Incoming: AMD 9970M

Yeah also good points Cakefish. I could see that happening too. First release 9970 in 20nm in October, then do the rest month by month with the 20nm production improving.

780M cost $200 more than 8970M but then again, is 25% faster. I guess if the 8970M sell poorly against 780M, which it absolutely should since its a freaking rebrand, then AMD might prioritize the launch of the first 20nm mobile GPU ever: 9970M.

I cant wait

 

In any case, it's gonna be great news for laptop gaming, but bad for my OCD with having the latest tech! Suddenly the 780M won't be so shiny anymore. I should start saving... oh why must I be so obsessed with having the latest and greatest so?

 

Well you need to know when it's to time to upgrade.

Spending alot of cash on the lastest and greatest isn't the best idea sometimes. Your overpriced 780m will be old news in only couple of months.

 

I had actually read that AMD switched to TSMC a couple years ago but GF comes to my mind when I read AMD so I based my assumption on that. Yeah TSMC actually has a fab all ready for 20nm so I wouldn't be surprised if these new GPUs will be in that node. It would be interesting because that would actually mean massive gains (provided they get their architecture right).

Also, I don't think the 8970m deserves to sell lesser units. The 780m is only available for laptops above two grand. Not everyone can afford that (in fact, few can). A lot more people can afford to spend about $1500-1600. At that price point, the 8970m is superior to all others. I don't think the AMD flagships were ever meant to win. They were meant to be available to customers that did not have 2k to spend and AMD assumed there'd be a lot of those. There's no game that the 780m makes playable that the 8970m currently cannot handle. In a couple years, there'd probably be a few. So many people who cannot afford to spend a ton still get a very good system. At that price, customers cannot afford to expect the top of the top. Rebrand doesn't necessarily imply it is not worthy of seeing the light of the market.

 

Nah I highly doubt NVIDIA will release GTX 880M in a few months. Surely that'll be next year? That's what I plan on upgrading to. Anyways it wasn't like I spent all this moolah on an old GPU, it's only been out since June! Just 2 months old.

Also, I can't help but read all of your posts in Rodger's voice!

 

First 3DMark score from the new architecture. The one who leaked didnt tell us which GPU it is, but it is a QS and beats a GTX Titan by 10%.

The GPU is said to be much smaller than the GTX Titan (die size)

5100 in Graphic score.


Other high end GPUs as comparison.

 

How does that work without new fab?

Edit: confused by the graph. Sorry. :/
The frequency looks high. If they achieve better stock performance by pushing frequency high, it won't help power-consumption-constrained notebooks.

 

New architecture, possibly 20nm.

This isnt same GCN you found in the 7000 series, so Im not sure where you get the high frequency from?
The jump from 28nm to 20nm will be huge. Think 6970M vs 7970M. If still on 28nm the jump will of course be smaller, but if AMD got the architecture right we will still see some decent improvements.

 

Prices of all 79xx cards have dropped lately

[Discussion] AMD Hawaii to be announced September 25th, first benchmark reveiled(beats Titan in 3dMark), prices of 7950 & 7970 dropping : buildapc

 

Doesnt look like its going to be 20nm unless AMD is part of the "risk production". This article was just published where Chang, CEO of TSMC gave out some clarifications.

TSMC börjar tillverka kretsar i 20nanometer första kvartalet 2014 - Teknik - SweClockers.com

 

One thing is for certain, AMD need to have an answer for the 780m - if not for their own future, atleast to keep nVidia honest. The 8970m is a joke.

 

@Cloudfire

Sorry, was a bit confused by the graph. There isn't anything about the new card's frequency in the post.

If the new card is indeed 20nm, that explains pretty much everything. If it's still 28nm, however, they would have to push the frequency. ALU design is already very mature and stable, you can't expect the silicon to achieve super high shader efficiency by moving to a new GPU arch.

 

Actually 8970m is awarded as best high end mobile GPU performance-price wise.

What is joke in this case is that 780m cost 300 Euros more.

 

So best mobile AMD GPU of last year, equal to the 680M and can still play pretty much all games on ultra at 1080p is suddenly 'a joke' just a year later? Only in PC gaming, eh?

I think 8970M is still very competitive, when you consider that all of the Clevo/MSI builders/resellers (at least, here in UK) do not include the option for 680M in their new Haswell models and the closest thing to the AMD card on NVIDIA's side in terms of pricing (at the time that I type this) is the 770M, which definitely isn't as powerful. 8970M costs barely more than a 770M, yet performs a lot better. Price is key advantage and AMD knows it, which is why they are playing that card.

 

That's well and good. Price to performance is a big plus for AMD. But performance wise there is no real gain in the 8970 over the 7970m. 8970m is simply a rebadged 7970m running slightly higher clocks (which really makes 7970m the real award winner $/perf wise). So the joke part is AMD are still yet to bring a measurable performance increase to the table since May 2012.

 

Q3 2014 will be very exciting indeed. 20nm Radeon, 20nm nVidia (Maxwell), 14nm Intel (Broadwell)...

Curious to see who is leader at this time next year. If AMD can pull out 20nm now they will have one up on nVidia for a while.

 

I can't wait. I'm trying to sit on my hands until then

 

Was the 580m a joke? I don't think so. It was a pretty smart move. Do you know how many millions it saves a company when they do that? When it is a handful of people complaining on a forum vs like hundreds of millions of dollars, I think it is not a very difficult choice to make for the manufacturers. You seem to think that the goal is for AMD to better nVidia in the mobile department. It is not. It is to remain alive on all fronts. nVidia has over eight thousand employees. Intel has over a hundred thousand. AMD has ten thousand. And they are trying to compete with the first two. Chip design is an expensive area. Why was it that you purchased two 7970ms as opposed to two 680ms? Was it brand loyalty? Or the fact that the latter solution would cost you about $600 more on a system that was already at over $2000?

 

I'd put my money on that time line as well. They want to get Hawaii out in desktop cards first since they're getting hammered there by the nV 7xx refresh, then the mobile products will arrive.

 

Well I`d feel pretty silly if I dished out $2k on a notebook today and saw AMD releasing 9970M 1-1.5 months after beating 780M by 20-30% or something..

Damn, why this have to be so hard! I dont have all the time in the world either. Screw you rumors

 

Miss the point why dont you champ! :thumbsup:
I don't have shares in AMD or nVidia, so whether rebranding a GPU makes them more money down the road or not isn't something that gets weighed much in my internal decision making process come purchase time. AMD have their own outlook, that's fine, but I stand by my original statements.
As a consumer and somewhat performance enthusiast, I'll generally* buy the best performing GPU. Some people want bang for buck, respectfully - different stokes. I purchased two 7970m's because they were the best cards on offer just prior to 680m's release - simple as that, and the timing suited me.

Why would a 580m be a joke ? I think you are confusing it with the 675m (rebrand 580m) which yes, was a bit of a joke for some.
For consumers looking for performance, its a no brainer why rebadges are a massive let down - is that so hard to understand ?
As you've correctly stated its sometimes necessary. But for heavens sake, try and appreciate that many people enjoy seeing big moves from either of the companies!

 

That's the nightmare of buying tech in general. Whatever you buy it's guaranteed to be outdated a few months down the line. Whether it be PCs, smartphones, tablets etc.

In a years time we'll all be talking about rumours of the 10000 series and how 9000 series is old news.

 

Well, if someone can show me the game that would justify upgrading from crossfired 7970m's at 1920x1200 resolution, I'll maybe consider upgrading.
At the moment though, these two cards are such powerhouses that I'll probably stick with them for like... 2-3 years.

 

i really dont think 9970m beating 780m this year...if 9970m releases this year.....until and unless 9970m is a 20nm part coz think about it ...

gtx 780m is like somewhere between desktop gtx 660 ti to gtx 670 or even more when overclocked......so amd have to give a mobile card which performs like a 7950 desktop to 7970 desktop and that aint happening with AMDs 28nm

as it consumes too much power and runs hot....

 

GTX780m have same performance as desktop GTX760.

What i expect is that 9970m brings same performance as GTX780m (that's 40% faster than 7970/8970m). Thing is that AMD will be priced lower ofc, like always...

 

I haven't even started to save for my next laptop, but I do need to start. I want to replace my G73 with something offering Intel's 14nm and DDR4 as well so it seems like I will be waiting for Nvidia's Maxwell or the GPU that replaces the 9970m.

I'm still interested in seeing what the 9970m can do if just to get a better idea of where the offerings will be at.

 

The card replacing 9970m? A slightly higher clocked version with 6GB VRAM, also known as the world's fastest mobile GPU (according to AMD).

 

The real issue is to identify our needs. Do I need it now or later ? In fact, we can desperately wait. Obsolescence is unfortunately (even if I like to know we can do better, we can push back the frontiers of hardware) a true fact. Personally, I'm afraid of waiting 9970m (even if rumors are appealing) until early 2014 and telling me : I have waited 4-5 months for a better card but another better card is going to be released in the next 4-5 months . The solution ? To buy the Doc's DeLorean DMC-12, then going to the future buy the 9970m (don't be too greedy ! - but it's ok if you bring me back one) and back to the past !

 

Ah, reviving old threads Any of you remember that Jared Anandtech article the troll was referencing a few pages back showing how AMD is trash and Enduro too?
I found the link to it, haha.
Actually a fun read.

I'll just skip you to the last page of it: AnandTech Portal | Performance Retrospective: AMD

"Wrapping up, the NVIDIA vs. 7970M matchup shows that even more than a year after launch, the top mobile GPUs remain evenly matched. The GTX 680M leads by 8% overall, with a large win in Skyrim (39%) and smaller leads in StarCraft II (17%) and Tomb Raider (15%), while the 7970M leads by 14% in GRID 2 and 9% in Sleeping Dogs. The 780M enjoys its largest margin of victory as well, to the tune of 11% faster than 7970M on average. GRID 2 continues to favor AMD just slightly, but everywhere else the 780M beats the 7970M."

Clearly, with the 780m outpacing the enduro-7970m by such a " substantial" margin, (but not as substantial as the financial margin, amirite ) AMD is clearly trash and 9970m will be a POS.

Heh. I can't believe that troll baited me straight into the next month.

 

AMD Hawai will stay at 28 nm and wont target Nvidias top models:

Exclusive Interview: AMD's Matt Skynner Talks New Radeon Cards, Next-Gen Consoles, 7990 Criticism - Forbes

 

Oh, my new shiny R9-280x will be here soon

 

Do you have a spare and can you make it work in my HM?

 

Good article. Shame won't be 20nm. Means more hot and power hungry cards on the horizon. Was hoping power consumption to be in line with the 7970M not above. Then again the process is very mature now and was immature when the 7970M came out. Perhaps they can wring a lot more performance out with the same TDP..

 

Still 28nm? OK...

Any news on the NV counterpart?

 

there should be maxwell in the 1st quater 2014, could still be 28nm as well. anyways, new AMD top mobile card will just be as fast as 780M at stock speeds)

 

That's enough for me, 40% over 8970m is fine.

You for forget to say that price will be lower too...

 

20nm card i really think will come in Q1 2015 and supply will be stable that time....and also its better the next gen architectures appear at 28nm in Q1 2014 and provide a filler period for 2k14....as the old gen cards are almost 2 yrs old now

by 2015 20nm die on next gen architecture should give more perf boost....so i really want hawaii and maxwell to be out in March 2014 at least

 

9970M ???

OK, sooo,M17X R2 with Dual 9970M

Challange accepted.

Updates soon

 

Since its still 28nm I`m thinking around 20% better perfomance on the same wattage.
Still, it will be interesting to see what the new architecture can do

 

Just a couple of weeks to wait

 

Recent leaks from their newest high end GPU, R9-290X, which is what should have been named 9970, reveal that it beat GTX Titan by roughly 10% and use a little less power than Titan.

It is said to be 30% smaller than GTX Titan and will cost the same as a GTX 780, which will be its main competitor. There we are looking at a 20-30% better performance in favor AMD while using a little more power than GTX 780.



Pictures of it here:
http://wccftech.com/rumor-amd-hawaii-gpu-r9-290x-volcanic-islands-pcb-leaked-512bit-interface-massive-die-size/

 

Oh, this looking great indeed. I can't wait to get my hands on one...

Titan got spanked so fast.

 

And, here is our new mobile chip, 9970M, whatever it will be called. Obviously it will be downclocked, but everything else will be the same:
AMD Radeon R9 270X | techPowerUp GPU Database
1536 cores, 2GB GDDR5 on a 256bit bus.

Compare that with our 7970M, 1280 cores, 2GB on a 256bit bus.
AMD Radeon HD 7870 GHz Edition | techPowerUp GPU Database

So all in all, we are looking at a 20-30% increase over 7970M and it will match the GTX 780M, but since it is a new architecture, it will use less power and should overclock better than GTX 780M.

That is my take on this.

 

Well, we can expect 30-40% faster than 7970, it would be around GTX780m performance for less cash ofc.

 

That too. It will be cheaper for sure.

Just remember to book time for September 25th. That is when everything will be revealed. AMD will also do a live webcast

 

Why new architecture? Still GCN with a slight bump of stream processors. But all in all it should match 780m at speeds. Will see about oc potential, last few mobile amd gens were pretty bad at overclocking...

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4

 

No it is not GCN.

Why?

Lets revisit previous GPUs between AMD and Nvidia.

GTX 680 and HD 7970 was equal in performance.
What about die size?

GTX 680: 295mm
7970: 365mm

So to recap: Nvidia was more efficient.

Now, what about 9970. (R9 290X) and GTX Titan?
If AMD used the same architecture as earlier, one would assume it would be bigger right since GCN like shown above, was less efficient and needed more space.

To quote AMD:
"It’s also extremely efficient. [Nvidia's Kepler] GK110 is nearly 30% bigger from a die size point of view. We believe we have the best performance for the die size for the enthusiast GPU."
AMD Confirms Hawaii GPU is 28nm - New GPU's Being Announced Next Week? - Legit Reviews


It is looking like a new architecture to me

I think AMD is doing Hawaii on 28nm first, then moving to 20nm once TSMC is shipping them out from the factory.

 

Why do they feel the need to rename their frickin' GPUs every new generation. They're always tinkering with the naming schemes, it ends up just being a great big confusing muddle of codenames, acronyms and numbers ergh. Of course, that's probably their aim. NVIDIA guilty with this too.

Anyways, if this is true and it equals GTX 780M in performance, I can breathe a heavy sigh of relief. At least I know my purchase won't be massively beaten for the remainder of this calendar year at least

 

The 7970 just wasn't a very efficient implementation of GCN. If you look at the 7870, the Pitcairn die is much more efficient but is still considered GCN.

The new GPU will be something like Bulldozer->Piledriver imo. Not something completely new, but a refinement of the previous architecture.

 

Sure, its probably not an entirely new architecture. Just like Kepler is still very alike Fermi, Hawaii will share its similarity with GCN.

After all, 7870 is still only 10% better efficient overall compared to Titan. They must get the other 20% from elsewhere.

ASUS GTX 760 DirectCU Mini 2 GB Review | techPowerUp