Maxwell or Mantle makes you more excited?

I've heard Fraps is not working with Mantle, so they cannot show us FPS. Their FPS measurement based on general feeling and that is why they talking about up to 45%.
Anyway I just hope it will perform better and I'll be able play through the game in Ultra with 8750M and i5 ULV...

 

Well I was hoping I'd get 60FPS+ on Ultra with my 8970M after Mantle update, sadly I'm rather skeptical about this lol

 

Almost like they were pretty satisfied with even getting it to work and that was pretty much it.

"OMG LOOK IT PLAYS"

 

That frame counter in the video was the built in one in BF4.

 

didnt anyone noticed the tearing in the game ? may be the bad recording ? i'm not sure :/

 

Yes I did.

I can say 2 things here:
1) AMD has no good speaker. They are crappier than any pupil who comes in front of his class and tells what did he do last summer. Whenever I listen to them I feel that they are kicking off attack or give excuses, that cry smth like "NO, please! AMD and Mantle is not a Bull$hit! NO! Believe us!" etc etc etc. They need to take somebody who has never been worked at AMD but who can read smth, and tell people like he really believes in that. Like he really believes that it skyrockets AMD.
2) I personally wouldn't believe that Mantle becomes mainstream in closest 2 years because game developers are not blind and they afraid of that fear which is in AMD's speaker's voice however I have just found a technology which can force me to buy AMD! It is FREESYNC on CES2014! Yeah, representation is crappy as everything else, and those video just shows comparison of 30 fps vs 50 fps in slowmotion but this technology is what I desire.
Give me 2!
AnandTech Portal | AMD Demonstrates "FreeSync", Free G-Sync Alternative, at CES 2014

 

You didn't get the joke...

 

I see what you did there.

 

Now that there is FreeSync, G-Sync can die in a fire. BTW for those of you interested in G-Sync ASUS has a new ROG 27'' 2560X1440 monitor coming out which runs at 120Hz and has 1ms response time, but sadly its TN panel at $799. I really like the looks of it and it even has thin bezels for those interested in multi-monitor setups, but sadly the TN part just killed it for me. They also have a new 28'' 4K monitor also with 1ms response time and at $799, but also looks to be a TN panel because of the response time.

 

Interesting AMD has this dynamic refresh rates technology since Radeon 5xxx series, but they did not worked it out, because they thought nobody would care about it. Now Nvidia said it is good and lot of people are crazy about, even if they charge people hundreds for it.

 

Seriously, with those prohibitive barriers to entry how does G-Sync even stand a chance against something like FreeSync?

Some more eye-opening info about FreeSync, especially regarding the G-Sync vs. FreeSync comparison: AMD could counter Nvidia's G-Sync with simpler, free sync tech - The Tech Report

 

Well they can keep selling those G-Sync monitors until the finished drivers that support FreeSync are released and some compatibility certification from display manufacturers for people to know what works and what doesn't. After that G-Sync will probably go into free-fall (pun intended).

 

According to that Tech Report article, FreeSync is something "AMD has had in its graphics chips 'for three generations' " and "AMD's Catalyst drivers already support it where it's available, which is why an impromptu demo was possible."

 

I have also seen some info where AMD used other drivers and that new drivers are needed to turn FreeSync on or off or something like that.

 

Which goes to show you, if it's existed with AMD for a while, people haven't cared or said boo about it all this time.

 

People are missing something really important about FreeSync here. I`ll highlight the important parts

AMD Variable Refresh "FreeSync" Could Be Alternative to NVIDIA G-Sync | PC Perspective


It will work for laptops since we have eDP, but we still don`t have the controller. And that one will not be free if future notebooks will use FreeSync.
It will not work for desktops, atleast not for now

Nvidia responds to AMD's ''free sync'' demo - The Tech Report

 

So you agree that FreeSync is more relevant for laptop gamers since it essentially works today while G-Sync support in gaming notebooks is still up in the air?

 

Both are up in the air. There doesn`t exist any notebook with the controller needed for FreeSync nor does any notebook have the PCB from Nvidia that is required to make G-Sync work

EDIT: I`m confused. Anandtech got FreeSync to work with Toshiba notebooks. While AMD above say it needs a controller.

 

FreeSync in its current state is laptop-only and requires a panel which supports variable VBLANK. Dynamic refresh has already been proposed as a VESA standard and adopted by some panel makers, which is why AMD was able to cobble together that FreeSync demo using a pair of unmodded Toshiba's purchased at retail.

So if you've got a laptop with a Mobility Radeon 5000 series GPU or later and a variable refresh rate panel, you can have FreeSync working today, no extra hardware or other expenses needed.

G-Sync in its current state is desktop-only and requires the proprietary G-Sync scaler board, a $200 premium and only on certain unreleased TN-panel gaming monitors, as well as a GTX 650 Ti Boost or better Kepler GPU.

 

It should be noted that FreeSync right now is a proof of concept and not anywhere near as polished or ready to release like G-Sync is.

 

But if most gaming brands have notebooks that doesn`t support VBLANK (do they?), they are actually further away from implementing FreeSync on notebooks than Nvidia.
Nvidia have already made a finished PCB that does the sync. AMD have not. They made a software that rely on VBLANK panels.

They have not made any products like the PCB Nvidia made have they?
By all means, I would welcome FreeSync if my panel supported it since its for free, but I`m not buying a new notebook just because of that.

 

How is AMD further away from implementing FreeSync on notebooks if it's got a head start and is already demonstrating it on one? If Nvidia wants to implement variable refresh rate on mobile, I sure as hell hope they follow AMD's example by going for a free and open standard instead of doing something proprietary yet again given that variable VBLANK panels are much more common on mobile devices such as phones, tablets, and laptops than desktop displays due to being a power-saving measure.

 

I guess the only way is to install newest AMD drivers on every AMD GPU based laptop and test if it works.

 

That would be a crapshoot plus kinda pointless because while driver support for controlling VBLANK timing is present in the latest Catalyst drivers, AMD hasn’t yet exposed any of the controls to end users. So until AMD releases a driver update that enables control over this function, there's no way for us to turn dynamic refresh on and off or configure it. It'll be fumbling around in the dark unless someone discovers a hack to enable it like how we found a workaround to make ShadowPlay work on notebooks.

 

I remember not to long ago people were complaining that g-sync was bad because it was Nvidia only. It didn't take long for AMD to find a way to compete.

These things push things forward. I see this as a win for gamers. As for saying no one wanted this, is just bogus. No manufacturers wanted this, maybe. But as a gamer I have wanted this for as long as we have used lcd displays. I think AMD didn't do it before since it would only work on notebooks, and only with a few displays. Now things have changed, there are more notebook displays for it.

As for free sync being availible now, if true it should just take a few days before real end users start comenting on how it worked for them. Otherwise, no matter how close they sound to completion, it doesn't matter, it is just marketing until it ships.

 

There is some analog of NvidiaInspector for AMD, maybe that will release controls.

BTW ShadowPlay never worked or me. Even though I entered ShadowPlay options and enabled it, set all settings and other it still didn't record video. Even when I tried -shadowplay with the game's shortcut. Maybe it is due to GF Experience 1.8.0 version, I don't know.

 

It doesn't work if you have Optimus. Also, I believe Nvidia completely patched out ShadowPlay on notebooks with the latest GeForce Experience update a few days ago, so even those of us who were previously able to use it via the workaround can no longer do so.

 

Thanks for that. I'll be sure not to get the new version

 

There is one hole in that argument. You would require a new notebook to use the nVidia PCB too. In either case you need a G-sync compatible system or a Freesync enabled LCD.

This is just segregating red and blue even further. If you buy a laptop with a freesync panel then you're relegated to using AMD products. If it is using G-sync then you're relegated to nVidia products. What are laptop manufacturers supposed to do? Especially boutique ones like Clevo that cater to both camps with MXM?

 

Aren't laptop screens already support free sync technology and just need software support? In the demo they were using retail Toshiba laptops. For me G-sync seems looser, an additional chip into a thin laptop screen is just no way.

 

Those laptops that are VESA-spec-compatible can do that. The problem is VESA is kinda new at this moment, and not many machines support it.

I do agree that using a feature that is already available in a standard that's supposed to spread out is better than adding another chip just for sync. Straight forward flexible refresh timing is also more effective than re-sampling the unstable output of GPU with a fixed refresh rate, which is what NV is trying to do.

 

Maxwell looks more technologically appealing to me.

 

Why do you need another 28nm GPU?

 

Uhm, Maxwell will be in 20nm

 

I see some good signs for Mantle launch tomorrow;

- AMD Catalyst 14.1 Beta to Include Mantle,
- Battlefield 4 PC Update Out Now,
- Kaveri APU launch is tomorrow

So while BF4 PC bugs fixed by today's update, EA might let the Mantle patch out any time from now, which would be very important for AMD to demonstrate their new Kaveri APU tomorrow.

 

Is there any plan for a more powerful (similiar to PS4 APU) model for more open systems?

 

still nothing about the 14.1 drivers..

 

Yup, Mantle will go great along with the APU launch :thumbsup:

(Not so sure we will see much gains with Intel CPUs though)

 

Maybe in 6-12 monts from now, currently all signs are pointing to low end to lower mid-range maxwell GPUs arriving by the end of March so on 28nm. I think they are planning to make the higher end ones at 20nm though but who knows when that will be ready for mass production, a good reason for that is the fact that GTX880M is a rebranded 780M.

 

Can someone explain me if mantle is a open source or exclusive for ati?Can nvidia add support for mantle too in some later stages?

 

It's not open source but it's supposedly 'open' ( relevant slide). Which means Nvidia could probably add Mantle support if they wanted to, but it's unlikely since that will require working with AMD.

 

The API specification is open. The AMD reference implementation is proprietary.

 

HA!

Btw, new BIOS is out for the 8970M. Perhaps with Mantle built in.

 

Got some interesting news on Mantle, details have been released on performance, and possible Battlefield 4 update today! (Although Mantle driver probably not released today). Here's the link:
http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/am..._end_cpusnot_mainstream_and_high_end_pcs.html

Looks like it's not much to get excited about if you've got a half decent Intel CPU. It's really just about removing any CPU bottlenecks, but in reality, especially on our laptops we are in most cases GPU limited, with some exceptions of course.

Not sure how much of a threat this is going to be to NVidia & Maxwell, not much of one I don't think. I reckon the ARM CPU that will be included on the Maxwell GPU will serve a similar purpose anyway as Mantle - to reduce CPU overhead required (that's just my theory though!).

EDIT: Although, if future games are really leveraged to take full advantage of Mantle, then I could see a bigger gap opening up with Mantle.

 

Agreed fully Robbo

Notebook users who use high end CPUs will have even lower advantages than the +10% the first tests reveal on desktops.
Its because our CPUs are pretty powerful compared to the GPUs we use. If you look at the tests, you see that the weaker the CPU is in relation to the GPU in the system, the bigger gains you see. Its because Mantle reduce CPU bottleneck like I talked about earlier. So if you have an i7 and GCN GPU, you will see very little gains.

On the bright side, I guess future GX notebooks from MSI that use the weak APUs might see bigger gains than this

 

Checking the first tests, mantle is working well with low-end desktop processors. Hopefully this means it will do good things for laptop processors too;







more

 

Yep, it just depends on what laptop processor you have and also what GPU, because it only really helps in CPU limited scenarios. If you've got a Core i7 Sandy Bridge processor and up, then you're not going to see huge benefits. For the AMD mobile processors I would expect quite a jump in performance, especially if they happen to be packed with fast mobile GPU's like the 7970M, 680M. In general though, laptop gaming is limited more by the GPU than the CPU, so perversely I think this benefits the desktop market more, where the Graphics Cards are faster, and the CPU's often times might be pre Sandy Bridge Intel or older AMD processors.

EDIT: Found a performance review article on guru3d for Mantle, about a 10% performance improvement on Battlefield 4 on rigs where they were GPU Bound.. In completely CPU bound scenarios in the same game (lowly CPUs with very strong GPU), then performance increases of 60%. 60% is pretty impressive, that's good news for future games, if they really push the elements that were previously limited by the CPU. Here's the link:
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/amd_mantle_preview,2.html

 

Those with the MSI GX laptops with 7970m or 8970m should be really excited.

 

I disagree with the statement that people with mobile i7 cpus won't see a big difference. The gains for the i7-4770k and i5-4670k are pretty sizable too.

stock:



OC:



( i7-3770k + OC'd R9-290x)


Notice that the results are from multiplayer, not single player which is much less demanding on the CPU.

 

Yes, that's 20% improvement, that's good actually, the guru3d article with a really top notch CPU was 10% improvement. Good to see 20% for those decent CPUs too!

Although, they're paired up with top of the line desktop GPUs, not top of the line or even just high end mobile GPU's. So, we might see 10-20% performance increase if we have decent i7 mobile CPUs and a 7970M perhaps.