Mobile Pascal TDP Tweaker Update and Feedback Thread

@Falkentyne

Nah, I can't help with this, I don't do custom firmware, or try to hack in MXM GPU's that didn't come with the laptop.

You need someone that works with MSI firmware like SVET, not Prema he doesn't get involved with those anymore (at all?), beyond the old Maxwell vbios - but not even sure about Prema doing that on MSI. Maybe using MSI cards on Clevo's

If I got this right, you have a GT73 with 1070 and want to put in a 1080?

I don't think that can be done cleanly... as in "works like it was made that way", you might be able to get it up but not performing fully, or not cooling completely - you probably need new heatpipes / heatplate / heat exchanger / fan(s). New firmware for BIOS -- not sure what other physical differences there are in the 1070 and 1080 models.

Let us know how it works out

 

When someone with a GT80S 980 SLI wanted to unlock the power limit so he could use 2 x 330w PSU's, MSI wouldn't do it - they did a smaller 15% increase for him, but that didn't really help enough.

Svet said he couldn't do that one... maybe he can help with the GT73, but I wouldn't count on it.

 

Hmscott,
I already sent svet a message.
Thank you for replying though!

Pretty much all that has to be done is for the bios or EC to think a GTX 1080 is installed rather than a 1070, so the model becomes "7RF", since it's already capable of it.. I'll let you know what svet says.
Thank you and everyone else for your help!

 

Half BGA. On top, crippled firmware or motherboard limitations. Icing on the cake... Maybe unable to fix it with mod firmware. Damn, I'm happy with Clevo. @Phoenix

 

Well, in MSI's defense they did issue exactly that configuration as a product for the SLI 1070/1080 GT73/GT83, requiring dual PSU's.

MSI didn't think the existing framework would support that much power through the GT80S 980 SLI... it was unfortunately a borderline mistake that MSI didn't jump into dual PSU with that model.

 

It was actually 5% lol. It also wasn't fully locked down because once you hit the 15W battery limit it would start using more AC power, but the throttling once you hit 30% means you can only hold a sustained draw over 324W for around 4 hours. I also asked like a year and change ago, so it's possible Svet has a better understanding of the EC firmware at this point, although I don't think that's his usual fare. I'm sure Prema could do it if he put his mind to it, but he's busy enough as it is.

 

As I have understood, Msi still crippling firmware or MB with power limitations. Single 1080 means 330w psu is max what can be used. Aka same AW18 max power cap from the wall. Newest AWbook's have probably also same power Limits.

 

I think Svet's limitation was that he didn't want to upset MSI by going against their wishes to not exceed the power limitations MSI set in the GT80S to limit potential damage. Svet might be able to do it, but his hands are tied if he wants to keep his good relationship with MSI. MSI hosts his BIOS / vbios mod thread for many years now.

 

So 7RE (1070) model has to be tricked that a 1080 is in use instead of 1070 (1070 comes with 230W PSU, but i am using 330W PSU).
So I don't need 230W limit. I can use full 330W, but I am using modded 1070 vbios...

I really hope someone can do this for me.
I will donate....

@Prema @Papusan save me! save me from BGABOOK!

 

I try everyday, bruh As well also bro @Mr. Fox
Knowledge is King!! And Stupidity can be cured Read the whole thread!!

 

So you measured the original BIOS / EC limit was 306w vs 324w in the "980" update BIOS, so that is the 5%, which is nothing.

You also said 105w per 980 + 45w CPU, which is only 255w as a limit, not sure where that fits in?

Did you get rid of / refunded for that GT80S 980 SLI ok?

@Falkentyne

I think that whole mess is a good example why no one should expect to power unlock MSI laptops, get replacement or patched BIOS / vBIOS for MXM GPU upgrades, and to make the best of what is there, or get rid of it and move on to something that is a better fit for you.

Even if it's clearly a fault in the design, MSI's going to fix it in the next generation model.

MSI aren't going to issue a fix that goes outside their design parameters in the current model. And, it's a waste of time trying to get MSI to risk changes outside their comfort zone.

Laptop upgrades are best done through selling your old laptop and buying a new model with all the associated components upgraded.

It's just the way it is, it's not worth knocking yourself out trying to get around it.

 

Didn't measure it, was told directly by MSI. The 45/105/105 limits kick in when the battery hits 30%. My GT80S is still sitting in the box waiting to be traded in when either Volta comes out or someone wants to buy the Pascal version.

 

@Prema already did do that for HIDevolution with the EVOC 16L-G-1080 BIOS. All traces of throttle feces have been painstakingly removed from the BIOS code, including cancer MSI had embedded in the OS/UI portion of the filthware and EC. Now that all the cancer code is removed, the only stupidity left is inadequate hardware. The motherboard is incapable of handling the power demands that an individual like myself would expect of it. That being said, for a 15-inch micro-beast, it still far exceeds anything most "hardcore gamers" (whatever that means) and average power users would expect of it, and it's still the most lethal little laptop on the market. @Prema is primarily a Clevo guy. His plate is full and there aren't enough hours in a day for tending to all of the needs of Clevo, so taking on extra projects for MSI customers probably isn't going to happen. The only reason he did the firmware mod for HIDevolution was because they are a great PremaMod Partner Shop. It was a LOT of work fixing everything MSI buggered up, so it was definitely a labor of love.

I think that is sound advice. I'd never buy a BGA version in the first place, but they clearly are not building machines for people like myself. Clevo is the best and only good option short of going back to building your own desktop monster PC.

This kind of stupidity is unacceptable and a great reason to never buy one. An MSI notebook should run exactly the same regardless of what amount of charge is in the battery, or with the battery completely removed. I've been running my P870 with no battery for two weeks with no discernible change in performance. This should apply to any and all notebooks, including mainstream consumer garbage. Engineering a notebook in such a way that is has any reliance on the main system battery for full performance functionality is an unforgivable level of retardedness. Silly engineering shenanigans like this is what gives notebooks a bad reputation among performance PC enthusiasts.

 

I think forcing 7RF detection with GTX 1070 installed for GT73VR to force 330W power to be used is comparatively easy, compared to allow MORE than 330W for 1080 vbios mod users (although I don't know if 7RE to 7RF force detection is done via a Bios mod or EC firmware). I checked the two firmwares byte for byte on 7RE and 7RF and they are byte for byte identical. So it has to be the video card type being detected. If this can be forced to 7RF mode from Svet Mod, and Bios or EC uses 330W for 7RE users, then I'll reflash the vBios with boost 3 clocks enabled (86.04.56.00.3A) instead of 86.04.5B.00.8A, so I can get 170W power draw.

However people with GTX 1080's already are going to have a problem.
How much do you want to bet the 7RF (with 1080) will "CPU power limit 2" throttle if maximum load exceeds 330W with modded 1080? Maybe Svet can fix 1070 detection to force 1080 mode (7RE to 7RF), but people with 1080's are going to run into problems if they exceed 330W....

 

Ha, have you tried modding the NVidia driver so that it reports as GTX 1080 in the Device Manager - it's not changing the hardware ID of the card, but just joining the existing hardware ID of your GTX 1070 with the false name of a GTX 1080? I'm relatively certain that little trick wouldn't work in terms of tricking the laptop firmware into thinking it had a GTX 1080, but I guess you never know! (I suppose the firmware detects the card on the hardware ID level rather than the name applied in the OS, but I don't know.)

 

No, this has nothing to do with the Nvidia driver. It's EC or Bios firmware. Check @Mr. Fox 's post above.
I already contacted Svet. He knows and understands what I am asking about and will contact me about it later, he's busy now.
The only two people who are skilled enough to change Bios level detection are Svet and @Prema

If I didn't have to disassemble the laptop and do all the work to reassemble, I would hex edit the vbios and put in the 1080 vbios ID into the file, see if I have to correct any checksum, and try to flash that and see if it boots, detects 7RF, or black screens. Not going to bother...even if THAT actually worked Bios level, the Nvidia drivers would cause serious problems or maybe damage...i'll just wait for Svet to investigate the Bios or EC. I just need the Bios to think I have a 1080 installed (again this is a pure educated guess. Maybe there is some extra special chip on the GT73VR that is programmed at the factory for 7RE or 7RF, maybe, but that is sort of illogical. Costs more money to do that compared to a simple device ID check...)

 

When I run the heaven benchmark uncapped the perfcap reason is Pwr/Idle.

When I run any game, capped or uncapped, the perfcap reason is VRel.

 

Idle (blank bar) means the GPU is in full use and under its power limit, which is good.
Util means unutilized (idle).
VREL means voltage rellability, when you are running at the edge of the automatic overclocking limit. You will get this when the clock speeds are past the boost 1 clocks.
You will usually not reach the end of the boost 3 (automatic overclocking) clocks in heavy load benchmarks.

 

IOW: there's nothing I can do without modding the voltage...possibly.

it caps out at 1.063v.

 

1.025 or below is ideal for perf/watt.

 

Alienware 15R3 GTX 1070, GPU @+200 +500 150-170W TDP



http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/21052280

edit : Finally TL866A made the job, the Pomona clip may have helped a lot.

 

what's scares me is how many VRMs and power chokes it's missing so it might not be powering it to the same level. my MSI 1070 scored higher on a lower OC....probably due to having more VRMs, power chokes.

A stock score would be nice though.

 

Hello. Sorry to have to come and ask over here (as this is a laptop forum). But do any of you guys have an opinion whether this method will / wont work for desktop [pascal] GPUs also?

Because no matter how hard I search, theres nothing comes up by google about people hardware flashing their GTX 1080 cards to get around the driver signing issue. So if any of you guys can shed any light on that I would be very grateful.

There is a hard mod for raising vcore [on desktop]... but these hard mods are not ideal. Since they involve soldering extra potentiometer circout, onto SMD mount area of the board. Its more dangerous to perform than would be for [doing this way] hardware flashing the BIOS chip with a removable SPI clip. e.g. if anything were to go wrong can always reflash back the original BIOS.

Many thanks for any valuable insights.

 

There are 2 more chokes and VRM in the mobo 's lower part, you can't see them on this picture.
The issue is heat. 84°C brings a lot of thermal throtlling. I made a quick and dirty repast 'cause i didn't know if i'll have to reflash again following a brick.

Non OC run with modded VBios:
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/21052079
Max GPU temp 83°C.

 

It will work but you will need to edit the vBIOS manually, since in most cases the addresses are different. Im using my own modded vBIOS on my EVGA FE 1080Ti.

 

Thanks for this! If have any other kinds of relevant links or guides to share on this general topic. Then would be very grateful. Will also catchup in this thread too of course. Kind regards.

[EDIT] oh, and if you can say if / how much modding your 1080ti BIOS improved the card's performance.

 

For 1080p / 1440p Benchmarks, barely did anything. Card was already clocking 2100Mhz @ 1.062V under water. With the mod and power limits removed, i was able to sustain those clocks @ 4k.
For gaming, it wont matter at all, maybe a tiny bit at 4k, but for anything else, the gains in fps are maybe 2-3fps at the most.

 

Do you have a hardware flasher?
Even if you mess up, all you have to do is just hardware flash the original desktop Bios back on if your system doesn't POST. That's what's good about hardware flashers.

All you will need for flashing (and this makes it much easier) are the following:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HHH65T4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 <--this clip is sturdy, very important and you'll find out after you compare it to a cheap prebuilt clip.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DC74A9Y/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 <--You are going to use this to build your own dongle. You only need the cables with the two female ends. Feel free to save the extra cables for something useful. They make very nice jumper blocks. You will connect the cables from the Pomona clip, to the SOIC 8-16 "blue" adapter board. Then the blue adapter board goes onto the green 1.8v adapter. (if i'm wrong someone correct me).

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072KYK2DR/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 <--this adapter is essential. @Coolane has one which supports 1.8v directly on the main flasher (via the back pins, as that one has an extra set just for 1.8v) but most flashers won't have them, and you would probably have to order one of those from China. This is cheaper and faster.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DZC36GY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 <--the skypro works well, but it requires the above 1.8v adapter.

There's only one problem: The skypro doesn't come with the assembled SOP8-SOP 16-8 pin adapter board (SOIC-8-16).
I believe it comes with a compatible board, but you would have to solder the pins on.
So finding a preassembled one is harder. It looks just like this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SOP8-SOP16-...D-SOIC-8-16-/401362647418?hash=item5d7313f97a
I had one already from the RT809F flasher.

Here's a link, but do yourself a favor and don't use that clip: build your own with the above Pomona clip and cables, it's easy.

https://www.amazon.com/Signstek-SOI...1500147028&sr=1-2&keywords=SOIC+adapter+board


If you like the skypro, something that might be fun if you want offline flashing is the skypro II: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Sky...offline-programming-offline/32655341936.html?

To wire up the clip once you get it, remember to wire it counter clockwise, just like the direction the pins on the boards go (notice that pin 1 on the PCB is top left corner and goes around?). It's extremely easy. I would wire pin 1 on the pomona clip at either the top right or bottom left (inverted). Because pin 1 on the vbios is at the top right/bottom left. Just make sure you connect the pins correctly to the SOIC8 adapter. (example: if pin 1 on your pomona clip is top right and pin 1 on the SOIC8 is top left, you'll have to to give the wires a twist (it's extremely obvious once you see it).

The critical thing is to make sure what is "pin 1" on the vbios chip connects electronically to pin 1 on the SOIC8 adapter board.

There are 16 pin pomona clips also (for larger IC's).

 

Thanks for all these infos Falkentyne. Unfortunately I don't [edit] LIVE in NA region, so the best clip is not available to me (without paying over 2x costs, with shipping and taxes to order it from the UK)...

What I do have available are listed here:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=SOIC8+clip

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_sop=15&_nkw=SOIC8+clip&rt=nc&LH_PrefLoc=1

So if you do happen to see in those lists any specific clips there which are positively good or bad ones... please let me know. I would be very grateful not to order something useless. Since there are so many bad clips around. And such few decent / nice clips.

As for programmer, I guess I might not have a 1,8v spi converter. But I do have a Teensy++ 2.0, which is an 'arduino-style' device. Technically it is capable of SPI flashing... (and I have done before for other products). This Teensy device is a 3.3v cmos low-voltage. They are a bit static sensitive too. Anyhow it works with an existing a python script 'norway'. Which might just be possible to modify / make work.

Not in any big rush here. Its just for future, to have some fun and see what can be done with it. Many thanks again for these help.

 

If you are looking for a clip: the most important things are 1)
how narrow the plastic teeth are (around the metal contacts). You want something with a 'narrow' footprint. Look at the footprint of the pomona clip. That's something you want. If you have something that has 'thicker' teeth around the metal contacts, you run into trouble because of the resistors on the board that can block a full grip. I had that problem with this clip I bought:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B015W4PKR6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

You can look at it and see what i'm talking about.
Compare this clip:
https://www.amazon.com/Signstek-SOI...1500147028&sr=1-2&keywords=SOIC+adapter+board

That one would work better.

Did you check amazon.co.uk?
I found some stuff there already.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/TEST-CLIP-...F8&qid=1500152097&sr=8-1&keywords=Pomona+5250
https://www.amazon.co.uk/POM-5250-T...F8&qid=1500152097&sr=8-3&keywords=Pomona+5250

There's a skypro there too but it uses a USB type (i dont know what it's called) connector instead of micro USB like the one in USA. I don't know if they're the same firmware; there are firmware updates for them though.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/DIY-Tool...&qid=1500152192&sr=8-1&keywords=skypro+eeprom

 

Thanks! Was using the wrong search terms... so have found it on eBay now

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/122562452192

Thank you for finding this too. Have bookmarked / saved all of it. Will come back to all this later on when have more time.

 

My guess is that you don't have enough heat pipes to exhaust all the heat or you're just using the stock fan curves. I'd try and see if you can run your fans at 100% to see what temps you get.

But, your stock score is within the margin of error for the desktop 1070. The question is why are you getting a lower graphics score on a higher OC? I think you might be better off running at stock clocks.

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

 

Remember that you also need the SOIP8 socket adapter board, the 1.8v adapter board, and the wire jumper cables that I mentioned in my above post. I don't know how you would find those. They're not uncommon though.

 

• First try Modded VBIOS without OC, Graphic score: 18 539.
• Second try Modded VBIOS with OC, Graphic score: 20 344.
• Not Modded VBIOS with OC, Graphic score: 19 277.

NBC's 15R3 Stock Graphic score: 17675.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Alienware-15-R3-Notebook-Review.196584.0.html

 

Yeah that's legit.
I get about 20,400 with 250 core +400 memory, with boost 3 clocks disabled (8A Bios modded to desktop TDP, core clock 1885 mhz at all times without throttling).
Apparently having the boost 3 clocks isn't that important in benchmarks since the boost 3 clocks will temp throttle anyway.

 

That's within the range for a mobile 1070. No surprise that the MXM 1070 has more gain over the BGA 1070.

I'd run the test again but with fans at 100%.

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

 

Why is your GPU core clock reported as 4250Mhz on your modded vBIOS? It's reported OK on your unmodded vBIOS. Good scores.

 

Pictures of my programmer and connections (I don't recommend my programmer and clip, the better combination is: Skypro + 1.8V adapter + Pomona clip, referred here: http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-feedback-thread.806161/page-28#post-10565153):


Example of flashing (procedures might vary a little bit depending on the type of programmer, please refer to your instruction):
Also, remember to backup your original vBIOS, .

Next time when some of you are flashing your chips, maybe take some pictures and share here, it will help out some new flashers.

 

The sofitech sp16-b is fine, just not the price. The cheapo clip don't buy.

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

 

hey guys im new here. just purchased a gl702vs 1070m version. my card stays at power limit all the time and i was wondering if i would be able to do this vbios mod? also im not very good at this type of modding since it is way more in depth. would anyone be able to mod my vbios so i woud have slider open for power limit? very tired of only being able to run 1700 mhz in my 1070..... any higher and it just fluctiates everywere depending on the game

 

You need to do your research and find out what mainboard that uses and how much it has in common with the ROG G800, because the G800 has a GTX 1080. The Strix is much slimmer and you need to read the Asus forums and find out what the power delivery specifications are. While the card might be able to handle a 150W TDP, you have to make sure the motherboard power delivery can deliver that much power without burning something out. Clevos, for example, have an auxilary power connector for 1080's; I'm not sure about 1070's, but those can handle 150W through the MXM port. MSI uses the same motherboard for the Titan series for 1070 and 1080 exactly, but their 1080's are limited to 150W (while clevos I think are 190W). So make sure your motherboard can supply 150W through the MXM slot. It's your choice, feel free to tell us how it goes.

 

Another thing is the long wait. As I recall, it shipped from China.

 

If the same slot in the same motherboard can power a 150W 1080 with no connector, I would feel completely safe powering a 150W 1070.

The general rule of thumb is the slot can peak to 200W, whether it is safe sustaining that (or more) comes down to how the mobo is made.

It would be nice if we could know the specs on power components to know what they can handle and how much they leak at certain power levels, or temp sensors around the cards etc. to be able to get some understanding of what level of stress a card is under at the clocks/volts/power limits

 

We know, thanks to @Khenglish, that both MXM slots in the P870DM-G can "support" (and I am using that word loosely since I don't plan on going higher than the desktop 1070 TDP) up to 266W per slot.

That means the P870DM-G has a decent power circuitry to handle at 1070N with desktop TDP settings without issue. I might have to buy more heatpipes to attach to the heatsink.

 

@bennyg
Please read @Prema 's posts and also a few others farther back.
It's not the slot. Coolane has managed to pull 200W from the slot.
It's the power delivery system itself. On the motherboard. It has something to do with the chokes and the number of phases on the MXM card An entire range of Gecube MXM cards blew out because the cards phases couldn't handle the power draw. And some other posts discussed some motherboards that couldn't handle the power load while the cards themselves could, so parts on the mainboards blew (not related to 1070's but 980's). So you have to make sure that the Asus mainboard can handle the load. If the Strix uses the exact same motherboard as the G800, but with cut down features, then it probably can. But you have to make sure you do your research. Of course you can just go all in, but you have to accept the results.

 

Heading for 21K graphic score :
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/21066179

15R3's maximum fan does a very good job indeed. Max GPU temp 79°C.
CPU locked @3.6GHz max 80°C.

 

oh man, if only this kit would work in a DM1:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Upgrade-...307098?hash=item4406b5161a:g:tFgAAOSw9OFZKruR

 

may be this (US $1,183.11)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MSI-MS16L1-...IDIA-GTX-1080-8GB-DDR5-MXM-3-0b-/122498233515

 

definitely not.

 

Guys, try to keep your TDP under 200W and DO NOT use Furmark!
I think my motherboard just failed after constantly delivering 230W for 30 mins only through the MXM board. It aged first then suddenly died, so you might not see it's coming.