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    New details about Nvidia`s Maxwell

    Discussion in 'Gaming (Software and Graphics Cards)' started by Cloudfire, Feb 12, 2014.

  1. sasuke256

    sasuke256 Notebook Deity

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    Expect 128bit interface with ddr3 for the 840M..
    I'm wondering if the overclock will stay locked @ max +135mhz for the core..
    The gtx 860m will most likely be equal to a gtx 750 ti with slightly lower clocks (5300 perf 3dmark 11)
    With the +135 oc i think we can acheive max 6k which is way more than the 4.8k of a gtx 765m oc..
     
  2. octiceps

    octiceps Nimrod

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    Probably locked at +135 MHz core on the stock vBIOS just like desktop GTX 750 and 750 Ti.
     
  3. marcos669

    marcos669 Notebook Evangelist

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    No, the difference is bigger, about 50-60% (there is a review in Hardware & Computer - Nachrichten bei HT4U.net). And you have to consider that 7750 is a weaker card than the GM107 ones, with the gm107 ones the diference could be 70%, and that is a lot
     
  4. Meaker@Sager

    Meaker@Sager Company Representative

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    The desktop cards are locked to +135mhz so I doubt mobile will be more.
     
  5. Cloudfire

    Cloudfire (Really odd person)

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    Well TechPowerUp have jumped on the same boat as us. The TDP is still very wrong though. Around 40-45W is more correct. If GTX 860M is launching with these clocks, we are looking at performance pretty close to the GTX 680M. Depends on how good the L2 cache is with games :)

    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 860M | techPowerUp GPU Database
     
  6. sasuke256

    sasuke256 Notebook Deity

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    ASUS said that they will start to ship the 860M by the end of march, we got to wait my friends..winter is not coming soon after all ..
     
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  7. Cloudfire

    Cloudfire (Really odd person)

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    Might actually be correct. After all, the first mobile Keplers was revealed March 22nd but we got to see them at CeBit early March. Could happen with Maxwell too :)
     
  8. sasuke256

    sasuke256 Notebook Deity

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    the clocks you posted are 750 ti desktop clocks, is techpowerup precise and trustful about these clocks ?
    wait and see..
    if the clocks are confirmed, we got a P6.4k 3dm11 card when OC :D with 60W TDP more or less :D
     
  9. Cloudfire

    Cloudfire (Really odd person)

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    GTX 750 Ti have a TDP of 60W with those clocks. GTX 860M will run lower core voltage, plus the VRAM will most likely be mobile chips running lower voltage than the desktop VRAM, all this resulting in lower total TDP.
     
  10. sasuke256

    sasuke256 Notebook Deity

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    excuse me for the question (dummy question) but if they lower the voltage, it wont run @ the same core clock then right ?
     
  11. Cloudfire

    Cloudfire (Really odd person)

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    You might need to increase voltage slightly but nowhere near the voltage you find on the desktop version.

    To give you an idea:

    GTX 670: 1.175V (Running clocks up to 980MHz)
    GTX 680M with unlocked Vbios: 1.073V (Running clocks over 1GHz)

    Both GTX 670 and GTX 680M is identical but TDP difference (170W vs around 100W) is huge ;)
     
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  12. Killerinstinct

    Killerinstinct Notebook Evangelist

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    Its just amazing how much better maxwell is at 28nm can't wait to see 20mn :) , also want to see how much you can overclock the gtx 860M with unlocked vbios.

    Sent from my LG-D800 using Tapatalk
     
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  13. Vaio Z Power

    Vaio Z Power Notebook Consultant

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    Is confirmed 20nm for this year?
     
  14. Robbo99999

    Robbo99999 Notebook Prophet

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    Who knows, I thought it was going to be the end of this year for 20nm Maxwell, but given that they're getting twice the performance per Watt of Kepler with Maxwell on 28nm, then I don't see why they need to shrink down to the 20nm, because I don't think competition from AMD will be very heavy. So, I think they'll just shrink down to 20nm when it becomes cheaper to use that process rather than 28nm, which I think is likely to delay the adoption of 20nm by NVidia. At the moment, I would guesstimate that they won't shrink to 20nm until sometime in 2015, simply because they can get plenty of performance with 28nm Maxwell.

    (Does anyone know when AMD are likely to shrink to 20nm, and does anybody know anything about their next architecture, - the desktop 290x wasn't that much different to the 7970 in terms of architecture(?) - maybe the 290x architecture will end up in mobile? Don't know much about AMD's plans!)
     
  15. SinOfLiberty

    SinOfLiberty Notebook Evangelist

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    Desktop 800 series, due in May/June will be 20nm. Yes, it is 99% confirmed.

    If u want/ need smth official, u have to wait till a day before new cards are released,
     
  16. ChowMeow

    ChowMeow Notebook Consultant

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    What about 20nm mobile maxwell?

    Sent from my SGH-T959V using Tapatalk 2
     
  17. Cloudfire

    Cloudfire (Really odd person)

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    Listen to SinofLiberty guys:

    28nm Maxwell is ONLY for the low end Maxwell:
    GM107 and GM108.
    GTX 750 Ti is using a FULL GM107. There is no other GPUs that can be made from that chip.
    GM107 and GM108 is 1st generation Maxwell. Look at this slide, notice they call it "1st generation Maxwell". Why do they only write +35% specifically for 1st generation Maxwell? Because 20nm will obviously bring better benefits than that.

    GM206, GM204 and GM200 is 2nd generation Maxwell. That have already been confirmed by Nvidia drivers. These are all 20nm.
    Those are the big boys of Maxwell. GM206 is midrange. GM204 is high end. GM200 will be Nvidia`s milking cow 1 year after GM204 had the market alone.

    We know that GT 840M is GM108. We know that GTX 850M and GTX 860M is GM107. Confirmed by GPU-z update log and AIDA64 update log.
    That means the rest of mobile Maxwell`s will be based on 2nd generation Maxwell. 20nm Maxwell.

    GTX 680M was GK104. Same will be applied to Maxwell. GTX 880MX will be GM204.


    http://www.techpowerup.com/197821/gm107-features-128-cuda-cores-per-streaming-multiprocessor.html
     
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  18. ThePerfectStorm

    ThePerfectStorm Notebook Deity

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    I pray that he is right - I would HATE to have to wait till Oct/Nov/Dec to buy a laptop with 20nm Maxwell. Hope the 880MX releases in Jul/Aug at the latest.
     
  19. J.Dre

    J.Dre Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Q3 2014 sounds about right. I'm hoping for the end of Q2, like last year when Alienware launched their new lineup at CES.

    Want to know what I think they're doing? I think they're pushing this 28nm stuff on low-end GPU's to really dominate that budget gaming market while postponing the 20nm for high-end GPU's, with even more performance behind them, until the end of this year. As Rob said above, there's nothing for NVIDIA to worry about at this point. They just need to take their time and release the kraken. Mantle cannot compete with Maxwell, period.
     
  20. octiceps

    octiceps Nimrod

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    AMD's new GPU µarch is called Mantle? That's news to me. :confused:
     
  21. J.Dre

    J.Dre Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    In terms of performance...

    Why must you always do that? It's annoying.
     
  22. octiceps

    octiceps Nimrod

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    Mantle is a bit of extra performance boost which Nvidia GPU's don't have. Why don't you make the actual valid comparison when AMD's next generation of GPU's get released?

    Do what, call out people for being silly?
     
  23. ThePerfectStorm

    ThePerfectStorm Notebook Deity

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    Maybe let AMD actually make a new generation of mobile chips, and then we'll compare them? Right now AMD is not in picture in terms of 20nm, they started rebadging instead of moving forward on the mobile side and went HD 7000M -> HD 8000M -> Rx M2x0. Let then pull their socks up and actually give us products that are NOT rebadges.
     
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  24. octiceps

    octiceps Nimrod

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    Totally agree. Let AMD actually respond before letting loose the comparisons.
     
  25. Robbo99999

    Robbo99999 Notebook Prophet

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    I think the point J.Dre is making is a valid one. People compare performance between NVidia and AMD at the time they buy a GPU, and Mantle is the newest way for AMD to increase performance that has been released now, (or soon to be adopted by mobile), and high performance Maxwell is thought to come in a few months. So, it's the best selling points of NVidia and AMD at the moment: Maxwell & Mantle; so, that's why it makes sense to compare them. Sure, AMD might release a new architecture, but when is that going to happen?
     
  26. ThePerfectStorm

    ThePerfectStorm Notebook Deity

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    Exactly this. We have no idea when AMD is going to give us a new architecture. nVidia is well ahead of the curve right now, and AMD has a hell of a lot of catching up to do.
     
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  27. James D

    James D Notebook Prophet

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    My thoughts about this.

    1. Each year we get +15-30% of performance increase in each gpu category.
    2. I hear many "exciting news" but I know that nothing gonna be changed - same 15-30%. Period.
    3. All those super exciting news about incoming are prolonged in time on purpose by Nvidia so at the end of a day/year all we get is the same "just good news". If you would tell somebody in 2010 about incoming performance of 2012 GPUs you would get the same exciting panic as you get now.

    Seriously. For now I see that it is even possible that onboard 860M GPUs are going to be with DDR3 vRAM. Nothing good at all. Even more, I read speculatings (may be fake) that all onboard 860Ms may be rebranded Kepler. Nothing good either.
    Anyway, I am excited... but just because I know that i 1 year perhaps I will buy average laptop (1100$) with 860m which will be much better than my 660M.
    As for why people feel hilarious I believe because they are going to get top-end mobile GPU on Maxwell ad get super boost. But how big percentage of people do buy the notebook with such top GPUs? And if so when you gonna get it?
     
  28. Amal77

    Amal77 Notebook Deity

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    But..

    Aida mentioning :
    - GPU information for nVIDIA GeForce GTX 860M (GM107M)

    The new MSI GE60 mentioning :
    - NVIDIA GeForce GTX 860M - 2 GB GDDR5 SDRAM
     
  29. 3g6

    3g6 Notebook Enthusiast

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    Hell yeah 860M (GM107M) - 2 GB GDDR5 hope coming soon into MSI GE40 too.

    Just a little reminder, if someone do not understand the power of GM107 yet;

    Crysis 1080p 4X AA gaming
    GTX 480 Vs. GTX 750 Ti
    32.7FPS Vs. 31.9FPS
    257W Vs. 52W
    Avarage
     
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  30. Cloudfire

    Cloudfire (Really odd person)

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    Why don`t you let Nvidia respond to Mantle before letting loose the comparisons you was so eager about in that other thread...

    The only one who is silly here is you with your constant white knighting against anyone who dare to speak negative against AMD. You may own a notebook with GT 650M but I think everyone here knows what camp you truly belong in...

    Here is how Maxwell stand against AMD right now. 50% more efficient than the 2nd most efficient GPU, AMD`s GCN architecture. And no, we are not gonna stop posting information about how amazing Maxwell truly is. Right now AMD have a ton of work to catch up with Nvidia. Thats the fact. They may or may not catch up with Maxwell, or even surpass it, we don`t know that yet. Heck we haven`t even heard about any architecture that they plan to release. Hawaii was their recent and it bleaks in comparison with Maxwell. In the meantime we are not gonna stop posting information that shows how efficient Maxwell is against any other GPUs out there, even if it puts AMD in a "bad light".

    Mantle will not boost low (neglible anyway) end GPUs with high end mobile i7s. Mantle improve CPU bottleneck by reducing overhead in scenarios where you use a weaker CPU than the GPU configuration. You know that.

    Deal with it

     
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  31. SinOfLiberty

    SinOfLiberty Notebook Evangelist

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    Successor to GK 104(high end too) was supposed to come in February. aka, based on 28nm

    Now, when it is not the case, we(Desktop users)might expect a proper replacement (gk 104 AND GK 110 successor) both in 800 series. Similar to Fermi.

    It is a complete LIMBO when Mobile launch will be happening. Late June/mid July is only for Desktop cards. May should be bringing a lot of leaks tho.
     
  32. Any_Key

    Any_Key Notebook Evangelist

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    So is the general consensus now that 840M, 850M, 860M GM 28nm, and 870M and 880M GK 28nm, then towards the end of the year a 870M, 880M get a GM 20nm. Will the GM 28nm get the 20nm treatment or does it look like that will happen with the 900 series next year?
     
  33. ChowMeow

    ChowMeow Notebook Consultant

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    860mx?

    Sent from my SGH-T959V using Tapatalk 2
     
  34. Cloudfire

    Cloudfire (Really odd person)

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    Where do you get this information from? No site have said GK104 successor would be 28nm. Do you even know its possible to make high end Maxwell with 28nm?
    And where have you heard about June as release? I`d love to see 20nm by June :)

    Lets go back to 2012: GTX 675M was announced May 2012. It was a Fermi rebrand. GTX 580M. June 2012, GTX 680M, Kepler, was announced.
    March 2014: GTX 880M is announced. It is a Kepler rebrand. GTX 780M. Why not, GTX 880MX, Maxwell, in June this time too? Me thinks that will happen



    Good summary. :)
    If low end (GM108 and GM107) will be remade in 20nm? Who knows. They might even make brand new chips for those low end models when 20nm is rolling out. Or they just scale exisiting 28nm chips down with 20nm. Or they don`t have to do anything since 28nm is working perfectly for those chips anyway.

    Another driver that list many 800M cards.
    Aorus mobile driver 332.38 - News - LaptopVideo2Go Forums

    Just release the freaking cards already :(
     
  35. Machu1299

    Machu1299 Notebook Enthusiast

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    I'll need a laptop by sometime in June, and I'm most probably going to get the Lenovo Y50, but it sounds like it will only have the 860M (which don't get me wrong, it's looking to be a great card) but it will be 28nm and not 20nm. I would want it to be as powerful as I could get it, but I just can't wait till August or September. I don't know if I would be able to sell it or send it back because my patents are getting it for me and I doubt they would let me do that. What should I do?
     
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  36. Cloudfire

    Cloudfire (Really odd person)

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    It depends what you want and what you want to pay.

    Gaming notebooks with GTX 680M/780M is the best choice, but they cost a pretty penny.
    Y50 is more of a designer notebook am I right? I also hear it get a 4K display which is super nice. If you can SLI two GTX 860M, you will have a pretty powerful notebook thats for sure. GTX 860M in itself will probably be somewhere around GTX 770M which is a great gaming card. But will be much cooler. It can pretty much play any game you want, many on very high settings too :)

    Also, if you can wait until June, there might be better Maxwell cards releasing.
     
  37. J.Dre

    J.Dre Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Looks like Q3 2014 for 20nm Maxwell (e.g. 880M X). Still unconfirmed, though. The 880M is definitely a re-branded 780M with more vRAM - we know that for sure. As for the 900 series cards, it's way too early to even speculate on those. Maxwell 20nm is supposed to be 100%+ performance boost over Kepler. So, we'll have to wait and see what happens... I'm sure more news will be leaked soon (April, May~).
     
  38. Machu1299

    Machu1299 Notebook Enthusiast

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    The Y50 is labeled as a gaming laptop, and the 4K resolution is optional. But I'll be using it for school, so I need a laptop that is thin and Light and powerful and has a touch screen. I would love a convertible, but I don't think I'll find one with discrete gtx graphics. It also can absolutely not be more than $1500, but preferably no more than $1200-1300.
     
  39. gust0007750

    gust0007750 Notebook Consultant

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    I hate to disappoint cloudfire but was it not said that the GM 107 GTX 750ti can not be operated in SLI and therefore the same will go for the mobile version "GTX 860" and besides very few resellers SLI an entry level card,unless the laptop is the thin compact 14 inch type like razer or specifically Aorus x7 but I think it is a very ambitious and brilliant idea because SLI's main bottle neck is TDP, and heat, tell me what you think and which notebooks to look out for that may include Dual 860s
     
  40. octiceps

    octiceps Nimrod

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    Was gonna argue but then realized that I give exactly zero cares about anything you say plus arguing on the Internet is just stupid. You're the repeat offender Internet troll/fanboi type and have been banned from more forums than I've ever signed up for so not worth my breath. Have fun on my Ignore List. "Another One Bites the Dust!"
     
  41. Amal77

    Amal77 Notebook Deity

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    If I'm buying a new laptop in a couple of months and can wait a couple months more, I might not go with GTX 860M.
    It is a good card no doubt, but can be better especially with the low TDP.

    I'm guessing that maybe the GTX 860M will be the highest Maxwell mobile card for 800 series.
    They might go straight to 900 series mobile card, and will be based on the new 800 series desktop Maxwell.
     
  42. hfm

    hfm Notebook Prophet

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    Mantle requires Dev houses to support it (I'm all for it! Don't get me wrong), nvidia's new architecture gives gains and power efficiency just by virtue of existing without any outside support. The comparison is flawed.
     
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  43. ChowMeow

    ChowMeow Notebook Consultant

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    This is a notebook forum.
    There's more drama to be found here than on tnt.
     
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  44. sasuke256

    sasuke256 Notebook Deity

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    where are leaks, i'm not the patient type of persons, i'm curious about the G750JM and the Clevo W230SS, and especially and unlocked bios of the maxwell 860M ;) it will reach P7k 3dm11 easely with some oc @ stock voltage :)
     
  45. Robbo99999

    Robbo99999 Notebook Prophet

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    Yeah, it's OK, people can compare anything they choose to, whether it's valid or not. But, like I said I do think it's a valid comparison that J.Dre made, and I was supporting that. I did just now try & type out some more explaining the point I was making, but I just realised I made the point as best I can in my post that you quoted, so not much point me adding anymore to it.
     
  46. n=1

    n=1 YEAH SCIENCE!

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    This thread reminds me that I badly need a desktop rig if I want to chase the latest and greatest...
     
  47. Cloudfire

    Cloudfire (Really odd person)

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    Im not sure but I don`t think the chip does decide wether the card can SLI or not. The PCB on the GTX 750 Ti does not have a SLI connector. There are many OEMs GTX 750 Ti models without SLI support, and I think it is because Nvidia want a reference design regarding that on all models. MXM cards with the GM107 chip we use with our notebooks might have that SLI connector.
     
  48. SinOfLiberty

    SinOfLiberty Notebook Evangelist

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    Welp, there are no leaks open to public yet. No one would reveal 800 series prior to 790, due in march.

    I talked about desktop cards in my previous post. I referred to mobile as limbo.

    So, u do not believe in 800 20nm this June/july?!

    Are u CloudFire on overcklock .net too?
     
  49. Cloudfire

    Cloudfire (Really odd person)

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    Oh I do hope and believe 20nm is here by the summer :)
    Anything you would like to share about 800 series you know?

    I just got new information. :)

    March 12th is when NDA ends about 800M series from Nvidia.
    Expect notebook announcements after that date as well as reviews.

    GTX 860M is about 15% faster than GTX 765M, almost on par with GTX 770M.
    GTX 850M will have DDR3 memory but will be a good deal faster than GTX 760M.

    GT 840M will be have 64bit memory bus. Yikes.
    GT 845M will be a better choice because it will have 128bit memory bus. GT 845M will be a little faster than GT 750M
     
  50. Robbo99999

    Robbo99999 Notebook Prophet

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