New details about Nvidia`s Maxwell

That would be some good news then. I wonder how the yields are. Those would dictate whether or not the transition would be practical, right? I wish there was a TSMC/nVidia engineer here who could leak stuff

 

As someone who is about to pull the trigger on a Sager 8268 or 8258, this worries me. I'm still not sure which 8xx I should get - probably 870 or 880 since they are the only ones available in the 8258 whose chassis I love - but is the 880 really worth $150 more than the 870? And they can't boost? and they run hot? ugh.

EDIT: Whoops, the 870 is $150 more than the 860, and 880 is $300 more than the 870. I'm so damn confused about which one to buy lol.

 

Well, not to diverge too much from the Maxwell discussion, but in my very subjective view and experience, I'd look at it like this:

• 870m will provide you enough (but just enough) power to run most games at highest settings at 1080p. That said, there are a couple titles coming out this year that will really push the envelope.
• 880m will run pretty much all games at highest settings at 1080p with juice to spare. It will likely run those upcoming games at highest as well.

I guess the question comes down to: are you willing to scale back your settings i upcoming games a bit, or is running at highest settings an absolute requirement for you (for me, unfortunately for my wallet, it is).

 

MAY is when the working Desktop Maxwell ES of high end be distributed, this is when leaks start to come up, but again, they will be mere in terms of content compared to what we got with titan, 600 series.

One is confirmed for sure: Maxwell is the monster, especially with the performance of what is not even Desktop 880(which used to/had to be it in the past)

."cough" And don't forget to Welcome Project Denver along with it "cough"

 

I question the idea that if the chip cost $20 more to make, that the end consumer will only pay $20 more. This would presume they are selling for cost, or only want a fixed profit, disregarding margin. Is this what they have done before when manufacturing costs increased?

 

I forgot about Project Denver. Exciting times ahead!

 

There are probably other things involved too for sure, so one can never know if they would use the opportunity to charge more than +$20, say $100, for the greatest GPU because they know it will sell anyway.
Other unknows are if it have a unboard ARM processor. In that case, it will add cost for the GPU.

I really don`t care. I`m buying it anyway

They said yields was 50% about 14 days ago. That was for Apple`s A8 processors. Apple had a requirement of 40% to give an "all clear" to TSMC to ramp up production for their chips. I think yields vary between complexity of the design the different customers to TSMC use, not just for the 20nm wafer production itself.

 

You guys have Prema that can help you out to mod BIOS if its needed to support new GPUs. I`m sure he would gladly help.
But I think $2000 should be enough for a 17" with GTX 880MX? I know my MSI GT70 cost $1999 when I bought it with GTX 680M back in the days. I am sure Clevo is around the same price level as MSI if not cheaper.
But ya, not easy finding a $2000 in UK though. I hear you, I live in this stinking norwegian country with outrageous prices too. Its like the shops think you are a millionaire lol

Nah, if you cant get one for $2000, fingers crossed that the P170SM supports Maxwell when that day comes

 

Right. 880m isn't bad, per se, it's just that it's not much of an upgrade for someone running a 780m and near the limits of what the stock PSU can offer. That being said, the BIOS can be modded I'm sure to improve performance as well as buying a newer PSU for more power draw.

 

So pumped right now. Lot of info provided today. This means that Launch is really close! I might get a sneak peak at early "real" gtx 880Desktop card performance wise pretty soon(TM)(lol) when it will be distributed to the early adaptors(not talking about consumers here).

also, r9295x is bulldozer, if u know what I mean

 

Looking forward to seeing news about new Desktop cards, desperately need an update in mine...

@Sin, what do you mean bulldozer? It's 3 year old APU?

 

I have a strong update urge as well I feel for u man.




This is what it is as a card Not for consumers really

 

but is the most powerful gpu to be on the market, not considering 790.

 

I hope the MSI laptops are compatible with maxwell if not then I have an excuse to get a new one lol hoping for 3K Alienware or might just get the gt60 3k...

Sent from my LG-D800 using Tapatalk

 

Yeah I really, really hope that Prema can work his magic! Or even better, if it just supports the thing straight out of the box - like MXM is supposed to! I just looked at the price of the new GTX 880M - $1085 here in UK (ouch) via upgrademonkey - but sooo much better than a whole new laptop!

 

So, what would you recommend to someone that is purchasing a new laptop today and wanted more punch than a 860M provided? I missed the 780M in a Sager NP8275 because of the refresh (they disappeared before I pulled the trigger). Now all that is available from nVidia in a new Sager NP8278 is the 800 series, so I bought the 880M.

Time will tell if this will work out for me. I really needed to replace my 3 year old M4500. The 8GB RAM was maxed out and I was bumping up against that on a daily basis.

 

If any of these games are anything like Far Cry 3 or Metro you can turn the graphics down and not even notice the difference during gameplay..

 

880m is fine, really, especially if your machine is aging. Just that the PSU in the Clevo is borderline running at stock or slightly overclocked settings is all.

Look for a Dell PA-9E PSU and pick up one of these adapters: X75 Power Connector - 7.4 x 5.08mm Female Jack to 5.5 x 2.5mm Male Plug

Works like a charm!

 

Agreed, especially at 1080p you're really not losing much going from ultra high to high in many games.

I'm actually thinking I'm going to sit out the ultra high end cards this round as I really don't have time to worry about having the highest IQ anymore -- I'm finding I'm much more interested in enjoying actual games nowadays as long as the graphical quality is good and frame rate is smooth. 870m or maybe dual 860ms may be more than enough for me, especially since some of the new laptops that will carry them look pretty slick (and the highest end GPUs will come in the same old 5 models we've been using now for some time). Also, I just need something more portable...

 

Can't wait for a review of the 100W Kepler GTX 870M on a thin & light laptop.
If the results are great(Good heat & noise management), I'm so going to want a 100W 20nm Maxwell on a thin & light laptop by the end of the year.
It's going to be roughly 40% faster than the GTX 880M!

 

I have a few days before I receive my new machine. Then a few more before it will be ready to put it into service. Plenty of time to source these parts for a PSU upgrade.

Thanks for your input!

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

 

There is a short review of the new Razor Blade running the GTX 870M.

Linkage
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2107...pro-laptops-still-slim-more-supercharged.html

" Battlefield 4 runs around 35 frames per second on Ultra settings at 1920-by-1080."

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

 

This will make a great sig, if you're wrong.

 

I am curious how far is a 880M from a desktop r290 (r290 seems to be around 70% faster?) and if a high end 20mm mobile Maxwell could match it in your guys opinions?

 

Yes, I mentioned this early this week, and I just cannot see the logic in Nvidia coming out with an 880m release into the market, and then come out with a 20nm 990m release in July. That simply doesn't make any kind of financial sense for them to do so.
Despite all the conjecture and wishful thinking on this from some here, it's just not going to happen. We all would LOVE to see the 20nm 990m sooner than later, but the reality is, Nvidia will more than likely release this, I strongly believe, a year from now in Spring of 2015 and no sooner.
________________________________________________________

 

For real.. Unless they just lost their marbles. I think they should have called them 775M and 785M respectively if they planned on replacing them. They did just release two flavors of 860M though. So they are doing all sorts of nonsensical shizz on this one. Who knows we may yet see Maxwell 870 and 880 before long..

20nm you're most likely correct.. Probably late 2014 at best.

 

That is going to be burning hot or very noisy, because there is no way to manage 100W GPU + 45W processor in a thin 14" body. If you also want an enjoyable 14" gaming laptop, than Gigabyte U24F V2 will be the man or other with similar hardware.

 

LOL Female Jack to Male plug hahahahahaha.

 

Yeah, I agree, I've found a high frame rate is so much more enjoyable than just having everything at max settings and jugging along at 30fps.

 

But you wouldn`t put that in your sig if I was right now would you...?
Funny how humans pretty much always concentrate on the negative things.

It does make perfect sense financial wise.
And it is business as usual for Nvidia.

Lets take this again because people seems to forget or doesnt know:
March 2012: Low end Kepler announced. High end Fermi rebrands GTX 675M and GTX 670M announced.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5697/nvidias-geforce-600m-series-keplers-and-fermis-and-die-shrinks-oh-my/2

June 2012: GTX 680M announced. Kepler.
Nvidia Announces GeForce GTX 680M, Unveils Obtuse Product SKUs - HotHardware

March 2014:
Low end Maxwell announced. High end Kepler rebrands GTX 870M and GTX 880M announced.

Rebrands get a couple of months alone before they are replaced by the 2nd generation Maxwell.
Computex 2014 is when we will see notebooks running 2nd generation Maxwell.

 

I suppose the difference this time around though is that the 880M is not just a simple rebrand of the 780M, it's an overclocked version of the 780M. The 675M on the other hand was literally just a renamed 580M with the exact same specs & no performance advantage, so people were really after and expecting that 680M. NVidia have given us a little drip feed increase in performance with the 880M, so I can see them justifying that to keep the market happy for a while. So, I don't think it's a like for like situation when you compare 580M/675M vs 780M/880M.

 

Now lets call it what it is.
GTX 880M is a GTX 780M. People with GTX 780M have no reason to upgrade. Many with GTX 680M will not jump on it because a GTX 680M OC`d vs a GTX 880M, the difference is maybe 15%. No sales for Nvidia from those people. GTX 670M was slightly overclocked GTX 570M. GTX 675M was a GTX 580M rebadge.

History repeats itself. I dont understand how people think a 2 year old rebadged GTX 680M (870M, worse than 680M) or a 1 year old 150Mhz higher clocked GTX 780M is here to stay. This is nothing but an attempt from Nvidia to sell out GK104 inventory while the prep up Maxwell launch. You will notice that GTX 860M, GTX 870M and GTX 880M are all GK104.

Coincidence? No I dont think so. It is business as usual.

 

Yes, 680M owners would be foolish to 'upgrade' to an 880M. I can see that 680M owners might be getting itchy feet for a worthwhile upgrade, now that it's been what nearly 2 yrs. But, the situation you brought up as a comparison, 580M/675M vs 780M/880M, is not the same situation, even the nomenclature reflects that: they jumped straight to the 800 series and called that card the flagship by naming it the 8 80M. Just can't see them replacing that chip with a higher performance chip for at least quite a few months, hence me thinking must be the end of the year for a replacement. Like hfm said in post #977, they should have called the 880M a 785M if they were thinking about bringing out a replacement in the near future that was going to be showing a significant performance advantage.

 

Hello MX
Bet they liked that prefix after the 670MX and 675MX.

I feel confident that 6 months after 20nm mass production started is when we will see the real deal.
But we will see Robbo

 

Yes, they just sell GK104 inventory. Faster they sell - more gains they get... but also faster they start selling Maxwell. Nobody really think that they will tell OEMs to wait till they build MORE chips of older architecture if there will be no left, right? So lets wait. Even though I am not going to buy expensive machine those 8XXm update will lower prices on already selling laptops I believe.

 

Haha, yes, we will see! Although, the MX prefix doesn't necessarily mean that much more performance. The 675MX in it's stock form is not that much faster than the 675M (only about 25% in 3DMark11, and less so in games). So, I doubt that the 880MX that you talk about (if that card will even exist at all) would be anymore than maybe 30% faster than the 880M, but I imagine the overclocking potential would be exciting!

 

880m = kepler
880mx = 20nm maxwell.

 

Lets not forget back when 680m was announced AMD had a strong and competitive lineup, more so 7970m was crushing 675m, Nvidia had too release something to counter AMD, this doesn't seem to be the case this time around, AMD has yet to show what its Crystal series is capable of, lack of competition means Nvidia can pretty much do as it pleases .
680m might have been an announced in June but how long did it take to reach laptops? quite a while if I remember correctly, and they quite literally trickled in and where in short supply for months .
My bet is we won't see any thing under 28nm before fall, I am an optimist ^^ .

 

Yep, interesting thing is that all rebadges this round is GK104. No other. 14 GPUs use GK104 chips, you can bet they have a lot they want to get rid of.
Production of the rest, GK106 is most likely very small. Not just because they hopefully are producing 20nm Maxwell`s, but also because the interest have dropped since most have bought their GPU long time go. More reasons to get Maxwell out to the public soon as possible I say. Nvidia have already replaced GK107 with GM107.

+30%? You are crazy man. Why are you so sceptical all of a sudden?
GTX 860M is beating GTX 760M by 40%. Both on 28nm. Why should 20nm be worse?

I expect no less than +50% with 20nm. Throw in Unified Memory and maybe that rumored ARM, we have a party going on.

Well AMD doesn`t have to be the leader all the time. Nvidia can lead sometimes too (I hope).
After all, AMD is pretty much non existent in notebooks anyway, so it almost look like Nvidia is doing their own thing.
Clevo started selling their notebooks with 680M in June, MSI mid July. Cant recall if there was short supply or not though

 

Not sceptical about Maxwell and 20nm as an architecture and the performance it can deliver, I'm very very optimistic about it's potential, just don't think they will release any show stopping replacements to the 880M before right at the end of this year. Loads of awesome potential in Maxwell, let alone after a die shrink to 20nm!

 

Thanks.
But more interested to see the heat management.

We will just wait and see how the Razer Blade handle it.

Not interested with the GTX 860M at the moment.
It's a great GPU for a performance per watt no doubt. But would like to see more on the performance upgrade over the GTX 765M, especially coz it's Maxwell.
However, would love to see for fun how the GTX 860M handle OC though.

 

What Robbo99999 tried to explain was that Cloudfire's comparision between the 800m and 600m series was not completely matching, because 2012 670m and 675m came into the market, but no 680m! But as we know the nomenclature, it was alomost 100% SURE, that a 680m MUST come. And because this place was unfilled, when 670/675m were released, nvidia was in rush to bring the 680m. In addition to that Nvidia was under pressure because of AMD's strong competitor 7970m.

But this year the case is a little bit different from that. Nvidia already launched the WHOLE portfolio, including 880m, which is quite disappointing, but that's not the topic.
So while this time there is no place unfilled in nvidia's range like the missing 680m at spring 2012, Nvidia doesn't have to hurry up that much.

So the matching comparison would be between 670/675m --> 670/675m x and today.
But as Cloudfire posted himself, the 670mx and 675mx didn't launch before october, if i remember correctly?
So if 2012 cycle repeats this year, then we would at least face fall 2014 for the 870/880mx.

Although I am still not too sure about the 870m only being kepler regarding this gpu coming to thin laptops like razer blade, msi gs60 and gigabyte p35!
Why souldn't there come a 870m maxwell as well it was done with 860m?
As my previous posted...

still sounds to me, the 870m could be maxwell, that also would be the most plausible answer to the question, why manufacturers now can bring such powerful gpus into such small laptops.
And last but not least did a user here post a video about Linus techtips, where the 870m was mentioned as maxwell version, too.

 

I've been saying that since Razer announced their new Blade 14. There's no way this can be the GK104 we have grown to love now loathe, unless they really managed to get heat under control, but 880m hasn't shown any sign the TDP has improved a whole lot. I mean it could be an embedded 28nm Maxwell for these thin and lights. Why not?

 

It is an interesting point made here by Robbo. Would NVIDIA release a 880MX and totally throw the entire 800M series performance scale into disarray? Hear me out;

So we know this 880MX is gonna be theoretically up to twice as powerful as 880M. That's a given when you have 20nm for 50% die savings + Maxwell that is 50% more efficient. Wouldn't it be kinda weird though to have such a monstrous high end chip followed by the Maxwell 860M/850M, which will look absolutely pathetic in comparison. Would they want such a large performance scale in their 800M nonclementure? I suppose they could; 1) make a 20nm 860MX/850MX to maintain the smooth performance curve up the 800M range or 2) 880MX will be actually be named 980M (and the whole 20nm becomes the 900M series) or 3) purposely cripple the 880MX to offer 'only' around 20-30% more than 880M. Unfortunately that last one seems most likely to me if it's a summer launch. The longer they wait, the more likely option 2 seems though. I sure would love a 880MX that's 100% more powerful than the 880M, but a 'MX' card has never been that much more powerful than it's predecessor - that has always traditionally been saved for a new generation, a new series of GPUs.

I guess my conclusions are;

- If it's ridiculously more powerful than a 880M - up to 100% more powerful - then I can only see it being called a 980M.
- If it's 'only' 20-30% more than the 880M then I can see it being called a 880MX, with a 20nm 860MX and 850MX released along with it (and the 870MX).

I don't know, just a thought experiment of mine. What do you folks think?

 

Borrowing post from GenTechPC on the supposed to be hot GTX 860M Kepler on a thin and light laptop (MSI GS60) :

Not bad I must say.
GTX 870M Kepler won't really be that far off from GTX 860M Kepler.
So yeah, I am convinced about the GTX 870M Kepler.

 

Eh? Not far off from 860m?

860m Kepler is more or less same TDP as 765m, about 60W. Not 85-90W minimum of 870m.

Call me a skeptic but I'll hold out for some actual results before I would even consider buying one of these.

 

EVGA - Articles - EVGA GeForce GTX 780 6GB Step-Up Coming Soon! I will be short on this, to avoid it being a historical documentary length passage; if u want me to explain the info below in more details, feel free to PM me.

U wanted more of official Maxwell confirmation, here it is, although in indirect form but bear with me:
GTX 780 and 780 Ti announced with 6GB on board.

EVGA employee has confirmed 780 6GB to be 50$ more, same should apply to TI version. Meanwhile, from the previous generations, cards with double memory have a cost of 150$more.

What that means: There should be a price drop across the whole 700 series happening soon(~summer time) and most important, Nvidia has let 700 off to a free ride, which only happens there is something new upon us.

Ladies and gens: Let me present you the Gefore GTX 790 KEPMAX Experience the best of both world in an unveiled, mind blowing performance card, designed for series purposes :laugh:

On topic: I can provide the background evidence to what have written via PM in order to avoid this post being too long to read. I just summarized wuts happening, and guys, it really start to come all together. Especially, with 6GB models, it cant get more obvious at this point in time...

 

I mean, if you look at the spec of the GTX 765M and GTX 860M Kepler.

GTX 860M
1152 cores - at 915MHz (Boost)
Memory - 1250MHz 128 Bit (80.0GB/s)

GTX 765M
768 cores - at 863MHz (Boost)
Memory - 1002MHz 128 Bit (64.1GB/s)

Are you sure that the TDP will be more or less the same?

 

I'm with you on this one. There's neither precedent nor financial sense in releasing 990m so soon after the release of 880m (especially since the process for Kepler is just becoming mature, where the real profits exist). I am, however, optimistic for a late Q3/early Q4 release: I think stringing Kepler out as the high end until 2015 is too long.

That doesn't mean 20nm won't be ready by summer (and likely why were hearing chatter now), just that volume won't rev up and the cards won't reach the channel until later.

 

Hmmmmmmmm

MSI GS60 Ghost Gaming Ultrabook with 3K Display, Next-Gen NVIDIA GPU Launches