How will Ampere scale on laptops?

I went from 2920XM to 10875H, man what a leap.

 

I really wish my 3940xm/980m system hadn't pooped out tbh it was fine for my use including cad and cfd work, gaming was fine for my moderate settings still looked great. Totally interchangeable both cpu/gpu etc But for the used (over)prices on same specs replacements it made no sense compared with new budget systems. I was lucky to snag it for 699.

Anyways I'll have to fire up acod and watch the core usage in msiab on this 10300h to see how it is, it doesn't stutter at all but the fps is all over in cities etc such a badly optimized game. I wish every game was like doom lol. I limit to 60fps as well. No out of normal background processes running.

 

I would say obsolete in desktops compared to laptops. Laptops finally got 6 core CPUs in 2018 while desktops had them since 2010.

Since a lot of manufacturers are going with Ryzen this year it wont be a surprise that having a 6 core CPU will be the minimum standard soon.

 

Playing such a CPU heavy game as AC:O with single channel memory is a death sentence.

 

The last desktop cpu I had was a i7-2600 in 2018 in an ex-corporate precision desktop of which the whole computer cost $200 so I'm focused on perf/price mostly. I had that paired with a 1060. The eye melting candy I just don't focus on in games, average moderate is totally fine to me. Real world overall usage is my measurement, unless there's something terribly bad I'm not concerned about core counts, clock speeds etc I mean for the same money sure give me an overkill beast.

I think most new laptop cpus are 6+ core but clearly intel is still producing new quad core cpu's in budget gaming etc laptops including i7's. I could care less if all cores are used while gaming if it's smooth and within pretty factor range for me. For gaming I would fit the console user profile but having one machine that does everything is so much better to me along with all the games specials etc you get on pc.

 

Yeah that's pretty awesome in_that_game no other conclusion. If I do keep this machine I'll def get another 8gb stick, $40 wouldn't be too bad on top of the total cost. The only thing I can say is that if I limit it to 60, because it ain't reaching 120hz/fps on a 2060, it's less relevant in_that_game, maybe step it up to 75-90 though. Looking to next year black friday tongfang 3060, so thinking resale value on this one. Most of those wicked evoo 16gb, 9750h, 512gb ssd, 144hz, 1660ti owners got ALL their money back and more on ebay for a year old laptop lol

 

Lol, do you really want me to make another mega post showing how many games benefit from dual channel memory.

 

I wasn't aware you had one. I'm not doubting it but it's a badly optimized cpu game and at my moderate mixed settings for 60fps a 2060 with 8gb has been fine for a month of gaming everyday in all sorts of games. The generalization does not apply to everyone in real terms. I don't have an urgent need for more ram right now. There are so many games of all types I usually don't go out of my way for one or two. In Gears 5 I limited it to 90, then 60 for fan noise for the most part, I haven't played doom but what does it matter if I get xxx fps when I'm going to limit it for other reasons? I get locked 120fps on terminator resistance, FO4 won't go over 60 from what I've read and if you mod it I've read some things break over it etc

 

it gets rid of the stutters.

i remember buying a laptop with single channel and just cause 3 stuttered like mad, bought another 8gb stick and problem was solved....but if you have no issues then power to you but these are common problems

 

I'm a simple man and in my mind it breaks down this way: Extra bullets= not a problem. Not enough bullets= problem.

 

That has to be one of the worst games I've ever played, in terms of performance and in terms of just the whole game. I couldn't make it through the first couple of missions before uninstall. Gamepad controls were atrocious, it did have terrible perf on my 980m/3940xm with 16gb dual channel ddr3. So many games are so badly made you almost have to have brute force but some are just exceptionally badly optimized and that's one of them.

IMO stutters are from background apps that they don't tell you about, overheating issues, internet stuff in the background and of course some is ram, NOT playing at realistic settings for the given system, not restarting the system for a long time, outdated/bad graphics drivers, drivers issues in general etc. I've never had stutters in any recent games with the 980m, 1650 or 2060 for years. I didn't have any problems running cyberpunk afa stutter on the 1650 or 2060 etc just the average graphical glitches.

 

@yrekabakery maybe a post?

i dont really think this is something to debate dual channel helps

(235) does dual channel ram make a difference in gaming - YouTube

 

I didn't bring it up that's all on him, maybe he should have stuck to his mega thread on that lol I'm not denying it helps btw never said that. It's not necessary in all cases, period.

 

oh its not that its the fact it helps tremendously

 

agreed no argument if I ever want ~20 fps more in ACod like in the video or some more amount of fps in all games I'll grab another stick for $40. I don't need it atm. That won't save jc3 though lol

 

it was just a example tons of games suffer without dual channel....but fair point if it aint broke dont fix it

 

Im not sure why Intel is doing that especially if they want to compete with AMD's Ryzen 5000 CPUs unless i am missing something. Anyways it depends on the game, most AAA games recommend a 6 core CPU so the CPU wont be too much of a bottleneck to the GPU but at the end of the day having a good GPU matters a lot more than the CPU when running games and other 3D tasks.

It matters a lot more than you realize, this is why i hate when manufacturers sell laptops with single channel RAM. Even my old laptop came with Dual Channel RAM (2x4GB sticks). You gonna need to upgrade the RAM anyways if you decide to keep your laptop after the 24th.

 

As far as the core debate, just gonna throw the system requirements for The Medium into the discussion, specs which were just released today. This is one of the first new-gen/PC only games to be released.



6+ CPUs recommended across the board. Outlier is the i5-6600 at the very minimum, but I expect a 4c/4t CPU to barely function, and wonder if the meant to put the i5-8600 there.

 

eta in msi gs66?

 

30fps is a disgusting metric. Oh well, guess it would look bad if no cards are able to do 4k 60

 

yeah according to youtube i can get 30 on high 1080p with 1060...pretty demanding game i hope the next gen games are better optimised.

also hertzian if you dont care about an extra 20 fps then why would you buy a 2060 laptop over say a gtx 1050 500 dollar laptop??

 

Wait a minute, this game has dlss too right?

So basically its a repeat of cyberpunk 2077 performance?

 

Nvidia cancels dedicated GeForce RTX 3000 Max-Q GPUs, notebook manufacturers can determine the TGP and features notebookcheck.net

If you buy a laptop with an Nvidia GeForce RTX 3060, a GeForce RTX 3070 or a GeForce RTX 3080, you should be careful: Unlike the previous generation, Nvidia no longer offers dedicated Max-Q graphics chips, instead the notebook manufacturer can use the TGP choose freely, which can result in dramatic differences in performance.

Yeah, Max-Q in all form and shapes. Pick your poison if you really know what to look for. I wonder how many out there will put the trigger on the worst crippled mobile Ampere cards

 

Gotta check the power now, the most I've seen so far is the Asus scar with 115. Haven't seen any fat lappies yet when trolling around for something with more juice, anyone seen one of those yet?

 

time will tell

 

Oh for sure I'll upgrade at some point it's just not an emergency thing for me. I can oc the ram and get some fps if I need it, oc other stuff but I just don't have the need for it atm. I'm a bit torn right now since I have no new AAA heavy new games I want to play and am into FO4 mostly and thehunter, both play just fine with my dual core i7/m4000 $200 m4600 and with the new lappys coming out I think I can make it a few months. My i7-2600 did fine for me for about 3 years until I switched to laptops only for mobility reasons. I don't even think there are quad core desktop mainstream cpu's now other than celeron etc What's funny to me is that my old 55w quad core 3940xm gets 50% less passmark score than the 10300h quad at 45w, all quads are not the same I guess lol

My 2060 is bottlenecked in cpu heavy games like ACOD, which gets average over 60fps locked, but the 2060 is the bottleneck in gears 5,, 90fps+ but lock to 60 by me for fan noise, according to it's benchmark, haven't looked at the msiab since I finished it and there's not much replay value for me in single player. I can turn up the resolution on ACOD and get less of a bottleneck though, especially if I output to higher than 1080p.

 

I get near or over 60fps in all games I've played, I doubt a 1050 could get that at similar settings on 2018+ AAA games. I've definitely thought about it though it's a savings of $200 at the most unless I get lucky on ebay and with the luck I've had I'm just burned out on it. From what I've seen a 1050ti mobile is about the same as a 970m and that could be an avenue but again I'm just burned out on used ebay laptops.

If I could get one of those evoo 1660ti/9750h/16gb/512ssd/144hz 2019 walmart deals used for $600 or less that would be very tempting but they're listed for more than what I paid for this gateway new lol 60 or 80 idk that's $2/fps which is mostly just for gaming. I'm going to experiment with ocing the ram and see what I can get free. Happy with the perf I'm getting as is.

 

What an absolute joke...

 

I don't get what NBC is even saying. The "Max-Q" branding is still being used, so we'll still know the TGP range for the GP in a notebook. Turing already had wildly variable ranges of power envelopes, especially with the RTX 2080/Super.

Seems like a whole bunch of nothing to be upset about.

 

I can imagine Alienware/dell (and probably other manufacturer) selling you the 150+watts 3080 and after all the reviews are done and to avoid warranty repair...crippled it with a bios/Vbios update.

Also we could see some 3070 performing better then some 3080.

That is very bad news for customers.

 

This suggests otherwise because I can guarantee you the GS66 uses Max-Q variants as it always has.



With Max-Q branding being at the discretion of OEMs now instead of being required by Nvidia, I can see other companies pulling similar stunts.

 

It doesn't matter. People are going to buy those laptops regardless

 

This is a schiitpost but it feels relevant:

Spoiler

>it doesn't need to have 50% better performance as Turing
>it doesn't need to consume half as much power as Turing
>it doesn't need to be on TSMC 7
>it doesn't need to have honest TFLOPS figures
>it doesn't need to stay under 300w
>it doesn't need to release on time
>it doesn't need to be in stock
>it doesn't need to be protected from scalpers
>it doesn't need to have independent, non-strongarmed reviews
>it doesn't need to be stable at high clocks
>it doesn't need to play well at sub-4k
>it doesn't need to rasterize better than Big Navi

 

Everywhere it's being sold lists it as a 3080 Max-Q:

HIDevolution
B&H Photo
Xotic PC
Newegg

Those who sell products have to make customers aware to avoid fraud, so no Max-Q should be able to sneak out unawares.

 

Early perf result: https://old.reddit.com/r/GamingLaptops/comments/l16vwu/my_asus_dash_f15_has_just_arrived/

80W 3070 Max-Q = desktop 2060S

https://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDI...esktop-GPU-Benchmarks-and-Specs.426823.0.html

Or 2080S MQ in mobile terms

https://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDI...-Max-Q-GPU-Benchmarks-and-Specs.459206.0.html

Same TDP, same performance. Ampere = die shrunk Turing with no efficiency gain.

 

One example. Razer don't want put in the ugly word "Max-Q" for 3000 series cards.


https://www.razer.com/eu-en/gaming-laptops/razer-blade

 

Own/disown is showing a summary of the 3080P being 10% faster than a 2080 desktop and 12% slower than a 3070 desktop across a greater assortment of benchmarks than I've seen up to now. Gotta figure that's the Scar since at 115 it's the highest power card currently in reviewer hands. That implies an actual 150 watt card could approach a desktop 3070 level? Wouldn't be too bad in my book, lets see what you gents make of it...

 

It's because their site is not up to date.
All cards will now be name: RTX3080 or RTX3070 or RTX3060 whether they're 80, 90,100,110,120,130.140,150+ watts. No more Max-Q or Max-P to describe the lesser crippled of the two. The manufacturer will decide what wattage it will give to it.

Edit: Just read in the article (traduction from german) that Max-Q name can still be used (very confusing) but the customer will have no idea what TGP the card he's buying have. He will have to wait for reviews. So we could see for example: RTX3070 or RTX3070 Max-Q and both card could have the exact same specs TGP.

 

That sucks. Imagine a person thinking they are buying top of notch and they are actually buying a crippled 3080 (Max-Q)

 

The mobile 3080 was already crippled from the start, this is just a double whammy.

 

On the other hand, if manufacturers get the 'freedom' to determine power limits, could Clevo then release a 200w variant?

 

That will happen for sure, and not just clevo. MSI, Alienware, Asus and gigabyte are sure to release 200w 3080ms too

 

Indeed, but I'll be buying Clevo

 

PPAB is the is the Dynamic Throttle Boost 2.0 Range.

cTGP is the configurable Graphics Power that OEMs can set, so for example 3080 Max-P can be anywhere from 115W to 150W before DB 2.0.

 

More info about the new Scam...

Update: it appears that NVIDIA did originally announce Max-Q and Max-P TGP variants, thus the change in SK naming must have happened recently.

Updated 1/21/2021 @ 5:04pm ET
An NVIDIA spokesperson has responded back to our inquiries about Max-Q/Max-P on laptops with GeForce RTX 30 Series Mobile GPUs with the following statement:

Max-Q branding is not going away.

When we originally introduced Max-Q back in 2017, the brand was initially used in GPU naming since Max-Q referred to the GPU TGP only.

Today, 3rd Generation Max-Q is broader, and is a holistic set of platform technologies and design approach to building powerful and thin laptops.

In addition, to be more transparent about a laptop’s exact capabilities, RTX 30 Series laptops now show more information than ever, listing exact TGP, clocks and features supported. You will find this in the control panel which now reports maximum power (TGP+Boost), and support for key features including Dynamic Boost 2, WhisperMode 2, Advanced Optimus, and others, all of which fall under the Max-Q umbrella.

We strongly encourage OEMs to list clocks and other technologies a laptop supports, including Advanced Optimus, Dynamic Boost 2, and more. Ultimately, like all laptop features and specs, it is up to the OEM to market what their particular laptop configuration supports.
https://hothardware.com/news/nvidia-geforce-rtx-30-mobile-gpus-lose-max-q-branding


Why would/shold the OEM listening on Nvidia? They got it exactly as they wanted. Because they know Max-Q doesn't sound good in all ears.

We have checked notebook manufacturers’ websites if they really did remove the mention of Max-Q. It appears that the report is true, as even the manufacturers that had those listed at the time of CES 2021, have now removed this technology from RTX 30 GPU names. All cards are now listed as Laptop GPUs.
https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-...max-q-and-max-p-mobile-geforce-graphics-cards

Max-Q = Qrippled memory Freq.

Of course the OEM won't list the Mem clock speed. I bet we won't see anyone will list boost clocks and Mem Freq.


Hundreds of thousands of gamers will be scammed. And many of those will never know what hit them.

Not all do as Dell and release firmware afterwards who is intended to cripple the performance to avoid expensive warranty repair.

Dell out again claming World's fastest laptops.

 

And that is why I started laptop shunt modding. To be free of this power limit crap and actually pick a laptop design thats the best rather than having to pick one that has a poorer design but higher tdp.

 

And what will help on the slower Memory chips for coming Max-Q? Pray to God and tell him that you have to win in the Mem silicon lottery?


You have still this options.... If you are lucky and get it to work https://www.tomshardware.com/news/youtuber-upgrades-rtx-2070-to-16gb-of-vram

 

What a mess. Just looked at the specs of a new Asus Strix 3080 laptop. Just the amount of VRAM stated. That's it.

 

Great post! Very informative. Thank you for sharing.

 

Sounds like a bait and switch practically. Yikes....