Mobile Pascal TDP Tweaker Update and Feedback Thread

Ugh..aged? (what does that mean?)
And sorry about that.
I think no one should exceed 170W without an auxiliary power connector (like some of the 1080 clevos have)

 

Doesn't help with Clevo, if the 1070 haven't the needed auxiliary power connector

 

OK, I'm staying under 170W. I've had it like that for about 2-3 weeks now and so far no power related issues. I can even live with running stock core and memory clocks because the performance is essentially on par with the desktop 1070 without the OC.

*touch wood*

I also have furmark installed so I better uninstall that when I get home. I also keep the majority of games capped to 60fps anyway so the TDP doesn't go crazy.

 

151-170W is ok if your board was designed to handle both a GTX 1080 (150W) and GTX 1070 (115W). A GTX 1070 should never reach power limits anyway. Maybe it might if boost 2 clocks are enabled, but I match desktop 1070's at 1886 mhz, +500 Ram, with boost 2 clocks disabled (8A Bios), so that's good enough for me. I'm still trying to determine if I can exceed 230W on a GT73VR 7RE somehow, when using a 330W PSU.

 

I can beat a desktop 1070 without the need for overclocking.

 

That's because it automatically overclocks (boost 2 clocks).
1443 mhz base ->1643 mhz (boost) ->1843 mhz (boost 2).
Boost 2 are limited by TDP and temperature limit.
Boost 1 are limited by TDP limit.

 

And that's fine....for me.

FS Graphics scores:

GTX 980TI - 16961 (-12.5%)
Laptop 1070 - 17113.2 (-11.5%)
Desktop 1070 - 18092 (-5.5%)
(My) Laptop 1070 + TDP - 19084 (100%)

That's an 11.5% increase of the laptop 1070 and a 5.5% bump over the desktop 1070. So can't complain....especially when you have an extra set of CUDA cores over the desktop 1070.

With the TDP bump on the 1070 you're essentially running better than a Titan X (Maxwell) level GPU, and in a laptop it's pretty amazing.

 

Motherboard has power delivering components to provide power through the MXM slot to the card. While graphics cards were designed with consideration of high power output (1070&1080>200W), but not just through the motherboard MXM itself. I guess that's why they added the power connector to help delivering more power safely. Since I had been overloading my MXM slot over 200W, it's possible the components on the motherboard aged and gave up.

 

I'll keep the TDP where it is thanks!

 

I use AfterBurner freq/volt curves to limit the TDP for gaming. I can achieve a stable 1822MHz just under 900mV and draw about 144W on my BGA 1070 with +500Mhz Offset Vmem.
Gives a Nice 19k3 Graphic score in FF.

 

Yeees, bruh

 

Looks like the 15R3's GTX 1070 can draw the same amount as the 17R4's GTX 1080. Mobo's layout for 1080 and 1070 are the same on 17R4 and 15R3 :

17R4 1080


15R3 GTX 1070


I feel releaved. This GTX 1070 really needed to be Bios Modded with higher Power Limit. It was as Crippled as Max-Q 1080.

 

Are the chips certainly identical? Looking at it then yes it seems they have kept the same power circuitry though.

What's the maximum output of it?

 

17R4's GTX1080 is rated 150W and draws about 170-180W, but with the latest Vbios from AlienWare it can reach 200W.

 

It's not that bad that! So even though it is all BGA, it seems pretty capable as a laptop - and I suppose with the lack of upgradeability compatibility on MXM laptops it doesn't really make much difference if you go soldered or MXM, it's all pretty much locked down in terms of upgradeability. If I was gonna buy a gaming laptop, I'd just get one with best performance/cooling/price, etc, I don't think MXM or soldered would come into it. Now if MXM laptops were upgradeable over future GPU generations like the good old original Alienware M15x, then that would be awesome!

 

The remaining issue is CPU and GPU high temps and next the 240W AC adapter I'll need to replace for a 330W one.

 

Ah right, well you gotta keep it cool, otherwise all these increase TDP mods amount to almost nothing I imagine, didn't realise you were having CPU/GPU temperature issues.

 

You're lucky you can do that.

Problem I'm having is the GT73VR seems to be *hard capped* to 230W, and I don't know how to remove it. Mainboard, system Bios and EC firmware is identical to 7RF. I am using the 330W PSU, not the 230W one. Yet system starts drawing from the battery at >150W, and at >210W, it triggers power limit 2 (EDP other) throttle to TDP the CPU back to 45W (regardless what is set in the Bios for anything). I tried paging @Mr. Fox and @Prema but I guess they are both angry at me now, I don't know why. I never did anything bad to either of them Svet is busy atm and can't look into this right now, even though I offered to donate $100. All I need to do is remove the 230W limit, so I can use the 330W brick I paid money for

I have RW Everything but I have no idea what is limiting the power draw.

 

Nope, I am not mad at you bro. No reason to be. I haven't seen your tags. I saw this one and looked. I do not know how to answer your question about the issues with the GT73VR you are having. If I knew what to tell you, I'd do so in a heartbeat. I would dearly love to be able to solve your problem. Resolving that problem on the firmware side might create a new one on the hardware end. @Prema removed the power limits on the 16L13 so instead of throttling like a broken gamer-child's toy, it just runs out of power and shuts off like my overclocked Alienware monsterbooks used to do with a single 330W AC adapter.

The only real solution is for MSI to stop selling emasculated crap, like most of their competitors. I don't think any of us should hold our breath on that though. All of the OEMs seem to have a knack for that kind of nonsense. Some are just worse than others.

 

Yes you're right. That's why my next laptop will be a prema modded (Hopefully 6 core) cannon lake Clevo or 16L13 (whichever one you think is best) laptop with a LGA CPU.
I'm not trying to remove the power limits like you guys did though. I'm just trying to allow the laptop to use the full 330W, which seems to be a limit coded in somewhere.
Something programmed in makes this a 7RE instead of a 7RF, which changes the max power allowed from 330W (7RF) to 230W (7RE) despite exact same hardware (only difference is the video card).

I looked in RW everything and couldn't find anything that makes sense.
I figured someone who has access to a 7RE or 7RF might be able to find out what changes the max power in the 7RF vs 7RE so I can mod mine to use the full 330W.

I'm guessing it's probably one or two values somewhere, because both 7RE and 7RF act the same way besides power draw:
1) if battery cable is removed, total system power is limited to 60%
2) (not fully sure: if battery is below 25%, total system power is limited to 60%).
3) Both 7RE and 7RF will PL2 the CPU if total power draw is >90% of the max rating (330W, 230W). The only difference is the max rating. But where is this max rating stored at? (it has to be accessible to be changed).

I'm sure if @Prema stepped in he would know if this were accurate or not.

If my 7RE could have that limit changed from 230W to 330W I could rest and be happy long time (until I buy a prema modded 6 core laptop!).

 

It could be in the EC, in the BIOS code, or even somewhere the BIOS OS UI. You'd have to check all of those places, and it may be in more than one place. I suspect you would have to hunt it down and that might not be an easy task. Then, once you find and fix it, if you do, there would have to be a way of flashing it. Probably would have to use a hardware programmer, since software flashing of a moddel firmware will be blocked.

 

Hi @Mr. Fox ,
The "Bios Lock" flag is disabled (I can toggle it off) so technically I could flash a modified Bios from within windows, as @sirgeorge did on his, in his post:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...owners-and-discussions-lounge.794968/page-763

But that's part of the problem:
1) The bios files on the 7RE and 7RF are byte for byte identical.
2) the EC firmware files (from the MSI website) on the 7RE and 7RF are byte for byte identical.

That's the problem. The files are identical. The mainboard is identical.
That's why that is causing me so much stress. And it's a rather important question to ask below:

@Mr. Fox any chance you can ask @Prema to look at my post and see if he knows what's up? (I'm not asking him to do a mod, although I'll be fully honest--I would gladly donate $100 to him if he did).
Basically its only 1 of two possibilities here unless @Prema knows more:

1) is 7RE (230W) or 7RF (330W) somehow hard coded some place in some other location, outside of the Bios, and preset at the factory?
2) or (and this is a rather...important question actually)-- is 7RE, or 7RF, dependent on the video card ID that is installed? (e.g. GTX 1070=7RE, GTX 1080=7RF?).
Maybe I'm crazy or a fool, but #2 is not impossible. The bios can actually detect what wifi card installed (e.g. Intel 8265) directly, and even shows the Vbios ID code (but only says "GP104 board" after the vbios code)

If it's #2, then it might be much easier for someone like Svet or Prema to write a mod to 'trick' a 7RE to act like a 7RF (making it think a 1080 is installed) thus=it can use the full 330W power brick.

I have the 330W Delta power brick.

Permission to speak freely, please?
(why is this relevant and why am I making a stink about it?).

Because you saw what happened to @Coolane 's laptop.
If the MSI GT73VR 7RE's GTX 1070 has a TDP of 115W and a GTX 1080 in the GT73VR 7RF hase a TDP of 150W, and the MXM slot is designed to handle 150W, it's MUCH MUCH safer to TDP mod a 1070 in a 7RE to 150W, than to mod a 1080 in a 7RF to 200W, as the 7RF mod to 200W 1080 might risk blowing out something (no one knows yet if the GT73VR can handle that much through the slot).

But the difference is, with a 150W 1070, you only have 80W of total power remaining on the 230W PSU it comes with, while on a 200W 1080, you have 130W remaining.
(again I do not know if the 1080 on the MSI is 150W or not).

Egro, allowing the full 330W to be used on the 7RE and modding a 1070 to remain within the MXM slot specification makes a lot more sense.

I hope i made sense and didn't ramble too much

BTW @Mr. Fox
There's 1 more thing:

If you use AMIBCP to edit the .119 Bios file, and you go to "system information"
and then you go to 'Marketing name',
the field there says "Please Change Product Name." it does not say 7RE or 7RF.

 

Actually his GPU died. Not the motherboard.

 

so a replacement and lower TDP should do the trick?

 

You should PM him and ask. But I'm almost sure MOTHERBOARD meant "Laptop motherboard." if it were the MXM card, he would have said the MXM card died.

But if I were one of you guys, I would throw $100 his way for his hard work so he can get another card. Without his work, we would all be dealing with Ngreedia and nazi BGA Filth user lockouts.

@Mr. Fox
I'll make you a deal and you guys can use it for whatever bios advancement you need for the future.

If Prema is willing to assist me with unlocking the full 330W (That "please change product name" above should be a big clue), I can donate $100 to him this month and $100 the next month. I think that's fair.

Money is supposed to make people motivated and that's how business works. Since none of this is a charity anymore (due to the # of people who took advantage of @Prema 's hard work), I don't mind letting some coin flow.

 

all @Coolane needs to do is grab a spare card like a 980M and see if it still boots.

 

Hey guys.
After further diagnostic, I have confirmed that it's the dead of my graphics card(MSI 1070). After I took out the dead graphics card, I can boot up my laptop again(just no screen).

Before I find out what really killed my card, you guys with MSI 1070s or cards that do not have power connector, I highly recommend you all to stay below 200W(design limit for MXM port). Especially if your cards are soldered on the board. Also, try avoid using Furmark.

 

Most of the users here doing modding or testing are not motivated by cash. They are doing it just because they love and enjoy doing it, at least that's what I have seen. Bringing up money too often will not help your situation, at least in my opinion.

 

I see, thank you.

 

Brother @Falkentyne I do not have the knowledge or skill to help you with this. I do not have any BIOS modding knowledge... zero. I'm strictly a friend and a tester. All of the talent belongs to @Prema and I know he is extremely busy working on things he has a commitment and obligation to. I have no doubt he would like helping solve your problem if he had the time and knew it would not fall into hands that would exploit it, because he is a super awesome nice gentleman. I cannot speak for his availability or appetite for risk, so he would have to respond to you privately. If I knew how, I'd help you right now, but I don't have a clue what needs to be done. If MSI went to a lot of trouble to make it act that way, it might be very difficult to fix it.

Well, I am sad your 1070 died, but also glad to know the laptop itself is still kicking. Replacing the GPU is an easy fix as long as you have the money for a new one. I was pretty sure it was the GPU, but it was only a guess based on what I saw in your video. I saw similar behavior whenever 980M cards went tits up on the P8. That being said, a motherboard might have been a less expensive part to replace, but not as fast and simple to swap out in just a few minutes.

 

Right! I feel better it's just the dead of the GPU instead of the motherboard. When I was overheating the 970Ms in the past, the motherboard would beep loudly when it failed to detect thermal signal from the card. I completely didn't expect the motherboard would be silent and failed to be turned on when the GPU died, while taking out the card it works just fine, weird design.

 

Not unheard of.
When my AMD HD7970 (desktop) died, the motherboard failed to POST at all with the card inserted. No beeps, nothing. But with another working card it fired up instantly.

 

Great, just get another 1070 and keep it to 151-170W.

but good that the motherboard did not go bust.

 

I checked with @Prema first to make sure I was not steering you in the wrong direction. You can stop playing with the BIOS. You don't want to brick your system with experiments. The EC is what controls the power cap/limits for laptops, which can obviously vary based on the GPU installed.

You need to get the EC from Svet or a MSI vendor. Flash that. The EC is not GPU-specific. During the flash it will determine what GPU is installed and set the power limits MSI wants it to have. That should resolve your issue. Changing the GPU after the EC was programmed could be why you have power limits that are wrong. So, flashing the EC with proper tools for MSI notebooks might fix your problem. You won't fix it messing with the BIOS.

Edit: see comments below for the best explanation. Mine was off.

 

@Falkentyne

The EC checks for the installed GPU model and sets the maximum power draw automatically. No check is done during the flash and there is no 'other' stock EC which would change this...
MSI started it but Clevo does the same on all it's LGA boards ever since the original DM-series, limits are just removed in the premamod versions...

 

Will there ever be an updated bios for the DM1? or is it a lost cause?

 

I am only really online because @Mr. Fox asked me to reply to @Falkentyne , maybe one day I'll finish this alpha with Plug'n'Play Pascal & KBL support:

http://valid.x86.fr/vwsrm6

Right now I have my hands full...

 

no drama.

 

Thank you for your assistance, @Prema
I suspected that it was the GPU type triggering the AC power limits but I wasn't fully sure. Thank you!

 

I'd donate to it.

Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk

 

If anyone is still here, has their 1070 and SPI flasher, can you do a favor for me? (please).

If you don't mind 'tweaking' something, can you try this and tell me if it works (e.g. if you can actually game with it AND more importantly, what your motherboard Bios detects?).

Use a hex editor and modify the GTX 1070 vbios file: (any vbios will do, edited or not edited by the pascal bios editor, just has to be a 1070 vbios)

at the very top of the file, you will see "GP104 E2914 SKU 10 VGA Bios".

Change the 2914 to a 5 (2915), save the file then flash it (check it in the editor first):

the pascal editor will say this is a GTX 1080...

(the pascal editor will say no checksum correction is needed).
*Edit* put in original checksum then corrected it in the tool.
thank you @Coolane

Are you able to actually install the Nvidia drivers with this?
Are the clocks correct? Do they still match the 1070 clocks?
Does Afterburner screw up because it think it's a 1080 (assuming you were able to boot).

Can you game with this setup?
Does the motherboard Bios (EC firmware) detect that the card is a 1080 and thus increase the total amount of available system power that can be used?
Does the motherboard 'model' name change (Example: Gt73VR 7RE ->GT73VR 7RF?).

I need to know especially if 1) the clocks are correct, 2) what your motherboard BIOS detects, 3) if your laptop suddenly increases the power limits it can draw from the AC adapter (example: 230W->330W, but you must be using a 330W PSU!). 4) if you can actually install the Nvidia drivers without black screening and play games without problems (I find it hard to believe that the RAM clocks would actually be stable in this case).

(I guess this depends on if the Bios reads the device ID or reads the ID of the string at the top...)

 

I'd only go so far as to mod the vbios but not flash it as i don't have enough thermal paste to cover testing it.

 

I'm almost sure the single 1080 graphics used in MSI GT73VR 7RF is rated +200w TGP. MXM > TGP (entire board incl. vRAM etc). Not the same as BGA TDP (chip only) numbers. Clevo and (Msi with single 1080) push for maxed specs for 1080.

 

A

Any visible signs of what failed on the GPU?

 

It would probably be the VRMs or power chokes.

 

If the board detects a short it will not start properly as that would blow something else up.

 

Welp doesn't work.
Board is reading the device ID, like @Coolane suggested. Still says 7RE and 1070.
(can't say I'm surprised; GPU-Z would show a 1080 if it actually worked).

I knew that would be too easy....

 

Didn't see any sign of burning and smoking, not sure what is broken. I will ship it to @Khenglish for further diagnostic and attempt of repair.

 

Doc @Khenglish to the rescue!

 

I found these two numbers in the Vbios not far after the first page.

750029150010 for GTX 1080
725029140010 for GTX 1070.

@Coolane said they probably identify the graphics card name but absolutely not the device ID.
I wonder if I should take apart the laptop again and SPI flash the 1080 value of 750029150010 and overwrite the 1070 value of 725029140010 ?

Probably no change this value change would identify (to the laptop itself, not to the Nvidia drivers) that a '1080' is installed and change the 7RE into a 7RF (thus giving me 330W of system total power?)

Probably not huh

Or am I wasting my time? This takes forever to do with my health issue (SPI flashing with the Pomona clip (THANK YOU @Coolane !!) is 10x easier than taking apart and reassembling and repasting the laptop ....)

About the dead 1070 above:
@Coolane if its not a phase/mosfet that blew its probably one of those little tiny chips that are a pain in the butt to even know which one went out