at least.

Is it verified though? It could be an early sample with turbo disabled or whatnot

 

Amd earn more money on their processors vs, their Graphics. Same silicon but less components for the CPU package..

Not everything is so shiny and peaceful in the Red camp. And TSMC will have a bit of the cake too. Increased prices for the waffers.

Exclusive: AMD Ryzen CPU Allocation & Availability Update Q1 2021 – The Good, The Bad And The Ugly

And you have this...

TSMC to Start Dedicating New Capacity to Auto Chips First

According to the Taiwan Economic Ministry, TSMC will start prioritizing auto chips as it adds new capacity.

Edit.
AMD sees another six months of video game chip shortages today
Demand has outstripped AMD’s ability to deliver new Radeon graphics chips and cards and the industry overall is also in short-supply.

AMD is facing something of a perfect storm of supply and demand. Along with competitors, the company faces shortages in wafer supply and processing from chip manufacturing partners like Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing. At the same time, demand for newer gaming GPUs, such as the Radeon 6000, introduced last quarter, has been higher than the company expected. <has been higher than the company expected>. Not so sure about that....


http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...00-gpus-on-oct-28.834078/page-9#post-11061015

 

Sounds plenty good enough for a gaming laptop if the efficiency is off the charts. But that's a big if.

 

Have seen many results by now. The bigger boy 5900H don't reach 10.000. It's what it is. Maybe laptops with much better cooling can give some more love But with the new Nvidia's Dynamic boost feature all over the places it doesn't look so promising.

 

Maybe this generation is the first one i buy a Clevo DTR and deal with the bad built quality...Better than have 115w Gpus and 100°C throttle cpus in thin and light hotbooks

Any rumor that an 200W RTX3080 mobile is existing?

 

In terms of the thread topic it will be interesting to see the difference between desktop and laptop at maxq level. I think I read that nvidia wanted no more than 10% difference but that's not happened in Turing at least at the 60 level, 22%. The 2080s and 2080s mobile was about 15% UL.

 

If Clevo have bad built quality... Weird my old Clevo's from 2010 and 2015 is of better quality than my Alienware. The only laptop that needed 3 MB swap + 3 visits from Dell's tech support. I guess you know what laptop that is. Built quality can be so much. I rather prefer a working laptop than sit in the phone a few times a year talking with tech support. + the only smoke I can smell here home is usually from my cigars. Not from fried hardware

I expect its too early. Ampere in disgusting TGP is just come out.

 

Note there is no.mobile option above 150W. That would explain why they didn't refresh 51M. There is no XMG Ultra refresh either. Maybe they are trying to make it work with the 220W desktop option. Does anyone smell something, where is the smoke coming from?

 

Have you seen MSI and Asus biggest machines out promoted with 3000 series cards which should handle 200W graphics? None of the machines able to handle 200W cards has been seen with Ampere.

 

with built quality i mean the choise of material, gap dimensions etc. There AW is a league above clevo. I dont talk about the technical quality and reliability.

 

Newsflash. Many people are looking for desktop replacements. Look at the "what laptop to buy" , or area 51 sections. The use case is different than for a mobile laptop, and for a desktop. It's for people who want to move the device around quickly, can comfortably carry 9-12lbs around the house (not recommended for young children), to the car etc., but don't need battery life. The tradeoffs vs the mobile laptop and the desktop are obvious.

Surprised even Clevo / HID haven't figured out how to quote TGP, leaving us in the dark as to what GPU is used. The 150W mobile or the desktop one?

 

When enthusiasts talk about playable, what is often meant is maxed out settings, RT enabled, and ideally 4K, although FHD is fine on a laptop.

It sounds like your gaming experience could have been different.

 

Well, there is the X170 refresh available for preorder, but no TGP specified.

 

So far from what I’ve seen, the highest wattage 3080s are the m17r4 running at 150W+15W and the ROG eGPU implementation.

 

Agree those laptops are sturdy.
Unfortunately, I cannot buy a laptop with soldered RAM or WiFi. An inverted motherboard would be inconvenient.